Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.In post 1350, Ranmaru wrote:When did your read on Postie change and why?
This was the fist time I posted this thought ITT.In post 324, LicketyQuickety wrote:
OK, so why do you, Postie, have an unpopular opinion?In post 323, Postie wrote:Unpopular opinion: I think Gamma's town.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Dunnstral he/himGoodfellashe/him
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I think I said something like this too without specifying rcIn post 1351, LicketyQuickety wrote:IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Ooh I forgot to reply to this. My point was (remembering I hadn't yet reached the big big you-tsq discussion about it) it looked like the kind of vote that wasn't made naturally at the time from things that actually happened, but the kind of one that arises from reading someone's ISO to find a reason to vote them, and seeing something bad without actually seeing it in context, yknow? Having seen the big discussion with you and tsq I understand it a bit more and I'm not exactly interested in retreading that argument.In post 735, Gamma Emerald wrote:@Davsto I haven't done any ISO runs of people other than Eddie Sauce Chilly and LQ
Also not switching since I want to play with RanmaruHey here's the bad unvote I mentioned earlier.
And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.In post 745, LicketyQuickety wrote:I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.
Again, it seems odd he's touting this as the "main reason" when it wasn't even mentioned at first. It's like he realised that his initial reason didn't look good enough and wouldn't allow him to keep resisting voting until day end so had to come up with something else to save face.In post 749, LicketyQuickety wrote:
It has more to do with the fact that there is like zero resistance to this wagon on Chill. That is what I am looking at. Ending day this early is also time wasted.In post 748, Thestatusquo wrote:If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?
I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.
The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.
If that's what you meant than carry on.
oh good something frm the rc book on how to play mafia. Seriously this is ridiculous because, not does it (a) give you an excuse to give fewer reads (making you much harder to read) and (b) mean that your good reads are just flat out unable to be seen so actually a lot of information would be lost on your death, its reasoning is completely flawed. That is, if you did get nightkilled, we wouldn't assume Eddie incriminated - if anything, we'd assume wifom going on and not lynch Eddie.In post 769, Postie wrote:I have a readlist but I'd rather not share it for now because if I get nightkilled I don't want there to be ambiguity about why it happened. I don't want to give Eddie an out.
Alternatively, I'd be happy to share my reads once I've placed all my nulls because then I can die having done my job. Not that I'm saying my reads are likely to be super duper amazingly accurate or anything, but dying before having made a guess for the scumteam I can be happy with just sucks.
I was sceptical at first but I'm now pretty happy with the meta read on nsg, although I'd really prefer she just, yknow, contributed a lot more. Might push and encourage her throughout the day.In post 789, Postie wrote:I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.
Anyway, I'm now getting to the point where reading every post is giving me an awful sense of deja vu - I think I've reached the limit of usefulness of this exercise for me, as fun as it was.-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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I'm thinking the team is [LQ > Eddie > Marquis].
LQ:
LQ's post is force in his #888. LQ tries to shade my replace in his #829 Shea asked him if he why he didn't think my catchup was genuine, and responds saying that he laughed at me misrepresenting him, and fence sits his read on me. Yet, this has nothing to do with his point that I had no 'unique' reads. Seems like a slight back track of his original position. LQ throws shade at Screen in his #1058, and while null scum reading him in his #999. Yet, LQ doesn't join the wagon on Screen, he avoids it while poking at him. He then votes Postie, who he read as null in his #999, but has not stated a read change nor did he have any progression. My assumption is that he saw my case on her, and took the opportunity to place his vote on Postie to A) Draw associative between her and him, and B) To stay off the ScreenTOWN wagon. LQ's #1299 shows that he prefers to muddy the connection between himself and Postie, to drag her down in his eventual lynch.
Eddie:
Eddie's #1315 Shows he scumreads CES for hammering. Then, he votes Marquis in his #1320 while scumreading myself for no reason at all. In his #1336 he states I'm trying to draw off pressure from Postie (LQ v Postie), which contradicts his initial read of CES MARQ RAN. It shows that he has no genuine reads here, and is applying the same tactic LQ is, muddying his connection with myself to drag me down in his eventual lynch.
Marquis:
Marquis enters voting North following Postie, with weak reasoning in his #24. This is in response to Postie asking why he voted North, not a good response. Marquis states he is having a hard time getting into the game in his#381 but lurks for quite a bit and doesn't try to get back into it, which he admits to in #631 . He talks about who is scum on his wagon, LQ in his #455. He is sidelining while not really pushing anything, like in his #877 and then unvotes in his #879 and nothing else. He has progression for LQ but he never follows up with it. In general, he seems more interested in getting a good position in town, fails and gets wagoned, and then lurks out to survive and dodge the lynch. Then he comes in late with with 1226 voting LQ. It is badly timed, it does not seem genuine.
LQ and Eddie are both trying to muddy connections between universal town reads, since they seem to have no other option, or little options available to them. Today, we lynch either LQ or Eddie. Then the other the next day.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
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Yeah you did and if you're gonna try and argue that it's AI again we're gonna have a bad timeIn post 1353, Dunnstral wrote:
I think I said something like this too without specifying rcIn post 1351, LicketyQuickety wrote:IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.
Ftr RC has only been weighing in heavily today and just before deadline yesterday
Also@LQsomeone has said exactly you're saying about town-me before without me even being hydra'd or teamed with RC:
In post 12, Fire Assassin wrote:I was pretty sure you were town, but some things sounded so manipulative rc like lol.
I mean, I said it in the game, it was just weird to see from you.Discourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Davsto He/HimFarce of HabitHe/Him
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What makes you think that Postie could be bussing? What about her push suggests that to you?In post 1299, LicketyQuickety wrote:VOTE: Eddie
Postie is either bussing or has a good read here in my estimation. Someone who is good at looking at wagons can analyze Eddie's wagon.
Not at all. There are many more factors affecting a player's play than their alignment - the type of game, the size, their exact role in the game, not to mention the myriad of real life factors. In fact, him being a newb in terms of games played only exaggerates that - that is, a newb who is getting to grips is much more likely to play unpredictably. If you can't show me that he consistently plays like this as scum and consistently plays not like this as town, then meta alone is not enough for a vote from me.In post 1348, Postie wrote:
I mean it does make his meta when the games are literally night and day and he's still a newb in terms of the amount of games he's played.In post 1139, Davsto wrote:Yo postie your post is great and all but one town and one scum game does not a meta make. Could I ask for (less thorough of course) examples from more town and scum games just to be sure this isn't just lucky and coincidental examples?
I could probably show you examples where I had games where I suddenly played really badly as town despite playing well earlier. If I can find Eddie towngames where he plays more like this (which I'm gonna have a lil search for tonight), it doesn't matter why he's suddenly playing like this, it shows that it isn't necessarily certain-scum meta therefore it's not fully valid. It may make him more likely to be scum, but not for certain.Like what do you think the explanation for a sudden inability to make clear reads progressions and pushes when someone has been shown to be capable of it as town is, if not that they're scum (especially when it lines up with previous play as scum)? That they just suddenly became bad at the game? Because I mean it's obviously not that he's struggling to keep up or produce content in general like Tchill was since Eddie has been literally wallposting at points.
Ooh, one more game. Exciting.But fine:
viewtopic.php?f=100&t=61168&user_select%5B%5D=20256
This was Eddie's Team Mafia 2015 game, where he was town. Note the lack of fluff, how he engages with others, and how he was more than capable of giving clear and detailed reasoning.
I guess I can find more if it's super important to get you to vote Eddie.
I'm gonna do my own EddieFenix meta-analysis to get my own opinion rather than just skimming the linked games like I'm gonna guess every other player has.-
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EddieFenix Goon
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Postie Any/allJack of All TradesAny/all
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Okay I'm holding you to this and I expect great things >=[In post 1359, Davsto wrote:I'm gonna do my own EddieFenix meta-analysis to get my own opinion
The fate of town rests on citizens like you >=[
frow ny faceDiscourse is fleeting, but junk mail is forever.-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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EddieFenix Goon
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When I finally have a good sounding board to bounce things off of that I've been waiting to discuss things with, I start to see that I'm either A.) Nuts or B.) Not Nuts.In post 1344, Ranmaru wrote:Why did your read on CES change?
@LQ1:
Spoiler:
@LQ2
Spoiler:
Marquis's case is pretty easy. This is white flag. If I can balance taking care of a child and irl bullocks while also: reading up on the game, being interactive and also playing along side my team for games, I'd not funnel in excuses left right and center in my ISO for why I can't be active and THEN, right at the end of the day, spam the thread like crazy with posts. For example...
Spoiler:
@NSG
Spoiler:
@AD:
Spoiler:
Reason's for Llmarble being dead and Postie being Scum
Spoiler:-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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I asked CES because I wanted to know his reasoning. It may not be the same reasoning that I had for considering his entrance post bad. CES was being reserved, and his interactions didn't really seem like he was suspecting him, just being along for the ride. You state why I was not feeling Marquis, I was null reading him at the time. If I agree with something in the catch up, that is all there is to it. I'm not going to try to regurgitate things that have already been said. I don't see how my catch up did nothing, I commented on things that stuck out to me, and I voted suspects. I interacted that way with Postie because I was town reading her then. CES's #870 shows he was simply on Llama to needle him, since he didn't want to be the seventh vote on Marquis. I was reading TM 2012, seeing him confident stating his scum team over and over again. Here, not as much. (He linked the game to me a while ago, which got me interested in TM)-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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Agreed. He was obvtown, simple as that.In post 1302, LicketyQuickety wrote:
It's absolute Bull Shit to say Llama was killed because they were looking at Eddie. Like seriously...In post 1301, Postie wrote:VOTE: EddieFenix
Obv. Also don't think it's a coincidence that the only other person expressing serious interest in this lynch was nightkilled. Me dead + Llamarble alive would've probably been more dangerous for Eddie than the other way round.
Seeing as I townread Ran yeah I'm questioning this a little. Marquis vote is good though.In post 1320, EddieFenix wrote:Stop the presses, Mastina hath deep dove my earhole (more or less CAPS LOCKED in my PT lol)
Ran and Marquis are 100%, dead to rights, scum. No need to question it.
UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Marquis
VOTE: Marquis
Can mastina explain why? And has mastina played with Ranmaru? I know both are older players but I'm not sure, and I don't care to do that type of meta dive when not alt-huntingIn post 1343, EddieFenix wrote:In post 1340, Ranmaru wrote:
What do you mean by this?In post 1336, EddieFenix wrote:Trying to draw away from Postie.Ranmaru wrote:Fair enough. Later on, yes. LQ, I want a full reads list from you too.
Kinda obvious you're trying to draw heat away from someone.Ranmaru wrote:LQ you are focusing a lot on Postie right now. I want a reads list.
Hmmm.... Shade.... I don't need it. It's quite cold where I am atm. The sun would be nice.Postie wrote:It sure is convienient for you that your townread on me magically reversed itself to exactly line up with the kind of argument you needed to appeal to LQ
However, I also bring word from Mastina. From Town to OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE
Town:
ActionDan
Dunnstral
Davsto
northsidegal
Thestatusquo
Lycanfire
Town/Null
LicketyQuickety
Cogito Ergo Sum
Null
Gamma Emerald
Scum/Null
Postie
OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE
Marquis
Ranmaru
We lynch the last 2 with fire, we win as town cause those are the 2 that are obv scum to her.
Also wasn't I in your townpile before, what happened?Why not continue voting Marquis?
I am pretty on board with what you're sayin about Eddie but I'm not going to condemn him just yet, as I see it mastina is just going insane in his team PT and her trusts herIn post 1364, Ranmaru wrote:[LQ > Eddie > Marquis > | AD > Dunn | NSG > CES > Davsto | Lycan > Postie > Gamma > TSQ > Ranmaru]
Forgot to add Postie. I think we have this game in the bag. Seeing LQ and Eddie make desperate plays seems like we have cornered them.
And honestly while I don't like how Lycan has been reading me maybe I've been tunneled on him a bit based on that.<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”-
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Lycanfire Mafia Scum
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MathBlade He/HimTechnical SupportHe/Him
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ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I think RC accusing me of tunneling is ridiculous. I voted tchill and was making cases on LQ as another top scum read. I interacted on many other points of discussion day 1, including posting a full read list and being willing to move elsewhere at DL if people weren't feeling either of the two wagons that I thought were most likely to be scum.
If RC wants to scum read me because I said I think he's bad at mafia, all the more power to him, but can he at least come up with some reasons that are even plausible?tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Thestatusquo He/HimSheaHe/Him
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I need to think about the flips because a part of what made LQ scum was the tchill associations. Not all of it, but some part. I think my votes going to end up there but I want to reread postie's eddie case and think about what the tchill flip means for LQ before I do.tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner-
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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Ranmaru Jack of All Trades
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