In post 123, Lark wrote:Actually I'm going to address this one to Matias and Desp too. Why did you start a new wagon on Neonizer when there were already votes on Bojo?In post 122, Lark wrote:What is your reason for voting Neonizer rather than Bojo?
Please point out what post you're talking about, my mind is a bit mushy from the analysis of this game.In post 128, Lark wrote:What did you think about my point that Bo wouldn't have used the words he did if he really thought I was scum as he claimed he did?
Yes, I read your reasoning for voting Bojo. 84 wasn't scummy at all (talking about the attack on you), in fact, I got town vibes on the way he did it. I already said my reasoning for voting Neonizer, and the fact you are asking why I'm voting for Neonizer over Bojo only makes me more confident in my scumread on you and Neon.In post 122, Lark wrote:Did you read my reason for voting him?In post 119, 1baldeagle1 wrote:While we are all voting Neonnizer, you vote Bojo. This just looks like he's too afraid to bus.
Before you voted Bojo was on three and Neonizer was on two, you jumped off a no longer viable wagon to tie them on three each. What is your reason for voting Neonizer rather than Bojo?
Yes, I've heard of it. Is that why Bojo voted you? Trouble is, he spoilt the effect a bit with his "placeholder" comment.In post 121, 1baldeagle1 wrote:Are you familiar with the Whit Flag Gambit? You guys really need to stop the "Scum wouldn't bus"
What do you expect me to say about it? I asked Baldeagle a question and he answered it in a satisfactory manner. End of discussion. You're the one who keeps harping on about it, not him.In post 103, Sanhora wrote:Better yet, BaldEagle has answered your question, yet you don't mention it.
Asking questions isn't necessarily the same as attacking. Why are you being so defensive? Sometimes a Scum player's shell will begin to crack under a constant barrage of questions. Is that what's happening here? Have I succeeded in cracking your shell? Because that's what it's starting to look like to me. You have a problem with my inquiries, which means that you have something to hide and you want me to just get off your back already.In post 103, Sanhora wrote:If it's not an attack, then what is it? Because you have gone out of your way to repeatedly ask us those questions.
If you ask me a question and I don't answer you, it means one of two things: either I didn't notice it or I didn't think it was important enough to deserve an answer. If it's the latter, feel free to fold your arms over your chest and pout about it. If it's the former, though, I apologize and invite you to reiterate any questions that you want me to answer. Unlike some players here, I have nothing to hide.In post 103, Sanhora wrote:You didn't even answer my questions, which brings me to my next point.
I don't care what you call it. All I see is you throwing with words. And when players respond to you with their answers, you don't respond back.
I would assume that Bo and jmo have their own QT that they can use whenever they want since they're a hydra. I think that's what Sanhora was talking about here, not the RedCoyote/Bojo QT.In post 108, Desperado wrote:Uh...what? If he and Jmo didn't discuss massclaim pre-game, how do you expect him to ask him afterwards?
His only choice was to ask the game.
For what it's worth, RedCoyote just finished moderating a four-month-long game (this one) where I was Town. He knows what my Town play looks like.In post 109, Matias wrote:RedCoyote says that Desp/Skull's early game play makes them town.
How so? I've been mildly suspicious of him for pretty much the whole game so far. It's not strong enough to warrant a vote yet, but I'm definitely not as confident about calling him Town as Desperado is.In post 109, Matias wrote:Skull's read on eagle seems a bit schizophrenic.
Mmm. Can you expand on this a bit, please? You're Towny enough for me to value your opinion, so if you think I'm wrong about Lark (and, to a lesser extent, Baldeagle), I'm willing to listen to your reasoning.In post 113, Matias wrote:-Speaking of Lark, the 1v1 between Lark and eagle make me believe that both are town or only one is scum, and based on THEIR reactions, I don't think that either are scum.
Specifically, what part of it did you find scummy and why?In post 118, Lark wrote:That was his first vote but his attack on me in 84 was certainly scummy.
You don't think Baldeagle/Sanhora/Lark/phok or Baldeagle/Sanhora/Neonizer/Blueberry are viable combinations?In post 136, Desperado wrote:If he's scum then the other pair is in our hard townreads.
As I mentioned in my previous post, regardless as to whether or not you think an early mass claim is good, it should be recognized that it was an aggressive, headstrong, and attention-grabbing move. Not things that I traditionally associate with scum. Lark disagreed with that, which is acceptable, but I think his rationale for doing so was forced. I asked Lark why scum wouldn't go after a "weaker" player regardless as to who their partner was, he had no answer. To sum up, one, I get a strong townread from the Desp/Skull group immediately off the bat (their claim as well as their ability to justify it), two, Lark's putting himself at odds with them early, three, his bumbling justification.Sanhora 86 wrote:I want to see a full post from you about Lark and why he's your toppick for scum.
Eh, it's here I'm getting the idea that you're making more out of this than there is. I can follow your baldeagle/Lark thing, although I'm more sure about Neon/Lark not being scum together. The reason I say you're making more out of this is because this is the inevitable vibe you get from early wagons. It's weak to push someone on something like a stray comment about scum's targeting strategy because the game has just started. Ultimately that "first wagon" usually will shake out into two groups, those that supported it and those that think it was the wrong way to go based on [insert reason here] (speed, person, the people on the wagon, role claim, etc).Matias 93 wrote:This is just the general vibe I get from those two. I'm not making any definite statements, but something seems off with the wagon on Lark. I just have to pinpoint what it is.
Lark 96 wrote:I'm pretty good at pegging scum, I tend to be right about half the time. It depend on the player.
We didn't discuss it, I said that already. Surely if the hydra heads would have, they'd have brought me into the discussion. It's scummy because it's neglectful? Why would asking a fellow hydra head what their opinion was before doing something as rash as claiming be scummy?Sanhora 104 wrote:But the other part is that the hydra is mentioning here that he hasn't talked about mass-claiming with his other head and apparently also not with his partner. This is scummy as he's asking here for advice what to do. So if he's town, he rather asks people who could be scum, instead of players who he knows are town.
That's a gross oversimplification for someone that is being honest. We do have a mislynch. That's pretty important when deciding where to put your vote.Sanhora 104 wrote:His catch-up post was terrible. Just thinking 'wait, we get a mislynch' and voting for a 'placeholder' is not what town does. I can explain this if players want, but I rather makee it to my bus on time now. And I hope this part doesn't need an explanation.
I can only speak for myself, but if I am calling someone town or scum, I am cognizant of the fact that that goes for their partner as well. I'm also assuming everyone is doing the same thing and calling anything else out as scummy because the only reason I would see someone saying "X is scummy but his partner is so town" is to fencesit.Matias 109 wrote:Desperado calls Bojo town. Doesn't mention RC. Skull doesn't mention either. Bojo is a little more strict in his townread of Desperado and started off feeling uneasy about Skull. RedCoyote says that Desp/Skull's early game play makes them town.
Skull picked up on the response and asked the same exact question I was going to ask. I have been following their exchange.Matias 110 wrote:RC asks Sanhora a question and doesn't follow through on it
Matias 110 wrote:RC never mentions Neon.
Uh, no, I've mentioned Neon in every single one of my posts. How did you miss that? Did you mean Blueberry? I haven't mentioned Blueberry because there's really nothing there.Matias 113 wrote:-Total lack of interaction with each other
I actually see a lot of wisdom to this. I think all three of these wagons are pretty good barometers with which to measure this for later as well (which players were on which wagons).Matias 127 wrote:Influence has a BIG part in this setup due to the lynch-one-lynch-all-mafia mechanic. White Flag Mafia in Team Mafia 2012 really blew my mind when it came to mith's vote on his partner late in the game; I'm really skeptic of after-theory vote counts, because it's easy to bus when prompted (and hard to do so before-the-fact).
Well, he voted for Desp.Skull 134 wrote:To his credit, at least Lark had the balls to say that Desperado and I are Scum. (He didn't actually vote for us, but hey, baby steps.)
As I said just 3 posts before yours, it's the first para of post 99. But I'm going to post it again here because I want everyone to consider what I think is a strong scum-slip by Bojo:In post 133, Skullduggery wrote:Specifically, what part of it did you find scummy and why?
In post 99, Lark wrote:Yes, of course it's complete conjecture, because that's all I can do without more certain information, which in this game we only get after people flip. But thanks for letting us know that you think,In post 84, Bojo wrote:And basically from then on, I’m actually more convinced Lark is scum.His claims that two people “aren’t acting like town” but acting like “part of an anti-town group” is complete conjecture, and overall my gut feels worse and worse about him. Funny because earlier I was praising him for thinking like me.or know, that I'm town as if you thought I was scum you wouldn't be calling it conjecture. In fact logic dictates that it's "know", not "think" but logic doesn't always work in mafia. And I'm now torn between voting for you and keeping my vote on baldeagle.
You and Bojo are my number one choice probably with baldeagle/Sanhora, particularly in view of his reaction to my vote on Bojo. I'm also considering Neon/Blueberry due to their zero scumhunting but with your vote change that's less likely. As I said earlier I don't think Desp/Skull are paired with baldeagle/sanhora who I think are more likely to be scum than they are.In post 144, RedCoyote wrote:Lark, are you thinking me/Bojo and Skull/Desp as your number one scumteam pick? Or has Neon/Blueberry overtaken one of us?
I was thinking the same.In post 145, Matias wrote:Also, I'm willing to go through with the neon lynch and see who jumps off.
