Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy (Game OVER)

[mattblackguy]

@mod, replace me. Sorry, leaving the site.

[davesaz]

Prodding ChaosOmega. Seeking replacements for mattblackguy and PimHel.

[-Grey-]

on the coaching theory: I can see it happening. but I don't see a big change on hans ISO:

whether it's scummy or townie, it's all consistent. the frustration, the flailing, it's all there.

also, I'll say if hans had access to daychat, he would have voted Grey much earlier. much earlier. so there's that.

Well Lucca, in a world where Hans is town, I picture QT, ChaosOmega, & one of BTD/PimHel as scum together.

{Grey, Hans}

{LUV}

{chilled, matt}

{BTD6, Pim}

{Riley, Spade}

{Chaos, Lucca}

{Frederick}

This needs to engage more, and he had a very bad sequence of posts that did not get pressured at all. I'd like to see that happen.

VOTE: Frederick

That's a beautiful reads list, isn't it? Only two nulls. On day 1.

It's almost like they built those reads.

They call Fred out for his lack of activity, but give both PimHel & BTD a pass.

And in my experience, hard townreading both members of a blood feud and preaching from the sidelines tends to come from scum because the townreads keep them distanced from the vitriol while the preaching serves to fuel shade others base superficial scumreads on.

I'd have expected Town!QT to bring pressure to bear upon me to end my death tunnel since I was basically troll spamming while I railed against Hans.

Not to mention their behavior around the ChaosOmega slot, who they've been shading all day but now all of a sudden we learn one head reads as town.

So yeah... there's where I am.

[Riley Cake]

379

hey tea guy, what's your concern with riley?

The concern is similar to that which was pointed by Matt, I actually forgot but he too observed something similar. Riley voted Momo by saying that he was mafia or something because apparently mafia take advantage of her play style. I have actually experienced the opposite, mafia tend to benefit from taking on that style because then it becomes difficult to read them.

Also, riley's analysis isn't really something special. The instant switch in her vote for hans felt artificial as well.

THIS POST IS BAD!!!! YA CAN'T SAY I ONLY TOOK ON THIS PLAYSTYLE TO MAKE ME DIFFICULT TO READ COS I DO IT EVERY GAME!!!! ya can't call me mafia just cos ya can't be botheted to put in the effort ta read me

and ya can't just say it's artificial!!! What's so artificialsies about it? HE DID SOMETHING SCUMMY SO I VOTED HIM!!!!

[chilledtea]

lucca, the reason why I am not "intervening" is because I don't have the patience to go around arguing with someone like grey, and instead I spend my efforts into effectively trying to create pressure on my scum reads. When I said grey reminded me of scum RC, I actually didn't think it would be this similar to him.

Why did you change your read on omega anyways?

my read on Omega didn't change at all. you jumping on his wagon does not mean he's town.

multiball.

Well it did. You did say that you felt better about omega after one of his posts.

[chilledtea]

my point on tea is that I don't like posts such as 712 or 716.

he disappear for 200 posts, and when he comes back, he doies only to deliver either inconclusive or fluff statements. he's not interested on furthering the game. he's only interested at staying under the radar. his whole ISO is an one-note tone, and that is asking people about Omega or asking people to vote Omega.

but that's not on a clear way like grey is doing with hans.

he pops in, throw some shots at omega, and pops off.

also quite honestly I wanted to get off Hans/Grey because it was boring me.

That's because I replaced into veebs slot. My ISO is obviously going to be incomplete in comparison to others.

[chilledtea]

379

hey tea guy, what's your concern with riley?

The concern is similar to that which was pointed by Matt, I actually forgot but he too observed something similar. Riley voted Momo by saying that he was mafia or something because apparently mafia take advantage of her play style. I have actually experienced the opposite, mafia tend to benefit from taking on that style because then it becomes difficult to read them.

Also, riley's analysis isn't really something special. The instant switch in her vote for hans felt artificial as well.

THIS POST IS BAD!!!! YA CAN'T SAY I ONLY TOOK ON THIS PLAYSTYLE TO MAKE ME DIFFICULT TO READ COS I DO IT EVERY GAME!!!! ya can't call me mafia just cos ya can't be botheted to put in the effort ta read me

and ya can't just say it's artificial!!! What's so artificialsies about it? HE DID SOMETHING SCUMMY SO I VOTED HIM!!!!

EXCEPT I DID NOT CALL YOU MAFIA I JUST SAID that YOU ARE MORE SCuMMY than TOWNy for posting the way YOU do.
Also doing it every game still makes it difficult to read you and hence either likely to result in your lynch when you are town or likely to get you a free pass when you are scum. Your spiritual ancestor is pretty good at playing as scum because of this.

[chilledtea]

Grey just vote omega seriously. Lucca seems like a probable omega partner looking at the way he is defending him, or at least trying to deflect the wagon from him.

grey, Hans, matt, QT, luv are all most likely town than not, others either are scum or haven't participated much.

[-Grey-]

If you're going to insist on Hans town, my vote will just go to QT.

Already explained why and nobody has convinced me otherwise.

[-Grey-]

Omega would be like, a deadline compromise for me at this point, but we're nowhere near that.

I'd rather push for an active scumread to be lynched right now.

[Quick Transcendence]

my point on tea is that I don't like posts such as 712 or 716.

he disappear for 200 posts, and when he comes back, he doies only to deliver either inconclusive or fluff statements. he's not interested on furthering the game. he's only interested at staying under the radar. his whole ISO is an one-note tone, and that is asking people about Omega or asking people to vote Omega.

but that's not on a clear way like grey is doing with hans.

he pops in, throw some shots at omega, and pops off.

also quite honestly I wanted to get off Hans/Grey because it was boring me.

This looks like a BS read to me.

~Quick

[Riley Cake]

I scum read you because you were trying to get other players to vote on me from the beginning.
As early as #50 you have been calling for my lynch. This caused me to gut scum read you.

I'M NOT VOTING ANYONE BUT HANS TODAY!!! sorry everybody!!! Just cos his tone is good doesn't mean he's town!!! I haven't heard any reason why he's townsies!!!! AND I THINK IF HE WAS TOWN LOTSA SCUM WOULD JOIN IT TO GOBBLE UP A TOWNIE WITHOUT LOOKING BAD!!! but nobody has!!!!

[Superhans]

I scum read you because you were trying to get other players to vote on me from the beginning.
As early as #50 you have been calling for my lynch. This caused me to gut scum read you.

I'M NOT VOTING ANYONE BUT HANS TODAY!!! sorry everybody!!! Just cos his tone is good doesn't mean he's town!!! I haven't heard any reason why he's townsies!!!! AND I THINK IF HE WAS TOWN LOTSA SCUM WOULD JOIN IT TO GOBBLE UP A TOWNIE WITHOUT LOOKING BAD!!! but nobody has!!!!

If you could kill two players instantly rn, and you use your first shot on me, who would your second shot be on?

[Riley Cake]

I'd hafta read everything first!!!!! I am a busy riley

[-Grey-]

I scum read you because you were trying to get other players to vote on me from the beginning.
As early as #50 you have been calling for my lynch. This caused me to gut scum read you.

I'M NOT VOTING ANYONE BUT HANS TODAY!!! sorry everybody!!! Just cos his tone is good doesn't mean he's town!!! I haven't heard any reason why he's townsies!!!! AND I THINK IF HE WAS TOWN LOTSA SCUM WOULD JOIN IT TO GOBBLE UP A TOWNIE WITHOUT LOOKING BAD!!! but nobody has!!!!

If you could kill two players instantly rn, and you use your first shot on me, who would your second shot be on?

Not that you're asking me, bit I'd empty the clip to be sure.

[lucca261]

hey hans, still waiting on those answers.

@tea, 754: I explained it, actually, that I think Omega is townlean/null and that I only disliked a comment he made about hans. It's consistent. and I love consistency.

@grey, 752: someone who townreading both players and preaching from the sidelines? well, let's see if QT will think that is a BS read.

[-Grey-]

@grey, 752: someone who townreading both players and preaching from the sidelines? well, let's see if QT will think that is a BS read.

Do you seriously believe a world exists in which they would endorse it? I don't see why they would as either alignment.

[Spade_Ace]

Sorry for the lack of activity. Will read and get back by today eve.

[lucca261]

I was just stating my saltyness with QT confbiasing.

I think your case is good, especially the part about QT calling Fred out for activity and putting Pim at null.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sure. Don't really know how but I have my vote on him.

Hey LUV. Move your vote from hans to omega, unless you are actually tr'ing omega, in which case tell me why.

Pedit : Disagree that the case is convincing. It is a case, but town don't always play according to a script. Fear definitely exists among the town, I used to think town would never think of saving themselves or town would never do this or that, but ultimately town tend to do pretty much everything, especially when afraid.

For example, hans said that he voted along with grey because he wanted to show that he was OK with (omega?) lynch. Grey took it in a completely different way and accused him of voting with his scum read, which is basically ridiculous because he was still voting for his scum read anyways. I also thought that has was semi - scum reading grey which meant that he also considered the possibility that grey is town.

No.

[chilledtea]

hey hans, still waiting on those answers.

@tea, 754: I explained it, actually, that I think Omega is townlean/null and that I only disliked a comment he made about hans. It's consistent. and I love consistency.

@grey, 752: someone who townreading both players and preaching from the sidelines? well, let's see if QT will think that is a BS read.

You said that hans and omega belong to different scum factions, if I am not mistaken.
How did he become a townlean/null from that?

[lucca261]

Momo was null. I liked Omega's entrance. I didn't like a statement he made on hans. If they're both scum, they are different alignments.

So a null/townlean. More a null tbh.

[chilledtea]

Frankly I find it inconceivable that someone would scum read hans and town read omega.

[Superhans]

@Lucca

440: @hans, I see what you're trying to do, but I'll answer anyway:

that Spade readlist just feels fake to me. I mean, he has only one scumread, and that is on a lurker. gut.

Posted lot of catchups, used them to don't engage on real time with other players, tunneled a player to death and used that to don't throw a lot of other reads.
also, a lot of IIoA, as RC said.

now a question for you: do you see similarities on that game and this one?

First question I think means: do you see any similarities between your play here and scum game in 669? I don't actually understand your response though. Really confused with what you have written (im illiterate af, please explain this like i'm seven years old.

If that is the question, then the answer is:
No. Not really.

Equally I see you as the type of player who would go out of their way to change their scum game so not to get detected so I'm not too sure.
Some things I am aware of:

1) you're exceedingly good at fabrication. You were quickly town read in 669 for this. I remember I complimented you in the mafia day chat saying that your fabricated content was more convincing than my genuine town content. You do make mistakes, and if you're scum, it'll show through mistakes.
2) Through most of the game you remained very calm. You taught me not to freak out when I was getting scum attacked, and it worked pretty damn well (very lucky I wasn't lynched D2, thanks).

In 669, I was very very obviously scum. You and Fitz both said so during the day chat. My survival depended entirely on me being able to tunnel weak players such as Rev, and relying on lynchbait, Friendly Computer, Sesq and also getting support from Doomfeathers who fell for some very very clumsy acting. I was town read by Cowbells because she didn't believe a scum player would play as badly as I did which is funny/tragic (imho).
You, on the otherhand, fitted into a category of the players who most of town could safely assume were town. e.g. you were never a wagon (correct me if i'm wrong). Players who remain level headed and keep their cards close to their chest. I think a wagon on you this game would be very very healthy for town, but I think you would need an exceedingly large amount of pressure to change how you play.

Second Question:

436: @hans, I don't see how you can say that he knew his reason was bogus. is this the only reason?

The word 'only' makes it seem like it is one isolated incidence, or like i am pinning my read on something small.
Momo's case was bogus, and it isn't the fact that it was bogus that makes him scum.

Town have bogus cases from time to time. I've made more than my fair share of bogus cases, even been responsible for mislynching town because of it. What

does

matter is that he KNEW it was bogus. Insincerity oozes out of his ISO.

The only thing that is putting me off lynching Omega, is that it is too easy. I am tempted to vote for another player (will not divulge who at this point). Part of the purpose of the vote is that it can pressure players into revealing more honestly reflective content, and considering Omega isn't actually here, and that my reasoning for voting on him is something that is already out there and obvious, it seems like a waste. Of course Omega will be my go-to at the end of the day (or Grey if town actually wakes up) but I don't think my vote will be on him continously for the next 7 days.

My question to you, Lucca, if you think my scum case on Momo is too small, is this:
Have you EVER played with a noob town who, after 12 pages of content can only vote on flavour?
Noobs may be wrong at higher rates than pros, but they certainly would have an opinion, by then.

[Superhans]

@Lucca,
i'm out of the loop, but chilled teas 772 implies that you're townreading Omega??

I can forgive nulling Omega, but what has he done to be town read?