Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[Sobolev Space]

How would you feel about an SBF lynch today?

[Eddie Cane]

I didn't quote everything. but anyways, his iso is just trolling and has extremely minimal content. there is very little content here and a lot of fence sitting: 222 is just shade, more importantly, I hate 229. he says he doesn't see it coming from scum and then proceeds to call it a null read. you literally just said it doesn't come from scum, so why would you not at least town lean him? there's just so little content and so much joking in your iso. I disagree with the notion your play is earnest; you're a competent enough player and I dislike you posting enough to stay "active" while not coming out with any actual content.

I am going to continually fight you on an SS lynch and no one else agrees with you. This is a vanity lynch that you're not gonna get. Do something else.

Don't be sure. why can't ss be lynched? what makes them so townie for you? or sell me on another scum read. Otherwise, my vote stays where it is and I explore others to join.

[borkjerfkin]

if i flash wagon anyone it's probably gonna be TTTT; SBF doesn't really look overtly scummy to me, just has some points i don't really get

[borkjerfkin]

why can't ss be lynched? what makes them so townie for you?

i've talked about SS a decent amount in my ISO, but if you want to rehash it it's probably gonna have to be later tonight

[Sobolev Space]

I don't know. I want to see SBF's response to our questions about her Eddie read before making a full judgement, but I have a moderate scumread on her and think that lynch would do the least damage to town.

[Sobolev Space]

At this point my vote is probably going to stay between Lowell and SBF for the remainder of the day.

[Eddie Cane]

why can't ss be lynched? what makes them so townie for you?

i've talked about SS a decent amount in my ISO, but if you want to rehash it it's probably gonna have to be later tonight

Yea you have. I want a put together town sandwich hough, not just crumbs.

[Eddie Cane]

if i flash wagon anyone it's probably gonna be TTTT; SBF doesn't really look overtly scummy to me, just has some points i don't really get

what about tttt makes you want to flashwagon him?

[borkjerfkin]

what about tttt makes you want to flashwagon him?

Because all he's done is provide some extremely hardline reads for the point in the game that he gave them (never lynch x) and when pressed upon it has provided only the most cursory of reasoning (i liked x post with no commentary) and has shown no indication that he's thinking critically about the game in any fashion; i've also asked for explanations for people townreading him and (excepting GL) have gotten fuckall.

If you've got any further divination on that front i am all ears

but I am also

V/LA

until sunday afternoon or so (will be in milwaukee tomorrow and likely unable to post at all) - might have more time tonight

[Fro99er]

prodge

i'll try to post tonight, might be tomorrow. I work in NASCAR analytics so this weekend is our super bowl.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm still pretty sold on eddie town; he just seems incredibly honest in his process right now (mostly @frogger @bella, who have historically opposed that read)

like 331 he could just take what I gave and been fine with it instead of continuing to prod about it, and i don't think he's doing it to read me (or fake reading me if he's scum) - i think he really does give a fuck about sorting SS

@eddie i'll try to do my best to articulate my SS read soon but it's not my highest priority right now

[SweetBlueFlowers]

@SBF: more specifically, what changed between 200 and now, considering I think Eddie's trajectory on you has not changed one iota since then and you don't seem to be townreading him for any other reason

Cane's opening was, as I see it, a reaction test. Scum love easy targets, and giving one to them is a very effective way to hunt.

What was awkward about them?

The tone. What else?

And are you calling it "LAMIST" literally just because I said "I'm town this time"? Because that's an

extreeeemely

weak case for LAMIST, and it looks to me like you just wanted to put the "scummy buzzword" in.

8 and 36 are both "me? scum? no way!", and your attempt to deflect this by calling the use of an abbreviation scummy is in fact a maneuver commonly used by scum to discredit those who bring cases against them. Buzzwords are actually only scummy when they're used in absence of a real argument, not as a way to succintly represent an argument, and in either case it isn't the word itself that is the issue.

Where did I even act like it was an "authentic scumread"? I saw someone lurking and not playing the game and I sheeped a townlean and voted them. I didn't write up a bunch of buzzwords and crap about how I thought you were scum.

Thank you for proving my point. I am your sole scum read in 169 and yet there was clearly no sincerity behind it. Now you are attempting to distance yourself from your prior stance while casting suspicion on my slot for unrelated content, also known as backpedalling and shading.

Like, this is something where you're describing my play but not actually pointing to why that makes me scum.

I am actually describing the things that I find scum motivated, contraposed with what I would find Town motivated. Your content has no significant Town motivation that I can detect. Your content is largely devoid of game-advancing material and is full of material that I find ultimately purposeless and distracting.

I feel this is the most disingenuous point of all. All of my "back-seat theorizing" and "hypothesis about what I would do as Y alignment" is entirely because people kept repeatedly pressing me on

how I had attempted to sort TTTT

. I'm answering multiple questions from eddie/bork/bella in those posts to explain my thought process and here you're pretending like I'm not doing anything else in between. I think anyone who was looking at my ISO with genuine intentions would see that I am making efforts to sort and probe people - take for example, my vote on you - and the way you're just handwaving a shitty summary of my play here reads extremely uncharitable to me.

Your way of justifying your reads has been so opaque and theoretical that the only way to find fault with them is by attacking their logic, which would be playing to your game by getting caught up in tortuous argumentation with no real end-point, and they are entirely devoid of actual serious comment on play in THIS game. They are superficial. Your vote on me was, as you have said, a sheep of your townlean. You did not back it up with anything, as Cane did. Your vote isn't even on me anymore.

VOTE: Lowell

I don't think town!Lowell would call me "opportunistic" here. It's simply not a meaningful or accurate description of my play, especially when the game is still early/halfway through D1, so I'm having a hard time seeing where he could be honestly coming from with that perspective.

I called you opportunistic, albeit without using the actual word, and you stated that my description of your play was essentially accurate ("you're describing my play"), if mistaken in the resulting conclusions. You have caught yourself in a trap. Despite finding fault with every part of my case against you and calling me scummy, you are now voting the slot that was previously a townlean over the slot that was previously a scumread. Voting Lowell here is a typical scum tactic, where you try to shed the negative attention on your slot onto another slot. You cannot keep your vote on me because by doing so Town's focus remains on our exchange, which is something scum!GL would never want but which town!GL would have no problem with. Again, you display no sincerity in your desire to sort slots.

How would you feel about an SBF lynch today?

If you are Town and believe that I am scum, you should aruge your case, not ask whether people are willing to lynch me.

I don't know. I want to see SBF's response to our questions about her Eddie read before making a full judgement, but I have a moderate scumread on her and think that lynch would do the least damage to town.

At this point my vote is probably going to stay between Lowell and SBF for the remainder of the day.

This is thoroughly anti-town behavior at best, very scummy at worst. They display no real interest in hunting scum or in sorting slots in a genuine way whatsoever.

Agree w/ GL 306 and 307

Please say more. This doesn't come close to cutting it.

I am going to continually fight you on an SS lynch and no one else agrees with you. This is a vanity lynch that you're not gonna get. Do something else.

How are you so certain in your Space read that you would WK them with Day 1 barely under way? I don't believe that Space is a vanity lynch and I would be perfectly willing to wagon the slot.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm still pretty sold on eddie town; he just seems incredibly honest in his process right now (mostly @frogger @bella, who have historically opposed that read)

like 331 he could just take what I gave and been fine with it instead of continuing to prod about it, and i don't think he's doing it to read me (or fake reading me if he's scum) - i think he really does give a fuck about sorting SS

@eddie i'll try to do my best to articulate my SS read soon but it's not my highest priority right now

no rush, still plenty of time.

[Sobolev Space]

@SBF - what is your opinion on Frogger/Bella?

If you could know with 100% certainty that I was town who, aside from GL, would you think was scum?

[Sobolev Space]

Cane's opening was, as I see it, a reaction test. Scum love easy targets, and giving one to them is a very effective way to hunt.

This is a good point.

[TTTT]

Yes it is

[borkjerfkin]

How are you so certain in your Space read that you would WK them with Day 1 barely under way? I don't believe that Space is a vanity lynch and I would be perfectly willing to wagon the slot.

It might be barely underway for you, but I've been doing this for almost a week continually now and I like to think I have a good bead on at least a few slots.

I probably misspoke with the vanity lynch thing and retract it -- I see right now probably you, eddie, GL willing to vote them.

anyway the ss read for you and eddie - the first thing that pinged town as I mentioned was the opening post again GL, which i think you all agree with so i'm moving on

I thought the post about me (109, 112) was a fine "this perspective seems off" type of read even if she didn't understand what i was actually saying at the time

The manner in which she is meta-ing frogger is correct and isn't being used to assert a conclusion she wants to push -- if you go looking for meta, and see different behavior from this game or see the same type of behavior in all games, i think a null read is the right conclusion to come to there.

has not blindly bloc'ed with me -- 134 i think shows she's continually questioning whether or not I am, as you say, WKing her (i generally see this used as a pejorative description of scum behavior) or i genuinely think she is town

the sheer number of times either she or I have been about to post the exact same thing as each other leads me to believe we're thinking about the game in similar ways and hitting the same "this makes no sense / feels weird to me" type of notes. I think a scum player would have a hard time accidentally lucking into that.

This is all the things that have occurred to me over the game -- going looking for more I think would be confbiasing. I am willing to hard defend her at this point because between her and Bella (and i'm warming up to both frogger and eddie) I don't see many people who are being that transparent about trying to solve the game, and townhunting is just I think a style that I have to fall back to because it has a high floor -- if i can pick out 3 or 4 true townreads, i have a much smaller chance of fucking up, even if i can't correctly identify scum (and my scumpool is wide enough and volatile enough that i think i have a good chance of guessing wrong D1)

[Sobolev Space]

Nice to see you back TTTT! Any new thoughts?

[borkjerfkin]

I called you opportunistic, albeit without using the actual word, and you stated that my description of your play was essentially accurate ("you're describing my play"), if mistaken in the resulting conclusions. You have caught yourself in a trap. Despite finding fault with every part of my case against you and calling me scummy, you are now voting the slot that was previously a townlean over the slot that was previously a scumread. Voting Lowell here is a typical scum tactic, where you try to shed the negative attention on your slot onto another slot. You cannot keep your vote on me because by doing so Town's focus remains on our exchange, which is something scum!GL would never want but which town!GL would have no problem with. Again, you display no sincerity in your desire to sort slots.

actually really like this paragraph; if GL has sucked today it is because his voting patterns are fucking weird (voting SBF at all when he did, and now this)

@ss: either way no I don't think i'd like to lynch SBF today. what did you think?

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE: part in anticipation of my V/LA part i'm getting cold feet on lowell

[borkjerfkin]

Please say more. This doesn't come close to cutting it.

I'm not sure what you want from me here -- I think lowell was misrepping GL by calling his interaction w/ SS a 'pocket attempt' and I don't find GL placing his vote on a lurker (you) 'opportunistic' when in the same post he's like "let's wagon SBF"

[borkjerfkin]

I think 307 is a much stronger point than 306, FWIW.

[borkjerfkin]

still think TTTT is being fucking cagey for no good reason

[Sobolev Space]

My opinion on SBF's last post? I disagree with almost all of the points but am unsure if it's scum motivated. I want SBF to offer content or interact with more than just me/GL/Eddie. There is some odd stuff in the post (see my 339).

[borkjerfkin]

that is a sentiment you should have just volunteered instead of waiting for me to ask

339 looked like you were agreeing with her and you didn't sound like you had anything else to say about it