Mini 1936: Yume's Cutsie U-Pick (Town Win!)

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Sappho

baereed & chansey post things

[RadiantCowbells]

chansey

[RadiantCowbells]

ALI!

[RadiantCowbells]

Every post must contain an <3 and an ?

[RadiantCowbells]

Just the <3 =]

[RadiantCowbells]

There has to be either an <3 or some sort of smiley in every post?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: The Wood Cutters

I feel like this is how you'd talk to me as scum. As town you've been universally way more... standoffish?

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: The Wood Cutters

I feel like this is how you'd talk to me as scum. As town you've been universally way more... standoffish?

Are we not allowed to have fun or something?

Spoiler: Don't be a

[RadiantCowbells]

Erm.

We are allowed to have fun!

I just think that the amount of fun that you're having is alignment indicative in a scum way

[RadiantCowbells]

Or, rephrasing that

I think that the way that you're talking to me while having fun is scum indicative. Hard to explain what I mean beyond that, standoffish isn't the right word but this is, just... not what I'd expect.
I think it would make more sense for this to be this -not what I'd expect- if you're scum because then you'd be a lot less worried about reading me and shit and more able to just let your hair down and do stuff.

[RadiantCowbells]

I just think that the amount of fun that you're having is alignment indicative in a scum way

To be honest.

I've never been more happy and giddy and just overwhelmed with joy than when Ari handed us our role because it is just perfection incarnate, heaven on earth and I am loving every minute of it. <3

The last time this happened, and in a game with me no less, you were handed a scum role, if you recall.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait what since when can either Nacho or Ginn read me

[RadiantCowbells]

How do you know chansey and baereed aren't my scumfriends

[RadiantCowbells]

CHANSEY AND BAEREED OR ELSE BALLERINA

and yeah I know, I'm sure chansey's been posting up a storm in that scum topic of yours

[RadiantCowbells]

ballerina is sucky nickname u r misty now.

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah

it's plain to see

baby you're beautiful

and there's nothing wrong with me

it's me

i'm a freak

but thanks for lovin' me

cuz you're doing it perfectly

and there might have been a time when i would let you slip away

i wouldn't even try but I think you can save my liiife

[RadiantCowbells]

He's frontmanning for Queen nowadays!

[RadiantCowbells]

No one can, but I don't think that anybody would fill that void better than Adam Lambert has.

[RadiantCowbells]

wtf

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Sappho

[RadiantCowbells]

Get the feeling both of you are on a railway track, playing some sort of predecided routine rather than the actual game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Chansey hydra & Misty hydra, do you guys share a neighbourhood?

[RadiantCowbells]

Thumper what makes you think multiball?

The hood that is apparently for animals.

- Scott

- Scott

-Michael Scott

[RadiantCowbells]

From where I'm standing I'm independently scumreading what little content I've seen from both of your slots and it feels like both of you just already decided that the other was town, which is ???

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, I expected pushback from both of you and I got pushback from neither and it feels like you're just waiting for this to blow over.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, it's possible I've read too far into things. TWC, what exactly is your read on what

Sappho

has done so far?

Yup, that's a strike! Post-restriction violated!

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, this isn't going to fly at all, especially if one of the pair of you is town.

[RadiantCowbells]

(I'm waiting for some sort of explanation for how either of your hydras is townreading the other hydra based on the content that you've provided.)

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you want a full blown RC deathtunnel? Because this is how you got a full blown RC deathtunnel.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok, so which of the heads is townreading chansey and when are they going to talk to me about it?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey the both of you came out with random as fuck townreads on each other and my understanding of both of your scum metas is that you hard defend scumbuddies. This is exactly what I'd expect you to do as scum.

If you're town you will do all of us a favour by taking my scumread on you a lot more seriously and explaining where you are coming from.

Towncred, you were scumreading TWC well before our entrance to the game for things that were especially town indicative from my lover and that concerns me as I feel you should know better given how things went in KH. There's not much I can prod you on there though for this stage of the game, and I'd really rather not tunnel you at a time where nance doesn't have a read on you.

UHH
NO SEE BECAUSE IN KH I TOWNREAD

MASTINA

MOMENTS INTO THE GAME. I TOWNREAD

JAEREED

MOMENTS INTO THE GAME WHILE YOU WERE DEATHTUNNELING BOTH OF THEM.
Don't discredit my read here. Be specific about -exactly- what it is that's giving you the read that you have. I know for a fact that

Mastina

being affable leans scum indicative.

This is Strike 2!
It's a good thing you get 10!

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't have a problem being a commknight. I have been clear about my problem and you've done absolutely nothing about it. If you're town you owe me better.

[RadiantCowbells]

I know for a fact that Mastina being affable leans scum indicative.

I can be a dick as either alignment thankyouverymuch.

I can also be nice as either alignment and this game I have extra-giddy reasons for being all good and whatnot because we are just so wonderfully perfect. <3

That's fine, Misty. But you owe me more than just saying that Chansey is town for a one word 'Boo.'
I can get over the affability: that's the most interesting thing in the game to me, but I don't think it's, like, scumconfirming?
But your mutual townread on Chaereed is exactly what I was looking for and I consider it deathtunnel worthy. This is way, way, way too soon and came out of nowhere.
Especially when, though I consider the reasons very lightweight, I am scumreading Chansey and I am scumreading you guys.

lover is town here, and this is something that I expect to become more transparent to you as the game continues. I'd much rather talk with you about the slots I asked about because I think I also have a decent track record on getting a good read on you and if you're town I think you could help me sort those slots.

I'm not interested in talking about those slots and I'm not interested in you declaring people town 7 pages in.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay, then let's do this another way.

TWC, claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that you're masons with Chaereed or you're scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Can worry about Yume later.

- Scott

Because I'm not willing to let two people with scum metas of hard defending get away with randomly claiming unsupported townreads on each other?

[RadiantCowbells]

This is so bullshit and every party involved has to know it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have asked repeatedly for reasons to be given. I've been informed you're not neighbours, this isn't based on something outside of thread. Is this really how you want things to go down?

I don't get lynched today, or ever.

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you confirmable as town: yes or no?

Do you have a role reason to believe that Chaereed is town: yes or no?

[RadiantCowbells]

You won't need to worry about a posting restriction for very long if you continue going extremely far out of your way to avoid addressing my concerns with your read on Chaereed.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is scum.

Same question to you.

Are you confirmable as town, do you have a role reason to townread TWC?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you don't get to fucking call me scum because I have a very clear problem with something that is very clearly a problem and I feel like if you had an actual reason to townread each other you'd say it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm pretty pissed off at both hydras regardless of alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why don't you take a step back and, instead of claiming,

explain

to me why I should be townreading TWC?

[RadiantCowbells]

anti-town RC is scum!RC.

You know full well that this is not true.

[RadiantCowbells]

No.
You won't talk to me about the slots I actually need help reading this game.
So no. I'm not walking you through in baby steps how this is the same lover from KH when you know I struggled with that all through that fucking game and trying to explain how it was my town lover.
I'm not going to start that exhausting same process of restating how she's town over and over and over again for people to go "but she knows that's her meta and can change it" when we both know full well this is her fucking town game.

Baby me, then. I'll give you reads on other people if you give me the reads that I'm interested in.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I want the real answer, not the "I'm going to push this fucking lynch through with complete conviction even though I'm not actually 100%" answer.

-Cerb

If they are not going to talk to me, which I think is more anti-town than anything I've done, I am going to do that complete conviction 100% shit.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sapphire I wasn't -pushing- you. I was asking for you to explain your reads. I didn't get an answer. I started pushing you. I didn't get an answer. The problem here is not with me.

If you go back through my ISO there's a clear progression from simply being concerned about the issue to pretty fucking frustrated and willing to flip many tables to get the info I wanted.

I don't think I've been anti-town at all this game, unless you count my request for you to claim, which as it happens...

[RadiantCowbells]

@_@

Going off on a tangent. Another tick for the lover town box.

Scum

mastina

goes off on tangents as well...

Lover does this more often as town than scum. Pretty much slapping people in the face with things about her role in her first post.
Not a hard lock at this point, but indicative somewhat.

Is this really AI?

These all keep on ticking those boxes.
Can town lover make a few posts that tick the boxes? Sure.
Can town lover consistently make those posts all through her content? Nope.

I'll go look for this myself, but the implication is that you think that her going off topic and stuff is town indicative?

This is strike 3
RC, you make me sad!

[RadiantCowbells]

I read

Mastina

as hard town for stuff that's not related to anything you've said, FTR. Presumably if she is in fact town I'll see it when they start producing actual content but I haven't seen it now.

Strike 4.
Stahp!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't answer you declaring what I would and would not do as either alignment any more than I can answer

Radical Rat

's declaration that I'm scum because I scare him.

I think that at the very least, you can be town here. I'm still not comfortable with TWC and I feel like you're assigning too much weight to weak stuff and it's possibly they're just 1-way pocketing you.

God Dammit RC!
Imma have to give you a warning for strike #5
*cries*

[RadiantCowbells]

Dude this nickname thing is terrible. It's really hard to play the game when I have to constantly be going back and checking if I used nicknames. It makes it difficult as hell to play the game in real time.

[RadiantCowbells]

224 is a reference to a previous game: I hard townread

Mastina

in KH for some of the stuff they'd none, none of which is present in this game.

Fucking Shit God Damn!
Strike 6!

[RadiantCowbells]

we're at 6!

[RadiantCowbells]

I still feel like my play this game has been super pro-town and I really don't understand your accusation otherwise, and that feels like personal bias about how I'm supposed to approach your TWC read.

[RadiantCowbells]

Chaereed/Rad leantown

DrixRus/S&R Leanscum
TWC Scummy

[RadiantCowbells]

Is that your reads in order?

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think anything that Ruby or Jaune is AI

[RadiantCowbells]

ytf r u townreading me

[RadiantCowbells]

Because I'm used to getting omgussed out the ass for being RC

[RadiantCowbells]

ytf r u townreading me

Honestly?

Because of the way both RRs treated you.

Yes preflip associatives etc. but dealwithit.

Explain this please?

I took a look through my counteRRparts ISO and didn't see anything looking like they were trying to attach themselves to me...

More like he felt like you both had scum approaches to my slot, which ties you both together as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually wait I think that was a Misty post, so that should be she

[RadiantCowbells]

It's annoying that everyone calls me RC anyway so they get away with not having to deal with this nickname stuff T_T

[RadiantCowbells]

Ftr I do find DrixRus asking about my certainty in my read quite odd because my understanding was neither of them respected my reads very much, particularly not hellhound.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because I haven't changed it!

Do you think that's scum indicative, scotty?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: LUV

why do u have to be so ruuude

don't you know i'm human tooo

[RadiantCowbells]

What's my thing?

[RadiantCowbells]

That's different from saying that Drizzit is literally Totus and I auto read them.

And yeah, nicknames make me sad.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that they might be scum but they aren't S&R level or TWC level right now

[RadiantCowbells]

Jae your methods to reading me are completely outdated.

why do u vote someone for reading you with outdated methods

that implies they wrong not they scumbum

[RadiantCowbells]

oh and I refuse to die N1 so

YAY, TIBBERS!

[RadiantCowbells]

why would you say that then

[RadiantCowbells]

also wtf

i'm not used to either you or

sappho

being ridiculous deathtunnelers and you guys are all over the map declaring people 100% scum.

7.
7 infractions.

Wow!

[RadiantCowbells]

whoops 7 already

[RadiantCowbells]

oh and I refuse to die N1 so

YAY, TIBBERS!

Oh my god I so want that to actually do something that would be amazing. <3

It actually doesn't because that's not the trigger command

[RadiantCowbells]

Come vote S&R with me

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Scott&Ramona

Scotty and deedles y u gotta be scum 2day

[RadiantCowbells]

Don't think RC will get anywhere today sadly.

LOL FUCK NO SORRY BUD
there is no way scotty is just totally okay with letting scum!RC waltz away. no.

Also, if Jar Jar's conftownness doesn't pan out, then lynch them. Drizzt Do'urden is one of the people on site who would claim confirming town as scum.
I'm fine with leaving them to their shit for now but if by day 3 or so they can't give a deadline then, y'know.

[RadiantCowbells]

can we lynch S&R instead

[RadiantCowbells]

T_T

Sorry then

but like

that read came out of nowhere

[RadiantCowbells]

I ASKED IF YOU WERE NEIGHBOURS TO GIVE YOU AN OUT IF YOU WERE MASONS THOUGH. OMG.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I had just came around on

Mastina

being town

Yup, strike 8 is here.
Holy shit!

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh shit that's 8

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm sad. I had a feeling for a while this is what things were. I always pick up on masons super quick because I'm super focused on associatives as a player and I'm like NO THAT TOWNREAD ISNT RIGHT SDJFLKSFDJ.

[RadiantCowbells]

T_T
Sorry then
but like
that read came out of nowhere

u and chaereed randomly townreading each other and not giving reasons even when I was like freaking out about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't help pissing you off. You, as masons, know that I was picking up on something real and at least trying to scumhunt. Throw me a bone or something

[RadiantCowbells]

Also... this isn't 3 conftown. This is 4.

One of my day actions is to confirm myself as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

ari pls

[RadiantCowbells]

ok anyway S&R is just scum right?

[RadiantCowbells]

hey no

S&R is in MUCH more danger than

Dioscuri

is

idc if you're masons or not

I have no words...
Strike 9/10

[RadiantCowbells]

OH SHIT THAT'S 9

WELP

OK S&R YOU HAVE 5 MINUTES TO EXPLAIN EXACTLY HOW AND WHEN U BECOME CONFTOWN BECAUSE SHIT IS GOING DOWN PRETTY SOON

[RadiantCowbells]

Nope, it's never too early.

[RadiantCowbells]

If S&R haven't claimed in the next few minutes they won't need to claim

[RadiantCowbells]

Eeny, meeny, miney, burn!

Disintegrate: Luvy & Deedles

[RadiantCowbells]

Playtime!~

[RadiantCowbells]

From where I'm standing I'm independently scumreading what little content I've seen from both of your slots and it feels like both of you just already decided that the other was town, which is ???

Also, I expected pushback from both of you and I got pushback from neither and it feels like you're just waiting for this to blow over.

I think this is pretty understandable; I can't speak for TWC but there was no pushback from me because I didn't have any significant problem with your push and I'm not just going to automatically push back when someone pushes on me - I didn't feel like pushing back and I didn't think that pushing back at that point would be something that would help me sort you. Even though I'm not caught up right now I know from talking to Jae that they have a lockscum read on you that isn't going away short of mod confirmation and that's worrying to me; from my perspective the situation is somewhat flipped - I'm not scumreading what little content I've seen from your slot but it does feel somewhat like you just already decided that we were scum; this isn't a strong feeling but your approach overall here is something that worries me; I will probably have more solid feelings about it as I continue to catch up and follow the trajectory of it, especially after Jae's entrance. I also think that overall your ability to read me is something that I have a little more faith in than I used to given that you've read me correctly 3-4 times now where before it was 0; I'm happy that you responded to my post here and I don't think I have to tell you that if there's anyone on the board here who will treat you fairly regardless of alignment it will be me. Please don't get lost in conf!bias.

U r way behind madam.

[RadiantCowbells]

It was an appropriate reference.

There's a reason I was being appropriately serious about pushing on you.

[RadiantCowbells]

I tried very hard to get you guys to take my push on you seriously.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's okay, I can still night vig you, if I choose not to molten shield tonight

[RadiantCowbells]

Strong and peaceful, wise and brave;
Fighting the fight for the whole world to save.
We the people will ceaselessly strive
To keep our great revolution alive.
Unfurl the banners, look at the screen;
Never before has such glory been seen.

Oceania, Oceania, Oceania, 'tis for thee.
Every deed, every thought 'tis for thee.
Every deed, every thought 'tis for thee.

[RadiantCowbells]

hiii chansey

[RadiantCowbells]

This is not a pagetop

[RadiantCowbells]

@Mastin - Please quote the post and explain exactly how you were certain our slot was scum from a post by Cerb on the first page. I'm setting aside the fact that you expressed the same certainty about at least one other slot and were wrong, as I'm sure you'll have some excuse for why you were really right. It had better be one hell of an explanation since you went so far as to lie and claim masons to try and get us lynched. (You might also explain why you no longer were so sure when we died). Seriously expecting a substantive response to this.

If it helps I was lying about lying about not being sure that you were scum when I did.

I just wanted you to vote with me. I super agree that you asking how strongly I believe in my read was a scumclaim.

[RadiantCowbells]

Cerb you aren't nearly as good as you think you are.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I don't mean that to be mean. I just think it's like a fact and you won't take things so personally if instead of thinking 'WOW THESE GUYS DEATHTUNNELED ME FOR NO REASON ITS NOT FAIR THIS IS PESRONAL' it becomes 'well I was scum and I didn't play well enough to fool people.' A lot of people agreed that you were scum around the same time and Drixx attempting to become confirmed town through setup means is somewhat of a tired trope since Civilization Mafia so I saw it coming a mile away.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also Jae, you've deathtunneled me infinitely more often than nancy has. Don't criticize her ability to read me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Pedit: your claim that a lot of people saw us as scum as the same time is meaningless. It was D1, and people are sheep. Once mastina decided we were scum, it was inevitable that sheep who respect her would follow, because there's literally no reason not to.

I had the same independent conclusion. I was busy dealing with a bunch of unnecessary lies that made something feel like scumpartners, but I definitely thought that you were scum for the same set of posts that Mastina did. Our positions were not based on magic and witchcraft.

Also, RC: did you miss where mastina pointed out the post that got her scumreading us, which was essentially a meaningless post that occurs regardless of my alignment 100% of the time in that situation , where I want to participate but something is confusing me so I need it explained because I don't have time to look it up?

You're conflating

'I would definitely not understand how serious RC's read and would want to clarify it'
and
'I would make exactly that post in exactly that statement in exactly that context as scum.'

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not the specific action, it's how you posted it.

[RadiantCowbells]

The problem is Cerberus & Drixx looking for the problem (them getting scumread) externally rather than internally.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't prove that Mastina correctly scumread you. I know exactly why I scumread you and I stand by it and I think it's perfectly reasonable that Mastina could have done so as well.

Can you link me games where you and Mastina were both town that show a pattern of her incorrectly scumreading you?

[RadiantCowbells]

You're not understanding what I'm saying.

Just because you're not consciously aware that you're playing with a scum mindset, doesn't mean that you aren't, doesn't mean that you won't have tells to pick up on.

You are not a perfect enough liar to be literally indistinguishable. I know that I certainly am not.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're just wrong though. You're dunning kreugering here and thinking that because you don't understand how your scum mentality could creep in, it couldn't have crept in.

Purely based on winrate I am far more successful as scum than you and I acknowledge easily that my posts aren't exactly what they'd be as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like: you don't have to be -lying- or -misrepresenting your thought process deliberately- to be scummy in your posting, or scum would win almost every game.

[RadiantCowbells]

(I mean they do: but still )

[RadiantCowbells]

Sure. The problem though is my posting is scummy to some extent all of the time. :p
And sure, I don't necessarily possess the self awareness to see the scum in my posts, but enough people who know me and my speech and thought patterns far better than you or mastina also fail to see anything out of the ordinary in those posts, so....

Well, I'd say I'm probably better at mafia in general than the vast majority of those people, regardless of my meta knowledge on you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Jae, the difference is that you completely broke down Smith's game and ruined it for me and caused a town loss when my reads were super dead on and in this case you simply refused to change or discuss the read. It should have been really clear that I was coming from a town thought process here given that I was wrong because you guys just kept fucking lying to me about the nature of the out of game connection: why shouldn't I think that you're scum if something's going on that I don't understand because you keep lying about it?

[RadiantCowbells]

Is anyone? You're quite good, in my experience, but then there was that stretch of newbie games we played together and you scum read me in like ... all of them, and I was scum in like one of them. Whatever you're using to read me individually seems broken. I've never met a player who couldn't improve, and I don't believe I've met any who need more improvement than me.

I would like to point out that I did correctly townread you in the one where you sat and rather than get defensive, talked about your situation and were really towny and then you were actually one of my strongest townreads. Not that it mattered since we won in like 10 pages

Also the one we lost where you were lynched Day 3 I wasn't, like, scumreading you? I just had to do something about your slot because it was lurking and I wasn't sure who else would be scum. Unfortunately my reads were very wrong that game because I reevaluated past first impressions but, meh.

I feel really confident in my ability to read you when either you actually sit and talk to me or I have an entire game of content to read you off of, but that rarely seems to happen.
There's a reason I wasn't shooting you D1 here, I wanted more time to sort you.

That said: Cerb isn't lying when he says that he would always question you about how strong your read is. Players he knows lie and gambit as town are going to get that kind of question from him and I'm pretty sure regardless of alignment. I didn't get to the game until it was several pages in, but I found it equally as irritating to try and figure out who was being spoken about in posts. I can see how on day one when there's not a lot to go on, a post like that can look like making an excuse not to participate, but I'm almost 100% certain the same observation and complaint would have come out of Cerb regardless of what our role card said. That was a legitimately irritating thing, especially early on when different people were using different nicknames.

So again: is he going to be unsure of the veracity of my reads? Yes, I think that's universal. That specific feeling is not scum indicative.
Is the nature of his interest in the veracity of my reads going to differ depending on his alignment? Yes. Will that show itself in game in various ways? Yes.
It's not something that I can specifically point to but the feeling I got when reading that was that he wasn't trying to sort me or my target, he was just checking off a mental box.
Sort of like gauging the situation and seeing what was up without an interest in sorting either of us, and that felt scummy.

So yeah, I see having a "hrm... gonna watch that slot, that could be SAI" but I'm not sure it merits a death tunnel?

Do I agree with Mastina's deathtunnel? Not necessarily. Do I think that first impressions can be extremely strong at catching people that otherwise are gonna fly under the radar? Fuck yes.
So it's like I understand where you fall but I also feel like it's not unreasonable for Mastina to deathtunnel if you don't do anything to change that read if she heavily scumreads one thing.

He knows that. I promise he does even if his posts make you think he doesn't. He just gets frustrated when people miss the objectively rationally scummy stuff and pop a scum read on him for something that is NAI for him.

From the way I look at the game, the objectively rationally scummy stuff is really hard to read because it's often hard to tell who is bad at mafia or wrong and who is scum.
I've many, many times been burned lynching someone because something seemed ridiculously opportunistic and they end up flipping scum.
So I feel like in general that method of playing the game doesn't work too well and sometimes if there's something opportunistic + a read: there's shit to be done there.
I understand why he thinks NAI because he plays the game very differently, but it's because the entire set of what I look for is outside of what he would probably consider AI.

Probably so. But Cerb still will express frustration with something he feels is stupid and a waste of time 100 times out of 100. So then the question is ... was it just that he made a post complaining, or some specific phrasing in that post?

I covered this somewhere up above but my feeling was that you weren't trying to sort me or my opponent and were more like dispassionately testing the waters somehow.
I really don't feel like Cerb would ever have used that specific phrasing because the point of that would rarely be strictly information if he was town.
Of course, he'll use it as town in the future to prove me wrong, but