Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[mykonian]

votecount

theomoaner (3): Hiraki, jun, thurhame
PMysterious (2): mcstab, smashbard
jun (2): Telo, theomoaner
maenara (1): pirate mollie
mcstab (1): shinori
telo (1): dividizzle
pirate mollie (1): maenara
shinori (1): eleison

not voting (4): thermal, NJAC, pmysterious, evilpacman

[theomoaner]

...

I thought it was anti town of you not to vote to help people get out of RVS. And while I don't know if you are new or not new, Thor's argument that newbie scum is "willing to bend to demands to be aggressive earlier" stuck with me. My intent was to pressure you to vote and to see if you would feel pressured to vote someone and bend to my demands in order to avert suspicion...

Doesn't wash my friend. The join date is clearly shown for each player (I believe Hiraki made a point of this not long ago) so "don't know if you are new or not" is a blatant lie. If you were trying to "bend a new player to your will" then NJAC would have been a better option, as in he is a non-voting new(ish) player.
Try again.

[Telo]

I get suspicious of vote trading. So I'm keeping an eye on maenara/pirate mollie and theomaoaner/jun.

[theomoaner]

^I'm suspicious of fence sitting.

[Thurhame]

I get suspicious of vote trading. So I'm keeping an eye on maenara/pirate mollie and theomaoaner/jun.

Good, then you'll help me lynch theomoaner?

[Telo]

Theomoaner, I have a vote placed on one of those people. It's actually the same person you've voted so I'm not sure how you call that fence sitting. Unless you're fence sitting as well.
p-edit @Thurhame, I'll keep that possiblity in mind.

[Thurhame]

@theomoaner:

Jun's temporary pressure vote on evilpacman isn't a scumtell. He did the same thing in my last game.

[theomoaner]

^I'm suspicious of fence sitting.

Sorry, I used the wrong word. After 24 hours and 30 posts the best you have is "keeping an eye on..." is a little light. You either have an opinion on the activity or not, your post was just filler fluff.

@theomoaner:

Jun's temporary pressure vote on evilpacman isn't a scumtell. He did the same thing in my last game.

It's not the vote, It's the backpedaling from the vote, which to non-team scum, like yourself, is full of holes.

[theomoaner]

Oops, (alcohol + football = bad posts) ^ should read "...which to non-team scum

un

like yourself...

[Thurhame]

He didn't backpedal. It got evilpacman to start voting, so it did it's duty, so it wasn't needed anymore. Pretty obvious to me.

[Telo]

Sorry, I used the wrong word. After 24 hours and 30 posts the best you have is "keeping an eye on..." is a little light. You either have an opinion on the activity or not, your post was just filler fluff.

My opinion isn't any lighter than yours. As far as I know our votes have equal weight.

[theomoaner]

Oh well, he didn't jump wagon, and made up blatant lies to attempt to justify it, must just be me then.

Why have you taken it upon yourself to defend him?

P-edit

I wasn't talking about

votes

I was talking about

opinions

. I have expressed many (either right or wrong, but still expressed) you haven't other than... well what exactly?

[theomoaner]

And... why was it

SO

imprtant for EPM to vote as opposed to say PMyst?

[theomoaner]

@Telo: As you are a "reasonably" new player, by fence sitting I am referring to the fact that in one post you name four people as "might be because they are doing something I don't like" scum. You really at this point (and again this is my opinion) need to be sitting on one target and trying to pressure them instead of just... doing nothing after a days abscence. Read the game, opine on the posts since your last one.

[Smashbard]

I'm finding Jun, Telo and Pirate scummy at the moment. I will elaborate more when I'm off work. PMysterious, its page 6. You better have some reads.

[Thurhame]

Oh well, he didn't jump wagon and make up blatant lies to attempt to justify it, must just be me then.

Why have you taken it upon yourself to defend him?

You just answered your own question. I hope it wasn't sarcasm.

[pirate mollie]

I'm finding Jun, Telo and Pirate scummy at the moment. I will elaborate more when I'm off work. PMysterious, its page 6. You better have some reads.

fos this. you are going after low hanging fruit.

I am new, telo is new (saw her in intros) and jun kind of reads as fairly new. do you seriously think that the gm would have 3 newbs as scum against a wall of experienced town? while I generally think that reverse engineering the gm's brain leads to madness, it looks like you are trying to stack your options for a future lynch with a possible bus somewhere in there.

will be interesting to see what you come up with.

working on my own wot.

[Smashbard]

You are scummy due to your nervousness over nothing since you've flipping out over maenaras vote. Jun just went from buddying to voting the same dude in minutes. Telo is overly cautious. More later. On phone

[pirate mollie]

newb mistakes

lol, I thought that maenara melted down after I merely mentioned him so I found that scummy. I said a "a slow fade" and he took it as "lurking". the two cannot be transposed within the context that I meant it so it looked like it was a deliberate mischaracterisation (which I asked about and he has not responded to!). lurking is passive participation and a "fade" is not.

whenever someone declaratively states that they are "so sure" so and so is scum, after one post I tend to think of them as scummy or they are being retarded town. to me, his response was an overreaction despite my having him in my town pile with post #12.

if you want to have a go at me, then here it is: upon a reread I think that maenara was responding in a pressure cooker kind of way. given the feedback I am putting him in my unsure/town pile for now.

I am totally backpedaling on him.

unvote maenara

[Smashbard]

There has been alot of antitown overreacting to pressure on people from the start. Its hard to tell with experienced players whether its aggressive play or scumminess. Say, Jun flips scum. I could better believe Hikari is scum due to his instant defense.

[Hiraki]

The vote count made me go back and check out all the votes on PM. Yours is the worst.

not like I told everyone this

oh wait

i did

yay

is this based on meta or wishful thinking

It's kind of based on the reasoning that you gave a damn about his RVS vote and Maenara was completely true that you said he "faded" out when he posted 21 hours ago.

Maybe if he posted that 5 days ago and was lurking would such a thing be barely acceptable as evidence.

What are your thoughts so far?

Who I think is town:
None of your business.

You have

ABSOLUTELY

no right to pressure someone with possibly concealing information considering that you're actively flaunting that you're concealing it.

Lolz, definitely scum found

See those two votes right above that post?

And how you actively ignored them?

Yeah, you shouldn't do that when you're scum.

Makes you look worse than you already are.

the theomoaner wagon is a red herring anyway, it's already gaining traction too quickly. I'm gonna wanna lynch Jun.

This is a fine enough plan. Not sure about pirate.

When I can quote posts to make my case, there's a fucking problem with the lack of quality.

Theomoaner, I have a vote placed on one of those people. It's actually the same person you've voted so I'm not sure how you call that fence sitting. Unless you're fence sitting as well.

Grabbing to find a new source of attention Theomoaner?

You should also avoid doing that when you're scum.

Makes you look bad.

[quote="Smashbard'] Say, Jun flips scum. I could better believe Hikari is scum due to his instant defense.[/quote]Coming from a completely serious and neutral perspective,(granted I would be that kind of guy to manipulate these kind of statements to my advantage--but I'm not, trust me) these statements cause the greatest amount of mislynches in game. Scum practically feed on them

Why is Telo scummy though and not theo?

[pirate mollie]

There has been alot of antitown overreacting to pressure on people from the start. Its hard to tell with experienced players whether its aggressive play or scumminess.

Say, Jun flips scum. I could better believe Hikari is scum due to his instant defense

.

lol, wat.

the first sentence does not predicate the second so I am not following you here. unless you are making a case based on meta that I cannot see.

[Eleison]

I get suspicious of vote trading. So I'm keeping an eye on maenara/pirate mollie and theomaoaner/jun.

This is so waffly. Why are you being so waffly. Do you have a serious opinion on either of them, or are you only going to "keep an eye" on them, and hop on a wagon and sheep when enough votes build up. This is extremely scummy to me.

I'm finding Jun, Telo and Pirate scummy at the moment. I will elaborate more when I'm off work. PMysterious, its page 6. You better have some reads.

fos this. you are going after low hanging fruit.

I am new, telo is new (saw her in intros) and jun kind of reads as fairly new. do you seriously think that the gm would have 3 newbs as scum against a wall of experienced town? while I generally think that reverse engineering the gm's brain leads to madness, it looks like you are trying to stack your options for a future lynch with a possible bus somewhere in there.

will be interesting to see what you come up with.

working on my own wot.

I think it's ridiculous for you to assume that the Host would not do that. Are you absolutely sure that it's a tailor'd community where newbs aren't scum on their first game? I think that's a bold assumption to make, especially as a defense for yourself and other players.

Noviceness is not indicative of alignment. Ever.

What are your thoughts so far?

Who I think is town:
None of your business.

You have

ABSOLUTELY

no right to pressure someone with possibly concealing information considering that you're actively flaunting that you're concealing it.

It's Eleison, not Elesion. I know what you meant though.

Not quite. You're saying i'm concealing information, but you neglected to quote my entire post, which included my thoughts on scum. You don't need to jump on me for only acknowledging a part of my post, when other parts of my post were of a related matter. I can requote my post that shows me outting some information too, if you would like?

[NJAC]

Jun's train of thought is terrible imo, but I'm gonna think for now that it doesn't make him (her?) scummy, he (she?) does some scummy things but I saw that kind of "reasoning" in her first newbie game (and she was town). And to answer a question from Theomoaner I'm not defending her, not now neither when you asked me, and I think it's pretty clear that I just told EPM that her question wasn't alignment indicative, and that kind of questions doesn't constitute a scumtell theirselves.

On another note I think EPM is being a little bit opportunistic with the Theomoaner wagon, he said he suddenly realized the Theomoaner's scummy actions and he just jumped on the wagon. Idk if theomoaner is scummy or not, I don't find him scummy enough for now, but it looks to me like some scums are jumping on his wagon, and EPM is suspect for me:

VOTE: evilpacman

[Smashbard]

To Pirate Mollie: I would draw the conclusion because Hikari jumped to Jun's defense when Evilpacman tried to call Jun out as scum #1. I would not LIKE to draw that conclusion, as I actually find Hikari to be very town at the moment, if only abrasive. It's going to be hard to work with him to create a confirmed town lynching block later in the game because he's so anti-everyone's opinion other than his own. But that doesn't make Hikari himself, scummy in my eyes.

As I was trying to elaborate earlier via my phone, at this stage in the game it is going to be near impossible to lynch experienced scum. You have to catch their less experienced partners, then look at the interactions from the previous day, who was on what wagon, and try to draw correlations from the lynch as well as any information gathered through the night.

This may be a vote just based on not liking your play, but I just have a really bad gut reaction to you, Mollie. And in times like Day 1 where I don't have much to go off beyond my gut, I need to follow it.

Unvote. Vote: Pirate Mollie

To Hikari: I don't find Theo scummy at the moment because we share a genuine suspicion of Jun's play. If my gut is right and Jun is scum, it wouldn't make a lot of sense for Theo to just straight up buss a scumbuddy so early in the game like that. As he's trying pretty hard to get him lynched.