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Post Post #1225 (ISO) » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:04 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Vote Count
Deadline: Mon 3 Dec, 10:37 UTC (
automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-12-03 10:37:00)
)
With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #1226 (ISO) » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:28 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1221, Deadpool wrote:How were you playing it? Can you describe what about it doesn't make sense as scum?

I kind of feel how you just described how it wouldn't make sense.

But let's just say I lead a derp counterwagon with no logic and no case, and just bleh bombast attitude.
I lead that counterwagon on town.
Then, the guy I called obv. scum at the end of Day 1 gets lynched Day 3 and flips scum after said town counterwagon.
What's my scumplan then?

If that had been Day 3 you might have a legit plan that I would do. But it isn't, you don't, and that's why it's doesn't make sense.


In post 1223, Soul2277 wrote:1. Yup. It's just how you see it.

2. Ockham's isn't always right, but I think this one's at least understood.

3. I honestly had to read back to remember the context of the argument, but you're point on sixty not being there isn't true, since when sixty mentioned that plan they were still walling. They stopped shortly after that.

4. I'll drop this just because the bigger problem isn't the gambit (which I still think you just decided to call it that later on instead of saying weak push elsewhere) is that it was on N just makes things strange. It becomes a bigger argument if N flips town (although that'd also mean one of my strong town reads is scum), but right now that just requires multiple assumptions to make sense.

1. Also known as - yeah, this stance of Soul's makes no sense and he's going to retreat from it and not address how fine of a hair split it is.

2. Uh huh.

3. Yeah...um, y'know, I make that case, he posts *once* more, and my immediate next post of the day is asking people to express thoughts on Sixty. Then, Day 2, I totally drop it for scum hijinks. Sure, pull the other one, it has bells on.

4. Uh huh.
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Post Post #1227 (ISO) » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:04 pm

Post by Justin Timberlake »

Tammy, while Thor might say there's little to no difference between his scum and his town game, I've seen that said by a lot of players in the past and it's very very rarely true, people often like to think of their scum game as stronger than it is or just plain don't know the differences in the play themselves. With all that said I think there are a lot of elements of Thors playstyle that are null-tells but I haven't seen anything from him that I'd consider that scummy in this game and am finding his play to be genuine. I haven't played with Thor-Scum before, I know I've played with Thor-SK though but I have followed along with a Thor scum game from memory. Look forward to hearing yours and Empires detailed thoughts on everything soon though, really need to settle and agree on a few things.

Soul, RE; 2) I find none of his preference or comments about meta to be scummy or contradictory really. 6) What are you trying to say here? It has nothing to do with who was voting who but rather their in thread interaction. 7) I think is by far the strongest town-tell so really really disagree with you attempting to treat it as a 'scum-tell' and part of your case. And as for our read on you - I think you're scum. If it came from push to shove right now and I had to place a vote down it'd be on you. There's a few things that are holding be back though, that being I'm not entirely sure I buy Jesse and yourself being completely working scum-team, there's a few comments between you guys that don't look like partners and OS's first wall resembles what I know of him as town and I've yet to come across a scum-game where he made a wall case. Pretty much a lot of small things like that are really throwing me off right now and I'm hoping a little time away from the game will help me either think it all through on a run, in the shower, on the train ect. I think I do a lot of my best thinking when I'm away from the game.

N, RE I'll respond first paragraph downwards 1) I don't really find 'buddying' to be a legitimate scum-tell, I don't think scums attempt at game start would be getting on the good side of someone by voting them and then unvoting them. The whole thing as town makes a lot of flowing sense. As scum it makes little. As for reactions / reads that he got; He did get one, on Equinox. 2) His tone and comments in his prior replace out posts don't read as him just being 'demotivated' the 'I won't post anymore' and 'I need to think about replacing out, okay yeah I will' ect. doesn't resemble that at all. Plus I think his consideration of replacing out would happen in the scum QT, not in-thread, all up this is a fairly massive town-tell. 3) The difference between Tierce/Piggy and Tierce/Absta is that Tierce joined the Piggy wagon late and the case looked like bussing partner for town cred whereas she was on Absta early so it can't be a 'scum thinking partners lynch is inevitable' reasoning at all. And while I think Thor/You are possible I don't think it's the case since I'm leaning towards him and to a lesser degree yourself being town. 4) Not everyone did. Soul didn't and it's one of the biggest things that are making me lean scum on them and as for the image post I meant 903.

In post 1219, Deadpool wrote:Preliminary thoughts: I am really undecided on the whole "baiting to see if anyone doesn't join the Sixty wagon." I can see both town and scum motivations behind it - town because of just what he said. Scum because he had a neat explanation for derailing the Sixty wagon - one that town would buy, so win-win. If somebody else gets lynched other than Sixty, that is the second mislynch. If not, he gives his explanation that he was baiting players off the Sixty wagon.

I think Thor-Scum and Sixty-Scum would have known without a doubt that in this playerlist they weren't going to be dodging the lynch that day so the motivation of 'derailing the Sixty and getting a mslynch elsewhere' makes very little sense and is very very unlikely - plus the fact that he only works as scum with N means you're saying he was trying to get another partner lynched instead of just bussing one partner. And while I get that it's possible that he pre-planned this entire explanation towards his actions I don't find it to be the case - I think the entire thing is very natural.
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Post Post #1228 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:49 am

Post by Justin Timberlake »

Well this discussion about Thor is boring.
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Post Post #1229 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:52 am

Post by Justin Timberlake »

In post 1207, Cerulean wrote:JT - how does thors own statement that his town game and scum game aren't really different affect your reading of his town tell? Also, have you ever played in a game with Thor scum?

(I have, at least once.)

Also SELF META IS INVALID LOL. SO THEREFORE HIS GAMES MUST BE DIFFERENT.
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Post Post #1230 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:16 am

Post by Justin Timberlake »

Mod: Prod Jesse


I already did before you asked – callforjudgement
Last edited by callforjudgement on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1231 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:24 am

Post by Cerulean »

Your face is boring
We're blue

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Post Post #1232 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:24 am

Post by Cerulean »

Just sayin
We're blue

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Post Post #1233 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:25 am

Post by Cerulean »

It's a good thing you have a sexy accent ;)

I'll be getting home tomorrow night and will get a chance to actually talk to empire again, and well be putting together our thoughts after, probs Monday or Tuesday.
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Post Post #1234 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:22 am

Post by Thor665 »

I'm still leaning Soul/Jesse with a preference towards Jesse, but Soul's awkward shifts with the case on me are kind of driving me towards OMGUS on him.
Deadpool feels vacantly useless for the most part - but I still think the slot is town.
JT and Ceru are town - Ceru is painfully obv. town.
Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him, I'm not strongly against his lynch, but seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo. Also, if everyone else is convinced his only possible partner is me...well, then it's a dumb lynch unless you actually buy Oversoul's case on me - and no one should.
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Post Post #1235 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

Actually - could someone remind me why N is 'only partners with Thor'?
I should probably actually look at that logic.
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Post Post #1236 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:29 am

Post by Deadpool »

Zzzzzzzzzzz why isn't N lynched yet?
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Post Post #1237 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:30 am

Post by Deadpool »

Nacho is in this game?
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Post Post #1238 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:31 am

Post by Deadpool »

In post 1234, Thor665 wrote:Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him, I'm not strongly against his lynch, but seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo.

This is scummnumnumnumy.

(not to mention half the sentence makes no sense)
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Post Post #1239 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:34 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1236, Deadpool wrote:Zzzzzzzzzzz why isn't N lynched yet?

Because you haven't come up with a peppy case of two sentences and repeated it a lot so everyone understands why he should be lynched.
I literally was even just asking about his partnership info - if you want the lynch and want it soon...um...y'know, work for it?

In post 1238, Deadpool wrote:
In post 1234, Thor665 wrote:Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him, I'm not strongly against his lynch, but seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo.

This is scummnumnumnumy.

(not to mention half the sentence makes no sense)

:?
Actually, it's not scummyscummyscummy - but maybe you should explain *how* it's scummy if you want to say that.
Especially if you're also claiming it makes no sense...which, y'know, if you can't even figure out what I'm saying I'm not sure how it's also supposed to look scummy. Because last I checked motivation was the only actual real scumtell.
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Post Post #1240 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:55 am

Post by Deadpool »

In post 1239, Thor665 wrote:Actually, it's not scummyscummyscummy - but maybe you should explain *how* it's scummy if you want to say that.
Especially if you're also claiming it makes no sense...which, y'know, if you can't even figure out what I'm saying I'm not sure how it's also supposed to look scummy. Because last I checked motivation was the only actual real scumtell.

Well can you please help me out.

What does:

"Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him"

actually mean?
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Post Post #1241 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:57 am

Post by Ser Arthur Dayne »

PS setting up lynches for today and tomorrow is the scummy part.
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Post Post #1242 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:58 am

Post by Deadpool »

In post 1241, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:PS setting up lynches for today and tomorrow is the scummy part.
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Post Post #1243 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:13 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1240, Deadpool wrote:What does:

"Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to him"

actually mean?

"Nacho is a niggle, but he always feels bad and scummy to
me
"
:neutral:

In post 1242, Deadpool wrote:
In post 1241, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:PS setting up lynches for today and tomorrow is the scummy part.

Isn't that THE ENTIRE THING EVERYONE HAS BEEN DISCUSSING ALL DAY.
Because, I kinda think it is.
That's all we've been doing.
Derp.
Go take your wiki tells and go sit quietly in the corner.
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Post Post #1244 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

And sweet mother of mercy - going back and looking - I'M NOT EVEN DOING THAT!
All I did was list a top two suspects and explained my reads on everyone else.

How did you get 'lining up lynches' from that?
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Post Post #1245 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:08 am

Post by Deadpool »

For fuck's sake it's not that hard :roll:

"seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo." kills any possibility for an N lynch and shows that you are disregarding the actual flips and simply wanting soul/jess for today/tomorrow. Which is def scummnumnumnumy.

PS That is what I thought it was, but just wanted to make sure.

Sooo, why does N always feel bad and scummy to you? And, y'know, how is that actually a reason to go OH LOL THAT MAKES HIM TOWN again? Occam's razor dictates that the simplest reasoning tends to be the right one. Or are you playing some shitty wifom reasoning in your head?
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Post Post #1246 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1245, Deadpool wrote:For Smurf's sake it's not that hard :roll:

Except to explain it as a scum action - apparently.

In post 1245, Deadpool wrote:"seriously think we'll do better in the Soul/Jesse combo." kills any possibility for an N lynch and shows that you are disregarding the actual flips and simply wanting soul/jess for today/tomorrow. Which is def scummnumnumnumy.

Actually, that was pretty clearly a request for TODAY as there was nothing in that as a 'let
s lynch one and den da ovver, trolololol!' So...

In post 1245, Deadpool wrote:Sooo, why does N always feel bad and scummy to you?

My presumption is he's not good at playing town.

In post 1245, Deadpool wrote:And, y'know, how is that actually a reason to go OH LOL THAT MAKES HIM TOWN again? Occam's razor dictates that the simplest reasoning tends to be the right one. Or are you playing some Smurfy wifom reasoning in your head?

[/quote]
It is absolutely not a reason and would be bad wifom.
Good thing I didn't do that at all or even indicate as such without massive squinting needed.
I even flat out agreed he looked scummy, so...?
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Post Post #1247 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:41 am

Post by Deadpool »

So why don't you want him lynched :neutral:
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Post Post #1248 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:52 am

Post by Deadpool »

Pages 17 - 25 (end of Day 2)


So, I am halfway through. Still online and reading. I'll probably finish soon.

Reading posts to 448, I get JT's view that Oversoul was distancing, not bussing. I am not entirely convinced though. I am re-reading with that in mind.

Oversoul, in post , you say:

"
If you really want a read from me Farday it's that I think you are scum if Sixty is scum. You are twisting my words in a way that I have never seen from your town play and you are being an asshole about on top of it. Your words about us being scum belies that you somehow "know" for a fact that Sixty is scum. You are tryin to fucking tie us to a sinking ship hence all of your twisting of words.
"

What makes you believe that JT/Sixty are scum together?

I had suspicions of JT too but this post from Sixty makes me think otherwise.
"This is terrible. Faraday occasionally slips like that, but it's hardly a stretch to assume scum connections pre-flip. You're saying that having scum-scum reads is scummy and shows scum knowledge? You're essentially accusing Faraday of lining up lynches, without showing how he's doing it in a scummy manner."


The fact that JT go so far into figuring the time in Portugal makes me think town/brilliant bus. JT, why go to such effort if Sixty was getting lynched regardless?

: "
Actually the whole thing is stupid what the fuck am i doing
" (JT) <-- This is town.

Just read Thor's wagon on N.

N's = scummy x100. If you don't understand it, why not re-read and attempt to understand where they are coming from? Also, the fact that you actually expect Tierce/Vi to out their buddies after you specifically mentioned what you were looking for. Looks to me like you are their buddy.

Based on , I lean town on Jesse.

Thor's : It is obvious the N wagon was planned by Thor so I'll buy his argument a little more.

Soul's wall - I have a hard time believing that that came from scum especially the part were OS digs into the reasons for his anger and tries to explain them. But then again competency matters. Soul's townread on N is mysterious. I don't have even the slightest townread on N

Anyways, at this point, I am convinced Cerulean, and JT are town and are my two strongest townreads.

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Post Post #1249 (ISO) » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:20 am

Post by Deadpool »

Page 25 (Start of Day 3) - Page 38 (End of Day 3)


I'll buy JT's point on Oversoul being capable of raging as scum. I'll do the meta-research after I finish reading. @JT, do you think Oversoul is capable of explaining all his emotions as scum the way he did? It is not the rage but the explanations for it that makes me lean town on him.

Thor, why do you think Jesse would find a Sixty counterwagon viable? You posted a reaction test, he took the bait and you went after him. But the Sixty lynch was really cut and dry so I don't know why Jesse wouldn't bus. Sixty's partners would want to be on that lynch and Sixty would want them to be on their lynch as well.

I do find Jesse's scummy though. No substance, just an OMGUS vote on Thor. No explanation for why he voted Thor. Continues having a scumread on N.

Thor's comment about our slot like "
I'm adamant because his play looks to have no scum value at all.
" match up with his town-meta where he believes unusual stuff is town. In another game where I quickhammered a townie, Thor said that was obvtown. Still need to read Thor's scum games to double-check though.

I get Thor's read on N about how scum would be competing to be the loudest. Who on the Sixty wagon do you think was trying to be the loudest? Because once Empire and Tammy made their hugemetawallcases, nobody else was going to get "credit" for the lynch. It was a done deal. Also, JustinTimberlake were the loudest pushers of the Sixty wagon. By your logic, do you find them suspicious Thor?

I hate reading Jesse's posts - they are all quote-stripes. Quote less please.

N's , he provides no opinions. He isn't sure what to make of Soul/Thor argument. I get the feeling N is sitting on the fringes for the entire game, avoiding arguments, sitting back, doing nothing.

I agree with most of JT's and want an answer from Jesse as to why he felt N was scum since Jesse should logically believe that N was town based on N going after Thor.

JT's makes sense if Sixty was expecting to stick around. Also, Jesse it will be nice if you post your notes.

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