Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[pirate mollie]

Triangulating doesn't seem good to me.

What is your opinion on it Jun?

interesting

why not

[Thurhame]

I can't keep up. I should not have started this game just as school was starting. I'm going to have to ask for a replacement. *sends pm to mod*

[Slandaar]

It is just a compromise lynch with a glorified name. Using it at end of day if needed is probably OK but I don't see a need for it when you should be compromising anyway at that point if not on the main wagons.

[pirate mollie]

It is just a compromise lynch with a glorified name. Using it at end of day if needed is probably OK but I don't see a need for it when you should be compromising anyway at that point if not on the main wagons.

you can derive a lot of info from triangulation attempts as in scum are usually pretty uncomfortable with it since it provides town accountability and it has the potential of town working together.

but okay. you don't want to do this I guess.

[Slandaar]

Who do you think is scum Mollie?

[Slandaar]

Unvote.

Vote: NJACK

Hello Smash

Why are you voting NJAC?

[dividizzle]

Unvote
Vote: Eleison

Sorry if this has already been mentioned as I read a little bit briefly while catching up but I am suspicious of Eleison's firm approval of Maenara's scum, town, inactivity list, given the fact that he is listed as number two on that list.

@Eleison: if you like those lists, how do you explain you appearing as scum to him?

[pirate mollie]

Who do you think is scum Mollie?

maenara and strangely telo come to mind. I don't like the way that eleison keeps shutting down the convo but I think it is an inexperienced player who will play more like an indie than to know how to cooperate with town.

thurhame stands out by his

not standing out

.

you thinking triangulation was not a good idea clanged.

are you still on with the PM lynch. to be honest I would like to hear as to why they have a bad rep.

[Eleison]

Unvote
Vote: Eleison

Sorry if this has already been mentioned as I read a little bit briefly while catching up but I am suspicious of Eleison's firm approval of Maenara's scum, town, inactivity list, given the fact that he is listed as number two on that list.

@Eleison: if you like those lists, how do you explain you appearing as scum to him?

First off, I brought back my post to highlight that I think the quality of the post is the strong point. I pointed out that his understanding of me being scum was presumptuous, and I put my thoughts up against both points which were made against me, and designated me as scum. I don't know how to make it more clear; maybe I could say it like "i am not scum. Your reasons, while argued well and holding proper grammar, are still flawed in the mind of the person you are accusing". If I look like scum because my very first post on page 1 appeared to have rolecrumbs in it, then I dunno...I'd really consider the likelyhood and legit possibility of that even occurring.

And while I don't agree with all of her points, as I said, I agree with the point against NJAC. While my vote was sitting on Shinori, Mae came up with an argument that was more than half-assed, !!and made sense!! (big one here), so I voted. I later realized that telo was acting more like what I'd expect scum to act like, so I moved my vote. I haven't given up on NJAC, and unless something changes, d2 will have my vote parked on him.

Here, read below, now that I restated my thoughts on Mae's post.

I'm really having trouble getting any reads on quite a few of the players here. However, after doing a few Isos in a feeble attempt to be able to do anything at all, here's what I've got.

Spoiler: Town (Strongest to weakest)

Hikari
evilpacman18
Slandaar
McStab
Smashbard
Telo
Thurhame
Jun

Spoiler: Scum (Strongest to weakest)

NJAC
Eleison
pirate mollie
Jun
Theomoaner

Spoiler: Needs more activity

Dividizzle
Shinori
PMysterious

Why, then, do I vote for Pirate Mollie? Because she's bad for town. Like, terribad. In all seriousness, I don't get why she's allowed to continue to exist. She's slinging around accusations based on concepts she clearly doesn't understand, she was straight up lying, concerning me "fading", and she's trying to game the mod. It's just not something we should allow to continue. If not a lynch, I plead for any hypothetical vigilante or similar to put her out of our misery - I know that some might say that her flailing will allow us to determine her alignment on a later day, but all too often, on other sites, I've seen hordes of people with play so bad that one cannot possibly tell their scum from their town, because both are just that anti-town. She really is the typical VI.

And if not Pirate Mollie, then NJAC or Eleison. For the latter, a policy lynch would be appropriate, what with deliberately causing anti-town WIFOM with the hinting and all, as well as the theorycrafting. As for the former...

Look at his ISO. He is definitely not saying enough, chooses to defend a person he sees is under attack in Uuorder to establish later town-cred. When then accused of this, he keeps doing it in order to not attract attention by altering his play, but still defends himself against the allegations, before proceeding to... Vote for the person attacking his accusor, calling said person opportunistic and then being so himself?

Methink this is scum trying to establish some town cred for later use.

I genuinely like this quality of post, and find it to be accurate and holding a fair stance on opinions, and backing up a vote with good logic, in a,nonaggressive way. And tbh, you have me convinced on NJAC. While my thoughts are aimed at intentionally inactive Shinori, and pretty much anyone who uses novicedom as an excuse for innocence (as I've called out before), I am drawn to your accurate argument on the ever-so defensive vote of NJAC.

Mae made probably the best Quality post of this game thus far. I'd post far more like this, but the amount if oversensitivity combined with inactivity in the this game irked me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NJAC

On the flipside; Mae, I really don't understand how you think me, or anyone for that matter, would crumb a role within the first page of the game, unless it was an antitownrole (in which, it would be wiser to out that on d1 asap, imo). When I said plan, it was in regards to reaction fishing and ending RVS more quickly, and at the time, it was simple RVS for a small collective of the players here. Heck, it was meant to draw attention and speculation yes, but in a way that a bulldozer blasts through a grocery store wall. In an effort to draw attention, discussion was generated towards me, which led to responses, and our game built off of that. Perhaps it was not the best way to kill rvs before it started, but you can't deny that I failed in my goal.

Do you see now, upon rereading, that I didn't just go "oh mae, Uu are so beautiful and you are so smart, I agree with everything you said about everyone"?

[pirate mollie]

Who do you think is scum Mollie?

maenara and strangely telo come to mind. I don't like the way that eleison keeps shutting down the convo but I think it is an inexperienced player who will play more like an indie than to know how to cooperate with town.

thurhame stands out by his

not standing out

.

you thinking triangulation was not a good idea clanged.

are you still on with the PM lynch. to be honest I would like to hear as to why they have a bad rep.

looking back on my notes I had mcstab's post #33 as a clanger cos it looks a bit like special hunting as in he is trying to see if PM will flail. (specials flail worse than scum do IMO)

I also spotlighted evilpacman in #53 - can't remember why and I had jun down as scum. I also wrote down asking why did hikari not follow up on his fos on mcstab.

[Eleison]

Can you say a tad bit more than nothing from now on?

IMPOSSIBRUUUU

And my weakly argued RVS (didn't realize they needed to be agued since they're random) will very likely stand for a few more days since I'm going to be V/LA (opening weekend for hunting) this weekend. So unless something big happens tomorrow my vote for Jun will probably be there until at least Monday.

Thanks for the clarification on your gender. I won't mistake that anymore. But to business.

So, you still have no major opinions on possible scum, and prefer to camp on your RVS vote that, by now, could have an attempted justification?

I'm not calling out that it was weakly argued RVS. RVS isn't really a strong argument. I'm calling out that your RVS is still your only vote, and you've managed to kinda sorta maybe point a finger at a few people. After 9 pages of activity. To add to that, you STILL have your vote on Jun, which at this point, has yet to be explained why. Why do you still have your RVS vote on Jun? Has nothing happened to this point that makes you want to shift your vote around? If you still think Jun is the scummiest person around, or at least is 100% worth your vote, could you at least say so? You haven't mentioned a notable case against Jun, so it's hard to really read your vote as justified when other players are easily able to form hard cases and justifiable reasoning. If anything, you camping on Jun since RVS indicates to me either apathy (antitown / scum), you know something we don't (scum), skimreading (antitown / scum), inactivity (null tell) or noviceness (null tell). I could go on, but I think you get my point.

Why did you ignore me Elie? You're off on your town meta and you are defintely being a lot more aggresive. Something about you seems off. Part of it is gut feeling.

However after ISOing you I find this wierd. You voted: Pm(RVS) - Me(Wanting me to say stuff) - NJAC(You said Mae had you convinced on this, feels like just sheeping) - SIX POSTS LATER you swap to TELO(You are supposedly voting because their only vote is RVS which I don't see as the best vote. Why not me in that situation? I've been less active and really don't have any sort of viable vote with reasoning down.)

Yeah. Your vote hop from NJAC to TELO is terrible and you defintely have my attention. I don't like it.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Eleison

I'm fine with this vote now and other people should hop onto this.

Hey look who made it to the party. Can you tell I'm on my phone, from the annoyingly long quote strings?

Ok so let me get this straight. My.first vote was ok in your mind.. Even my second, on you, was ok to you (scumslip anyone?) But my vote on you, the scummiest player I saw at the time, had gained ZERO ground, being changed to NJAC based on a compelling argument, is scummy? I really disagree with that. Then the move to Telo, who had contributed as much as you and still openly admits to not even trying to with on anything, is MORE SCUMMY? You find voting for a player, who reacts by reaffirming their lack of contribution, scummy? Look, your reactions were empty promises (which appear to no longer be empty now), his were utter nothingness (well, declaring v/la is fine I guess).

You can call me sheepy or w/e, if it helps you sleep at night, because of my initial njac vote (which I made PRIOR to iso'ing anyone). But tell me now, had I stayed on NJAC, would you have any opinions of him?

Please Shinori, c'mon. You say I'm off my meta. Where is your infamous beligerance that almost got you modkilled in our last game? Or...did you maybe decide to play a little bit more seriously? You have 14 other playerslots to look at. Do me a favor and acknowledge a few of them, before you jump down my throat for scumhunting "differently" or however you are interpreting my play.

[mykonian]

votecount

jun (3): Telo, theomoaner, evilpacman
PMysterious (3): mcstab, jun, slandaar
eleison (2): shinori, dividizzle
NJAC (2): maenara, smashbard
pirate mollie (1): thurhame
theomoaner (1): Hiraki
evilpacman (1): NJAC
telo (1): eleison

not voting (2): pmysterious, pirate mollie

[theomoaner]

...I hope it wasn't sarcasm.

Irrelevant because Thurhame couldn't handle playing as scum, but, It was.

Pirate: Your not a new player here->

hi guys!
new to the board not new to mafia.
...

But you are here->

I am new, telo is new (saw her in intros) and jun kind of reads as fairly new...

Even to the point of considering yourself low hanging fruit. You couldn't possibly be trying to hide something behind a facade of assumed newbyness could you. Especially when you consider the disscusion of theory, such as here-> post 214

@PMyst: Please either post something worthwhile or ask for a replacement.

@theomoaner: How many and what games have you played on this site before? I want links to all.

You're bossy aren't you?

"In post 208, Eleison"

So you took a vote off your top scum candidate to place it on a person lower down your list? --- Of course I'm only bringing this up to make it look like I'm try cover-up my "active ignorance" of posts that hiraki found scummy (for whatever reason), and is trying to add to his so-called "case" against me.
For case substitute tunnel-vision.

[Smashbard]

Slandaar, i'm going to ask you to refer to my post directly above my vote and that you pay attention from now on.

[Eleison]

Can you say a tad bit more than nothing from now on?

IMPOSSIBRUUUU

And my weakly argued RVS (didn't realize they needed to be agued since they're random) will very likely stand for a few more days since I'm going to be V/LA (opening weekend for hunting) this weekend. So unless something big happens tomorrow my vote for Jun will probably be there until at least Monday.

Thanks for the clarification on your gender. I won't mistake that anymore. But to business.

So, you still have no major opinions on possible scum, and prefer to camp on your RVS vote that, by now, could have an attempted justification?

I'm not calling out that it was weakly argued RVS. RVS isn't really a strong argument. I'm calling out that your RVS is still your only vote, and you've managed to kinda sorta maybe point a finger at a few people. After 9 pages of activity. To add to that, you STILL have your vote on Jun, which at this point, has yet to be explained why. Why do you still have your RVS vote on Jun? Has nothing happened to this point that makes you want to shift your vote around? If you still think Jun is the scummiest person around, or at least is 100% worth your vote, could you at least say so? You haven't mentioned a notable case against Jun, so it's hard to really read your vote as justified when other players are easily able to form hard cases and justifiable reasoning. If anything, you camping on Jun since RVS indicates to me either apathy (antitown / scum), you know something we don't (scum), skimreading (antitown / scum), inactivity (null tell) or noviceness (null tell). I could go on, but I think you get my point.

Why did you ignore me Elie? You're off on your town meta and you are defintely being a lot more aggresive. Something about you seems off. Part of it is gut feeling.

However after ISOing you I find this wierd. You voted: Pm(RVS) - Me(Wanting me to say stuff) - NJAC(You said Mae had you convinced on this, feels like just sheeping) - SIX POSTS LATER you swap to TELO(You are supposedly voting because their only vote is RVS which I don't see as the best vote. Why not me in that situation? I've been less active and really don't have any sort of viable vote with reasoning down.)

Yeah. Your vote hop from NJAC to TELO is terrible and you defintely have my attention. I don't like it.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Eleison

I'm fine with this vote now and other people should hop onto this.

Hey look who made it to the party. Can you tell I'm on my phone, from the annoyingly long quote strings?

Ok so let me get this straight. My.first vote was ok in your mind.. Even my second, on you, was ok to you (scumslip anyone?) But my vote on you, the scummiest player I saw at the time, had gained ZERO ground, being changed to NJAC based on a compelling argument, is scummy? I really disagree with that. Then the move to Telo, who had contributed as much as you and still openly admits to not even trying to with on anything, is MORE SCUMMY? You find voting for a player, who reacts by reaffirming their lack of contribution, scummy? Look, your reactions were empty promises (which appear to no longer be empty now), his were utter nothingness (well, declaring v/la is fine I guess).

You can call me sheepy or w/e, if it helps you sleep at night, because of my initial njac vote (which I made PRIOR to iso'ing anyone). But tell me now, had I stayed on NJAC, would you have any opinions of him?

Please Shinori, c'mon. You say I'm off my meta. Where is your infamous beligerance that almost got you modkilled in our last game? Or...did you maybe decide to play a little bit more seriously? You have 14 other playerslots to look at. Do me a favor and acknowledge a few of them, before you jump down my throat for scumhunting "differently" or however you are interpreting my play.

To further this, I can't really even tell if you are voting me for my meta. However, if my meta is affecting your opinion of me that much, then that's just a lazy reasoning backing your vote on me.

[dividizzle]

@Eleison: you're right I missed that little paragraph after your vote, sorry for the question you already addressed (serves me right for falling behind and catching up).

Unvote

I will do a reread tonight or early tomorrow morning.

[pirate mollie]

okay. I have been nightkilled in another game cos the SK is retarded but it has moved me into hyperdrive about this game. I am about to do a 180 on some of my reads maybe that will liven things up.

I am going to have to work backwards and weed out who I think is scummy by who is in my town list and who I am unwilling to lynch.

slandaar - for reasons already stated.
hiraki - cos I am trusting slandaar's read on him and I like some of his responses.
smashbard - cos who the heck votes based on their gut. town thats who. scum are too busy trying to come up with logical reasons for their very (usually) retarded votes. at the time smash voted for me I think he really wanted me lynched but I think the peptobysmal is working. smash let's kiss and make up and work together down the line! xx believe it or not I can be likeable at times.
maenara - I am thinking town cos she was the first to post a list in an organised manner. scum usually avoid lists cos it can often incriminate their teammates by who they have in their town pile and who they in their scum and how they stack them. her wanting me dead just to get me out of the game when she thinks I might possibly be town is super duper scummy it shows a complete lack of regard for a town win condition but I am leaning town. retarded town, but I am tentatively putting her in my town pile. (and no I am not calling you a retard, you seem pretty intelligent, but your reasoning is stunted)
eleison - nobody in their right minds would make such a spectacle of themselves if they were scum IMO. his scum buddies would be telling him to shut up by now cos he is drawing a lot of attention to himself and he really stands out.

those are the players I am unwilling to lynch at this time.

so that leaves:

evilpacman
mcstab
theomoaner
thurhame
NJAC
shinori
jun
pmysterious
telo
dividizzle

dividizzle - just feels right. it is the timing of his responses I think. I don't feel confident enough to move him to a solid town read but I am kind of leaning town on him and kind of want to put him in the above pile.
telo - makes me nervous. not sure why.
themoaner - didn't like how he tried to reframe my low hanging fruit thing I had going on with smash. I am not trying to paint myself as a newb if anything my confidence is probably off putting to some people. I am a newb to the site not new to mafia, but I still consider myself low hanging fruit since this is my first game on here and there is no meta. hiraki also made a good case for him making a RVP into a scumtell. I could get on board with his lynch.
pmysterious - I understand why slandaar is voting for him he needs to either be subbed out or start posting. avoiding the game thread when you are scum is a common thing when you are uncomforable with being scum. slandaar I will probably be voting with you. would like to hear the story about his rep though.
thurhame - his "oh hai!" post should have stood out but it didn't. his posts come across as neutral, not seeing a lot of commitment in them tbh.
evilpacman - all I have in my notes is that #28 is crap but I don't remember why.
jun - I had him down as scum but again I don't remember why.

evilpacman, jun and mcstab are the 3 players who's posts I am going to look at in isolation and do a think on for now.

that leaves shinori and RJAC...so guys whatsup? let's talk.

[NJAC]

After ISO'ing EPM, I think he's not as scummy as I thought, I want to understand why the Theomoaner wagon went down and why Hiraki didn't push the wagon further:

@Hiraki - Do you still have Theomoaner as your top scum read?

I'm a litlle bit confused, don't understand why the wagons aren't being pushed enough. Is it possible that scums are not pushing neither of the wagons? I guess I need to read a couple f ISO's.

UNVOTE: evilpacman

[NJAC]

I decided to read Slandaar ISO and although I need to read others, I see Slandaar is just an one-liner who comes from time to time, throws a couple of questions and leaves. I think he hasn't contributed a lot, but he wants to look like he's scumhunting. Not sure if that's the right way to scumhunt, but I see he just states a (almost obvious) town read on Hiraki, and says Mollie is leaning town, but withouth caring to explain too much. Maybe his best contribution is with the triangulation thing, when he says it's not necessary to do that this early. However Mollie is somehow trying to count on Slandaar to try that triangulating thing

I'll try this for now and will follow with that ISO thing:

VOTE: Slandaar

[NJAC]

@Mollie - your suspicions on me are based on gut, or what exactly is the case?

@Smashbard - I'd want you to fix your quotes in 220. But let's suppose I'm defending Jun, so you think that makes me scummy and makes Jun scummy by association, right? How often do scums defend their scumpartners in such a blatant way, according to your experience?

[NJAC]

BTW @Slandaar - Is lurking scummy? because I understand that's your main case on PM, am I wrong?

[pirate mollie]

@Mollie - your suspicions on me are based on gut, or what exactly is the case?

@Smashbard - I'd want you to fix your quotes in 220. But let's suppose I'm defending Jun, so you think that makes me scummy and makes Jun scummy by association, right? How often do scums defend their scumpartners in such a blatant way, according to your experience?

lol, I didn't state any suspicions I said whats up.

VOTE: NJAC

[Smashbard]

NJAC, it is commonly accepted that scum distance themselves day 1 to prevent connections. But I am thinking outside the box. If two new players are mafia, I believe they would defend one another to keep numbers strong.

[Smashbard]

So you defending Jun doesnt bother me that bad. But your constant need to say its not defending as you defend him looks like a bad job of protective distancing.

[Shinori]

eleison - nobody in their right minds would make such a spectacle of themselves if they were scum IMO. his scum buddies would be telling him to shut up by now cos he is drawing a lot of attention to himself and he really stands out.

You obviously don't know elie.

He does this stuff often, as in get attention on himself, and has done it as scum. Think this is his first game on Mafiascum so I wouldn't put it past this happening here.