Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Spambot]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

Sorry, there is no town role that would even consider targeting a Day 1 Doctor claim, for a second.

Especially when the alternative was a controversial player like Quagmire.

Um, watcher? Is there a dead watcher already or are you being purposefully dense?

Watchers know who their night choice targeted. I am not aware of a role where, contrary to a Watcher, a player would know who targeted their night choice.

I have seen a Watcher role that targets a player and sees who targets that player. I guess it's not too common here.

[Spambot]

Dude, if you are town and we don't lynch you, for the love of god don't use your ability again. The risk/reward odds mean that you are just going to kill a ton of townies.

Not true at all, Spambot. CPR doc can be a very useful role. When used correctly, it's either a protect or a vig kill. Since the claimed doc is now dead, I will probably be acting as though I'm a vig, for all intents and purposes. I hope that you don't think that a vig should never kill for fear of hitting townies?

Ok, that makes more sense. Were you claiming earlier that you'd be using your ability as a doc? That's how I read it, but I can see being wrong there.

Aggressive vigs can be good, but if the player vigging is an idiot than it can be game-losing. Guess how I feel about you vigging people.

[Erg0]

I think I see what you're saying now - I tednd to agree, but it's probably too early to be trying to guess the setup. The number of kills tonight will give us some more information to draw upon for these sorts of theories.

[Toaster Strudel]

We'd be missing a scum kill and have two extra townie kills, which I don't buy.

I'm not sure I get this. Can you elaborate?

[Erg0]

Dude, if you are town and we don't lynch you, for the love of god don't use your ability again. The risk/reward odds mean that you are just going to kill a ton of townies.

Not true at all, Spambot. CPR doc can be a very useful role. When used correctly, it's either a protect or a vig kill. Since the claimed doc is now dead, I will probably be acting as though I'm a vig, for all intents and purposes. I hope that you don't think that a vig should never kill for fear of hitting townies?

Ok, that makes more sense. Were you claiming earlier that you'd be using your ability as a doc? That's how I read it, but I can see being wrong there.

Aggressive vigs can be good, but if the player vigging is an idiot than it can be game-losing. Guess how I feel about you vigging people.

That seems a little harsh - a number of players have already said that they were surprised that the scum didn't kill the claimed doc last night, so the odds of hasdgfas' plan succeeding were decent, and I'd say it was worth the risk given the potential benefit - especially given that I would have continued to try and get Peers lynched if he hadn't been killed.

[Toaster Strudel]

So the scum preferred to kill Yos2 and MoS and didn't even try to kill an un-protected Doctor? Call me baffled.

[vollkan]

Wow..I go to bed and 2 more pages appear.

I am the CPR doc. For those who don't know what it is, let me explain. After all other night actions are resolved, I get to go to my target. If they are alive, I kill them, if they're dead, I bring them back to life. Last night, it took me a long while to decide whether to target Peers or Quag, because I would have been targeting each for a different reason. I had to weigh the likelihood of Peers being the target of a NK, and therefore me wanting to save him, the doctor, against almost definitely NK'ing Quag, who had claimed vanilla townie and was the subject of much discussion during Day 1. I finally decided upon targeting Peers, because I figured that if Peers was lying, he would be a dead scum, and if he was telling the truth, he'd be a likely NK.

When Day 2 began and Peers was alive, I was happy that I had stopped a NK, and thus attempted to explain why without actually claiming. That failed miserably. I figured that either scum or a vig had tried to NK him, or he was NK-immune. There would be no other reason for him being alive. Then Shanba posted, showing that Peers was dead, and I knew that I was in trouble for what I had said about Peers so far in Day 2 and my stupid, stupid, completely idiotic play Day 1.

So, I'm not an information role, this is probably the only town role where I would have a difficult time choosing between Quag and Peers. If I was cop, no question I target Quag. If it's a tracker, I target Quag.

If you still want to lynch me after this, I wouldn't be surprised, because I've played terribly this entire game. But think on it from this perspective, and it does make sense.

Makes sense. From the perspective of a CPR doc, your behaviour is reasonable. I'm kicking myself for not having considered that possibility. The "NK immune" or "targeted for NK" choice you drew made it clear you knew Peers was targeted, but I couldn't conceive of a vig actually killing a claimed doc on N1.

Unvote, Vote: Zu_faul

vollkan, how do you feel about my somewhat different conclusions on zu_Faul from earlier in day 2?

I'd forgotten about your earlier analysis.

Let's see:

Having said that, it's probably time I had a more detailed look at zu_Faul - his infrequent posting has kept him off my radar to an extent until now.

He had relatively few posts on day 1, but in re-reading what he did give us I generally agree with his points. He was pretty consistent throughout the day, and took a similar position on Quag to me. I wasn't a big fan of the Kscope wagon, but zu_Faul at least gave a decent reason for jumping on (other than lurkiness), and did so relatively early in the day before Kscope became the popular/easy lynch. The one thing that gives me pause is his dropping his early suspicion of Sikario8 (now Setael) entirely later in the day - he never really seemed to be happy with him, he just stopped talking about him at some point. There was an FoS on Setael later, I wonder if zu_Faul failed to realise she'd replaced Sikario8?

Interesting to go back to this post and see the beginning of the TS/zu_Faul thing. TS later mentions zu_Faul's "inconsistency", which I think is wholly inaccurate. There may be more background to zu_Faul's TS-vote than there initially appears.

Overall, I don't mind zu_Faul's play - what there is of it, at least. The biggest point against him is his lurkiness, but he's at least posting solid opinions and reasoning when he does post. He's nowhere near the top of my suspect list right now.

The KScope vote stank to me. Zu's reasons in 7 were posting nothing significant (which he was just as guilty of) and wagon-hopping (which zu was also guilty of, and which is not a scum tell). It's true that Kscope was not a popular candidate, but it's still incredibly hypocritical - and his reasons are not good anyway (BW jumping =|= scumtell)

The dropping of Sik is something that I missed. The fact that Zu declares to find Sik "very scummy" and "scummy as hell" (stronger language than he actually used for Kscope) despite having no case suggests that he may have been trying to

appear

to be suspicious of Sik. Interestingly, he does the same thing when he FoSes Setael: "Now THIS is so scummy. FOS: Setael".

I also reject that there appeared to be anything more behind his TS vote. His only reasons given for the vote were her "jumping" on everything. He fails to explain how that is scummy. If he had a case, he ought to have established it.

[Xylthixlm]

I was dropping hints to see who would figure out hasdgfas's role (he'd already outed himself). I'm very suspicious of vollkan for not admitting to seeing it in his PBPA, but maybe he's never seen CPR doc before.

The case for hasdgfas being CPR doc was pretty tight even before he claimed. First, Peers turns up alive. hasdgfas is surprised and concludes that either Peers is kill immune or someone tried to kill him. He says as much in thread. Some time later, Shanba reads the thread, notices that Peers should actually be dead, and retroactively kills him.

There's really no possible way for the claim to be fake. Try to think of a sequence of events that would lead to Peers showing up town, hasdgfas claiming CPR doc, and then Peers actually being dead. Any fake claim attempt would have been screwed up by the mod error.

As for the mod error itself, it's unlikely that Shanba would forget to resolve a normal night kill - but he might forget to have a CPR attempt kill the doc, especially if he was assuming that the scum would target Peers.

Everyone who jumped on hasdfas in the last few pages is

extremely

suspicious. More analysis when I get a chance.

[Xylthixlm]

FoS: Toaster Strudel

for his incredibly opportunistic attempt to redirect suspicion to hasdgfas. hasdgfas isn't scum.

How do you know that? Toaster seems to be pretty aggressive here, and I like that.

I knew that because I had already deduced that he was a CPR doc. That's why I said I was "pretty sure hasdgfas isn't scum" here.

[vollkan]

I was dropping hints to see who would figure out hasdgfas's role (he'd already outed himself). I'm very suspicious of vollkan for not admitting to seeing it in his PBPA, but maybe he's never seen CPR doc before.

I've never been in a game with a CPR doc before. The phrase "CPR Doc" sounded familiar to me (probably from when I read the wiki ages ago when I first started playing) but I frankly didn't even consider the role possible.

I checked off against all the common town power roles (since I was concerned about that possibility), but couldn't justify what he had said from any such perspective.

[Xylthixlm]

Oh yeah. hasdgfas, for future reference... don't try to use CPR doc as a doc. Just don't. It's a vig role with a very minor bonus.

[hasdgfas]

Oh yeah. hasdgfas, for future reference... don't try to use CPR doc as a doc. Just don't. It's a vig role with a very minor bonus.

I figured that using it as a doc on a claimed doc was pretty safe. I would normally use it as a vig, but using it in this case is completely understandable, don't you think?

[Xylthixlm]

vollkan: me explaining my comments on Peers would involve a role claim. Do you want me to do that now?

No, but whatever your role is, all I want to know, is why you didn't target Quagmire, whose alignment we most sorely needed to settle?

What reason could there be to target Peers, who was condemned to die? Who would need to check up anything on Peers?

Interesting. DGB assumes without support that hasdgfas must have an information role.

Certainly not a cop, or a tracker, or anything else I can thinjk of, because they would know that it's a totally wasted investigation.

So does Toaster Strudel.

If hadf is our cop and he investigated the claimed doc last night, I give up. Town has no chance when our best power roles don't know what the hell they're doing.

He also shouldn't have outed himself so obviously, whatever he is. If he is town, I'm officially annoyed.

I'm really hoping he's scum at this point and that we have a real cop out there who will actually be useful.

Setael follows suit.

I have a theory, but I don't know if it's wise to say it at this point. Anything I can think of still leads to hasdf, if protown, having outed himself unnecessarily. So I'm still annoyed.

I don't think hasdf is the lynch for today. I think he's being wagoned to get a full claim out of him. I don't see any way his statements can be reconciled with him being scum.

Then Setael figures it out. This is

exactly

the protown reaction I was looking for. Go Setael!

This whole thing makes very little sense. I can't think of any information role that would give hasdfgas the knowledge that Peers was targeted for a kill and survived. A wathcer could see that he was targeted, but not the type of action that he was targeted for. A cop could see that he was innocent, but not whether he was targeted for a kill.

Erg0 fails to get the memo, and assumes that hasdgfas must be an info role just like DGB and TS did.

First conclusion: Many people

fail

at metagaming Shanba.
Second conclusion: DGB, TS, and Erg0 first assumed that hasdgfas was claiming an info role, and then tried to lynch him

before he could claim

.

FoS: DGB, TS, Erg0

Now I need to figure out which of those three we should lynch first.

[hasdgfas]

Xyl: DGB

is

TS. She used the wrong account to post as DGB

[Xylthixlm]

Oops.

Stupid people with multiple accounts.

[Xylthixlm]

EBWOP:

FoS TS, TS, Erg0

[Toaster Strudel]

The only thing saving Hasdagas' bovine behind is the breadcrumb.

unvote, vote: zu_faul

[Erg0]

This whole thing makes very little sense. I can't think of any information role that would give hasdfgas the knowledge that Peers was targeted for a kill and survived. A wathcer could see that he was targeted, but not the type of action that he was targeted for. A cop could see that he was innocent, but not whether he was targeted for a kill.

Erg0 fails to get the memo, and assumes that hasdgfas must be an info role just like DGB and TS did.

First conclusion: Many people

fail

at metagaming Shanba.
Second conclusion: DGB, TS, and Erg0 first assumed that hasdgfas was claiming an info role, and then tried to lynch him

before he could claim

.

FoS: DGB, TS, Erg0

Um, no. Admittedly I didn't figure it out like I probably should have, but I'm hardly alone in that. At that point it didn't even really matter what the role was - hasdgfas was marked for death either way, be it by lynch or by nightkill.

More importantly, you'll need to meet a higher standard of proof if you're going to accuse me of exactly the opposite of what I explicitly stated I was doing. The vote was made to indicate my desire for hasdgfas to claim, not to lynch him. Did you actually read the rest of that post you quoted, or are you just forcing the facts to fit your theory?

For those that missed it, here's the part that Xyl conveniently excluded from his quote:

I don't think that a claim from hasdfgas would hurt at this point - if it's a good claim, it may prevent us from wasting a lynch. Either way, I think he's going to be dead by sun-up.

Unvote, Vote: hasdfgas

FoS: Xylthixlm

for blatant revisionism.

[Xylthixlm]

FoS: Xylthixlm

for blatant revisionism.

Should I claim?

[Erg0]

Did you see me ask you to?

[Xylthixlm]

Did you see me ask you to?

Mason.

[Erg0]

Forgot you were Albert for a minute. An FoS will do for now, then.

[Xylthixlm]

Post 1694: Bookitty, TS, schizmatized are voting hasdgfas. (3/8 to lynch)
Post 1727: vollkan votes hasdgfas. (4/8)
Post 1729: hasdgfas offers to claim.
Post 1751: Erg0 votes hasdgfas. (5/8)
Post 1753: hasdgfas claims.
Post 1756: Erg0 unvotes. (4/8)
Post 1781: vollkan unvotes. (3/8)
Post 1791: TS unvotes. (2/8)

Erg0 is right about his vote. TS's "I don't even want a claim" and "The only thing saving Hasdagas' bovine behind is the breadcrumb." really reek of scum to me.

unvote Erg0, vote Toaster Strudel

BTW, hasdgfas, should I pronounce your name "has dug fast" or "has dog face"?

[Shanba]

Vote Count:

5: TS

(Panzerjager, Zu_Faul, IH, Battle Mage, Xylthixlm)

3: Zu_Faul

(hasdgfas, vollkan, TS)

2: hasdgfas

(Bookitty, schismatized)

1: Sir Tornado

(JordanA24)

1: JordanA24

(Setael)

1: Battle Mage

(Erg0)

Not Voting:

Spambot, YagamiLight

[hasdgfas]

Xyl: Pronounce it and/or spell it "Cow" as many people call me that. If you really want to pronounce it, it's more the first one though.


Also, I'm not sure why BM has suddenly gone so silent.