Mini #70: Vanilla Extract- Game Over, man!

[CoolBot]

Before night falls, I guess I should tell you guys I'll be away for Thanksgiving and won't get back until Sunday.

[JereIC]

Final Vote Tally

5 Morpheus- Dasquian, MeMe, Spoon, No Idea, Mathcam

4 Not Voting

- Coolbot, Morpheus, Prizm, sbdirt

At the town meeting, the discussion quickly grows dark and fatal for Morpheus. As sun seems to set unusally quickly, and the decision is unanimous: Morpheus must die.

Well, okay, it's not unanimous. Morpheus obviously objected, but what would you expect? And I guess those four people who didn't vote don't count as unanimous. But, the majority has spoken, and it has said, "Morpheus is scum, he must die! Oh, and Coolbot's going to be away for Thanksgiving until Sunday!" And so it was. Except for the scum part; Morpheus was a townie.

Morpheus, townie, has been lynched.

It's now night three. I'm going to lift the normal deadline rule, considering the holiday, but I'd prefer to have choices in by Friday. Have a great Thanksgiving, those of y'all in the states!

[JereIC]

"Hey, No Idea, I've got a question."
"Shoot," No Idea said.
"Hehe, funny you should mention that."
"What do you mean?"
"Never mind. Ok, so I was talking to Riven earlier, and he said people don't need all the chambers of their heart. That you could donate some of them for fun and profit."
"That's absurd. The heart needs all four chambers to pump blood. It has to pump blood from the body, to the lungs, back from the lungs, then back to the rest of the body. Four things to do, four pumps. I sure wish Riven was still alive, so I could correct him on that."
"Hey, how you do you know all this stuff?"
"Well," No Idea said, "I'm a doctor. I studied the circulatory system for years. If someone's bleeding, say from a cut or a bullet wound, I know exactly what's happening."
"Hehe, bullet wounds, funny you should mention that."
"What? Why's everything I say 'Funny you should mention that'?"
"No reason, No Idea. Hey, you ever been to a cement factory?"
"I...," No Idea began, stopping mid-sentence. "Oh."

No Idea, doc, has been killed; it'll take 4 votes to avenge him!

On another note, I'm back at home, happily stuffed with tofurky, but missing some of my useful scumming tools. If something looks off, it probably is, so let me know asap.

[mathcam]

Well, crap. 7 left, 4 to lynch, and almost certainly 3 evil. A wrong lynch will almost certainly lose us the game.

I continue in my belief that MeMe is evil. I have little reasoning for this except a strong gut feeling. If I'm wrong this time, I'll forever in the future concede that I cannot read her.

Vote: MeMe

Cam

[Prizm]

Well, firstly, happy Thanksgiving to all in the US and happy Thursday to everyone else.

Mathcam: Well, I can respect that I guess. I'm not going to jump on a bandwagon based off of your gut feeling, since I also am incapable of reading her.

Anyway, I'm going to postpone judgment since as Mathcam said, any incorrect lynch will almost certainly end the game.

[mathcam]

I, of course, don't expect people to jump onto a bandwagon just because I have a hunch, especially when you have no guarantees that I'm a townie. I'm mostly posting my hunch here so that when she wins, I'll at least be able to claim I had her pegged.

I kind of feel like any roles with information shold come out, even if it's just a list of two innocents. That information would alone be very useful to the town.

Cam

[Dasquian]

Well, I've just read through the game again, and I suspect... everyone . Some things leap out:

sbdirt has put us in a really awkward position. I wish we'd lynched him, because he's still only posted about 5 times this game and so we have

nothing

to go on w.r.t. him. As much as I'd love to lynch him just to punish him for that behaviour, I don't think it's helpful in the slightest. sbdirt, seriously, what's up?

Spoon is highest on my suspicion-o-meter. He reacted very badly to Morpheus voting for him and also had a spat with No Idea who's now dead, and I wonder if his defense of sbdirt for lurking wasn't a bit pre-emptive.

Everyone else, I dunno. Take your pick - with no bad guys to go on, it's hard to see where the allegiances are. I could well believe a mathcam/MeMe mafia is cleaning up here. Or it could be Spoon and sbdirt. Or maybe MeMe, Prizm and Coolbot! I just don't know

[No Idea]

Bah! *dies*
Whoever's scum is certainly doing a very good job...
And I loved my death scene

[Spoon]

We've lost the doc... great. And if lynch an innocent, we lose

sbdirt has put us in a really awkward position. I wish we'd lynched him, because he's still only posted about 5 times this game and so we have

nothing

to go on w.r.t. him. As much as I'd love to lynch him just to punish him for that behaviour, I don't think it's helpful in the slightest. sbdirt, seriously, what's up?

I still don't believe he is mafia. He is just not posting too much.

Spoon is highest on my suspicion-o-meter. He reacted very badly to Morpheus voting for him

I did? I was attacking Morpheus earlier, and unfortunately, that was a mistake...
But, I still think he was rather suspicious, and my reasons weren't that bad.

and also had a spat with No Idea who's now dead

I did? I don't know what exactly a 'spat' is, but No Idea simply disagreed with me on something. Hardly a reason to kill someone, don't you think?

and I wonder if his defense of sbdirt for lurking wasn't a bit pre-emptive.

I don't think lynching lurkers is ever a good idea...

Let's have a look at everyone alive:
CoolBot - Hasn't made a lot of posts, but he doesn't seem too suspicious. Don't know much about him
Dasquian - He is either pro-town, or rather clever mafia. I'm pretty sure it is the first
Mathcam - No idea about him. Again, he doesn't seem suspicious
MeMe - I am somewhat suspicious of MeMe as well, but apart from contributing to the lynching of two townies and some odd arguments (including the whole Prizm thing), there isn't much to go on.
Prizm - Hasn't made a lot of posts, he doesn't really seem suspicious either. I have no idea about him once again
sbdirt - Almost no posts. Although he could be lurking mafia, I don't think he is really suspicious
Spoon - I'm obviously pro-town

Well, I'm most suspicious of MeMe at the moment, but I'm not going to vote for her, since if she

is

town, killing her will lose us this game and I'm not that sure she really is mafia.

[MeMe]

Well, I'm town, so lynching me will lose us the game. I can't even muster up too much remorse over the Isaac & Morpheus deaths...I'm pretty smart and they looked scummy to me. If we lose this game, I think a large part of the blame should be laid at Isaac's feet -- I mean, what was he thinking? We lost a cop night one and he decides to make himself a target for Day one. Anyway...spilt milk and all.

As for mathcam, the "I continue in my belief that MeMe is evil" comment is interesting, considering that he had never even voted for me, prior to that post, but he

did

put the lynching vote on Morpheus (blaming me in the process) and also voted for Isaac, though he waited until after I built the case against him. Who's more suspicious? The one who's actually studying and making theories or the one who says "oh, I don't know...I think that might be wrong...but I'll follow and blame the leader later..."

And I find this quote, near the end of day one, quite interesting.

I'm mainly voting for Isaac now because his guilt/innocence is up in the air, and it will tell us something about Prizm, but I agree that if I had to make a second guess, it would be Morpheus.

Cam

He admits he's voting someone he's not sure is guilty AND he puts forth a second target (Morpheus), who we go on to lynch the next day. I think mathcam's been pulling strings without being in the spotlight this whole game. He's had a kind of attitude of reluctance about the lynches prior to today...and now he's quick out of the gate with a dangerous vote on me. If he's not mafia, he's probably just made it possible for them to speed lynch me, assuming there's three of them, which is just plain careless behavior for a pro-town player.

FOS: mathcam

Requesting replacement for sbdirt

[JereIC]

Vote Tally

:
1 MeMe- Mathcam

6 Not Voting

- CoolBot, Dasquian, MeMe, Prizm, sbdirt, Spoon

I'll get in touch with sbdirt.

[Prizm]

Ooofff...You've put us in a pretty difficult situation here MeMe. Here's why:

Facts:
1. We have 3 mafia in the game. With 4 votes to lynch, a competent and present mafia can kill if there is a single wrong townie vote.
2. You and Mathcam are both experienced players, and both have acknowledged this fact.
3. Mathcam has voted for you.
4. No one else has.

There are three possibilities arising from these facts. The first is that Mathcam is right and you are mafia. This would explain the absence of mafia jumping on you.

The second possibility is that Mathcam is mafia and his fellow mafia are waiting until someone falls for it and votes for you, or his fellow mafia are away for Thanksgiving.

The third possibility is that you and Mathcam are both mafia, trying to pull the wool over all of our eyes.

In other words, either you, Mathcam, or both of you are mafia. It is impossible that both of you are townies. So it basically comes down to who do I believe, and unfortunately you are both very good players and difficult to read. However, right now I'm believing MeMe, because as she points out, mathcam has made several posts which are highly suspicious, where mathcam has made no reasons for his vote other than a "gut feeling." So

FoS mathcam

.

[MeMe]

There are three possibilities arising from these facts. The first is that Mathcam is right and you are mafia. This would explain the absence of mafia jumping on you.

The second possibility is that Mathcam is mafia and his fellow mafia are waiting until someone falls for it and votes for you, or his fellow mafia are away for Thanksgiving.

Whoa - Prizm. Out of the two possibilities I've quoted above, only the second is the viable one.

I believe that at this stage in the game, mafia can afford to lose a member. So, if I were mafia, why wouldn't my fellows distance themselves from me by joining my lynching party? If there are three mafia (and, like you, I'm assuming there are) my buddies plus Cam would only be three -- not enough to lynch -- someone else would have to join them to make me dead and their alignment would probably be counted as "likely innocent" when I'm exposed as dead scum...good move for the remaining two.

However, if I'm lynched, I'm gonna show up as dead townie...because of that, when I checked in about an hour ago and saw that no one had yet joined mathcam in his vote for me, it only strengthened my belief that he's scum. If he weren't, it seems logical that mafia would have jumped at the chance to speed lynch me with the nice start they got from "pro-town" mathcam. Of course, this would be logical

most

of the time...the big wrinkle being that this happens to be a holiday weekend in the US, so it makes that conclusion a bit more iffy.

My money's on Cam -- but I'd like to hear from CoolBot and sbdirt (or a replacement) before we make any big decisions.

[Dasquian]

I just reread the thread - it's kind of hard to draw any real conclusions though since Isaac and Morpheus basically tied up day 1 lining themselves up to get lynched

Points of interest: Prizm hangs back his vote in both days, and CoolBot is also slow to vote, treading the fine line between being too quiet and having too state too much of an opinion. Both of these are highly suspicious in my book, and Prizm gets my vote for being the more likely of the two - it was trying to make out like either one or both of mathcam and MeMe have to be mafia which pushed me over the edge.

Vote Prizm

.

I don't buy the logic that mathcam or MeMe MUST be mafia. They're both good players, sure, but neither have acted suspiciously, so the case against them appears to be built on raw paranoia. The argument that all 3 mafia would pile on their votes is bunk too - people are slow to post here and unlike AIM mafia, unless you can see your mates all online at the same time, you can't afford to pile on the votes in case the original innocent voter spots something's up two votes in and pulls out, leaving you all high and dry.

Finally, sbdirt still only has 8 measly posts to his name. *growls* That's old ground though. What I did notice is how keen Spoon was to defend him, being quite adamant that he had a fine excuse for lurking and that we should all just leave him be. That made me suspicious and I haven't forgotten it, but I feel safer voting for Prizm or Coolbot today.

[Spoon]

Although lynching him for lurking is a *really* bad idea, I do agree that sbdirt should either start posting more or be replaced...

Dasquian: First you say me and sbdirt are suspicious, and now suddently Prizm and Coolbot are suspicious?

MeMe is still highly suspicious in my eyes, although mathcam's 'hunch' is a bit odd as well. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Dasquain that Prizm and Coolbat seem to be hiding out a little, which is somewhat suspicious as well. And sbdirt's lurking isn't really nice as well.

FOS: Everyone except myself

I'm confused...

[Prizm]

Dasquian: Why don't you buy the logic that either MeMe or mathcam must be mafia?

1. You say neither of them has acted suspiciously. How about mathcam voting for someone who he has nothing other than a gut feeling against? Or MeMe voting twice for an innocent? Both have made suspicious moves.

2. It's been 2 days since mathcam voted. No one else has voted for MeMe since then. The mafia could easily have made at least 1 vote toward MeMe if mathcam is an innocent in those two days, unless either MeMe or mathcam is scum.

Finally, I must address your attack on me. I may not have voted either day, but note that we also lynched a townie both days. I didn't feel the case for Isaac or Morpheus was strong enough to deserve a vote.

I strongly suspect you at this point as well Dasquian. You voted twice for someone who has now been confirmed townie. You are attacking me because before I didn't post enough of an opinion, and now because I've advanced what believe to be hard facts. However, since I am absolutely sure that either MeMe or mathcam is evil, and I currently think that it's mathcam, I will

vote mathcam

[Dasquian]

Dasquian: Why don't you buy the logic that either MeMe or mathcam must be mafia?

Because it doesn't really bear up to closer inspection - you say that if mathcam and Meme were both innocent, all three mafia would pile on and vote for MeMe and win the game. However, that's simply not true - two mafia might place their votes but before the third does, mathcam might realise something was up, unvote, and get 2/3rds of the mafia in his sights.

Particularly

if sbdirt is mafia, and the mafia know that their third vote isn't anywhere close! So your logic really doesn't hold much water.

1. You say neither of them has acted suspiciously. How about mathcam voting for someone who he has nothing other than a gut feeling against? Or MeMe voting twice for an innocent? Both have made suspicious moves.

A gut feeling is sometimes better than hard logic - sometimes not. I've often spotted a mafia on gut feeling and been unable to back up my vote with a convincing case, and let him get away with it - for example, you, in the last game we played over at 'news together

The problem is that most of the town has voted for Isaac and Morpheus, myself included, because they were both damn suspicious. There were very good reasons to find them suspicious and lynch them, and unfortunately they turned out to be townies. Given I myself voted for these two, I can't find them suspicious for doing the same.

2. It's been 2 days since mathcam voted. No one else has voted for MeMe since then. The mafia could easily have made at least 1 vote toward MeMe if mathcam is an innocent in those two days, unless either MeMe or mathcam is scum.

But put in context, there haven't been a whole bunch of posts or votes going anywhere in the last two days.

I honestly don't think your case against mathcam and MeMe is convincing - it's based on the assumption that all three mafia are waiting in the sidelines to pounce, and can do so faster than mathcam could unvote. As such I think the most likely scenario is that you're mafia befuddling us with false logic and hoping that a townie or two comes down on the wrong (read: either) side of the fence so you + active mafia buddy can vote for the win.

[Spoon]

Now, I'm getting really suspicious of Dasquian.

Dasquian - He is either pro-town, or rather clever mafia. I'm pretty sure it is the first

I'm starting to think he's rather clever mafia by now...

He started out with a random vote, then jumped on the Prizm bandwagon. Then, he tried to start a bandwagon against non-posters and he is eager to get sbdirt voted for lurking (even after he posts, he continues voting). After that, the sbdirt bandwagon isn't going anywhere and he decides to help getting Isaac lynched (but he jumps over to Morpheus in the end).

On day two, he helps lynching Morpheus. (Just as about everyone else)

So far, he's been jumping around a lot, but not extemely suspicious. However, then comes day three:
First, he says sbdirt is suspicious, and that we should have lynched him (of course, it might have been better then lynching one of our townies). Then, he proceeds to say I'm most suspicious to him.
However, in his next post, he says nothing about this suspicion, and suddently votes Prizm, for not helping to lynch townies.
Also, he is somerwhat eager to defend mathcam and MeMe, saying that they aren't suspicious. As has been pointed out by Prizm, they both are. It is not true that either of them has to be mafia, but that does not mean they are not both possible mafia.

He does say sbdirt is suspicious for lurking, and that I'm rather suspicious for saying that lynching lurkers isn't good. Well, it isn't. If sbdirt keeps lurking, he should be replaced, not lynched.

Right now, I think he is our best lead. Especially your whole case against sbdirt strikes me as utmost suspicious.

Vote Dasquian

.

EWP: Yes, gut feelings

can

be correct. That does not mean they are good reason to lynch someone. Also, there is a chance that the mafia would at least try to pile on MeMe if she was innocent. It is true that Prizm's case against them is not all that convicing, but that does not mean that he is scum.

[Dasquian]

Also, he is somerwhat eager to defend mathcam and MeMe, saying that they aren't suspicious. As has been pointed out by Prizm, they both are. It is not true that either of them has to be mafia, but that does not mean they are not both possible mafia.

Of course they're possible mafia, as is anyone, but Prizm's logic is highly,

highly

flawed. It depends on the assumption that all 3 mafia will leap on a vote for a townie started by a townie which, as I've demonstrated, just doesn't work. It's wrong. It's false. It's a bad argument.

Right now, I think he is our best lead. Especially your whole case against sbdirt strikes me as utmost suspicious.

Yo, buddy. "Best lead" isn't good enough, as if we get it wrong this is our last day. You'd better not be trying to suggest another "hey ho, well if we get it wrong, there's always tomorrow" style lynching, because that's sure what it sounds like.

Prizm, Spoon and sbdirt for mafia - sound convincing, anyone?

[mathcam]

MeMe, what can I say? I'm picking up a strong evil vibe from you, and that's all the justification I have for my vote. I'd hardly call my quote on Morpheus "pulling strings"... I was neither the instigator of the argument now an adamant pursuer the next day (as opposed to your "this seems obvious" qualification). And I wasn't blaming you for lynching townies...even if you were mafia, you wouldn't have known whether you were targeting townies or SKs or something else. I was on the bandwagon just like everyone else. Yeah, they looked suspicious, and yeah, you were a large part of the reason why they looked that way to me, but they

were

still townies.

Cam

[MeMe]

Cam: As a believer in "vibe" and "guts," I can't fault you for expressing what they're telling you. But to act on them when we're in a probable lynch-or-lose situation -- and before we've even got any real discussion in -- is sloppy behavior at best, perilous at worst, for a pro-town role. This is the biggest reason that I'm having a difficult time believing that you're pro-town.

New Topic

: This is the most fractured Day 3 I think I've ever seen in a mini. The vote count (unofficial, of course) looks like this:

MeMe

(1):

mathcam

Prizm

(1):

Dasquian

mathcam

(1):

Prizm

Dasquian

(1):

Spoon

I vote for mass role claims. Might not help...but it certainly couldn't hurt. I also think that we need to get sbdirt replaced immediately. I think it's highly likely that the reason we're not seeing any mini-wagons yet today is, as Dasquian suggested, that he's mafia and AWOL.

I'm a townie.

[Prizm]

Dasquian: Gut feeling is also wonderful reasoning for a mafia: It requires no explanation, no one questions it, and if it's early on, you can just say, "I guess my gut feeling was wrong."

Also, why is it such a stretch of the imagination to think that if MeMe were innocent and mathcam was also innocent, that the mafia would at least TRY to at least present a reasonable case against MeMe? Were I scumin that situation, that's what I'd try to do.

But maybe the mass-roleclaim will get some stuff out: I'm also a townie.

[Prizm]

er hmmm...Just realized that the mass roleclaim probably won't accomplish anything at all, since everyone will probably claim townie, unless there's some other role than doc, cop, mafia, and townie. Given that this is Vanilla Mafia, I think that's all we're going to have, so this mass roleclaim won't do anything.

[CoolBot]

mathcam has been laying low all game and only voting late. Now, on Day 3, when it's likely lynch or die, he votes in the very first post of the day. In the question of mathcam vs. MeMe as scum, mathcam is certainly the more suspicous.

This is pointed out. Dasquian immediatly jumped to his defense, and in the process becomes confused who he's suspicous of. This is pointed out, and returns to his early stance of lynch the lurker. This is an extremely bad idea. Lurkers are the least of our problems with probably three mafia running around.

In my opinion, mathcam and Dasquian are mafia. I'd vote them now, but I can't discount the fact the mafia have been away from their computers due to Thanksgiving. So right now,

fos: mathcam & Dasquain

.

[Dasquian]

I'm a townie too.

Coolbot: you're right, I have been quite defensive of mathcam this game. The thing is, there was a dumb ass case against him on page 2 about him daring not to be around at the weekend and people trying to get him lynched for that, and when I see idiot bandwagons, I point them out. I'd do it again. Day 3, I see another blatently flawed bandwagon against both mathcam and MeMe which screams out "one of these must be mafia - but which one!!!", hoping that we'll concentrate on the second part but not question the first.

I stand by my attitude that if we had lynched sbdirt then the town would be in a far stronger position now, and that he had the opportunity to either post something of value or ask to be replaced on about page 4/5, and did neither.

And that's the problem really. We have sbdirt which no-one knows anything about. He could be mafia, could be innocent. Who knows. On day 1, voting for Isaac was such a gimme, I'm actually more suspicious of Prizm for sitting back going "oho, I know he isn't mafia - oh what, know I don't

know

, I just have these vibes, see?". I can't blame anyone else for voting Isaac because it wasn't a very hard lynch. Ditto with Morpheus - day 2 went too quickly, which I'm as much to blame for as anyone else, and we didn't learn anything. Morpheus acted suspiciously (nudged on by Spoon), and we all decided the eager newbie act was a sham... it wasn't, but again it was a bandwagon that was going to complete itself without mafia assistance.

So what's the upshot? Day 3 in a town where the mafia have been very lucky with their kills, and where the lynches we so straightforward that we can say very little about the alive players. Suspect me if you want, but I'm happy with my vote and my play this game, for the most part. If mathcam or MeMe

are

mafia (which I'm not ruling out, I'm just deprioritising over better leads), then they've got me fooled.