In post 2074, Kmd4390 wrote:Eddie, you asked me about scummy things Implosion has done. I really should dig deeper on him anyway because my gut is telling me he has a decent chance of being scum here. Far from my strongest scum read, but enough to be worth looking into. So...
-I hate to keep going back to this, but I didn't like the way he reacted to Mulch's whole mason claim thing. It seemed like he was trying to fake an easy opinion by shrugging it off as "well that's just Mulch". See where he said:
Implosion wrote:This is something he has explicitly stated he just does sometimes.
And Mulch answered with simply "I have?". It feels like he saw what happened and decided what stance to take without thinking critically about it. And then after that, he said that Mulch was after town cred. That makes no sense to me considering Mulch's line of reasoning was even if he (Mulch) flips scum, we should still treat Tora as confirmed town. It just doesn't feel like Implosion is actively sorting here.
I don't see how my opinion on this is an "easy opinion"; it's somewhat nuanced, specifically that I don't think that it's alignment-indicative for Mulch but I can understand why some people would think it is, given that it could easily be alignment-indicative for a random player off the street.
I don't think I ever said that Mulch is after town cred; what I said is that *if* he's scum, then that's his likely motivation. Basically it's just a thing that he's probably perfectly capable of faking for towncred, not necessarily that he is. I might have said that I leaned that way at some point but like, I really think that thing is just not worth spending time reading in to.
Mulch's line of reasoning being "even if I flip scum you should still treat tora as confirmed town" means absolutely jack shit. The moment Mulch flips scum, everything he's said of that nature is fully WIFOM and not worth trying to read deeply in to unless you know Mulch very very well. I don't understand why you put so much emphasis on that line, honestly. I've ignored it because it seems vacuous to me. It doesn't mitigate that Mulch could have been doing it for town cred.
I think you're misinterpreting my stance here slightly as thinking that Mulch most likely did it for towncred; my stance is simply that it's something completely within his ability to do as town and as scum, and that probabilistic arguments (i.e. "he's done it in X towngames and only Y scumgames") are inherently less reliable in team mafia because it's a natural time to break meta, and that therefore it's null.
-This:
Implosion wrote:But it's not really accurate to say that I'm scumreading anyone right now. I'm pretty reluctant these days to actually scumread anyone early d1 unless something sort of falls into place, which it does sometimes but not always. I mostly just accumulate townreads.
And I know he's not the only one guilty of it (see spiff), but it really felt like he wanted to fly under the radar for a while. And not just in the sense of activity. But more...just not stirring up controversy. Not getting his hands dirty. Not giving anyone a chance to say "man that was a really scummy push".
I feel like I've made moves this game that had the potential to get on many peoples' nerves (mulch, chara, cabd maybe, kagami maybe, that one post about Firebringer). Feel free to keep pushing this against me if I don't commit to more solid reads as the game prolongs, but keep in mind we are a week into the game. My reads aren't that great yet (I actually had a pretty solid amount of confidence in them like 3-4 days ago and then Mulch muddied everything up again), and I tend to have relatively weaker (as in, less accurate) reads on d1 anyway, I think. Though that might not be true anymore thinking about it. I can point to certain games where I had a lot of confidence in a scumread on d1, but I can also point to games where I didn't that are similar to this (shaziro mafia i think fits that). And a lot of those games I act similarly to this, not really ruffling feathers actively because there aren't a ton of feathers I strongly want to ruffle.
-His confidence in me being town just feels unnaturally strong. I mean, he did say it was because of my stance on teammates helping, so it's not like he hasn't given a reason but it seems like he's coasting on that as a reason and for me to be his "strongest townread", "unquestionably town", and "blatantly obvtown" over it just doesn't feel right. I feel weird having issues with town reads on me because it keeps coming up and I don't usually do that to this extent, but some of them just feel out of place and Implosion's fits that category just like Kagami's does. Cheet and maybe Spiff I think just have the right read for the wrong reasons. These two don't feel natural.
I'm happy to justify all the reasons why I have you as town at this point. It's not just the thing it was earlier. But it seems like mostly a waste of time since neither you nor me is under pressure right now.
