Micro 640: Perfect Cherry Blossom (Game Over)

[beeboy]

UNVOTE: Pie

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 1.03

Wisdom (1):

Vedith

beeboy (1):

pieguyn

Vedith (2):

Edosurist, thenewearth

Luna Fox (2):

Wisdom, DarkLightA

Not Voting:

Luna Fox, zMuffinMan, beeboy

With

9

votes,

5

votes to lynch

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-01 22:43:43).

[beeboy]

I am sorry I can't do this right now replace me

[Edosurist]

Alright guys. Reading now

[Edosurist]

Edos: I didn't go out of my way to question your vote because I didn't feel like going out of my way to influence RVS in a major way, simple as that; I decided I'd approach it by sitting back and seeing if you explained it at some point unprompted, or how other people would react to it, or things like that.

I find that a lot of the time if I start jumping at shit in RVS it does nothing but cause a huge distraction, which while that in itself can be productive for generating reads, I just had no energy and didn't feel like it;

I find it equally as effective for my own reads to just wait until people start doing things I find significantly alignment-indicative.

I mean if this is how you normally play, sure. Also I gotchu on the lack of energy.

I don't like the way that Edos switched from me onto Vedith. in the first place, your reason for voting me was actually pretty serious as far as RVS reads go; why would you give that up to push a smaller wagon, based on what only could have been troll/non-serious posts, without getting what you were looking for from me first (there is no way you could have, since I hadn't posted anything at all in between those posts)?

Yeah, sure, as far as RVS goes, it was serious. I think I'm still allowed to go after someone else if I want to, especially if people will join me. Your wagon had peaked so I was happy starting a new one. As I said at the time, I still thought you were scum (no longer do, because you say that's how you normally play).

You also wanted my reasons for voting Vedith. Here's a running list.
1. Initially, it was because I wanted to get him to actually do something useful.
2. His attitude and the time and still now suggested scum to me.
3. !!wagons!!
4. He has yet to really do anything "useful" besides call Wisdom scum and defend himself against DLA (I'll note the defense was unprompted, but that's not alignment indicative).
5. His scumread on Wisdom is pretty bad. Like, really bad. Also his only scumreads are on people who have attacked him, which is also bad. It shows he isn't making an effort to do anything himself.

I'm looking forward to Vedith returning.

[Edosurist]

UNVOTE:

It scares me that neither of you two are on vedith's wagon.

Does this still hold now that the two "conftowns" have given up their mason claim?

I actually got prodded on a GiF game holy shit

You gonna do anything at all?

[Luna Fox]

Yeah, these 2 votes on me make me even less motivated to even bother trying. Specially after I had already said i wouldn't have much time for this game.

[Vedith]

DLA I am not a mason with Luna btw just so you can scum hunt normally.

wow, what a shocking turn of events. did not see that coming

VOTE: luna

Oppornist in the making, eh?
Anyone reading Wisdom at town let me know why, thanks.

[DarkLightA]

Why are you it reacting to my vote, Vedith?

[Vedith]

Why are you it reacting to my vote, Vedith?

Because you're a shit player and it's NAI when it's from you.

[DarkLightA]

I see

[Wisdom]

DLA I am not a mason with Luna btw just so you can scum hunt normally.

wow, what a shocking turn of events. did not see that coming

VOTE: luna

Oppornist in the making, eh?
Anyone reading Wisdom at town let me know why, thanks.

Like i said in the post after that quote got there by mistake. I had already said luna was feeling scummy

[thenewearth]

Really?

Again?

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: thenewearth

[pieguyn]

I would vote TNE. I would not vote Luna.

I would prefer Edos to either of those, I think.

[pieguyn]

she feels more aggressive than i'm used to her being

not sure what to make of it so far, so i'm kind of just waiting to see where she goes from here

I'm curious to know where you're getting this impression of my play from. you're correct to say that I prefer to be in the forefront and generating discussion, when I actually have strong leads on things that I can point out and generate discussion about and I have enough energy to do it. I'm a lot more ambivalent on it in RVS/early game, since there isn't much of a reason for it and forcing discussion that early in the game can easily backfire: what happened at the start of Forest Fire and my early read on Cake-kun in the summer waltz game are two examples of that approach early game going horribly wrong OTOH.

I'd also like to hear more about Wisdom's read on me.

[pieguyn]

You also wanted my reasons for voting Vedith. Here's a running list.
1. Initially, it was because I wanted to get him to actually do something useful.
2. His attitude and the time and still now suggested scum to me.
3. !!wagons!!
4. He has yet to really do anything "useful" besides call Wisdom scum and defend himself against DLA (I'll note the defense was unprompted, but that's not alignment indicative).
5. His scumread on Wisdom is pretty bad. Like, really bad. Also his only scumreads are on people who have attacked him, which is also bad. It shows he isn't making an effort to do anything himself.

can you elaborate more on points 2 and 5 here?

I have the exact opposite impression of his attitude that you seem to have; I think the way he's continuing to be so openly antagonistic after getting near universally pressured for it, which he's continued to do even in his most recent post to DLA, looks town, and I think his conviction looks town, and in general I think it looks a lot more like town hoping to make a huge splash and sort through his wagon and get a push going elsewhere as opposed to scum just flinging shit everywhere and seeing what sticks. and I've explained what I think about his Wisdom read already: his premise is wrong but I don't think his thought process is unreasonable, given the premise. do you disagree, or is there more to it, or... ?

the point about him not doing anything useful is more OK, I guess, but I don't think he's the kind of player who does anything particularly "useful" or forms really well thought-out reads regardless of alignment.

[pieguyn]

When a player isn't under pressure and I get a scumread, I will make a case. I will do so to persuade the other players that I am correct. If the person I am accusing wants to refute it, so be it, they are welcome to. If I am joining an established wagon, I will not make as strong a case, as a case already tends to exist in the gameplay. The precise problem I have with the way Vedith did it is that he said: "DLA - Go through this."

given how you've described your own play here, do you think it's that unreasonable that a town-Vedith would see it and think "oh, this person jumped onto my wagon and didn't give much of a reason for it; I should force him to explain it so I can figure out whether he's just town or he's taking advantage of everyone else pushing me"? I don't think it is and I tend to react in a similar way when I get wagoned as town and feel like some of the votes on me are bullshit (either in an attempt to sort town/scum or otherwise try to get people talking about it so I can convince them they're wrong).

I don't think that even *if* Vedith is scum, he's scum for this; I think if he's scum the way he's going about this is more an attempt at emulating this behavior than any attempt at misdirection, and thus it's a null tell. is there more to this that I'm not getting?

[thenewearth]

what little motivation I had actually went bye bye :/

[beeboy]

I am sorry I can't do this right now replace me

@mod Can I undo this? ._.

[pieguyn]

what little motivation I had actually went bye bye :/

if this was in response to me, I don't intend to lynch you for lurking; I would, on the other hand, lynch you for continuing to do this and not doing anything even while you are here.

1. can you explain your Vedith vote?

2. do you have any reads outside of Vedith?

[Edosurist]

Willing to vote TNE if she's going to continue doing nothing.
Not feeling the luna wagon. I've got a null read on her.
Pie is town.

@pie
I'm not sure how much there is to elaborate on, honestly.
2. I don't think he's trying to sort out his wagon. If you want some recent evidence, take him not responding to my last post or his 209. Beyond that, the rest of my/our opinions on his play are gonna be pretty subjective. If you want me to go on, I can, but it's really just gut right now.
5. What are you calling the premise exactly? I think it's that Wisdom is lazy as town (99) and would not end the day early as town (101). I mean, if that's what the premise is, sure it's fine as an RVS vote. A legitimate vote on Wisdom instead of DLA, who it looks like he had actual concerns on according to the first part of 99, is just stupid. That's why I'm not taking it as an RVS vote. I see where you're coming from, trying to look at the intentions more, but I just don't believe he can have that as a serious scumread.

Also, if you think his playstyle is not "useful," I'm willing to drop that part. At least he's been more useful than other people I can think of >.>

[Edosurist]

@Mod:

How many prods does TNE have? Post 202 suggests she has a second one now.

@All: Reason I'm asking is cuz if she already has two, she gets removed for one more so I can deal with waiting till she gets replaced.

[Edosurist]

@DLA

UNVOTE:

It scares me that neither of you two are on vedith's wagon.

Does this still hold now that the two "conftowns" have given up their mason claim?

[Vedith]

Aw man, Pirguyn just called me useless in a nice way...
@Edo - My original vote was obviously RVS. However, my opinion that Wisdom is scum is currently the case.

Why do you not comment on 57 though, considering you have concern on me calling Wisdom scum so early?
I give no backing to Pieguyn there and basically, it looks like an easy place to push as scum with others, wouldn't you agree? Doesn't that post in particular ping you like my others are?

And once again, you are basically telling me to scum read DLA instead of Wisdom for their votes, tell me, why is Wisdom so dear to you this game? I mean, if you're not scum, he's done something very town like which you can explain, correct? I can't see any other reason for someone to be so insecure about me pushing there.

While you're at it, explain why DLA is town 76, because your 221 suggests strongly that he's done a scummy thing by following to the Luna vote.