Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[pisskop]

Why do you suspect Aqua?

[Aquanim]

Well, you're going to have to justify that vote to the rest of the players here, even if you feel no need to justify it to me. I suggest you start now.

In the meantime, does anyone have any reason to think Aeronaut's town? If you do, I'd like to discuss it.

[InsidiousLemons]

What the actual fuck? You're not going to convince us of anything if you're not willing to justify your actions.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've already justified it.

There's two situations. You're either scumpartnered with Oddmusic, in which case this is a scum lynch. or you're making a ridiculous and half assed defense of him by attacking my judgement for no apparent reason, in which case you're still not helping town.

I'm happy lynching you either way.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is Day 2 of D1.

This is not LyLO, being super worried about a lynch that you don't want to be part of is not justified.

[Aquanim]

Or the third option, in which I am contesting a scum read which I either don't fully understand or don't agree with. (Or both.)

ninja edit: I'm not super-worried about the wagon on Oddmusic; it's a thing to be discussed (one of the few serious wagons to date) and I'm questioning your reasoning and motivations so as to discern your alignment.

[InsidiousLemons]

I don't really have a solid reason to think Aero's town. However, I don't have any solid reason to believe the reverse, either. There are better D1 lynches.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not super-worried about the wagon on Oddmusic; it's a thing to be discussed

I see where y'all be coming from on the Oddmusic tone read but I'm not quite sold. So far as I can tell Oddmusic has no completed games onsite so a bit of timidity is not entirely unexpected. (I'm not saying it makes him town, I'm saying it's believable from town.) RadiantCowbells' #154 and #155 were quite belligerent, and on that grounds I can kind of understand why oddmusic might have "overreacted" in #156.

Why don't I like this?

1) Noncommittal. You didn't take a stance on Oddmusic's towniness.
2) It's attempting to push people off the wagon while 1) is true.
3) Besides calling me belligerent, you say very little about me then try to act like it's about me.

Looks like soft distancing to me and I don't like it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sadly, I'm still getting a townread from you, but until I don't have a problem with what you're doing I'm going to vote you as priority.

[RadiantCowbells]

Especially since a scumflip on Music wouldn't say much about you but a scumflip on you would say a hell of a lot about music.

[Aquanim]

I don't really have a solid reason to think Aero's town. However, I don't have any solid reason to believe the reverse, either. There are better D1 lynches.

Unlike some of the other likely-looking wagons today, Aeronaut has played a decent amount, which means he has both experience and a meta. A brief read over his previous games indicated to me that his lacklustre contributions so far (IIRC everything game relevant he's said so far had already been said) is more consistent with his scum-game than his town-game.

[Aquanim]

So... you're townreading me (#208), but you're voting me based on a preflip association case (#209) which assumes that I am scum? (yes, and some policy thing about me disagreeing with your case)

That doesn't make any sense. I don't know whether not making any sense makes you scum, unfortunately.

With respect to #207: I am indeed not townreading or scumreading Oddmusic. I am scumreading Aeronaut. Therefore, I'd much prefer to see votes on Aeronaut as opposed to Oddmusic.

[Aeronaut]

I apologize everyone, I'm going to have to replace out.

Sorry Monkey, I really didn't anticipate having to flake, but real life is giving me some troubles, and I can't really keep up as it is now. Doing it now while there's so few pages so that you'll get an easy replace.

Real Sorry!

[Aeronaut]

And before I go, just reading the last page, please lynch Aqua for trying to lynch a lurker slot 9 pages into the game.

[pisskop]

Aero's posts didn't strike me as scum here, btw. His scum game is to fake content, not lurk.

[InsidiousLemons]

And there we have it, I was getting a flaky, vague town read on him. I think we can let this go until a bit after the replacement arrives, yes?

[RadiantCowbells]

With respect to #207: I am indeed not townreading or scumreading Oddmusic. I am scumreading Aeronaut. Therefore, I'd much prefer to see votes on Aeronaut as opposed to Oddmusic

Okay, now you're firmly in my scumpile.

Thanks for clarifying.

#172 makes it very clear that you consider Oddmusic town, which didn't fit into the rest of your reads and caused my confusion. Now that you've clarified that you claim to townread him, I can rest easy knowing you're scum.

[Aquanim]

I still can't say I like the slot for town, but not having time would explain un-useful play.

Ninja edit: Lovely. I've seen games compromised by replacers talking about their reads and play so I'll wait to discuss this with your replacement.

[Aquanim]

With respect to #207: I am indeed not townreading or scumreading Oddmusic. I am scumreading Aeronaut. Therefore, I'd much prefer to see votes on Aeronaut as opposed to Oddmusic

Okay, now you're firmly in my scumpile.

Thanks for clarifying.

#172 makes it very clear that you consider Oddmusic town, which didn't fit into the rest of your reads and caused my confusion. Now that you've clarified that you claim to townread him, I can rest easy knowing you're scum.

On the contrary. #172 made it very clear that I didn't think much of the arguments thus far raised that Oddmusic was scum. That's not the same thing as positively thinking he's town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh no that's what you were saying and it was ambiguous until you explicitly claimed that you didn't townread them.

Cognitive dissonance is a great thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've seen games compromised by replacers talking about their reads and play so I'll wait to discuss this with your replacement.

I thought you scumread that person? You are talking to them like they're town.

[Aquanim]

Well, I just told you what I believed at the time I wrote #172, and the honest opinion which I attempted to convey. If you don't believe that, then I don't think there's any point in my discussing this further.

I've seen games compromised by replacers talking about their reads and play so I'll wait to discuss this with your replacement.

I thought you scumread that person? You are talking to them like they're town.

Speaking to people as if they're scum doesn't generally get me a courteous and useful response.

I once ran a game in which a scum player "confirmed" themselves as town with statements after they publicly requested replacement. It was a gnarly problem to deal with and I'd not like to see it repeated whatever Aero's alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, that's not the way you're talking though.

You say one thing but claim you mean another but I think you're just scum.

[InsidiousLemons]

Radiant, I'm sorry, it's late, I'm not thinking very critically right now. At some point soon would you mind consolidating your thoughts on Aqua into one post? This janky argument style is hard for me to keep up with right now.

[eektor]

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

He was clearly joking when he said that. You even asked if his vote was RVS or not. If you actually believed that it was possible he investigated mykonian pregame, you would have made a bigger stink over it and made him explain himself.

Then when he (again, jokingly) replies that his vote isn't RVS, you ask him seriously why he would unvote someone he knows to be scum. But then in your next post, which contains all your reads, you don't even mention TheDudeAbides.

It just doesn't seem like a logical thought process for town. To me, it seems like scum who is hesitant and unsure of how to deal with someone claiming things that you already know the answer to.

I'm sorry but I just don't see that as a joke. When I asked to make sure his vote was RVS, he said no. I take that as he had a reason to vote for mykonian. And I didn't put him on my reads because I'm still figuring him out.

Now I don't see how you can think my actions with him are scum motivated. Wouldn't scum who knew he had to be joking just let it slide rather than confront him to make sure he was actually doing an RVS instead of a real vote? Also, so your motivation to vote me had nothing to do with my reads and vote on oddmusic and solely on my interaction with the dude?