DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that makes sense.

post 439

Look at the amount of depth here, and wraith also said he had burnout in that game not too long before that post.

[The Wood Cutters]

That paragraph probable come across as more certain than I really feel.

I agree with Prism that this line adds in more nuance to a read that Empking certainly didn't fake in Sakura Wars. I don't think Sakura Wars is a good example of Empking's scumgame in general, though.

Phrases like "These statements don't come from town" is not just applying pressure.

Empty rhetoric, while a fairly ineffective way of applying good pressure, is the bread and butter of people who are trying to apply pressure for pressure's sake.

perhaps trying to pre-empt his possible suspicion of you.

I've never found this to be a particularly useful tactic (or one that is employed often).

I find it reasonably likely that wraith was suspicious of my claim but hadn't looked into my content until he did, and he liked my content.

I think that you're cutting him too much slack.
Sure, that's a reasonable narrative, but is there enough to support it?

1) The reasons for him being suspicious of your claim don't make any sense whatsoever. The flavor argument is utter shit, the "hah! there aren't Millers in a Mini!" argument is similarly nonsensical. When people point out that his perspective doesn't make sense, he doesn't stand behind it; he just leaves it at that.

2) Why does he like your content? What about your posting did he like? Why did he think it had to come from town? The only thing he said was "I approve of Infinity's posting", while if he actually thought your content was good enough to supplant his paranoia of your Miller claim, I think that he would probably put more effort into showing his work on that townread there.

[The Wood Cutters]

Yeah that makes sense.

post 439

Look at the amount of depth here, and wraith also said he had burnout in that game not too long before that post.

Sometimes burnout comes in strong as hell, sometimes is comes a little weaker, but I do think you have a point in that town!Wraith's engagement with the game would almost certainly be more nuanced than the catchup we got here.

[The Wood Cutters]

That flavor makes sense for a miller, but also for scum. I just wish people would quit claiming. Is this a standard thing to do in a closed setup?

Miller claiming immediately is fairly standard; avoids a situation where the cop investigates the miller, miller is mislynched and cop is nightkilled for absolutely no benefit at all.

Data on my omnitool says Infinity has fake claimed cop before. I do not find the miller claim believable. Furthermore miller does match the history in the sense of neveer being crowned but a 12 year old boy who gets assassinated by Richard is unlikely a miller. Not crowed yes, which I found a first glance. Looking deeper I find miller unlikely. The question is if Infinity324 is lying as I suspect he is if he is scum for it.

Making the argument that a miller doesn't make sense as a miller because you don't agree with the flavor is fairly silly, especially when the rationale (he is a Monarch despite not being crowned) makes a perfect amount of sense.

I had TWC as a townlean until you poked them with "you do look scummy TWC".

That is something either said to a buddy or someone you know is town. I don't like it.

What?
Drealmer interacted with us in a way where it was either a scumpartner or scum talking to a townie, and we're scummier as a result...?

[The Wood Cutters]

I don't know. I really don't care, literally anything I do on D1 gets me killed eventually, so why bother?

This reads vaguely town.
Is an absolutely horrible read to have - if you have decided that whatever you do will kill you and you're not going to have an impact on the game as a whole, would recommend replacing out and taking a break from mafia until your batteries are recharged.

[Wraith]

I don't know. I really don't care, literally anything I do on D1 gets me killed eventually, so why bother?

This reads vaguely town.
Is an absolutely horrible read to have - if you have decided that whatever you do will kill you and you're not going to have an impact on the game as a whole, would recommend replacing out and taking a break from mafia until your batteries are recharged.

This was already intended to be my last game for some time.

[The Wood Cutters]

What lead you to believe that millers were unacceptable in minis but not in larges?

[The Wood Cutters]

I fucking hate D1 in closed setups and prefer to get through them as fast and cleanly as possible. The more flips there are the better I can start getting down to business more seriously.

There has been plenty of content on the table where you can get down to business more seriously now.
There's no significant difference between Day 1 and Day 2; getting a flip Day 2 of a lynch no one really cares about and a nightkill of someone who would have helped solve the game (but didn't get time to) isn't particularly productive. It's also not like if you actively lurk through Day 1 then Day 2 you'll be able to find some hidden motivation and turn it on; I started skimming the 20-30something whatever that was and lost a pretty strong chunk of motivation to properly read through the actually useful pieces at the end of it.

If this is your last game for a while, then I suggest going out with a bang and not a whimper - play in the way that will leave you with the best memories of the game as opposed to whatever is happening here.

[Wraith]

I feel a Miller in a Mini can be a role that heavily shifts balance compared to in a Large. Since mislynches in Minis are usually more significantly bad for the town, it can lead to an easy mislynch that can easily move right into a mislynch on the Cop who claimed the guilty result. Two mislynches in a row, with one being a critical power role, with three scum, would severely handicap the town's efforts and probably lose them the game. It's not nearly as big a balance problem in a Large because there's far more targets for the Cop to potentially investigate and each mislynch isn't potentially crippling.

I don't know, my view might be overly slanted because we recently finished Greatest Idea Mafia where the Town had irreversibly lost the game after two mislynches, but that is a setup with no inherent balance.

Even still, thinking about it more, two mislynches + two nightkills would automatically put Town in a LyLo situation, and that's if we do two mislynches right off the bat.

But honestly this is all rather pointless and counter-productive since we have no real idea what the setup balance is, and I don't particularly like early setup spec.

That said, I'm going to setup spec some more for a moment. If Infinity is telling the truth, it pretty much confirms there is a Cop in the game.

[The Wood Cutters]

For the record, that's another reason why I believe the miller claim. If by LyLo no cop has died, obviously the play should be for the cop to claim at that point, reveal targets and the sort.

IF THERE IS NO COP, you lynch Infinity.

[Wraith]

For the record, that's another reason why I believe the miller claim. If by LyLo no cop has died, obviously the play should be for the cop to claim at that point, reveal targets and the sort.

IF THERE IS NO COP, you lynch Infinity.

Yeah good point. Infinity's claim in a way puts a time limit on his life.

[The Wood Cutters]

IF THERE IS NO COP, you lynch Infinity.

Slight disagreement between heads, but no.

[The Wood Cutters]

I feel a Miller in a Mini can be a role that heavily shifts balance compared to in a Large. Since mislynches in Minis are usually more significantly bad for the town, it can lead to an easy mislynch that can easily move right into a mislynch on the Cop who claimed the guilty result. Two mislynches in a row, with one being a critical power role, with three scum, would severely handicap the town's efforts and probably lose them the game. It's not nearly as big a balance problem in a Large because there's far more targets for the Cop to potentially investigate and each mislynch isn't potentially crippling.

Site meta is for millers to claim immediately, which takes down the chances of them being mislynched by a pretty significant degree.
Roles that swing number of mislynches also aren't particularly rare in Minis (Belkar and Leonshade's roles in OOTS both affected the number of available mislynches).
Putting a miller in with no Cop is also a fairly acceptable mod move.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry TWC, but it's very confusing trying to read your posts when the situation for each head is different and I don't know which head is talking. If you're going to act as individual heads, please sign your posts.

[The Wood Cutters]

What in particular is confusing about my posts?

[The Wood Cutters]

Nacho head has been catching up and talking with people recently. The only post not made by me recently was #1009, which was a post made by Gin.

[Infinity 324]

Ok that clears that part up. The problem is just that in general if you guys disagree on something or someone is catching up and the others aren't it can get confusing if you don't sign and it's annoying to have to figure out which head is which.

[Commander Shepard]

That was the most fucking town replace out I've seen.

Agreed.

[Commander Shepard]

That flavor makes sense for a miller, but also for scum. I just wish people would quit claiming. Is this a standard thing to do in a closed setup?

Miller claiming immediately is fairly standard; avoids a situation where the cop investigates the miller, miller is mislynched and cop is nightkilled for absolutely no benefit at all.

Data on my omnitool says Infinity has fake claimed cop before. I do not find the miller claim believable. Furthermore miller does match the history in the sense of neveer being crowned but a 12 year old boy who gets assassinated by Richard is unlikely a miller. Not crowed yes, which I found a first glance. Looking deeper I find miller unlikely. The question is if Infinity324 is lying as I suspect he is if he is scum for it.

Making the argument that a miller doesn't make sense as a miller because you don't agree with the flavor is fairly silly, especially when the rationale (he is a Monarch despite not being crowned) makes a perfect amount of sense.

Not to me it doesn't. And flavor breaking a setup is dumb. Otherwise we would all just flavor claim and pick the least favorite ones.

I had TWC as a townlean until you poked them with "you do look scummy TWC".

That is something either said to a buddy or someone you know is town. I don't like it.

What?
Drealmer interacted with us in a way where it was either a scumpartner or scum talking to a townie, and we're scummier as a result...?

That was my initial impression on read through. It was wrong.

[Commander Shepard]

I feel a Miller in a Mini can be a role that heavily shifts balance compared to in a Large. Since mislynches in Minis are usually more significantly bad for the town, it can lead to an easy mislynch that can easily move right into a mislynch on the Cop who claimed the guilty result. Two mislynches in a row, with one being a critical power role, with three scum, would severely handicap the town's efforts and probably lose them the game. It's not nearly as big a balance problem in a Large because there's far more targets for the Cop to potentially investigate and each mislynch isn't potentially crippling.

I don't know, my view might be overly slanted because we recently finished Greatest Idea Mafia where the Town had irreversibly lost the game after two mislynches, but that is a setup with no inherent balance.

Even still, thinking about it more, two mislynches + two nightkills would automatically put Town in a LyLo situation, and that's if we do two mislynches right off the bat.

But honestly this is all rather pointless and counter-productive since we have no real idea what the setup balance is, and I don't particularly like early setup spec.

That said, I'm going to setup spec some more for a moment. If Infinity is telling the truth, it pretty much confirms there is a Cop in the game.

No it doesn't.

Just like Enablers don't confirm their parent role is in the game.

[Commander Shepard]

Infinity's claim has to be evaluated to see if you believe it on the merits or not.

[Wraith]

Infinity's claim has to be evaluated to see if you believe it on the merits or not.

Frankly why people are suspicious of me for being skeptical of a claim is pretty silly and probably a case of people completely misunderstanding how I express things.

I'm expressing skepticism of the claim, not that it's a confirmed fakeclaim. It means I'm going to keep Infinity under scrutiny until his claim is confirmed true or false.

[shaddowez]

Page 15.

I believe Infinity's miller claim. I've only seen his town game as far as I can recall, and this seems like similar play. It doesn't feel like the type of gambit he would make. I'm liking his interactions as well, so the town read isn't based purely on the claim.

Of the active(ish) players, Wraith is my strongest scum read at the moment. Most of his early posts are useless, including his 58 where he asks for no spam, then posts one liners doubting Infinity's claim, without really trying to follow up. His "stream of consciousness" post in 285 is the first post that has any real substance, and even that's a stretch. He then votes nancy out of his list of suspects, claiming there's "already some footing", even though in Ari's latest VC (251), AC (also one of his listed scum reads) has 4 votes while nancy has 1.

I'm still scum reading Bork, but need to catch up on his replacements. I'm also still scum reading AC, but they haven't done much in the pages I've read so there's nothing for me to change my mind on there.

My town read on Prism is waning a little bit, but it still a town read. I'm also townreading T&B at this point.

TWC I'm having a hard time parsing,

[Tea and Biscuits]

<3 that's good. I should be back into it more. Just been feeling run down recently.

Is it just Sheriff it confuses? What about corner, or invest?
What about when it flips?

Sorry to hear about being run down, I've been feeling sort of similarly lately (not sure if it's based on not getting enough sleep/not eating enough or what but I started working the night shift at work and have been pretty solidly drained since my body just isn't used to it yet). Has Postie talked to you about her reads recently? If so, what do you think about them?

Its been a few days since I recieved a message from her. But at that time she was town reading you and then somehow prism, and then she apologized for the game exploding and said i can just jump back in and dont need to read stuff.
but i'll try to catch up.

im not the best person to hydra with, ive only ever done it onces. and we ended up just talking to each other in the game.
but ill try. i just spend the entire day binge watching rick and morty so i'm not as low as before.

[Tea and Biscuits]

For the record, that's another reason why I believe the miller claim. If by LyLo no cop has died, obviously the play should be for the cop to claim at that point, reveal targets and the sort.

IF THERE IS NO COP, you lynch Infinity.

makes sense. i should stop reading posts backwards before I reply.