Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[NJAC]

How so? How does the blocker affect scums?

Three scums, six players... it's autowin for them, no?

P-Edit: So, if you're town you're just giving up? I'm letting you know, I'll lynch you.

[Smashbard]

There can't be three scum because with 6 players left alive that's 3 scum to 3 town, so Town wouldn't be able to lynch Scum. That's the whole win condition that scum have, to equalize their numbers with the town for the win.

So it is quite literally, absolutely impossible for their to be three scum.

I still don't understand why that requires two roleblockers when one is sufficient, and so far there is no other power roles in this game beyond a second roleblocker and a scumkill that the roleblockers could of stopped anyway. Since they can't stop the Masons from talking by roleblocking.

There HAS to be something else going on here. Unless somehow there are two scum and an SK and we have a hidden Doctor/Roleblocker that has consistently prevented a kill from going through EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

But without any indication otherwise, no more claimed power roles, all of the roleblockers refused to claim their roles before death, no investigative help, there is NO way to tell what is going on. So all we have to go on is what our reads for who the two remaining scum are.

So here goes:

Players Lists of Suspected Scumteams:

Smashbard: Buldermar & Numbers.

NJAC: Buldermar & Numbers. Maybe Locomotion.

Locomotion: Buldermar. No other stated reads.

Buldermar: No stated reads.

Papums Rat: No stated reads.

Numbers: No stated reads.

[TheLocomotion]

If you guys are going to lynch me no matter what, I'm not going to waste my time trying to defend myself or re-reading the game to figure out who the actual scum are, so make up your mind and let me know when you've done so.

So scummy to just give up like this.

[TheLocomotion]

UNVOTE:
While I talk to Hiraki

[Smashbard]

Holy shit....


Locomotion is scum.

Vote: Locomotion

Based on TBM's case on Hiraki, Greygnarl instantly buddying Rat because of Rats skepticism of TBM in order to get him lynched, Dividizzle being killed due to Buldermars correct assumption that if TBM is town, than Dividizzle would be confirmed town, and the fact that I personally don't think it makes sense for Rat & Numbers to be the scum together and make the type of intelligent decisions they have, considering Rat was originally NewbJun.

I don't believe Rat is scum with Locomotion, I believe he was manipulated by Greygnarl and town buddied into finishing the TBM lynch because that was the most likely person to be lynched beyond Hiraki himself that day.

Buldermar wouldn't kill Dividizzle because he spent so much time trying to help confirm Dividizzle if TBM were to flip town. He would of known TBM's flip and wouldn't of slipped like that trying to help us realize Dividizzle could be town after TBM's flip. I don't believe he would of backed himself into that narrow of a corner and make himself look so suspicious so close to a scum victory for his team.

Numbers is the scumbuddy for following the similar strategy of actively lurking throughout the game, posting only fluffy theories and analysis that didn't help to advance any lynches or scumhunting in a meaningful way. He's went so far as to say we should be lynching people who have not replaced out at this point. Which has no basis on scumhunting at all.

Not to mention the killing of Slandaar Night 1 fresh off his replacing in. He was SUPER active upon replacing in, and the second Slandaar, the only guy who was pushing Numbers harder than anyone else was gone, he has been less active than Hiraki, which is very surprising.

A lot of this is my fault, because I have allowed Numbers and Hiraki to lurk in this game knowing that I have been doing their jobs for them, aggressively mislynching so much this game. So I do take responsibility for my actions. And I think it's time I began rectifying those mistakes by getting rid of Locomotion and Numbers, the two people that TheButtonmen was saying for sure have been our scum since he replaced in.

[Smashbard]

Not to mention the fact that after I had already made amends with TBM and Buldermar about my prior screw ups this game, Greygnarl thought it important to CONTINUALLY try and discredit anything I had to say as relevant or legitimate.

I told you that anyone continuing this line of reasoning would be scum to me and I would not be joining any of their wagons. So that's just another reason I believe this newly formed Locomotion to be scum.

TBM was right, I only realized it too little too late. But I'm not going to allow his sacrifice to be meaningless. I highly suggest NJAC & Buldermar to join me on this. Depending on Rat and Numbers reactions to the wagon that will definitively let us know which one is Locomotions scumpartner.

[NJAC]

Wait a min... again, why is buldermar clear?

[NJAC]

Dividizzle was obvtown when he didn't hammer, right? But now, the reasons for what he was obvtown are pointless, because they were based on the assumption that there were three scum and we were in mylo, right? Anyway killing a conftown is not a bad move for scums, is it? So I don't see why buldermar wouldn't kill him.

[Smashbard]

Mostly because I don't believe Buldermar would posit such an idea suggesting that if TBM is town, that Dividizzle was town, and that if TBM was scum, Dividizzle was scum. If he were scum he pretty much would of FORCED himself to kill Dividizzle, because he backed himself into a corner where it didn't make sense to kill anybody else because of his own clearing of Dividizzle.

Dividizzle wasn't cleared town until AFTER TBM was lynched. Because you still hammered TBM under the assumption that TBM was scum, meaning that at that point in the game Dividizzle could of just been a scumbuddy unwilling to hammer.

If you believed Dividizzle was confirmed town by not voting TBM, why did you?

[Smashbard]

Granted this is all based on personal opinion, as I have no hard proof that Buldermar is town. But I think the evidence against Locomotion is a lot stronger. And the fact that TBM was 100% convinced that Hiraki was scum, I think we need to follow his line of reasoning and follow through with that lynch.

Either that or lynch Numbers. I think no matter which way you shake it, Bulderscum or Locoscum, Numbers is the common denominator of a scumpartner. Maybe he is the better lynch. But Locomotion is obviously the brains behind the operation, and I think he needs to go first.

[Smashbard]

In a nutshell. The evidence against Locomotion is actually evidence. All suspicions and defenses of Buldermar are WIFOM based on what we believe Buldermar would or wouldn't do in specific situations. The only one who could answer these suspicions for sure is Buldermar, but I think responding to WIFOM speculation is more distracting than helpful.

[NJAC]

You're right dividizzle became obvtown for everybody after TBM's flip because he didn't hammer, so read that like "Dividizzle was obvtown when he didn't hammer AND TBM FLIPPED TOWN". And I hammered because I was pretty sure TBM was scum, but looking it in hindsight it's obvious that numbers and/or TLM were pushing his lynch. Also, I suspected TBM even more when bulder was with him. Bulder voting him looked to me like bussing.

Off now, brb later... still think Bulder is scum and bulder/numbers or bulder/TLM makes sense, though bulder voting for Hiraki and TLM voting for Bulder looks a bit unnecessary for a scumpair (it's not like scums need to bus like that at this point I think), and considering greygnarl is kinda newb, I'm leaning more for bulder/numbers.

[mykonian]

votecount

thelocomotion (1): smashbard

not voting (5): 10506670, pappums rat, buldermar, NJAC, thelocomotion

With 6 players it is 4 to lynch (3 to no lynch)

deadline is on the 22 of november.

[Smashbard]

I'm down for a Numbers lynch mostly due to the fact that he is the common denominator in scum no matter if Buldermar or Locomotion is the scum partner. My problem comes from the fact that it isn't going to get us any closer to agreeing on who is scummier between Buldermar and Locomotion next day phase. But at this point I'd rather compromise and lynch for sure scum right now and try to sort out his scum partner tomorrow. So I would support a Numbers lynch.

[TheLocomotion]

If you're positive that Numbers is scum then why are you voting us? Also, bulder backing himself into a corner where he had to kill divid is stupid. He always could've killed you for being conftown. Plus, you have totally forgotten that scum try to use their knowledge to confirm townies which helps confirm them.

[Smashbard]

I'm not voting Numbers yet because I'd rather vote for the more dangerous scum partner, but will switch if the rest of the players agree that a Numbers lynch is a go.

[10506670]

Common denominator? You clearly got something wrong.

I can't say anything about NJAC. Literally nothing. I'm beginning to suspect buldermar to be sure, as trusting him as town has led to nowhere. But moreover, I want to purse Hiraki, my former scumread, who has now become TLM.

TLM and buldermar are my reads. Pappums and NJAC need more consideration.

[Smashbard]

Ballsy. Bussing either one of your suspected scumpartners just to potentially save your own skin.

Just Beginning to suspect someone at this point is rather silly, don't you think? It's been do or die for us for the past 3 day phases, and you're just now starting to finalize your suspicions? We should of lost days ago, and you still don't have something solid to go off of? Not to mention you self admittedly missed the previous two lynch discussions before TBM's death.

I mean come on man. If you're town you needed to step up two day phases ago. Is the best thing you've truly come up with after 73 pages "Buldermar & Hiraki are scum because they haven't replaced out yet"?

How are we supposed to trust that at this point?

[buldermar]

P-Edit: So, if you're town you're just giving up? I'm letting you know, I'll lynch you.

No, I'm not just giving up, I just don't want to waste more time on this game if I'm getting lynched regardless.

[buldermar]

There can't be three scum because with 6 players left alive that's 3 scum to 3 town, so Town wouldn't be able to lynch Scum. That's the whole win condition that scum have, to equalize their numbers with the town for the win.

Not as long as there is a role for town that potentially could block a night kill.

[buldermar]

If you guys are going to lynch me no matter what, I'm not going to waste my time trying to defend myself or re-reading the game to figure out who the actual scum are, so make up your mind and let me know when you've done so.

So scummy to just give up like this.

Lol, shut up. I have no case to defend myself against, just idiots deciding that I'm scum when it's blatantly obvious that I'm town. What do you suggest I do?

[buldermar]

A lot of this is my fault, because I have allowed Numbers and Hiraki to lurk in this game knowing that I have been doing their jobs for them, aggressively mislynching so much this game. So I do take responsibility for my actions. And I think it's time I began rectifying those mistakes by getting rid of Locomotion and Numbers, the two people that TheButtonmen was saying for sure have been our scum since he replaced in.

It is my fault too, and I'll obviously support lynching Loco+Numbers.

[buldermar]

If you're positive that Numbers is scum then why are you voting us? Also, bulder backing himself into a corner where he had to kill divid is stupid. He always could've killed you for being conftown. Plus, you have totally forgotten that scum try to use their knowledge to confirm townies which helps confirm them.

I didn't use scum-knowledge, I used logic - not something you could ever hope to understand, unfortunately.

[buldermar]

VOTE: TheLocomotion

I'm going to look over at least the past pages now.

[buldermar]

Eh, that will have to be later today. But I will dedicate some time to this game.