Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Thestatusquo]

Same with gamma to be honest here, why would the counter at this point in the game ALSO be on scum if CES is scum. Are you suggesting that scum is trying to save their buddy by voting another buddy?

Please don't ignore the wagon on me.

[Gamma Emerald]

From my point of view I also think a reasonable high-level summary of (part of) nsg's case is that my play has been focused on getting what I see as the right lynches and not on unimportant stuff like town reads on people that are in no danger of getting lynched. Certain people might find that scummy but that's essentially just my playstyle. I also had fully intended to give a full reads list on Sunday when we got home from our Cardiff trip but that trip ended up being another 3 hours longer than I was expecting so I would've ended up talking about several things she's complained I haven't talked about if not for happenstance.

So what you're saying is you're getting scumread for having different priorities?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think if CES flips scum it pretty much clears:
NSG, Lycanfire, davsto.

Lycan is less important because I was already heavily town reading them, but a ces scum flip would cause me to drastically rethink my NSG read because this doesn't feel like bussing on her part.

I think the people who would look bad with a ces scum flip are:
Ranmaru and Dunn.

CES town looks bad for: Me, NSG, Gamma.

Why does CES!town look bad for NSG? Also Ran being scum with CES is off the table for me pretty much.

[Thestatusquo]

My vote on CES, for those who keep saying its "SUS" is because we're at deadline and I thought his reaction to the NSG was horrific. It didn't respond to any of her points. It's main contention was that NSG was simply misunderstanding CES, but I don't think that's fair. It went point by point to make it seem like it was big and full of line by line retorts but it wasn't. It was mainly just repeating the same thing over and over and again and accusing NSG of being disingenuous when I really didn't think she was.

Also, anyone who is saying I had a firm town read on him before is DELIBERATELY mistating what I have said before.

I've had him as null town, because of meta, but that meta does not include responses like this. That's not ces town play, and we're at deadline.

If there were a viable wagon on Dunn I would join it, but its not there.

[Thestatusquo]

I think if CES flips scum it pretty much clears:
NSG, Lycanfire, davsto.

Lycan is less important because I was already heavily town reading them, but a ces scum flip would cause me to drastically rethink my NSG read because this doesn't feel like bussing on her part.

I think the people who would look bad with a ces scum flip are:
Ranmaru and Dunn.

CES town looks bad for: Me, NSG, Gamma.

Why does CES!town look bad for NSG? Also Ran being scum with CES is off the table for me pretty much.

Because NSG was the third vote on the wagon, mostly. If ces was the chosen misslynch for scum today thats exactly where I would expect her to be.

Actually now that I think about it CES town also looks really bad for Marquis, because he's the wagon that was on the block before that and NSGs big case essentially took him off the table. If CES is town NSG/Marquis could easily be a scum team.

Why don't you think ran can be scum with ces?

[Thestatusquo]

Like he's clearly doing EVERYthing in his power to stop this wagon and putting votes every place he can possibly think of, imploring town to join him. Town he was shading earlier in the day with the same level of certainty he's now shading me.

I had him as a high town read but his play today has not been town at all.

Today he has declared that the following people are all scum:
Me
You
ActionDan
Marquis
Dunn
LQ
CES

He might have called NSG scum too. I'm not remembering.

He also voted ces at the beginning of the wagon and then hopped off as it began to gain steam and then started attacking the people on it.

Like its textbook how I would expect a buddy to interact. Distancing, then trying to stop the wagon, but never outright defending ces.

[Gamma Emerald]

My vote on CES, for those who keep saying its "SUS" is because we're at deadline and I thought his reaction to the NSG was horrific. It didn't respond to any of her points. It's main contention was that NSG was simply misunderstanding CES, but I don't think that's fair. It went point by point to make it seem like it was big and full of line by line retorts but it wasn't. It was mainly just repeating the same thing over and over and again and accusing NSG of being disingenuous when I really didn't think she was.

Also, anyone who is saying I had a firm town read on him before is DELIBERATELY mistating what I have said before.

I've had him as null town, because of meta, but that meta does not include responses like this. That's not ces town play, and we're at deadline.

If there were a viable wagon on Dunn I would join it, but its not there.

I feel your vote was valid initially, but he actually responded very intensively and in full, so it was just a knee-jerk reaction

[Thestatusquo]

CES reacted validly and in full? Can you talk about that? I think thats exactly what I'm saying. He reacted with a LOT of stuff, but I felt like all of that stuff was mostly nonsense.

Can you tell me what about it you liked?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So what you're saying is you're getting scumread for having different priorities?

It does feel like a large part of it, yeah.

It went point by point to make it seem like it was big and full of line by line retorts but it wasn't. It was mainly just repeating the same thing over and over and again and accusing NSG of being disingenuous when I really didn't think she was.

I also invite you to discuss the 2 examples I mentioned in #3182.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think if CES flips scum it pretty much clears:
NSG, Lycanfire, davsto.

Lycan is less important because I was already heavily town reading them, but a ces scum flip would cause me to drastically rethink my NSG read because this doesn't feel like bussing on her part.

I think the people who would look bad with a ces scum flip are:
Ranmaru and Dunn.

CES town looks bad for: Me, NSG, Gamma.

Why does CES!town look bad for NSG? Also Ran being scum with CES is off the table for me pretty much.

Because NSG was the third vote on the wagon, mostly. If ces was the chosen misslynch for scum today thats exactly where I would expect her to be.

Actually now that I think about it CES town also looks really bad for Marquis, because he's the wagon that was on the block before that and NSGs big case essentially took him off the table. If CES is town NSG/Marquis could easily be a scum team.

Why don't you think ran can be scum with ces?

Look at what you wrote in the next post. If Ran was scum why not just coast off the bus?

[Thestatusquo]

Because I don't think coasting off the bus works, and we're getting to the point in the game where I think scum are less likely to bus. 3 mislynches means they're very close to a win. 2 plus 1 scum means they're 1 lynch away from a loss.

It's also not a play he could make if he felt like the third on their team was in danger of being lynched. So if the scum team is Dunn/Ran/Ces he would have to go the mat to save CES because there's no way that Dunn is living to end game.

Coincidentally, if ces flips scum I think thats exactly who the scum team is.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It was mainly just repeating the same thing over and over and again and accusing NSG of being disingenuous when I really didn't think she was.

I think I repeat myself twice, both at relevant points. The vast majority of my reply posts is providing context and explaining where I was coming from. This is not in any way accurate.

[Gamma Emerald]

CES reacted validly and in full? Can you talk about that? I think thats exactly what I'm saying. He reacted with a LOT of stuff, but I felt like all of that stuff was mostly nonsense.

Can you tell me what about it you liked?

It's that it doesn't feel like a desperate recovery attempt and more like an actual explanation of what the situation is and what is wrong with the case.

[Thestatusquo]

It was mainly just repeating the same thing over and over and again and accusing NSG of being disingenuous when I really didn't think she was.

I think I repeat myself twice, both at relevant points. The vast majority of my reply posts is providing context and explaining where I was coming from. This is not in any way accurate.

I dont mean you're literally repeating yourself word for word, I mean that your defenses as far as I can tell basically boil down to "NSG is removing context" when I don't think she was and I don't think the removed context was relevant and "you are misunderstanding."

Obviously theres a little more to it than that, but your defense basically hinges on her taking you out of context when I don't think she was and that she was misunderstanding you when I don't think she was.

[Thestatusquo]

CES reacted validly and in full? Can you talk about that? I think thats exactly what I'm saying. He reacted with a LOT of stuff, but I felt like all of that stuff was mostly nonsense.

Can you tell me what about it you liked?

It's that it doesn't feel like a desperate recovery attempt and more like an actual explanation of what the situation is and what is wrong with the case.

Leaving aside that I disagree and think its fairly desperate, isn't this what you would expect a scum and town player to do?

It seems pretty NAI at best to me.

[ActionDan]

team is convinced I'm a goner tonight

I disagree, I am trying to win this for town and lynch scum before I am night killed.

No chance, no way, this scene won't play; I bet you know deep inside, it'll be NSG or even Davsto! More than a prediction, it's my absolute conviction
You'll keep on mislynching, without ever once flinching, though, to cure your affliction: lynch Dunn with my benediction!

[LicketyQuickety]

The point that Dan brings up for CES asking them why they have no interest in lynching Dunn is completely and 100% dropped. Neither of these players ends up bringing it up again up to current time.

I respond to it in #3053.

Fair enough.

[Thestatusquo]

team is convinced I'm a goner tonight

I disagree, I am trying to win this for town and lynch scum before I am night killed.

No chance, no way, this scene won't play; I bet you know deep inside, it'll be NSG or even Davsto! More than a prediction, it's my absolute conviction
You'll keep on mislynching, without ever once flinching, though, to cure your affliction: lynch Dunn with my benediction!

Why don't you think the team is Dunn/CES/Ran.

I think the team is Dunn Ran CES.

[ActionDan]

I'm going through the rebuttals and other such things now.

p-edit. It's a definite possibility, and if it's a choice between you and CES I'll be voting CES no question. I didn't mean to imply that CES was a mislynch from that or that Ran was town.

Currently I think it's most likely Dunn/Ran/? where ? could be a number of options, though CES is one of them

[LicketyQuickety]

I hate to say this because it means I was wrong, but I think the shea wagon is a Scum driven wagon.

[Ranmaru]

Quick: Same question. Who is scum on CEStown flip, and CESscum flip. In fact, everyone answer this. Ces scum = Ces, Shea, Quick.

I still don't understand why you think ces flip makes me scum. With LQ of literally all players. That would require you to think scums strategy is just basically turbo bussing which is just bizarre.

I think you are scum regardless of his flip.

[ActionDan]

Also I'm fairly certain Ran/Dunn/Lycan will be parking their votes on me tomorrow regardless of any outcome today, which is mainly where the mislynch bit came from.

[Ranmaru]

I hate to say this because it means I was wrong, but I think the shea wagon is a Scum driven wagon.

I predicted you'd change your stance once you get the opportunity to join a Shea wagon. Who is scum on a CEStown flip and CESscum flip?

[Ranmaru]

Also I'm fairly certain Ran/Dunn/Lycan will be parking their votes on me tomorrow regardless of any outcome today, which is mainly where the mislynch bit came from.

No, I won't.

[Thestatusquo]

I hate to say this because it means I was wrong, but I think the shea wagon is a Scum driven wagon.

*falls out of chair in absolute god damned shock*