Team Mafia 2018: Magical Stories ~Game Over~

[sheepsaysmeep]

pagetop!!!!!!!!!

[davesaz]

It's a GF claim, not a claim from a GF - it's beneficial to a scum GF to be investigated, therefore lessening options is scum beneficial.

To rephrase your question, why am I potentially helping a scum GF by making it more likely they'll be investigated and found inno?
It's universally accepted that town millers claim to help town by telling cops (if they exist) to not waste an action. Any help it gives scum is incidental and unavoidable.
Why are you asking me basic mafia theory questions in a team game?
My team was unanimous that this is the right approach. Release exactly the right amount of information to help town know I'm town while denying scum any additional info.

[davesaz]

194

and my team relies on me to win? im not sure what else i could have meant.

Well, all teams rely on that.
But which games are harder to win and therefore more valuable?

Is Creature paying attention to this game? I can't remember if that was asked.

[davesaz]

BTW 194 doesn't point to one of your posts, nor to anything remotely related to what I asked.

[Thor665]

Umm, you should be well aware what role madness means.

Everyone

is

potentially

valuable.

But granted, yeah "it's to prevent rope-carrying morons from thinking it's a lie because it has too few words" is more accurate.
Far too many people go "ooh, something's missing so he's hiding something".

Part of town's job is to identify themselves to their fellow town.
I give truthful answers religiously, but usually only enough to verify they are truthful.
I know you're well aware of this. Kindly move on.

So to clarify - the bold is exactly why you claimed "extra".

Also, what am I supposed to be well aware of?
You just got done admitting my team didn't have institutional knowledge of your meta...?

As far as the GF point - personally I would feel more comfortable about it if, after that claim, you had acted like it was your job to be obnoxious town.
Instead it kind of feels like a coast.
I would presume your team would agree with me on that point too - as the point of the claim is to then make it so you're read on actions.

[davesaz]

Let's stipulate I understand your position.
I think too much focus on it can be harmful.
Would you care to discuss something else? Pick a player any player.
Well, maybe not the image poster, I really have nothing to say there.

[davesaz]

JJH > Boon > Sheep is the lynch order I would keep.

Many pages have gone past.
Is this still the list you would blast?

[Katsuki]

UNVOTE, VOTE: ZACH

[sheepsaysmeep]

BTW 194 doesn't point to one of your posts, nor to anything remotely related to what I asked.

1094 oops

[sheepsaysmeep]

194

and my team relies on me to win? im not sure what else i could have meant.

Well, all teams rely on that.
But which games are harder to win and therefore more valuable?

Is Creature paying attention to this game? I can't remember if that was asked.

1st part - im not stupid
2nd part - creature has multiple games to attend to and does not feel well, so he hasnt been following this
i could ask him to look at this if necessary

[davesaz]

I hate "I might turn around on Sheep"

it sounds so forced

That's because it is and I'm running low on people who could be scum by poe

I don't trust poe as a reason for sorting people d1.
If you're at that level then you have way too many town reads.
This is often an indicator of scum who can't figure out which town they can safely push.
I know that because it's usually my downfall as scum.

[davesaz]

2nd part - creature has multiple games to attend to and does not feel well, so he hasnt been following this
i could ask him to look at this if necessary

It's not so much that we want him to look at it.
It's that we have an opinion on what kind of game he'd prefer to follow, given a choice.

[davesaz]

Thanks for the revised post link. I'll run that by my team.

[Zachstralkita]

UNVOTE, VOTE: ZACH

[Fenchurch]

also, Fen isn't even really pushing Zach...just voting Zach.

I only push reads I feel really sure on. As I said, I've been reconsidering. If you're gonna ask why I haven't unvoted if I'm 'not really sure'; I only unvote if there is someone else I wanna move that vote to.

And that aside, I like it when people give reasons when they push. I find constant 'VOTE X' 'VOTE Y' posts a real turn-off. Playstyles, I guess.

Meta is relevant if the reasons you think a player is scummy are things that they always do.

I'm having a hard reconciling this stance with this

So giga/katyusha thinks Zach is town, you know they have a strong meta tell of Zach scum, and you're still okay with voting Zach?

I dunno. I don't like to rely entirely on someone else's read above my own, especially when I don't know their own alignment, I don't know the reasoning behind it, and I only have one example of her accuracy. But it's something; I'm mulling over.

you're still ignoring a supposed strong scum meta tell of Zach for your own read, despite putting stock in strong scum meta tells (and I've seen you do some meta-diving of your own)

When did I say I put stock in strong scum meta tells? I said that I use meta; I use it to try and avoid voting people for things that I would find scummy, but which it turns out they always do anyway as town.

In general, I don't put much stock in reads from other players, pretty much every game I've been in has multiple players insisting that some other player they know can't possibly scum; and usually at least one of them is wrong. Also relating to that...

Now that I know what the tell is I'm going to exploit the shit out of it.

This makes me feel somewhat less like I wanna put blind faith in Katyusha.

[Fro99er]

When did I say I put stock in strong scum meta tells?

You just quoted my quote of it

364

[Thor665]

Let's stipulate I understand your position.
I think too much focus on it can be harmful.
Would you care to discuss something else? Pick a player any player.
Well, maybe not the image poster, I really have nothing to say there.

Jjh and explain what you're doing to make your Sheep vote anything more than a vanity - because with the flow of this game you need to lay out some slam bash casing or you need to sell to people willing to sheep and you're doing neither which makes it, currently, a sideline vote.
Like, even if you think he's scum you could be voting a secondary read and having your vote be useful and applicable for VCA at this stage instead of hiding.

And jjh - address the wagon - town or scum on him, why?

[Fenchurch]

You just quoted my quote of it

364

Ah - I see how you can read it like you have, but what I was trying to say in that post was the same thing that I did just now. That if someone is doing something you think is "scummy", but it turns out they always do that scummy thing, even in their town games, then meta is important to tell you that.

[Fro99er]

ahhhhhh

UNVOTE:

[Fro99er]

yeah totally read it the other way

[Fro99er]

fen can you do me a solid and help me understand your Zach case more?

I reread your case a few times in your read list wall and while I get it, it just feels light for this point of the game. It basically boils down to "he isn't scumhunting"

[Zachstralkita]

ahhhhhh

UNVOTE:

OH MY FUcking god

[davesaz]

1. My sheep vote is an attempt at behavior modification. Probably won't work, but it also contributes to part 2.

2. The sheep interaction is a sorting mechanism and needs to run its course.

3. Good suggestion. Would you be up for mirroring it by looking at the Zach wagon?

[Fenchurch]

It basically boils down to "he isn't scumhunting"

"He isn't scumhunting" is probably the crux of most cases I've ever made

Scumhunting is the one thing that town have to do and scum have to fake. And then the reason why I'm feeling less strong on it, is that Zach kinda implied that he might not scumhunt that much as town either, at least not in any way that I would consider scumhunting.

I've been over it already, but I still think that one point in particular was a scummy action. If you see other players move votes off someone, do you automatically decide 'oh that player must be town'? Without having seen any evidence for it yourself - would you declare them to be seeming town? The fact that Zach was willing to shows that he actually doesn't care about figuring out who is town. Even if you find scumhunting hard, that doesn't seem a thought process town would have.

I also think his whole OMGUS section against Sleepy and then me, continually failed to give any reason why either of us is actually scum is pretty bad. Eventually he comes up with "I don't think she's trying to find scum." 10 pages later, still with no evidence to back it up.

[Fro99er]

Zach why is Sleepy scum?