Micro 768: Geriatric Grey Flag Nightless - Game Over

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Korts

Chainsaw defense.

Hmmm can you elaborate? Am I the perpetrator of this chainsaw defense, or are you justifying your vote with it? And do you mean the PolarBoy or the Tarhalindur version of the chainsaw defense?

I agree that this questioning feels superficial.

1) Putting a serious spin on a jovial RVS vote

2) Obviously he wasn't accusing you of being the perpetrator. How would that even have been possible in this scenario?

3) It's obvious which version he meant. Did this really need to be asked?

VOTE: Jingle

Much obliged.

Follows up his serious questioning with a jokey-looking vote?

Serious votes time.

VOTE: Korts

Assuming I’m right there, reck is probably town. I don’t see two scum jumping so blatantly for such an obvious piece of bait. I do find Korts’ line of questioning incredibly superficial, to the point where it overshadows recks lack of RVS vote.

You may all begin groveling at my clearly superior ability now. I’ll see you tomorrow.

I like this apart from the

'reck is probably town'

bit. I disagree with the general idea that scum wouldn't jump on the same wagon early on; it happens all the time

because

no-one thinks they would.

Sigh. Jingle, if you're going to play the look-at-me-I'm-scum-but-scum-wouldn't-say-that reaction test game, let people weigh in and allow the situation to develop before you jump in with your grand analysis.

"Superficial" questioning, really? What exactly were you expecting in response? I asked you to confirm that yes, you are claiming a scumtell on yourself, which you did, and now you're shocked that your wagon took off. Pull your head out of yourself, dude.

By the way - if Reck's "probably town," why mention his lack of RVS vote? What does that indicate, exactly?

Bolded

- this is a good point.

Italics

- Your questioning was pointless as I stated above.

Underlined

- The fact I could answer this myself means this is probably another pointless question.

I honestly keep going back to Jingle's VT claim and feeling uneasy about it! It just feels wrong. Their play otherwise is alright so far but nothing stellar.

I like Reck and Korts thus far!

Athena, why is getting a game moving towny, and how do you think he is doing so? I don't see as much forward movement as you seem to in their posts.

Bolded

- It feels wrong, but not enough to make you switch from your RVS vote? What exactly is so wrong with it anyway?

Italics

- Why?

Underlined

- You don't see forward movement? All the discussion in the game has stemmed from Jingle's opening posts.



UNVOTE:

VOTE: Korts

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:

I don't think Jingle's VT claim is alignment indicative. In this setup, what else could he possibly have complained?

But I really don't like this post. It's prefaced as 'serious votes time' but the reasoning doesn't really make much sense.

Serious votes time.

VOTE: Korts

Assuming I’m right there, reck is probably town. I don’t see two scum jumping so blatantly for such an obvious piece of bait. I do find Korts’ line of questioning incredibly superficial, to the point where it overshadows recks lack of RVS vote.

If it's such an obvious piece of bait, why do you assume that any scum would have jumped on it in the first place?

Is it bad to have 'superficial questioning' when not many others questions have been asked in the game yet?

Also, what is bad about Reck not voting during RVS?

It's not a question of what's good or bad, but what is scummy, and superficial questioning is scummy.

Spoiler:

That said, Reck's 13 also looked pretty tongue in cheek to me so Korts's follow on was unexpected and felt out of place.

I see Korts's post(s) as similarly tongue in cheek. Why do you think that Korts sounds more out of place than Reck?

I like Jingle's posting so far – he's getting the game moving.

VOTE: Keychain
Why no vote?

In what ways has Jingle got the game moving? I see Jingle making 1 RVS post, 1 discussion-ny post and 1 'serious vote' with dubious reasoning.
Why is it scummy to not be voting atm?

Korts' is more out of place because it was subsequent to his serious questioning.

You asked earlier is it bad to have superficial questioning early on, so I ask you is it bad to have dubious reasoning early on?

Spoiler:

I am liking Reck for town at the moment. Townlean on Aristophanes as well.

In particular, I feel that Reck's 20 has genuine intent to probe at Keychain's play.

Explain this Ari townread to me.

[Korts]

1) Putting a serious spin on a jovial RVS vote

2) Obviously he wasn't accusing you of being the perpetrator. How would that even have been possible in this scenario?

3) It's obvious which version he meant. Did this really need to be asked?

1) I don't see why people are hearing a serious tone. Deadpan, maybe. I deliberately took the scumtell claim at face value to increase its potential to generate useful discussion.

2) There was no subject included in his two-word justification for the vote. Justifications for votes are usually meant to implicate the target of the vote, and me being the perpetrator would have made as much sense (i.e. zero) as him.

3) Sure, yeah, but I wanted to give him an opportunity to subvert expectations. That whole line of questioning was to get him to explicitly commit to the scum claim.

By the way - if Reck's "probably town," why mention his lack of RVS vote? What does that indicate, exactly?

Underlined

- The fact I could answer this myself means this is probably another pointless question.

Go ahead and answer it, then.

[Jingle]

Spoiler: Korts

Sigh. Jingle, if you're going to play the look-at-me-I'm-scum-but-scum-wouldn't-say-that reaction test game, let people weigh in and allow the situation to develop before you jump in with your grand analysis.

"Superficial" questioning, really? What exactly were you expecting in response? I asked you to confirm that yes, you are claiming a scumtell on yourself, which you did, and now you're shocked that your wagon took off. Pull your head out of yourself, dude.

By the way - if Reck's "probably town," why mention his lack of RVS vote? What does that indicate, exactly?

Pshh. Why?

I had a goal. The goal has been satisfied. Is there really any further benefit to maintaining an RVS gambit past the point where RVS ends? I say no. I say, now that we have two competing wagons both based on actual reasoning, thin though it may be, there is no point to saying that either of my scumclaims were intended as anything more than jumping off points by which I could analyze people. People can still analyze my behavior, and in fact I welcome them to. But intentionally holding back at this point in the game gains me nothing, as either alignment.

And, to be perfectly clear in case anyone missed it, I scumclaimed twice in my opening post. You, being an '08 player almost certainly understood the reference to the second but chose to comment only on the first bit, meaning it's not the scumclaiming itself that you found suspicious, but rather the . This tells me that you understood the reasoning behind the post, the inherent reasoning, but still chose to jump onto my wagon because of a "scumclaim" as soon as there was support to it. Why then, when it is fairly obvious, at least to me, that you know my behavior at this point in the thread is almost entirely null?

Because, it's an easy push. You look like you're doing something. You saw the reck vote and took that as confirmation that the game was going to be swinging in that direction and let yourself be pulled along. As someone who is aware of the gambit and town, you would be far more likely to sit back and wait for the situation to develop. You would know, as town, that reactions were going to be more natural without someone who had clearly figured out what was going on muddying the waters. Your mouth is saying one thing, and your intentions are clearly elsewhere. Hence, scum.

3) Sure, yeah, but I wanted to give him an opportunity to subvert expectations. That whole line of questioning was to get him to explicitly commit to the scum claim.

What possible gain does town you have from this? Is there a reaction that makes me town? Scum? Or is this just more empty fluff trying to look like you're scumhunting when you already knew exactly what I was doing and wanted to look proactive?

19, 20, 21, and 24 are goodposting.

Why is it scummy to not be voting atm?

The setup. Town's biggest advantages here are the infrequent nightkills and the higher than normal usefulness of associative tells. People not voting or not interacting are neutering the associatives, and that's unacceptable.

Luca, while he is putting things in my mouth, is largely correct. As an explanation to the reck is probably town bit, the associative there is not that both of them are voting for me. The associative is that Korts appears to be piling on in direct response to reck voting for me. Especially given daytalk, there is absolutely no reason for Korts scum to tie himself to reck scum that early over such a trivial thing. If either of them flips scum, it's a fairly safe bet at this point in the game that the other is town, more so than anyone else in the game.

Also, Luca may be scum.

[CultOfAthena]

Athena, why is getting a game moving towny, and how do you think he is doing so? I don't see as much forward movement as you seem to in their posts.

Well, to be pedantic for a moment I never called it towny – I said I liked it. Perhaps especially under geriatric rules, it would be easy to just let the game stagnate, or to just wait until something else pops up for you to respond to rather than starting something yourself. To already be getting into the game on page one is something I enjoy.

This is scumtacular too.
- Emptyreading someone for something non-alignment indicative.
- Voting someone for low hanging fruit.

Low-hanging fruit? I'm voting keychain to get her to respond – you know, using your vote as a tool, and all that cliché such and such.

In what ways has Jingle got the game moving? I see Jingle making 1 RVS post, 1 discussion-ny post and 1 'serious vote' with dubious reasoning.

Why is it scummy to not be voting atm?

To be pedantic again, I didn't say that it's scummy to not be voting – I asked Keychain why she wasn't voting. As for why it

could

be scummy to not vote, in general scum are more self-conscious than townies. They care more about their appearance and avoiding any sort of conflict. I don't see an explanation for not casting a vote at this stage in the game other than trying to stay out of conflict, hence my asking the question, to see if there's some motivation that I'm missing.

I am liking Reck for town at the moment. Townlean on Aristophanes as well.

Why do you think Aristo is town?

[CultOfAthena]

3) Sure, yeah, but I wanted to give him an opportunity to subvert expectations. That whole line of questioning was to get him to explicitly commit to the scum claim.

Why? What's the end goal of that?

Luca, while he is putting things in my mouth, is largely correct. As an explanation to the reck is probably town bit, the associative there is not that both of them are voting for me. The associative is that Korts appears to be piling on in direct response to reck voting for me. Especially given daytalk, there is absolutely no reason for Korts scum to tie himself to reck scum that early over such a trivial thing. If either of them flips scum, it's a fairly safe bet at this point in the game that the other is town, more so than anyone else in the game.

This is weak. If anything, this would be the time in the game where scum might associate themselves the closest, given the volativity of wagons and the ease of dissociating yourself from your partner in choosing which early game wagon to follow. A shift in opinion at this stage in the game is to be expected, meaning scum could easily partner up now only to shift away later – a large shift in opinion later in the game would be subject to far more scrutiny.

Also, Luca may be scum.

Mind explaining this?

[Korts]

Because, it's an easy push. You look like you're doing something. You saw the reck vote and took that as confirmation that the game was going to be swinging in that direction and let yourself be pulled along. As someone who is aware of the gambit and town, you would be far more likely to sit back and wait for the situation to develop. You would know, as town, that reactions were going to be more natural without someone who had clearly figured out what was going on muddying the waters. Your mouth is saying one thing, and your intentions are clearly elsewhere. Hence, scum.

Yeah nah you're kinda overthinking it. You think I'm being calculated and actually scumhunting at this point. No, I'm just stirring shit up, and you gave the apropos.

Props on the NK-immune miller vig reference, though.

The associative is that Korts appears to be piling on in direct response to reck voting for me.

Haha no I was piling on in response to your confirmation, Reck just happened to post before me.

I do agree with your Luca suspicion.

[Korts]

Why? What's the end goal of that?

I dunno, to see if a wagon develops, I guess?

Now that I think of it, I wonder if Reck would have jumped on if I didn't deadpan the initial joke to force a commitment from Jingle.

[Luca Blight]

1) Putting a serious spin on a jovial RVS vote

2) Obviously he wasn't accusing you of being the perpetrator. How would that even have been possible in this scenario?

3) It's obvious which version he meant. Did this really need to be asked?

1) I don't see why people are hearing a serious tone. Deadpan, maybe. I deliberately took the scumtell claim at face value to increase its potential to generate useful discussion.

2) There was no subject included in his two-word justification for the vote. Justifications for votes are usually meant to implicate the target of the vote, and me being the perpetrator would have made as much sense (i.e. zero) as him.

3) Sure, yeah, but I wanted to give him an opportunity to subvert expectations. That whole line of questioning was to get him to explicitly commit to the scum claim.

1) I'm not sure what you expected would happen other than a continuation of the RVS jesting. It feels to me like you were deliberately setting up a situation whereby you could vote him for the apparent scumclaim, but then excuse yourself by saying you were just reaction-testing yourself.

2) Context is important here. As I said, there is no way, even from an RVS standpoint, that you could be accused of a chainsaw defence there.

3) How would you have responded had he subverted expectations?

By the way - if Reck's "probably town," why mention his lack of RVS vote? What does that indicate, exactly?

Underlined

- The fact I could answer this myself means this is probably another pointless question.

Go ahead and answer it, then.

It's showing both sides of the coin. Jingle townreads him based on his flawed reasoning that you're probably not partners, but also shows the side of Reck's play he hasn't liked so far. Just because you townread someone, it doesn't mean that read has to be locked down forever and you can't make small reference points to refer back to later on. I think everyone does this to some degree.

[Luca Blight]

Also, Luca may be scum.

Of course I may be; I wouldn't expect anyone to trust me implicitly based on a post or two, but what particularly makes you want to point this out here?

I do agree with your Luca suspicion.

Why are sheeping this opinion rather than raising it yourself earlier?

[insanity018]

It's not a question of what's good or bad, but what is scummy, and superficial questioning is scummy.

I definitely agree that superficial questioning is generally scummy. But to me, timing and context is relevant. I don't see superficial questioning when the game is barely out of RVS stage (which is where Korts's posts were) to be particularly alignment indicative.

Speaking of superficiality, I think that CultofAthena's posts are the most scummy atm.

You asked earlier is it bad to have superficial questioning early on, so I ask you is it bad to have dubious reasoning early on?

What I find bad is that Jingle starts his post by saying 'serious votes time' and then follows up with a vote based on reasons that are dubious at best. Saying 'serious votes time' feels like he's trying to signal 'look, I'm being serious! I'm scumhunting!' but the scumhunting and reasoning isn't actually there.

--

My slight townread on Aristophanes comes here

I honestly keep going back to Jingle's VT claim and feeling uneasy about it! It just feels wrong. Their play otherwise is alright so far but nothing stellar.

I like Reck and Korts thus far!

Athena, why is getting a game moving towny, and how do you think he is doing so? I don't see as much forward movement as you seem to in their posts

.

This is exactly what I was thinking and I liked the intent to challenge players from Aristophanes.

[insanity018]

VOTE: CultofAthena

I think she is scum. Her posts may seem lengthy but their content is extremely superficial.

Athena asks questions. But they are very empty questions, they don't have any heat or intent behind them and she doesn't lend any of her own opinions.

Also, Luca may be scum.

Mind explaining this?

I am liking Reck for town at the moment. Townlean on Aristophanes as well.

Why do you think Aristo is town?

And then are these -

Athena, why is getting a game moving towny, and how do you think he is doing so? I don't see as much forward movement as you seem to in their posts.

Well, to be pedantic for a moment I never called it towny – I said I liked it. Perhaps especially under geriatric rules, it would be easy to just let the game stagnate, or to just wait until something else pops up for you to respond to rather than starting something yourself. To already be getting into the game on page one is something I enjoy.

You says you like something, but then you sat it's not alignment indicative The aim of the Town is to find scum, not find the most enjoyable player. So, basically Athena is posting 'opinions' while managing to not commit to a town or scum read either way. Alternately, she could be backtracking because she's seen that people (eg me and Aristophanes) don't agree with her reasoning.

Luca, while he is putting things in my mouth, is largely correct. As an explanation to the reck is probably town bit, the associative there is not that both of them are voting for me. The associative is that Korts appears to be piling on in direct response to reck voting for me. Especially given daytalk, there is absolutely no reason for Korts scum to tie himself to reck scum that early over such a trivial thing. If either of them flips scum, it's a fairly safe bet at this point in the game that the other is town, more so than anyone else in the game.

This is weak. If anything, this would be the time in the game where scum might associate themselves the closest, given the volativity of wagons and the ease of dissociating yourself from your partner in choosing which early game wagon to follow. A shift in opinion at this stage in the game is to be expected, meaning scum could easily partner up now only to shift away later – a large shift in opinion later in the game would be subject to far more scrutiny.

Meaningless discussion about Mafia theory that doesn't contribute anything to solving the game. Athena doesn't even try to make an argument as to whether Korts or Reck are scum and whether they fit into her theory.

[CultOfAthena]

VOTE: CultofAthena

I think she is scum. Her posts may seem lengthy but their content is extremely superficial.

I get this accusation a lot. What seems to you to be superficial is actually how I form reads. I hate to do self-meta, but you could look at Open 702 if you'd like an example of my play as town.

Athena asks questions. But they are very empty questions, they don't have any heat or intent behind them and she doesn't lend any of her own opinions.

Also, Luca may be scum.

Mind explaining this?

I am liking Reck for town at the moment. Townlean on Aristophanes as well.

Why do you think Aristo is town?

How do these not have intent behind them? I'm trying to get people to reveal their thought processes – trying to get a feel for if what they're saying makes sense or not, feels forced or not, et cetera.

Meaningless discussion about Mafia theory that doesn't contribute anything to solving the game. Athena doesn't even try to make an argument as to whether Korts or Reck are scum and whether they fit into her theory.

It does contribute something towards solving the game – I think that anyone going off of what Jingle said would be lead to false conclusions, so I pointed that out. What I was saying wasn't even mainly about Korts and Reck, it was about Jingle. I'm mainly looking to see how Jingle responds. If, for example, he continues to push his point and his reasoning doesn't feel genuine, that begs further questions about his motivations and why he might be pushing that narrative. If he responds and his thought process feels genuine, that indicates to me that he's probably town, even if I disagree with what he's saying – that kind of examinating of the game seems more likely to come from town than to be fabricated by scum, to me.

Even though I start the game without posting a lot of reads, I assure you I'm still attempting to figure the game out. If you'd like a read, however, I think you're probably town for this – in my limited experience scum seem happy to leave me be more often than town, and your push seems entirely genuine.

[insanity018]

Well, you're a bit defensive.

How do these not have intent behind them? I'm trying to get people to reveal their thought processes – trying to get a feel for if what they're saying makes sense or not, feels forced or not, et cetera.

I say that you have no intent because you're only asking players to clarify themselves. You're not challenging anyone or putting pressure on. You are also not sharing any of your thought processes. Compare -
You: "Mind explaining why Luca may be scum?"
Intent: "I don't have any problems with Luca's posts. His posts all sound genuine. Can you explain why Luca is scum?"

You ask empty questions where you avoid challenging anyone too hard, because that might put attention back onto you. That's what I mean by lack of intent.

Even though I start the game without posting a lot of reads, I assure you I'm still attempting to figure the game out. If you'd like a read, however, I think you're probably town for this – in my limited experience scum seem happy to leave me be more often than town, and your push seems entirely genuine.

This reads to me as "Oh no, insanity is scumreading me. Reads will make insanity happier. Let's give insanity a townread."

[Aristophanes]

I dont often make more then 3 posts a day so I dont mind wasting kne on this.

Just finished hosting Christmas dinner so I'm not going to respond to anything tonight. I've read most of the posts this game this far though.

If there are any more questions for me toss them my way.

Reck literally stated most of my thoughts already and I townread him even more strongly than before.

Uhh...thats all for now though. Drinking and sleep are on the schedule tonight!

[Jingle]

Of course I may be; I wouldn't expect anyone to trust me implicitly based on a post or two, but what particularly makes you want to point this out here?

Because I'd like to know one way or another, and I think posting that will make it more likely for your alignment to become apparent sooner than later because of reasons. To answer the related question of why from CoA, or rather, to fail to answer it without ignoring it, I'd rather wait to discuss it for a few more days.

On a mostly unrelated note, I recognize your name, but your gameplay is off from what I have associated with you in my memory. Which would you say is the most likely reason for this? A. A large playstyle change over the last couple of years. B. A conflation of two players in the long time between games. Or C. An intentional subversion of meta/ change of playstyle for this game? It probably doesn't matter much, and I'll get around to the meta work eventually, but I'd appreciate your two cents before I do.

It does contribute something towards solving the game – I think that anyone going off of what Jingle said would be lead to false conclusions, so I pointed that out. What I was saying wasn't even mainly about Korts and Reck, it was about Jingle. I'm mainly looking to see how Jingle responds. If, for example, he continues to push his point and his reasoning doesn't feel genuine, that begs further questions about his motivations and why he might be pushing that narrative. If he responds and his thought process feels genuine, that indicates to me that he's probably town, even if I disagree with what he's saying – that kind of examinating of the game seems more likely to come from town than to be fabricated by scum, to me.

I wasn't aware this warranted a response, but if you'd like one I can provide it. I considered that series of logical turns, and dismissed it as unlikely.

First, that style of play (subversion of reads via suboptimal play) is a risky strategy that only really works if you can rely on someone in the game to point it out. As such, from both your join date and your lack of obvious connections to the other players, it seems unlikely you would be comfortable enough making such a gamble. This is of course predicated on the belief you are not an alt, which is as yet unfounded, but can be assumed D1 (In the case you are an alt, there is a roughly 60% chance you are mastina, btw, which means you are incredibly unlikely to have revealed yourself for a gambit given A. an inflated sense of my usefulness to town that would lead to me be a priority lynch and a powerful desire to keep alts hidden). Insanity, by their own admission, is returning from hiatus. This means they likely don't have the clout to influence their scumteam to try such a thing when the risk and reward is unknown, especially given the strength of reck's personality.

Second, that inception comes from a style of player who is overly concerned with the long term plan, not the immediacy of the thread. Luca from what I remember of him is not that style of player. Ari, likewise, relies far more on a 'gut and interaction' style than allows for that. Reck wouldn't go for that style of play, either. He's a Majiffy school of mafia player, not a mastina one. That means he's more interested in reacting to the thread and all around being a powerful voice than crafting an early narrative to bank iffy townreads in the endgame. Keychain was in a game where she was my scumbuddy and watched me dance around the gallows convincingly for pretty much the entire time as one of if not her first scumgames before winning LYLO. It was, if it is not too arrogant of me to say so, one of the examples of my better scumgames. Thus, I assume she vastly overestimates my skill level and will be extremely wary of me regardless of her alignment, meaning she was unlikely to be ringleader to such a plan in this case, regardless of capability or inclination. Ray is definitely capable of that level and style of thought, but again, if my experience with him holds true he is probably too busy IRL to have put something like that together, convinced his scumbuddies, and implemented it so soon into the game. This leaves Korts, who is at the moment my primary concern, but whose play reminds me more closely of TSQ than mastina's meaning he likely relies far more on his charisma and ability to react to the thread than complicated plans. I would honestly be shocked if Korts-scum had started considering a nightkill target at this point in the game.

Of course, there remains the chance that one or more of my analyses are flawed and a couple of them are predicated on the knowledge of me-town, but the funny thing about mafia is that when I make sweeping grand statements on D1, I can still change my mind should new information come to light.

Yeah nah you're kinda overthinking it. You think I'm being calculated and actually scumhunting at this point. No, I'm just stirring shit up, and you gave the apropos.

Props on the NK-immune miller vig reference, though.

And here comes the dirty little secret about Jingle. I overthink everything, I'm just also really good at hiding it behind a veneer of levity and/or seeming insanity. The even darker truth? That doesn't mean I'm wrong. I do think I'm doing a pretty good job of peeling away the layers and getting inside your head, given your agreement on Luca, so I'm going to keep on with the current course.

Whatever else may come, I've decided I very much enjoy playing with you, and I'm looking forward to this game even more, if possible.

[RayFrost]

If you don't mind sharing what name I know you by, Jingle, it'd be appreciated. If not, tally-ho. I'd like to note that I haven't actually been too busy to post. I waited.

Currently of the opinion that the stuff between jingle and korts is interestingly game-starting but otherwise uninformative. Good on yous for doing the thing.

While CultOfAthena says this is meant to "pressure" keychain into voting, the entire post does a great job of not actually contributing to the ongoing game-starting discussion (what do you have against helping push things forward?) and expresses no real opinions. Pressure voting someone without applying any pressure is not actually pressure voting. Not having anything to read as scummy as fine, but faking it is suspicious.

Insanity covered other CultOfAthena-related suspicious things rather well, in my opinion.

I dislike the specificity of what Jingle calls goodposting as it seems to revolve around opinions that match his own. Also feels like an easy way to blanket not-really-respond to the posts. I dislike the fact Jingle answers a question for CultOfAthena.

The answering-for-each-other being done Luca-for-Jingle, and Jingle-for-Athena makes me twitch. I dislike twitching. I am noting that I am twitching here for future reference.

Luca's posting involves a lot of putting words into other people's mouths and doesn't feel like a lot of words coming out of his own mouth and this is questionable and worthy of suspicion.

There is nothing else that I consider noteworthy in the past page and a half of content.

[Luca Blight]

Of course I may be; I wouldn't expect anyone to trust me implicitly based on a post or two, but what particularly makes you want to point this out here?

Because I'd like to know one way or another, and I think posting that will make it more likely for your alignment to become apparent sooner than later because of reasons. To answer the related question of why from CoA, or rather, to fail to answer it without ignoring it, I'd rather wait to discuss it for a few more days.

On a mostly unrelated note, I recognize your name, but your gameplay is off from what I have associated with you in my memory. Which would you say is the most likely reason for this? A. A large playstyle change over the last couple of years. B. A conflation of two players in the long time between games. Or C. An intentional subversion of meta/ change of playstyle for this game? It probably doesn't matter much, and I'll get around to the meta work eventually, but I'd appreciate your two cents before I do

This is my first Geriatric game so I'm certainly adjusting my playstyle to fit in with that. I had a very long break from the site so I'm sure my play will have naturally changed as a result of that too.

What kind of gameplay did you have associated with me, out of interest?

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

If you don't mind sharing what name I know you by, Jingle, it'd be appreciated. If not, tally-ho. I'd like to note that I haven't actually been too busy to post. I waited.

Currently of the opinion that the stuff between jingle and korts is interestingly game-starting but otherwise uninformative. Good on yous for doing the thing.

While CultOfAthena says this is meant to "pressure" keychain into voting, the entire post does a great job of not actually contributing to the ongoing game-starting discussion (what do you have against helping push things forward?) and expresses no real opinions. Pressure voting someone without applying any pressure is not actually pressure voting. Not having anything to read as scummy as fine, but faking it is suspicious.

Insanity covered other CultOfAthena-related suspicious things rather well, in my opinion.

I dislike the specificity of what Jingle calls goodposting as it seems to revolve around opinions that match his own. Also feels like an easy way to blanket not-really-respond to the posts. I dislike the fact Jingle answers a question for CultOfAthena.

The answering-for-each-other being done Luca-for-Jingle, and Jingle-for-Athena makes me twitch. I dislike twitching. I am noting that I am twitching here for future reference.

Luca's posting involves a lot of putting words into other people's mouths and doesn't feel like a lot of words coming out of his own mouth and this is questionable and worthy of suspicion.

There is nothing else that I consider noteworthy in the past page and a half of content.

I agree with most of this post, but the bolded is nonsense.

The only time I put words in someone else's mouth was when I was specifically asked to by Korts.

[Korts]

Just popping in right now, but I thought I'd respond to anything aimed at me while I'm here.

Not sure if Jingle wants any answers, I don't feel a need to continue that thread myself right now. Ping me if I missed something!

3) Sure, yeah, but I wanted to give him an opportunity to subvert expectations. That whole line of questioning was to get him to explicitly commit to the scum claim.

Why? What's the end goal of that?

I dunno, just, an easy first wagon to get the town going, I guess. And then of course the competing wagon of those who think the first is bullshit. Huh, looks like it all worked out.

I do agree with your Luca suspicion.

Why are sheeping this opinion rather than raising it yourself earlier?

I mean, I haven't really dug into your post yet, and I didn't want to just OMGUS without a coherent reason, but since Jingle had indicated his suspicion too, I wanted to vocalize something as well so that I don't forget to look into it.

Nice of you to immediately twist this into another reason I must be scum, though. Good hustle.

[Luca Blight]

You're the one twisting what I said into a reason why you must be scum.

I still don't see why Jingle voicing his opinion should influence whether you share your own. You didn't want to OMGUS me, but then it's suddenly Ok to once someone else has voiced their own suspicion (even though that player happens to be the one you're voting)?

Also, you no longer want to

'continue the thread'

regarding Jingle, yet you're still sitting on your Jingle vote. What exactly is your read on him right now?

[Korts]

You're the one twisting what I said into a reason why you must be scum.

Doesn't sheeping have negative implications?

I still don't see why Jingle voicing his opinion should influence whether you share your own. You didn't want to OMGUS me, but then it's suddenly Ok to once someone else has voiced their own suspicion (even though that player happens to be the one you're voting)?

There wasn't much consideration in it, to be honest. But you're right, I should be more strategic about my scumhunting.

Consider this an invitation to pool our resources, Jingle. I'll be making a proper analysis later, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on Luca.

Also, you no longer want to

'continue the thread'

regarding Jingle, yet you're still sitting on your Jingle vote. What exactly is your read on him right now?

Oh yeah, I wanted to unvote.

Thanks for the reminder.

VOTE: unvote

I'll be back in a couple hours, expect deeper thought then.

[Lord Gurgi]

Day One continues. Five to lynch.

Vote Count

Korts

[8 Posts] (2) -

Jingle, Luca Blight

CultOfAthena

[10 Posts] (2) -

RayFrost, insanity018

xRECKONERx

[10 Posts] (1) -

Aristophanes

Jingle

[9 Posts] (1) -

, xRECKONERx

Keychain

[10 Posts] (1) -

CultOfAthena

RayFrost

[9 Posts] (0) -

None

Aristophanes

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

Luca Blight

[7 Posts] (0) -

None

insanity018

[10 Posts] (0) -

None

None

(2) -

Keychain, Korts

Current Deadline:

None.

Impending Prods

Keychain

Post Count Refresh:

(expired on 2017-12-28 00:00:01).

[Aristophanes]

Reck literally stated most of my thoughts already and I townread him even more strongly than before.

I should clarify that this is posts 20 and 21 specifically. My thoughts on Athena and Keychain were basically exactly this at that point in the game.

I don't think Jingle's VT claim is alignment indicative. In this setup, what else could he possibly have complained?

That's the skeeviest part of it! We all should be playing as VT in theory, so why claim anything? It makes no sense and that makes me uneasy.
Also, I like the rest of this and the proceeding posts. You get a townlean! Now this may be because I am wean and assume those who think similarly to me are of the same alignment, but I believe you're also got good questioning and a forward motion to them, like you're actually sorting people, which is why I am happy with it.

I honestly keep going back to Jingle's VT claim and feeling uneasy about it! It just feels wrong. Their play otherwise is alright so far but nothing stellar.

I like Reck and Korts thus far!

Athena, why is getting a game moving towny, and how do you think he is doing so? I don't see as much forward movement as you seem to in their posts.

Bolded

- It feels wrong, but not enough to make you switch from your RVS vote? What exactly is so wrong with it anyway?

Italics

- Why?

Underlined

- You don't see forward movement? All the discussion in the game has stemmed from Jingle's opening posts.

Snipped post, obviously.

I didn't move my vote because IIRC that would have been L-1 and it was far too early for that. I don't think anyone here would lolhammer but I also didn't feel it was egregious enough to warrant that so early in the game.

See note on Reck above. His posts feel right and I like his points.
Korts had, at this point, made 4 posts. A joke vote at me, some fun with the chainsaw post, a Reck sheep, and the LAMIST(???) post at Jingle. thought they looked pretty good and the joking didn't feel forced, not like he was clinging to something on Jingle that wasn't really there. I am willing to rethink my stance, and I like your post (the rest of the one this is snipped from). I don't see it being enough for you to vote him yet though.

So they made a post and people are running with discussion on it. That is not them making the discussion nor having any sort of hand in it, it merely revolves around their post. If they were a little more central to the discussion that would be one thing, but their posts themselves go nowhere.

28-30 I am tor on and will go back to look at later. I don't dislike them on a surface level but something is keeping me from calling them towny and i'm not sure what it is atm.

[Keychain]

Responses for things people have addressed to me

Spoiler: Athena 18

I like Jingle's posting so far – he's getting the game moving.

VOTE: Keychain
Why no vote?

This is scumtacular too.
- Emptyreading someone for something non-alignment indicative.
- Voting someone for low hanging fruit.

Low-hanging fruit? I'm voting keychain to get her to respond – you know, using your vote as a tool, and all that cliché such and such.

Why did you think that just asking the question wouldn't get a response? The assumption is you're voting something you at least find partially scummy, not just to show you mean serious business with your kind of arbitrary question.

At that point I was interested in voting Jingle to follow up on my post, but that would have put him to L-1, so I didn't.

Spoiler: Reck 20

- Jingle openly states that his thing was a "bait", not an RVS joke. Why do you believe it to be the opposite?

VOTE: Korts

Chainsaw defense.

Hmmm can you elaborate? Am I the perpetrator of this chainsaw defense, or are you justifying your vote with it? And do you mean the PolarBoy or the Tarhalindur version of the chainsaw defense?

No, I'm performing a Tarhalindur chainsaw defense by defending Ari from you by voting you. Likely to win over his good graces so that he'll influence the game in my favor with his almighty skittles powers.

VOTE: Luca Blight

OMGUS

This looked like a joke to me. It may be the phrase "almighty skittles powers" that's skewing me in that direction He said it was bait afterwards, but explaining something in hindsight like that after it got him voted is not particularly convincing to me.

- Why is it early to say "I don't see two scum jumping on the same vote early"? When is it not too early?

I think someone else has already said this - I don't think it's too early to say that, no. I think it's too early to say "I think Korts is scum and I don't see two scum jumping on the same vote early therefore Reck is town". Like the extra extrapolation to you being town is what I think is too early. Your final question of this section is very much in the spirit of "how many grains of sand makes a pile?". I would say before a scum flip is probably too early, but that's just me.

- The extra add-on feels like you buttering up Jingle to be scum while also banking on a push on Korts. Hard not to feel like an early hedging of bets.

I see scummy things in both of them. Do you expect me to only have one scumread at a time?

Spoiler: insanity 23

That said, Reck's 13 also looked pretty tongue in cheek to me so Korts's follow on was unexpected and felt out of place.

I see Korts's post(s) as similarly tongue in cheek. Why do you think that Korts sounds more out of place than Reck?

I'm referring to post 14, which was only two words. This could be because I tend to attribute more seriousness to votes that are closer to lynch - it was L-2 and looked like it was taking seriously the reasoning Reck had given.

VOTE: CultOfAthena

While I don't want to rehash insanity's post 36, I agree with most of what they've said.

I disagree that a lack of transparency as described in 36 is somehow scum indicative, but being pedantic over details to the point of nitpicking tends to divert town away from scumhunting and immediately using self meta to excuse superficial questioning is scummy.