Micro 121: SS9 (Game over!)

[Cheery Dog]

I think you're overly paranoid in the first place.

[Lincolm]

I think you're overly paranoid in the first place.

Yes, it is. I'm pessimist.

[implosion]

Vote count 1.6:

Wisdom - 3 (Kmd4390, Wickedestjr, Huntress)
Kmd4390 - 2 (Wisdom, Lincolm)
Malakittens - 1 (Cheery Dog)
Cheery Dog - 1 (Blueberry)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 2 weeks from this post, at 8:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2013-02-10 00:00:00).

[Wisdom]

Maybe it's just me, but I would have been a trifle irritated if I had logged in and found a pm sent because I hadn't posted in a game just a few hours old. Differing time zones mean not everyone's going to be available at the same time. Your action seemed premature.

Again, what I asked was not prods, it was DayStart pms. I wanted to make sure everyone knows the game started. I have seen cases where players don't know the game started until after a lot of pages, and it gets more difficult to read those players than if they had played from the beginning.

He never said he found the vote strange. That was your word, not his. And the "misrep" related to another point. Not this.

Explain how I misrepped him then. Also explain what I misunderstood, because he clearly said that he asked for a reasoning for an RVS vote because he came into the thread and saw a vote, and this made him curious. What am I missing?

So you expected people to ignore the only thing that was going on in the thread at the time and do what?

Anything except discredit the case and call it a joke. Plenty of things to do.

[theslimer3]

So Slimer because you don't like a question you are just not going to answer it?

Nicest way possible, but how old are you?

I'm 3, but I'm an adult because cats have shorter lifespans than humans.

Pssssssst. Huntress what is your read on me.

Null read so far but IGMEOY!

So then what's your read on me?

ALL OF YOU. WHAT'S YOUR READS ON MEEEEEE!?

How did we just call Super Saint to Super Saiyan? xD

Yessss ^

[Kmd4390]

Slimer, this may be outdated as it's way back on Page 4 but... you said lincolm was scummy because it's anti-town to self-vote and call for a hammer on yourself. Here is where you will make progress in growing as a player. Let's pretend lincolm is confirmed scum as a second. Ok, now why does he want to be lynched? See? It makes even less sense as scum than it does as town. It's actually a town tell even if it is bad play.

To clarify something, my "easy" comment meant the solution to someone refusing to hammer if we all told them to is easy. We lynch them the next day or we lynch them the same day if there is still time. The only time this doesn't work is LYLO.

Wicked, no. The fact that lincolm took your joke seriously isn't necessarily scummy. It's more the "oh shit" vibe I got from his post. However, I'm leaning town on him now. As for cheery, I don't remember him having a similar reaction to be honest. Even if he had taken it seriously, he wasn't mentioned in it, so that same "oh shit" isn't really possible from him unless the scum team is something like blue/linc/cheery in which case it would be worth going back to look at after a couple of scum flips. About scum opposing my plan, I see it as very likely that they try shooting it down if they can get away with it. The only way any obvtown players die with the game being nightless is if they hammer. If town is deciding who hammers, these players who would normally be NK'd stay alive. That means by Day 4, there are 3 players running around who would have been NK'd in a non-nightless. That should scare the crap out of scum.

Lincolm, you misunderstood me about the self-vote. It's the reason why I think you are town.

I know I haven't read everything yet, but my phone battery is almost dead and my girlfriend just got home so another time I guess...

[theslimer3]

Slimer, this may be outdated as it's way back on Page 4 but... you said lincolm was scummy because it's anti-town to self-vote and call for a hammer on yourself. Here is where you will make progress in growing as a player. Let's pretend lincolm is confirmed scum as a second. Ok, now why does he want to be lynched? See? It makes even less sense as scum than it does as town. It's actually a town tell even if it is bad play.

To clarify something, my "easy" comment meant the solution to someone refusing to hammer if we all told them to is easy. We lynch them the next day or we lynch them the same day if there is still time. The only time this doesn't work is LYLO.

If anyone knows about scummy play made into townplay, it's me.
In the last game we played together, ask wisdom, I've made multiple scumslips and accidents PURPOSELY just so I could look like noob scum. Even the stupidest move you could think of as scum could be seen as the scummiest, as is the smartest move as town could be seen as scummy. There's no boundary, that's why it's smarter as scum to just play without being so calculative.

Let's take a step back though.
Let's say I was about to get lynched at scum. The last thing I'd do is try to change my scummy mistakes. I'd bore it in and hope to get out off of it being considered a stupid move as scum.
And this is how I saw what he did. Absolutely no town out of that play whatsoever.

[Wisdom]

Everyone does not play the same, slimer. And you're wrong about your theory that everything is null - if it was so, we would just vote without discussing at all and just hope to get information from the flips.

[Kmd4390]

Wisdom, I have no idea where you make the leap from me wondering if a vote has a reason or not to me finding that vote strange. I just don't follow the process at all. Care to walk me through it? And yeah, I figured based on cheery's post that my plan isn't new. While I didn't know this, I'm not surprised. It's an open setup. There are all kinds of mafia minds looking for strategies and mine was so basic that I'm sure someone else could have come up with it at some point. When I said you should hammer lincolm, I still had a scum read on lincolm. As I got reading, I started to see lincolm as town. You'll notice if you go back that you conveniently forgot the part where I switch my vote to you and say I'm not sure on who should hammer. As for "killing" wicked's joke, I wasn't aware we had so many players who speak a primary language other than english, so I didn't know there was a chance people would believe it. I guess that's my bad, but I don't generally research playerlists before games.

Wait. You left a vote on someone who you thought was town (lincolm) at L-1 for reactions?!?!? Wow. Just wow.

One more thing. You say my plan seems "manipulative" and wanting to control the hammer. If that were the case, why would I effectively shift that control to the entire town rather than for example say that we appoint someone to decide and then try to make myself that person? If I were scum wanting control, it would make no sense to propose that we all discuss who hammers together.

I see you (wisdom still) say you've seen blue's scum play. Can you describe how he played in that game?

------

Lincolm, you don't think wisdom would be a thinker as scum too? Just as town? Wouldn't scum be more worried about a plan than town? Especially if it's a good plan?

You say something about me not calculating bad parts of my plan. Is it wrong to not think there's anything bad about it? The only things I've seen pointed out involve scum not hammering. I've already said that's taken care of by lynching those who refuse to hammer except in LYLO. Then there's your thing saying that scum can try to get town to hammer. No shit. Scum will also be trying to get town lynched (unless they bus). This is Mafia 101. Basic stuff. We can pick up tells on who wants who hammering just like we pick up tells on who wants who lynched.

Tell me post 122 is a "thinker" post. Seriously. Wisdom is so quick to dismiss it without even evaluating the post directly above his. He knows it's a good plan for town and doesn't want it in use. He's scum.

-------

Blueberry, I typically jump into a game pretty quickly as either alignment. Mala saw me do it as scum in artemis fowl and cheery saw me do it as town in best athletes. It's not a tell for me. Actually, slimer saw me do it as town in gorc's micro too.

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Huntress, yes, cheery could be trying to look town with the fake hammer. I considered that, but as I said, I don't think he's clever enough to do that. That's why I lean town on him.

---------

Lincolm, your description of the possibility of town refusing to hammer is exactly why it is anti-town to go against the plan as town. It eats up more deaths than we need. Well, actually, maybe it doesn't. Because in that situation, we are lynching someone who was going to die anyway.

-------

Blue,

what made that post by cheery "one of the worst you've seen"? I nodded in agreement as I was reading it.

<- oh you meant the mala thing and role question, not the plan stuff. Ok, I agree that was pretty bad. Not scummy, but bad.

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I don't like 158 by lincolm. You didn't read the town role you want us to believe is yours, but you read the whole scum role? Doesn't seem likely. Fuck. I want to believe you are town, but you are making it so hard. Everything about you is scum except the whole self-vote L-1 thing

-------

Wisdom, slimer is still a newbie.

I'm through page 7. Phone battery is shot again (only charged up to 50% last time). I want to finish this later today but no guarantees. I kinda feel like I want to switch back to lincolm but I'm kinda torn...

[theslimer3]

Everyone does not play the same, slimer. And you're wrong about your theory that everything is null - if it was so, we would just vote without discussing at all and just hope to get information from the flips.

I'm right. The information from voting random would be ignorant. We all don't have the same train of thought, obvious. But as far as logic comes to everyone atleast having a mindset against those who are against town-like, and for scum-like, are obviously around due to that principle

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, I have no idea where you make the leap from me wondering if a vote has a reason or not to me finding that vote strange. I just don't follow the process at all. Care to walk me through it?

Why did you want a reason for an RVS vote, that's what I asked you and you said you were curious. Why were you curious for an RVS vote? RVS is RVS, I don't understand how you're curious about RVS.

Wait. You left a vote on someone who you thought was town (lincolm) at L-1 for reactions?!?!? Wow. Just wow.

Yes. There was a reason Lincolm wanted to be at L-1, and that's reactions. I wanted to keep him at L-1 until his "plan" was over.

One more thing. You say my plan seems "manipulative" and wanting to control the hammer. If that were the case, why would I effectively shift that control to the entire town rather than for example say that we appoint someone to decide and then try to make myself that person? If I were scum wanting control, it would make no sense to propose that we all discuss who hammers together.

Because nobody would agree with it, duh. As it has already been said, scum will involve themselves in town's strategizing. That's what you're trying to do.

I see you (wisdom still) say you've seen blue's scum play. Can you describe how he played in that game?

He was somewhat overactive, questioning everything that was posted, trying to fake scumhunting, and didn't hesitate to vote his scumbuddy too. Doesn't look like this here, not that this means anything. Everyone doesn't play the same in all games.

Wisdom, slimer is still a newbie.

Yes, but not as newbie as he was. He has played some games now. If we allow him to slip by with using the newbie card again, we'll be foolish.

[Wisdom]

@slimer
I don't have a clue what you just said, but you're still wrong. And scum.

[theslimer3]

Wisdom, slimer is still a newbie.

Hey wait what? When did I get this tagged on me? >.>

@wisdom: Alright, that's it, no more buddy buddy with you.

At first you want to come into the game responding to a joke L-1 with a cautious "I don't want to die " speech, and now that you're getting some heat, you turn your head towards me like I'm an easy person to divert attention to (which I am, that's my play. But you of all people know that)
You're covering for Lincolm, who obviously made an extremely anti-town play, and blindly calling it a shot at information, when the whole thing could blow this game into red alert.
Not only that, you have audacity to consider me scum for breaking up his plan at 'gaining information', when it was more like a gamble than an attempt at searching. I am a gambling man, but something like that is against the odds that I'll stake for.
Afterwards you want to hop on him and put him back on L-1. It seems a lot like you're just trying to get a kill out of him.

Now you're on Kmd's case. For what? Your reads on him seem like you're tackling anything you can find, as are with my case.
You keep talking about how I'm using noobslips to make myself look town, but if you've checked around, more than half of the people here know me and my tricks/ have faced me as scum. If I was really smart enough to use my weakness as a defence, wouldn't I atlease consider it nullified due to my surroundings?

"The noobie card only works once."
Well the cards are back in the deck and untouched. I have a new hand now and it's going to be your downfall.

Vote: Wisdom

[Wisdom]

L-1 vote. If anyone still doubts slimer is scum, they're stupid.

Lincolm was not anti-town. Lincolm was looking for reactions. And so did I. But you know that, don't you?

[theslimer3]

._.
I said that.
"A gamble"
But it's more harmful than it is helpful. And you continue to support it as though it had absolutely no harm.

And on top of that, pleading for me to be the one to be lynched instead of you with your "if anyone still doubts slimer is scum, they're stupid"

[Wisdom]

Explain how it was harmful. Nobody was going to hammer Lincolm, they're not stupid.

I'm not pleading for you to be lynched, check again where my vote is.

[Lincolm]

Lincolm, you misunderstood me about the self-vote. It's the reason why I think you are town.

I don't think that self-vote point to someone alignment (which mean null), like Cheery's fake hammer, someone thought that pro-tools, someone thought that maybe Cheery tried to gain towncreed. In my case, I tried to see who tried to put me in L-1, in other side, maybe I'm scum who tried to gain towncreed also. Which one? You answer it.

Lincolm, you don't think wisdom would be a thinker as scum too? Just as town? Wouldn't scum be more worried about a plan than town? Especially if it's a good plan?

Do you think a scum thinker will blatantly disagree a good plan by town? That's not a thinker, that's idiot. If I'm normal scum who want to disagree a good plan by town, see all of my posts about the plan. Pessimist is the good way to destroy the plan. Try to not discuss it also good way. If I'm scum thinker, I will try to manipulate it, not disagree it.

You say something about me not calculating bad parts of my plan. Is it wrong to not think there's anything bad about it? The only things I've seen pointed out involve scum not hammering. I've already said that's taken care of by lynching those who refuse to hammer except in LYLO. Then there's your thing saying that scum can try to get town to hammer. No shit. Scum will also be trying to get town lynched (unless they bus). This is Mafia 101. Basic stuff. We can pick up tells on who wants who hammering just like we pick up tells on who wants who lynched.

You think only scum who will refuse to be hammer? Oh, come on! You didn't calculate everything!

The pairing have 3 conditions, scum - scum, town - scum (and vice versa), and town - town.

Mostly scum - scum don't want to hammer each other, then what happen next? Waiting deadline~.
Also someone who have townread on the lynchee don't want to hammer also and vice versa. Then what happen next? Waiting deadline~.
Anything can happen when you wait deadline.

Just example here.
Everyone thought Wisdom is scum. The second suspect is me. But I have townread on Wisdom, so I refuse. Wisdom also have townread on me, so he refuse. Meaning both of us are scums? Analyze it. If the refuse can save from 2 death of towns, even it is anti-town, I will do it.

I agree with Wicked that we should intelligent to choose. But I don't know how we have to be intelligent and we don't know how intelligent the scums are. Too many theories what I said. I'm too paranoid with the plan.

Tell me post 122 is a "thinker" post. Seriously. Wisdom is so quick to dismiss it without even evaluating the post directly above his. He knows it's a good plan for town and doesn't want it in use. He's scum.

He thinks that it is good plan because he said he have heard it before and he agrees to use it. He said he felt you try to manipulate. That is a thinker.

I said :

You know that there is 3 scums. Potentially 3 scum can direct town to ask townie to hammer. I don't like the plan because it is easy to manipulate because of this.

Then he said :

I agree that the plan can easily be used by scum to manipulate town, and that's how I felt when kmd proposed it.

I don't see where he dismiss it.

Lincolm, your description of the possibility of town refusing to hammer is exactly why it is anti-town to go against the plan as town. It eats up more deaths than we need. Well, actually, maybe it doesn't. Because in that situation, we are lynching someone who was going to die anyway.

Why refuse eats up more deaths? I don't see it. Tell me your condition. Also when it isn't.

I don't like 158 by lincolm. You didn't read the town role you want us to believe is yours, but you read the whole scum role? Doesn't seem likely. Fuck. I want to believe you are town, but you are making it so hard. Everything about you is scum except the whole self-vote L-1 thing

If I know my role, that is enough for me. If I know how it works, then it is fine for me. Mostly I read the wiki, so I know how it works. Why you think I said it? To protect Cheery? No. I'm also lazy to read it. I like to use myself as comparison. You don't like my post, but don't like Cheery's?

Wisdom, slimer is still a newbie.

Why you think he is newbie?

By the way, you still phone posting right? Try to re-read when not use phone. I'm waiting something from you. ISO me better.

[Lincolm]

If 3 scums on Wisdom's wagon, I'm going to laugh hysterically and cry in my sleep.

[Wisdom]

If 3 scums on Wisdom's wagon, I'm going to laugh hysterically and cry in my sleep.

I'm finding this unlikely tbh. They wouldn't give themselves out so easily. So as much as I wanna believe it's kmd/slimer/Huntress, I am surely wrong for one or two.

[Wisdom]

Btw @kmd - I have not dismissed the plan. I guess you haven't read everything, but I have clearly said that I'm willing to follow it.

[Kmd4390]

Wisdom/Linc, do you guys understand how unreasonable your point against slimer is? The one where the way he formats his post makes him scum? There is no way that is a tell at all. Also, "goofing off" isn't a tell for him. I've seen him as both town and scum and he played that way in both games. I agree with Blue though. Slimer is pretty funny. But it's more laughing at him than with him. He's like the kid in school who the cool kids pretend to like instead of making fun of him blatantly.

----------------------

Misrep? Please. He lied. He found a RVS vote strange and then acted like nothing happened.

^This literally never happened. I didn't find it strange. You said I did and I said no, that's wrong. You are ignoring anything I say that you can't twist into being scummy. So yeah, misrep.

---------------------

Fuck it.

Unvote

Someone vote Wisdom so I can hammer. If he's town and I die, I want my plan followed no questions asked. Lincolm, you have no excuse at that point because you will know I was town. I'm fine with dying because this is how I can best help town in my opinion. I don't think I'll die anyway though because Wisdom is probably scum which is even better.

[Kmd4390]

Oh. Lincolm, Slimer is newbie because he is new. And that last post was my first post without my phone since the game started.

[Wisdom]

You think you'll help the town by killing yourself, who you supposedly know are town? Right.

And yes, you were curious about a RVS vote. Why would you be curious about a RVS vote? RVS is RVS. What's so strange about it?

As for slimer, he's scum. But you know that already.

[Kmd4390]

Yes because the plan helps town more than me being alive, especially with a few people calling me scum and making me a potential lynch target anyway.

Nothing was strange about the RVS vote. Thought I said that already.

[Wisdom]

You said yourself you found it curious. And you asked for reasoning. So, yeah.

We will follow the plan regardless of whether you die or not, so why do you want to die for that?