Mini Normal 1890 - Endgame

[TwoFace]

Yeah, I hate this.

You asked a question which says I did something I definitely didn't do so shocker you hate it.

I'm town, basically confirmed at this point so you best just move the magna to save face.


But first. Please explain why you indirectly falsely accused me of 3rd party hunting

[TwoFace]

Because you use specific words that don't explicitly look for scum.

Except I've found 2 scum and you've found zero. Nice try bud. My words do look for scum because I look for the motivations behind posts. It's one thing to call out a bad post as bad, but I've explained why there is no town motivation for them.

The person I've caught as scum is the one doing what you think I am doing. At least 2 others also agree with that assessment of magna.

[TwoFace]

maybe even trying to convince him that he isn't town (

That isn't even remotely close to what happened.

[TwoFace]

why not argue that he's flat-out scu

I have flat out called him scum though. 100% scum even

[TwoFace]

The only thing easily readable and new from Boons since the last instance you called him "scum" in 480 was his "see you know my alignment/you're blacklisting town" posts in 486 492. That doesn't add up.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here or what exactly what issues you have. Can you explain better?

[TwoFace]

And Key does the same thing here speculated a jester for god knows what reason.

What key did is literally nothing similar to anything I've done.

[TwoFace]

Asking Key questions helps sort you both.

But why aren't you asking anyone else questions? Trying to sort anyone else?

Why are you busy trying to sort the person who's basically being NKd night 1?

You think I as scum can talk confidently about PRs not being in the game?

No. I've basically made it impossible for any scum to fake claim a PR this game. Why would I do that as scum?

How could I have the confidence level to do that as scum?

If I were scum there is no way I can make a bold statement like that.

[TwoFace]

The bottom line is I've never once attempted to hunt for 3rd party and nothing you've posted supports your accusations. So provide actual evidence or admit you made a false accusation

[keyenpeydee]

I like my vote so far

[Cooperative Sheep]

@Two-Face - have you had a chance to look for that Magna quote yet?

[TwoFace]

Which one

[Cooperative Sheep]

Show me where you as town made up a reason for an rvs push. Defended that reason multiple times, and later retracted it saying it was just an rvs and not serious.

No town should ever make up reasons to push somebody. No town should fake justify the fake reasons

Functionally this, though our specific discussion was about the retraction and saying it was not serious.

[TwoFace]

No haven't yet. I know he made a post that was basically implied that I didn't understand what he was trying to do which implies that his push wasn't genuine.

[Boonskiies]

Am I Bonnie?

[TwoFace]

Idk. Do you lie over the ocean?

[-Grey-]

Do you lie over the sea?

[ZZZX]

So Luckily I get to keep my slot yay.
I havent read the game in the last day with all the confusion of the ban. will read later!

[Lycanfire]

Not much to comment on, but I sort of like to post once a day just to keep the prods away.
No strong read on the Lycan v. Elena thing.
Boon v. Elena feels like an Elena win and does kind of negative feedback me on Lycan just due to the support he's drawing to otherwise at least somewhat structured issues but I think my real reaction is just to call Boon scum, and maybe Two Face is right in his call on the exchange.

The Boons wagon as of this post mirrors the Magna wagon 300-400 posts previous. You know- the wagon that made it's way out of RVS. How do you feel about having a stale wagon (Boons) for 100 posts, which is really just an extension of RVS (400+ stale)?

In what way do you dislike the Elena wagon? Half the voters were previously non-commital, while the other half were from 2F. Is it bad to have the Elena wagon emerge here?

You can have more of an opinion on my back and forth with Elena-no, I'm sure you do, but you're being a poor sport and holding out.

Feel like we should start with magna since boon claimed bipolar so......

The only time someone (publicly, live, in-game) claimed personal issues in my games they were scum. This is not AI.

they had an unamusing entrance indicative of lazy scum or a townie that doesn't want to share reads yet. since they had replaced in hours previous i'm not sure it's the latter. they gave intent on boons. putting them to l-2 no-k, supposedly hammering ok. no real evolution in reads or attempt to further the game. probscum. regardless of alignment does not articulate themselves well.

So do you think Momo scum fits with your Elena scum read?

Not more than most of the people in this game.

Something bothering me from the moment Elena matched Boons was that there was a dropoff in unique contributions, people saying they would catch up and so on. In this time there has only been ZZZX's arrival, Momo's re-arrival, sheep vs Grey, Momo attempting to "compromise" with 2F, and 2F affirming Boons|Magna being lynched and then that Boons is being lynched. Nothing really breaking from the status quo beyond Grey's vote-change. Anyone not of the original Elena wagon (Grey, Jack, Boons, myself) is fair game-slight bias towards people nearly flaking out of the game, but like I'm implying I don't like the altwagon being dug in concurrently with the Elena wagon/lack of consensus.

Is going for Momo here your best lynch? What is a Momo scumflip going to tell us?

so if you come out looking bad in this exchange not sheep, and your push makes me want to defend sheep over you and I don't want to defend sheep because I don't even have a town read on him.

Do you perceive Grey+Momo as a force that can derail your wagons? Why would you consider going out of the way to defend someone you don't townread otherwise?

Yet he's now trying to appeal to Boon (who he keeps calling 100% scum) to vote me since I'm "pocketing" him.

Is it a bad thing for 2F to say something sane like imply his reads are evolving, not shitpost by necessitating the lynch of two players etc. Why chastise over commend 2F for this and use it a means to continue your own reads?

Is 2F scum with Momo?

[Lycanfire]

I've got 4 scummy people ahead of Momo so why would I waste time on him or anyone else for that matter?

Well given your top two are Town (me) and Boon (who I don't think seems likely scum given how easily his slot was quick-wagonned on lurker status given the lack of pressure on other lurker slots) are at best 1/2 and probably 0/2 the fact that you acknowledge you are too lazy to look beyond your limited and myopic views isn't surprising. So given you don't bother to actually explain who your other two scum reads above Momo are in any useful fashion (and I doubt you've nailed possible Momo partners in those mystery slots) I'll just reserve this for the time Momo ever flips scum to show you how weak your game play was to this point.

That of course assumes you are Town which I'm still not 100% on.

This may be a hold-my-beer post but this can be interpreted that you think Boons is a town mislynch altwagon to yourself AND you are town AND your wagon comp isn't bad THEN scum are ignoring (2) mislynches (yourself, 1 of boons|elena). From your pov in this post shouldn't 1 of boons|elena be a town driven scum lynch?

Another question: why attempt to start a fourth wagon?

Lastly, what are:
dsob
dsob
tsob
tsoc

because i'm not going to play games only to have you spell out dankest later or something stupid.

[TwoFace]

Do you perceive Grey+Momo as a force that can derail your wagons? Why would you consider going out of the way to defend someone you don't townread otherwise?

I can't stand when people say things that aren't true, even if they aren't about me. I saw Sheep's response as being what I would expect from any reasonable player.

[Cooperative Sheep]

The Boons wagon as of this post mirrors the Magna wagon 300-400 posts previous. You know- the wagon that made it's way out of RVS. How do you feel about having a stale wagon (Boons) for 100 posts, which is really just an extension of RVS (400+ stale)?

I would note that the only alternate wagon that has sprung up and is new is the Elena wagon, and I would be happily willing to compare the relative strengths between that and the Boon wagon.
The other is the Momo wagon, which I have expressed interest in if others moved.
So I don't really get the point - there are only 2 "newer" wagons, and I have commented on both.
Wagon age doesn't prove wagon case strength.

In what way do you dislike the Elena wagon? Half the voters were previously non-commital, while the other half were from 2F. Is it bad to have the Elena wagon emerge here?

I never said anything to suggest that the Elena wagon was bad, I did say I wasn't really personally sold on it - is there a reason you think I really should be?

You can have more of an opinion on my back and forth with Elena-no, I'm sure you do, but you're being a poor sport and holding out.

I don't have a strong enough read on Elena to want to attack the wagon on her like I'm attacking the wagon on Magna, because at least with Magna I've straight up started to say I think he's town. With Elena the most I have is an early gut read. I suppose I *could* leap in and start attacking the wagon just to get reactions, but I'd much rather let that one stew awhile to get reads for myself on the people attacking and defending it. Is there part of your case you'd like my thoughts on?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So looking at the game-state anyone who wants to sell “MoI and Boon are scum partners” is either scum or just had no clue how to read a game-state. Boon and I have been the dominant wagons all day long (with a minor excursion to Elena that makes me think she’s more likely Town but I would have to look at the vote movement to be sure). So yeah …

BBT is probably scum.

--

Something bothering me from the moment Elena matched Boons was that there was a dropoff in unique contributions, people saying they would catch up and so on. In this time there has only been ZZZX's arrival, Momo's re-arrival, sheep vs Grey, Momo attempting to "compromise" with 2F, and 2F affirming Boons|Magna being lynched and then that Boons is being lynched. Nothing really breaking from the status quo beyond Grey's vote-change. Anyone not of the original Elena wagon (Grey, Jack, Boons, myself) is fair game-slight bias towards people nearly flaking out of the game, but like I'm implying I don't like the altwagon being dug in concurrently with the Elena wagon/lack of consensus.

Is going for Momo here your best lynch? What is a Momo scumflip going to tell us?

First off lynching scum is always better than mislynching Town. Always. So downplaying the validity of it as a wagon makes me wonder … why would you go out of your want to do so Day 1 with no flips?

Momo stands as my best bet for scum. Too much of his posting is basically confirming the current game-state (the two most viable wagons are scum) in a way that demonstrates he actually isn’t getting reads. Furthermore he’s focused on all the wrong things (Boons and the whole Bipolar issue) in his posting . He’s looking for reasons to continue simply pushing on the most uncontroversial stance possible.

Is it a bad thing for 2F to say something sane like imply his reads are evolving, not shitpost by necessitating the lynch of two players etc. Why chastise over commend 2F for this and use it a means to continue your own reads?

Is 2F scum with Momo?

His reads aren’t evolving as his subsequent posting has demonstrated (Still standing that he’s ‘caught two scum’ which has to be myself and Boon). I’ve already addressed this with Sheep so rather than go for repeat commentary why aren’t you fully catching up? I mean the thread is not that long.

And no DSOC isn’t likely partners with Momo. If DSOC is scum it is with ThingBig 100%. And very unlikely that scum Momo directly drafts in DSOC’s shadow as partners when him eventually being proven dead wrong makes DSOC (and by transitive associations Momo) look scummy.

This may be a hold-my-beer post but this can be interpreted that you think Boons is a town mislynch altwagon to yourself AND you are town AND your wagon comp isn't bad THEN scum are ignoring (2) mislynches (yourself, 1 of boons|elena). From your pov in this post shouldn't 1 of boons|elena be a town driven scum lynch?

No. Why would you think that? The only wagon of the three that seems likely to have a chance at hitting scum is Elena. And as I said above even then I’d have to look at the wagon closely to see who moved there and where they went when the wagon quickly fell to decide if I think that is the case.

Scum aren’t ignoring a mislynch on myself or Boon. The game-state means they don’t probably feel comfortable that apathy is going to take hold and enough people are just going to say “Fuck it, taking too long, let’s lynch one and sort it out tomorrow”. So they are just sitting back. Which is why I suspect BBT at this stage. Jaack also fits that profile. Elena maybe fills that void as well but as I said I have to look back at how her wagon came together to see what I think. Scum certainly don't have to stick their necks out when if I am correct about DSOC / ThingBig they have honorary scum doing the work for them which they then can attack down the line.

--

34 pages and no lynch - bad times.

And this kind of post from BBT is why I’m leaning scum on him. He’s done nothing this game. Look at his ISO. Prod-dodge and excuse after prod-dodge. Yet now he is decrying a lack of lynch when he’s done nothing to actually help find scum at all.

BBT is probs scum hoping to wait out a mislynch on myself or Boon at this stage.

--

if I assume this is true, please tell me why you've played like scum?

Um … I haven’t. Again you are either just playing piss-poor leaning on things that just poor reasons to scum-read anyone or you are scum. I can’t explain to you why you hold bad beliefs on stances that you do. That’s your own job to parse out.

There isn't a single post of yours that looks good to me. I see no genuine scum hunting and when people make good points against you, goi either ignored them, discredit thrk, or respond poorly.

And this is why I think my role read on you is correct and you are just bad. Because your lack of seeing even a single post that is “good to me” is a you problem. I mean my wagon consists of you and ThinkBig who are either scum partners or badly playing [INSERT THING HERE], BBT (who is lurking I think purposefully at this stage and may be scum), Grey (who hopped on because Sheep isn’t voting me which is … shrug-worthy) and Momo (pretty clearly scum that you want to ignore said scum posting).

There isn't a single post of yours that looks good to me. I see no genuine scum hunting and when people make good points against you, goi either ignored them, discredit thrk, or respond poorly.

I’ve already done this. Why do you keep saying asking for the same thing? I explain to you why your reasoning was poor (it resolves around stances that aren’t scum-hunting tools but poor stances like LynchAllLiars) and you rejected it outright. Why do you think I want to waste my time doing in again?

Except I've found 2 scum and you've found zero.

Lol. Just lol.

[TwoFace]

magna, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Every single vote you have made this game has been for NON AI or even NON scummy reasons.

My vote on you I feel have been for AI reasons and I have done a good job explaining why I think they are AI. (at least nobody has questioned me about them)

You are sitting at L-2 currently

, which means others agree that you are probably scum.

Now a good player would probably stop insulting the person that they think is town [insert thing here] and spend more time actually scum hunting and trying to convince people that you are not scum and their votes on you are wrong.


Here I will give you some advice which is actually in my signature and is actually good advice that any good player should be doing anyway

4. If people want me to stop tunneling they need to provide me with a better alternative with good reasoning

[Lycanfire]

Wagon age doesn't prove wagon case strength.

Sure it does. It brings into question why Boons is alive if the Boons wagon is really just an extension of the Magna wagon:

Votecount 1.2

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher

:

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

Boonskiies

momo

:

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

Elena Fisher, mattblackguy, TwoFace, BlueBloodedToffee, Cooperative Sheep

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

: Jaack

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

MagnaofIllusion, -Grey-

MagnaofIllusion is the leading wagon with five votes.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
momo replaces cchengshi effective immediately.

Boons wagon

Votecount 1.3

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy, TwoFace

Elena Fisher

:

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

momo

:

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

BlueBloodedToffee

, momo

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

: Jaack

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

MagnaofIllusion, -Grey-, Boonskiies

Boonskiies is the leading wagon with 4 votes (L-3).
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
TheRealGin-N-Tonic has been prodded.
Please remember to keep the thread positive. This is a game, you're all supposed to be having fun!

Elena wagon forms

Votecount 1.4

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy, TwoFace

Elena Fisher

: Lycanfire,

-Grey-

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

momo

:

MagnaofIllusion

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

BlueBloodedToffee

, momo

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

: Jaack

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

Boonskiies

Boonskiies is the leading wagon with 4 votes (L-3).
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-21 00:00:00)

Peak of Elena wagon

Votecount 1.5

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy, TwoFace

Elena Fisher

: Lycanfire,

-Grey-

, Jaack,

Boonskiies

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

momo

:

MagnaofIllusion

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

BlueBloodedToffee

, momo

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

:

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

Boonskiies and Elena Fisher are the leading wagons with 4 votes (L-3).
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-21 00:00:00)
mattblackguy has requested replacement.
Lycanfire is a cool dude.

[Lycanfire]

I never said anything to suggest that the Elena wagon was bad, I did say I wasn't really personally sold on it - is there a reason you think I really should be?

In 668 you seemed to imply you hated it based on associatives. Can you explain?

I don't have a strong enough read on Elena to want to attack the wagon on her like I'm attacking the wagon on Magna, because at least with Magna I've straight up started to say I think he's town. With Elena the most I have is an early gut read. I suppose I *could* leap in and start attacking the wagon just to get reactions, but I'd much rather let that one stew awhile to get reads for myself on the people attacking and defending it. Is there part of your case you'd like my thoughts on?

I care less about your opinion of my case and more about your opinions of Elena's posts.