DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[Almost Chara]

I obviously don't believe that he's doing it because we're "oh so scary"

Why not? It definitely read that way to me.

I don't think you guys are arrogant, I just didn't like that gin wanted me to vote nancy and wasn't really explaining why.

If Almost genuinely believed that we would figure him out, then claiming early makes absolutely no sense (since we wouldn't let him get run up to claim, presumably). Neither Gin and I have the experience with him that justifies him going "oh you three are so scary" instead "oh mastina you're so scary".

It was my way to test YOU, Mastina. I'm only familiar of Nacho/Gin's play in general, but not enough to set a reaction test on either that would return me a read with any degree of confidence. I'm more familiar with your critical thought process though, which inspired me to run this little test.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Oh, so it's Nacho posting. My bad.

Now what do you think of the explanation? The test was indeed intended for Mastina, and that's why I wanted to know whom I was talking to.

~A50

[Infinity 324]

I don't think scum!nacho would single out me to shadow so I'm tentatively going to call him town. There's also some meta contributing to that read.

[The Wood Cutters]

If I'm honest, it has that aftertaste of it being a gambit and I don't see it being a scum!gambit, moreso a mastina!gambit that would come from town her. You say that ya'll are close or something so I can see the parallel to say it was a town!gambit, so town!Almost.

[drealmerz7]

SEE THIS THING I DO?! IT'S A GAMBIT! YA!

gambitfail

just no

no

nonono

NO

[Almost Chara]

UNVOTE:

That explanation is good enough for me

Still want to know why you got scum pings from my initial push, almost.

I was trying to get you off my back. I was fully concentrating on the TWC slot and didn't want to be distracted, yet I didn't/couldn't have explained what I was doing beforehand. It would have nullified my effort and voided the whole purpose of it.

Seriously though, it does "bug" me (doesn't auto-earn you a SR, but it really bugs me) when you (or anyone) jump in my way while I'm trying to figure out someone else. It's an unneeded distraction at best at that precise time.

I'm willing and ready now though, so if you have any questions for me go ahead. I will answer them all to the best of my ability.

~A50

[Infinity 324]

Why did you think that suspicion of me would get me off your back?

[Almost Chara]

If I'm honest, it has that aftertaste of it being a gambit and I don't see it being a scum!gambit, moreso a mastina!gambit that would come from town her. You say that ya'll are close or something so I can see the parallel to say it was a town!gambit, so town!Almost.

You either need to ISO Mastina in Steven Universe II (HUGE ISO, but search Almost50/Almost/A50), OR you can simply talk to her in your hydra PT. Mastina modded Gistou shortly before we played together in SU II, and I believe she was in a hydra playing in Soccer Spirits (although if I remember correctly they were NK'd on N1). Oh, and most recently she also replaced in with me in WWE (I was Scum in both SS & WWE, and was Town in both Gistou & SU II).

Generally speaking, I'd say Mastina is one of the players who CAN read me well (and believe me, it's not an easy task because I do look scummy when I'm Town and vise versa). Others may include Frozen Angel, Titus, and maybe RC. Sorry if I missed someone else who has a high chance of reading me as either alignment.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Why did you think that suspicion of me would get me off your back?

Well, it was good a "try" as anything. I really didn't know what to do and I didn't have much room to wiggle without giving my hand away.

~A50

[The Wood Cutters]

Hey ThinkBig, you could always post.

[The Wood Cutters]

I don't see why a real claim wild make more flavor sense than a fakeclaim. But I don't really know the flavor

I might be misunderstanding your confusion here, but I think that the flavor matches up with the role pretty solidly and that's an expectation that I have with most if not all roles in the game. As a result, either you or someone on your scumteam is a history buff and thought it would be cool if your character was a miller (possible, but doubtful), Aristophanes gave you a miller claim (also doubtful - miller fakeclaims are fakeclaims that typically have to be made immediately to be accepted and mods typically don't shoehorn their scumteams into playing a certain way), or you're just town. I find the last possibility more likely than the other two.

I take issue with the first, non-underlined part because the certainty is too strong, as for the underlined part, what makes you so doubtful about that, TWC? why no jester in the british court? why no neutral survivor who just wants all the killing to stop? what sense does a serial killer make in this flavor setup, do we have Jack the Ripper walking around among us do you think? please help me see your thoughts that allowed you to come up with this statement

I don't think there's a third party other than a SK because Aristophanes is running his first closed setup and strikes me as the type of person who would be worried more about making a balanced not wacky game than he would be about adding in a wacky neutral role. It's a judgment call based on who I think Aristophanes is based on my experiences with him; I feel pretty good about the assertion, sure, but the foundation for thinking so is admittedly shaky as all hell.

and then I compare what I feel like you've done so far to this point vs. what prism has done so far to this point, and I like what they've done a lot more than what you have (though I'm liking your more activity this morning simply because it is more activity and that is necessary to read you - what we were getting yesterday after game-start was weaksauce)

do you think what prism has done is scummy? or just weak?

My entry this morning was the first time that I've seriously posted in this game - in that time, I commented on all major events of the game and most minor games and was able to flesh out reads on the majority of players (people who I didn't develop reads on didn't do anything to read them on). I don't think it's fair to say that Prism's done more than I have, and that's not even taking mastina/Gin's posting into account - you liking Prism's posts more than liking mine is an opinion that I disagree with, but I've talked about Prism already so I'm not sure what more can be said about that point that's productive.

You're right that I'm harsher on Prism than I am on other people - Prism has one of the best scum games that I've ever seen and also dislikes sticking his neck out, so as long as I'm alive, I'm going to make the job for a hypothetical Prism!scum as difficult as possible. I do think that what he's posted so far is legitimately scummy; making a strong entrance and leaving a good impression early and then completely fading away is an excellent strategy for scum in general and it goes against the "I'M BACK" vibe that he gave early.

I'm moving to mobile shortly; sorry in advance for the formatting because I don't have the patience to consolidate quote walls into one post like I do on a laptop.

[The Wood Cutters]

can you elaborate what you mean by this? I started to address it and then realized I could be accused of making assumptions and so I'd like you to expand on it first

You tend to get pushed on pretty frequently in games. If I'm scum trying to mislynch you, it's doubtful I lead the charge and more likely I capitalize on momentum formed on you down the road.

[The Wood Cutters]

You didn't love it, you didn't hate it, wow, can you be more non-commital before then going on to make a case that they're probably town as weakly as you can?

In your response to this, you've noted the scum motivation for holding a read that isn't confident, but you haven't shown why that's an unreasonable approach to take. My discussion about Chara's opening was an allusion to the Prism case (worthy of questioning, not worthy of case + blitz), and I have a tentative read on Almost's approach to us but "I claimed VT because you guys can read me" is a pretty unusual move in general so I think having a tentative read there is pretty understandable.

[Prism]

I had no memorable thoughts over the last few pages so I'll come back to them later. For now I'll respond to TWC, which will annoy Nacho some more because that's not what he wants.

Bulk of #254 & #256: I think you're missing a big perspective point here. I

do not mind

making strong reaches early game, especially if they feel intuitive. I also made no attempt to pass them off as something more or, more importantly, something that

people would agree with.

My push on Chara I especially expected to be the only one to feel this way. The teeth are not in the objectivity but in the fact that they are my beliefs.

Why were you waiting for my entrance in order to read us? The Gin post you noted seemed like a good opportunity to pressure, get a read.

I

did

pressure Gin on that post, even if I'm not trying as hard to read him. I think my motivation behind waiting on you to jump in is obvious-I'm a lot more familiar with your play than either of theirs. I barely paid either note in camn's.

Spoiler: All of this activity-related garbage

Mainly waiting on Nacho to read Wood Cutters, which will likely peeve him slightly and I am a-OK with that. Surf's up.

So, right now, it seems like your initial approach was that you're Back With a Vengeance Part II and then from there you fizzled out completely shortly after. If your approach was the one that you described to Infinity (making something happen, killing people, etc), then why haven't you tried to read Nancy on anything other than the question that you're convinced had no intent behind it? Why didn't you engage with Gin when he made a post that was iffy? Why didn't you try to talk to the Almost head when they appeared? Do you have any interesting takes on anything or was your plan for today was to pick one fight and then feed on scraps for the rest of the game?

Prism - Have already gone in depth into this read enough, but the short version is that his Almost Chara case is nine parts fizzle and one part bite, his read on nancy seems lazy if I'm feeling charitable, and still underwhelmed and was expecting some more pizzazz after he made his opening posts about how hyped he was to be in the saddle again.

I do think that what he's posted so far is legitimately scummy; making a strong entrance and leaving a good impression early and then completely fading away is an excellent strategy for scum in general and it goes against the "I'M BACK" vibe that he gave early.

I went to dinner and then slept for 14/15 hours. The time I haven't been here is <24 hours. All that you described happened after my last posts, other than my phone posts that were 0 effort and borderline automatic reactions.

also dislikes sticking his neck out

I think this is a puzzling mischaracterization, in the sense that it's one that you had no reason to make. Specifically, while I was this way during Sakura Wars, you've repeatedly seen that I think of my play in terms of utility first, artistry second, and have explicitly acknowledged that I

do not mind dying at all

, even preferring it that way, as scum.

I expected you to be expectant of me, but elements of these interactions are a puzzle to me in the sense that a range of them are overblown, but only a certain fraction of them seem purposely so rather than all, and discerning which ones those are is difficult.

[Prism]

I don't understand why you automatically think that Drealmer is town from this interaction in a world where Not Chara is scum; would regard a bad attempt as scumhunting as just that and wouldn't use it to determine any alignment but the scumhunter's.

I actually considered following that up with a clarification that Chara scum didn't necessarily equal Drealm town but didn't really feel it was worth a post. I found Chara scum+Drealm town more likely at the time but didn't think that both scum were excluded. I say "at the time" because I have yet to process A50's posts from the past day.

[Prism]

From an objective standpoint I shouldn't have made those-as I'm confident you'll scumread them-but you'll have to excuse a bit of selfindulgence.

[Tea and Biscuits]

Spoiler: Stream-Of-Consciousness Wall

* Pine has a one-post ISO
* T&B scumreading dreal right off the bat is ew. This is pretty typical dreal. One reason why I ignored the thread for the first couple days was because people were pushing so hard on easy target dreal
* Seriously using meta to justify a page 3 scumread? Uh
* And another (nancy) jumps on dreal for being dreal. This is an infuriating reality of every dreal game.
* I really don't like how T&B keeps digging a tunnel with a spoon
* Again I'm super-skeptical of Infinity's Miller claim. It was totally unprompted, but that means nothing when it comes to Miller claims - it could just as easily be scum trying to preemptively justify an investigation result as it could be town preemptively attempting to dispel uncertainty. But his flavor claim (Edward V) makes

absolutely

no sense IMO. Richard III would make

much

more sense for a Miller. Miller also seems like a very unusual pick for a Mini, unless it's only part of the role.
* Bork's entrance jumping immediately on the dreal wagon is super scummy
* Same with Empking
* I like Prism's entrance into the game though
* While I'm skeptical of Infinity's Miller claim I approve of his posting so far
* WoodCutters seriously needs to sign their bloody posts EDIT: And they refuse to which is fucking annoying
* I have to agree with WC that nancy's literal OMGUS is awful
* I think T&B's #145 is awful. I don't think I'm the first to point this out
* Bork's #147 um...
* I hate AC's entrance into the game too. Of the other two I mentioned earlier, Bork is still really scummy to me but Empking got better
* ARGH SPAM WC STAHP
* ARGH BADLY-FORMATTED WALLS DREAL STAHP
* AC and nancy both lash out at a different player for "butting in" while they are having a conversation with someone else. They both use it as an easy excuse to not answer the player who "butt in"
* @WC: There were two reasons I just ignored the drealmerz drama after that comment - yeah, laziness was one, and the second was something you mentioned: it's really easy to get sucked into defending drealmerz for a long period that doesn't do much good, especially since committing to defending a particular player hardcore this early could be self-defeating
* OH GOD THE SPAM PLS NO The worst thing about WC's spam is that I feel obligated to actually read it because their heads actually say things of import
* AC's WIFOM-heavy #275 is terrible. Most egregious is their insistence that Tracker or Neapolitan would catch them if they were fakeclaiming - AC could easily just be a Goon.

Right now I could go for Bork, Nancy, AC, or T&B about in that order.

Since this already has some footing:

VOTE: nancy

Didn't you say you thought Infinity's Miller claim was fake? Why isn't he in your lynchpool?

-- Postie

[Tea and Biscuits]

Furthermore, why were posts such as

4 pages while I was asleep 0_0

I'm a miller

Miller? In a Mini?

...Really?

King Edward V*

rofl are you serious?

One of the Princes in the Tower? A Miller?

I just don't buy it.

not accompanied by a vote on Infinity?

VOTE: Wraith

It feels like you're trying to find something to nitpick for the sake of it, allowing you to criticise Infinity without having to commit to a real push on him. It's scummy and also reads like potential distancing. 130 in particular is terrible; I don't know how to explain it but just read it dear god.

If Wraith flips scum lynch Infinity.

-- Postie

[The Wood Cutters]

Yo postie, I'm at a loss.

You say Wraith is scummy for his push on Infinity.

Then you say it's distancing meaning they're scumbuds.

So that means you think Infinity is scum lying meaning you would also agree with Wraith saying Infinity is lying.

That doesn't add up mate.

[Tea and Biscuits]

Also I'm not scumreading dreal anymore. I started doubting the scumread pretty quickly but wanted to keep pushing him to see if anything useful would come out of it. He's producing some content now that looks like I could potentially get a read from when I have a clearer head so I'm not really interested in tunneling there anymore.
Almost Chara's probably town too.

P-Edit

You say Wraith is scummy for his push on Infinity.

Then you say it's distancing meaning they're scumbuds.

So that means you think Infinity is scum lying meaning you would also agree with Wraith saying Infinity is lying.

Your argument being that if he's criticising Infinity for something he knows is true then it can't be scummy? Fuck no. It's how he's going about things that's the problem. He's heavily criticising Infinity for something that implies he thinks Infinity is scum while avoiding committing to a push or even a fucking

read

on him, and that's scummy regardless of whether they're partners or not.

-- Postie

[The Wood Cutters]

That's not my argument.

[Tea and Biscuits]

Okay. Then are you going to explain what it is?

-- Postie

[The Wood Cutters]

In order for you to think Wraith's push to be scummy, you have to believe in the miller claim. If you believe in the miller claim, that means Infinity is town. You then go to say lynch Infinity because Wraith is scum. That doesn't follow through logically.

[Tea and Biscuits]

In order for you to think Wraith's push to be scummy, you have to believe in the miller claim.

No? Scum!Wraith can call out scum!Infinity for faking a miller claim. Again, it's not the accusation itself that's the problem but rather how Wraith is going about it, which is why I just said it's scummy even in a world where Infinity is town.

-- Postie

[The Wood Cutters]

So you don't believe the miller claim?