Micro 121: SS9 (Game over!)

[implosion]

Vote count 1.5:

Wisdom - 2 (Kmd4390, Wickedestjr)
Kmd4390 - 2 (Wisdom, Lincolm)
Malakittens - 1 (Cheery Dog)
Cheery Dog - 1 (Blueberry)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 2 weeks from this post, at 8:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2013-02-10 00:00:00).

No; the last vote still on the wagon will be considered the most recent.

[Huntress]

I've been doing a review of Wisdom and Kmd:

I thought Wisdom's post 32 was a bit of a stretch but wanted to see whether he would persist with it after Kmd replied. In post 77 Wisdom asks the Mod to pm those who hadn't posted yet and then in post 84 says he doesn't want the Mod to chase them. The request was a minor scum-tell to me as it looked like he was trying to appear helpful and the back track was unconvincing (what's the difference?). In post 115, Wisdom accuses Kmd of lying and misreps him, and again in post 117.

@ Wisdom: How long would you have waited before responding to any of the reactions from Wicked's joke post if Kmd hadn't already done so? You say Kmd stopped it fulfilling its purpose but I think you're wrong there, it did fulfill its purpose of getting discussion going, and did it very well. Why would you want to delay that?

Are you aware of the difference in meaning between the words "strange" and "curious"?

------------------------

I didn't like Kmd's "Easy" comment in post 86 but I think that's the only concern I have there. I don't think he can be a partner to Wisdom who's my top scum pick at the moment.

Vote: Wisdom

[Wisdom]

I
Wisdom asks the Mod to pm those who hadn't posted yet and then in post 84 says he doesn't want the Mod to chase them. The request was a minor scum-tell to me as it looked like he was trying to appear helpful and the back track was unconvincing (what's the difference?).

The difference is that I noticed there were no DayStart pms so I thought the remaining players might not be aware of the fact the game had started.

In post 115, Wisdom accuses Kmd of lying and misreps him, and again in post 117.

Misrep? Please. He lied. He found a RVS vote strange and then acted like nothing happened.

@ Wisdom: How long would you have waited before responding to any of the reactions from Wicked's joke post if Kmd hadn't already done so? You say Kmd stopped it fulfilling its purpose but I think you're wrong there, it did fulfill its purpose of getting discussion going, and did it very well. Why would you want to delay that?

Until everyone/almost everyone had posted. Two people are not everyone. There were other ways of getting discussion going without ruining the purpose.

Are you aware of the difference in meaning between the words "strange" and "curious"?

Not sure how that's relevant, but yes.


Huntress is the third scum apparently. Sorry, Malakittens.

[Malakittens]

Pssssssst. Huntress what is your read on me.

[Wickedestjr]

Currently catching up...

I don't get the last sentence. I didn't pick on Cheery. I just wanted to sheeping Kmd, no reason. And sheeping them both? Do I need reason to sheeping someone (as joke) in page 1?

If you wanted to sheep Kmd, then why didn't you sheep him in your first post?

As for the hammer thing for my plan, if someone refuses, they are lynched instead. Easy.

Dunno, but I think the scum can vote someone

early

and don't get caught. So the last think they do are looking the other townie to hammer. Well, I guess you don't think about it or scum who already plan for this to manipulate. It almost likely easy to manipulate in LyLo. I like the idea though... I will follow if not in LyLo.

If the player we want to hammer is already voting the person we want lynched, then we could easily just tell that player to unvote and hammer once the person we want lynched is at L-1. Sure, scum could try and manipulate the votes, but if we play intelligently then I think we can prevent any unwanted/unplanned deaths from occurring. Again, I think time management will be very important this game.

I want to be the hammer if not in LyLo.

That's interesting... why? If you are town, then why would you prefer your potential death to the death of a potential mafia member?

So here it is my read :

Wisdom is town. I already get it from post #32. Based on meta related also, he is a thinker. When he said :

-The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared, something that he had thought of posting in his first serious post.

If he is scum, he won't say this. This is how a thinker town aware with someone plan.

Can you elaborate on this please? I'm not seeing it. And what do you think of my points?

You know that there is 3 scums. Potentially 3 scum can direct town to ask townie to hammer. I don't like the plan because it is easy to manipulate because of this.

I was thinking we have a second

fake

vote to determine who hammers. Not sure how much time this would require though. I still need to consider the different scenarios.

Regarding his "plan" - I had already read about it before, so it's not like the plan was something kmd came up with.

What did you mean by this?

I don't know why you have a hard time. I explained how I think. Yes, it was probably obvious that your case was a joke, yes, most people got it, but there were also people who didn't and others who had not posted yet.

What is the town motivation in killing it and discredit it as a joke

, making sure nobody will be likely to give reactions to it? Yes, we had Lincolm's reaction but we could possibly gain much more. Your original motivation from posting the case was reactions anyway - town that understood that it was a joke should have also understood your motivation and let it go to allow it to elicit reactions. Blueberry and especially kmd instantly killed it, and referred to it as a joke. Scum will refer to it as a joke, because they know they're not in danger from this case.

I think "killing it and discreditting it" is an exaggeration, especially considering you, yourself, admitted that most people realized I was joking and only a few players would actually take it seriously. I still find it strange that you would vote Kmd for discrediting my joke when, in the post in question, he votes Lincolm for his reaction thus taking advantage of my joke. Aside from Lincolm, who else did you think might have taken my joke seriously?

Lincolm is town, kmd is scum. My vote and questions to Lincolm were pressure. I wanted to keep him at L-1 because I felt it was an interesting state for reactions. Scum would not be able to hammer him, town might try tricks like CDog's fake hammer - and generally there were things we could gain.

I have issue with this explanation.
1. What good is a pressure vote when the player you're voting for is also voting for their self? Lincolm didn't seem to mind the votes on him at the time.
2. Why would you pressure vote somebody you thought was town, rather than your top suspect Kmd?
3. If you thought Lincolm was town, then why did you say this:

Regarding his "plan" - I had already read about it before, so it's not like the plan was something kmd came up with. Wouldn't it be nice for scum to give this plan to the town in order to gain cred? This is what I instantly thought when I saw him mentioning it in his first serious post. The way he's trying to use it ("I want Wisdom to hammer Lincolm" - aka I want town to hammer town, because yes,

I find Lincolm town

now

), further confirms to me that it comes from scum. Look at how wicked adds to it in 103 - that's a townie with genuine motivations to use the plan - kmd wasn't.

?

One, my vote on Abraham wasn't serious. Two, he said that at least one person on his wagon is scum & he was on his wagon himself = he's scum. Three, I haven't been serious one bit about Lincoln or pretty much anything up to this point.

...not sure I understand this. So your question regarding Lincolm's hypothetical scum claim was not serious? What was the point of it then? You didn't actually think it was a scum claim? And I dislike your claim that none of your posts regarding Lincolm have been serious, because the post in question didn't sound like a joke.

Good enough time to remove the jokevote. Kmd's eagerness to question a first/obviously RVS vote is somewhat too overdefensive/overanalytical. Also, kmd'd hastiness for Wisdom hammering Abraham/controlling the lynches is also suspicious.

VOTE: Kmd

What made you decide to switch your vote at this moment, specifically?

[Wisdom]

Regarding his "plan" - I had already read about it before, so it's not like the plan was something kmd came up with.

What did you mean by this?

I had heard about this plan as a recommended strategy for this setup before. It's not something kmd came up with.

I think "killing it and discreditting it" is an exaggeration, especially considering you, yourself, admitted that most people realized I was joking and only a few players would actually take it seriously. I still find it strange that you would vote Kmd for discrediting my joke when, in the post in question, he votes Lincolm for his reaction thus taking advantage of my joke. Aside from Lincolm, who else did you think might have taken my joke seriously?

A lot of players had not posted at all, so who knows. Cheery also took it seriously, slimer possibly would also take it seriously.. and I don't know about the others because we never got to know. I didn't find Lincolm's reaction strange at all, because from what I knew about him I expected him to take it seriously, and kmd's vote on him looked too opportunistic.

I have issue with this explanation.
1. What good is a pressure vote when the player you're voting for is also voting for their self? Lincolm didn't seem to mind the votes on him at the time.

I explained - I wanted to keep the L-1 state to see the reactions, from Lincolm and from others.

2. Why would you pressure vote somebody you thought was town, rather than your top suspect Kmd?

See 1.

3. If you thought Lincolm was town, then why did you say this:

Regarding his "plan" - I had already read about it before, so it's not like the plan was something kmd came up with. Wouldn't it be nice for scum to give this plan to the town in order to gain cred? This is what I instantly thought when I saw him mentioning it in his first serious post. The way he's trying to use it ("I want Wisdom to hammer Lincolm" - aka I want town to hammer town, because yes,

I find Lincolm town

now

), further confirms to me that it comes from scum. Look at how wicked adds to it in 103 - that's a townie with genuine motivations to use the plan - kmd wasn't.

?

Because I had given the impression I believed Lincolm was scum until that point, so I wanted to highlight the fact that's not the case.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod:

I will have limited access this Friday, no access this Saturday, and limited access on Sunday. I'll try as hard as I can to post here on Friday and Sunday, but no promises.

I'm almost finished catching up- I'll try to get at least another short post in before I got to sleep tonight.

[Huntress]

The difference is that I noticed there were no DayStart pms so I thought the remaining players might not be aware of the fact the game had started.

Maybe it's just me, but I would have been a trifle irritated if I had logged in and found a pm sent because I hadn't posted in a game just a few hours old. Differing time zones mean not everyone's going to be available at the same time. Your action seemed premature.

Misrep? Please. He lied. He found a RVS vote strange and then acted like nothing happened.

He never said he found the vote strange. That was your word, not his. And the "misrep" related to another point. Not this.

Until everyone/almost everyone had posted. Two people are not everyone. There were other ways of getting discussion going without ruining the purpose.

So you expected people to ignore the only thing that was going on in the thread at the time and do what?

Pssssssst. Huntress what is your read on me.

Null read so far but IGMEOY!

[Malakittens]

Pssssssst. Huntress what is your read on me.

Null read so far but IGMEOY!

You don't even want me to tell you how long it took me to get 'IGMEOY'(I got it now, but still).. I now have a semi funny story to tell you in a PM once we end this game. I want to thank you for that. >.>

[Lincolm]

Only bad thing I do see about KMD's plan which could in the future hurt is accidentally mistake a scum member not wanting to hammer for a town member. I wouldn't be so quick to want to lynch someone who refuses to hammer.

Maybe that happen, but the most bad thing happen for me, both of them don't want hammer each other. So, the plan is killing me.

I have to do more research on this setup to see how the town is more likely to win.

Sounds weird. Because I try to see how the mafias win, so I can prevent it. Different thought maybe.

[Cheery Dog]

If Mafia are able to manipulate us into killing ourselves, good on them, there's nothing we can do to stop them.

[Malakittens]

Uh, both are linked together. To see how a town wins you need to see how mafia plays and vice versa. Just like how I did research in another setup to see how SK plays in order to vig them correctly after I vigged mafia. >.>

[Lincolm]

If Mafia are able to manipulate us into killing ourselves, good on them, there's nothing we can do to stop them.

That's why I don't like the plan. I get feeling I will be manipulated.

I'm still writing and reading Huntress and Wicked post. I'm try to understand both of them.

[Cheery Dog]

Do you think you'll be manipulated without following the plan?
What is the difference and what causes the difference in these two manipulations?

[Lincolm]

Maybe it's just me, but I would have been a trifle irritated if I had logged in and found a pm sent because I hadn't posted in a game just a few hours old. Differing time zones mean not everyone's going to be available at the same time. Your action seemed premature.

Well, I disagree this. I have played with someone who already confirm (via PM), but he forgot to bookmark, so he never came until mod prodded him.

And the "misrep" related to another point. Not this.

You should point it because I didn't see Wisdom misrep it.

So you expected people to ignore the only thing that was going on in the thread at the time and do what?

Do another discussions. Do other reaction test. Did we should get our eyes in 1 discussion? If I knew that Wicked's joke and Cheery's fake hammer to look some reactions, I would wait other people to post also, to see their reaction. Well, I guess reaction test only work for someone who don't know it is reaction test... (well, it's me who don't know)

I dislike your post #207, because you don't try to see how other people think. Maybe that's how you play though...

P-Edit : It is feeling. Gut. That's why I said I won't follow it in LyLo before. But, the feeling said they will manipulate from beginning. That's why I said I won't follow it if it isn't necessary.
What two manipulations? The manipulation I thought, scums make town to make a pairing town - town. The causes? Town lose of course.

[Cheery Dog]

and if we don't have the hammerer directed, it's almost guarateed to be town and therefore also a loss, without the process of getting a certain person to hammer and therefore we don't have the new interaction.

It doesn't actually matter in LYLO, if we're lynching a town member we're practically already lost no matter who hammers.

[Lincolm]

It doesn't actually matter in LYLO, if we're lynching a town member we're practically already lost no matter who hammers.

?
If I'm not wrong (I read the wiki), Super Saiyan role work also in LyLo, which mean the hammer will dead also if the lynchee is SS. If the lynchee SS, but the hammer is mafia, isn't the hammer get killed also?

[Cheery Dog]

Mafia just won't quickhammer there if left to their own devices.
Since all town are super-saints, they know that will happen.
(going to be interesting what happens should we get to 3p LYLO)

[Lincolm]

Mafia just won't quickhammer there if left to their own devices.

I know the mafia won't quickhammer, also town. The reverse of lynchee and hammeree to anticipate this. Somehow the last thing mafia will do, make the pairing town - town.
(Basically what I'm afraid is 7P and 5P LyLo. You mention it.)

[Malakittens]

How did we just call Super Saint to Super Saiyan? xD

[Cheery Dog]

Mafia just won't quickhammer there if left to their own devices.

I know the mafia won't quickhammer, also town. The reverse of lynchee and hammeree to anticipate this. Somehow the last thing mafia will do, make the pairing town - town.
(Basically what I'm afraid is 7P and 5P LyLo. You mention it.)

If town isn't active in it, it may not even be mafia that makes the pairings.

[Lincolm]

If you wanted to sheep Kmd, then why didn't you sheep him in your first post?

Dunno. I just got an idea to create that "copy reason" immediately in (first) RVS when I saw Kmd's post. Why you ask it?

if we play intelligently then I think we can prevent any unwanted/unplanned deaths from occurring.

Currently I still don't find it how, but we never find it if we don't do the plan I think. I wish I'm optimistic like you.

That's interesting... why? If you are town, then why would you prefer your potential death to the death of a potential mafia member?

Sorry If I'm not clear explain it. The correct one is the post #114. Because I had scumread everywhere before, so I didn't care to be hammer. Too much emotion I think.

Can you elaborate on this please? I'm not seeing it. And what do you think of my points?

Basically that is based on his meta. I know that he is a far away thinker. Because of this :

The inclusion of the last paragraph in 13 looks pre-prepared

This is how a thinker aware with scum's plan or wary with someone plan. If a thinker is a scum, I don't think they will say something like this, which like a disagreement of the plan and accuse the person who said it.
Which point of yours? Because I think I don't find it. What I find is this but I don't think it is correct one :

Wisdom looks even more suspicious. His vote for Kmd4390 seemed poorly justified and his vote for Lincolm looks opportunistic. Also, I find it strange that he has suspicion of both Kmd4390 and Lincolm given their interactions.

[Lincolm]

How did we just call Super Saint to Super Saiyan? xD

Lol dunno why I always remember Super Saint as Super Saiyan and Tracey.

If town isn't active in it, it may not even be mafia that makes the pairings.

Maybe. I think the mafias will more aggressive make those pairings.

[Cheery Dog]

Maybe. I think the mafias will more aggressive make those pairings.

Then after we're decided we ditch the whole thing and lynch the person pushing a pairing the hardest.

[Lincolm]

Then after we're decided we ditch the whole thing and lynch the person pushing a pairing the hardest.

I guess. I think I divulge all of it so mafias work better...