Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[MonkeyMan576]

Seeking replacement for Aeronaut.

[Aquanim]

Oh, that's not the way you're talking though.

You say one thing but claim you mean another but I think you're just scum.

You're entitled to express your opinion, I suppose.

If anyone would like to discuss my play further, go ahead; if not, we might as well discuss someone else. Having had the rug pulled out from under my thoughts on Aeronaut...

- I'd like someone besides RC to try to sell this Oddmusic case to me
- I don't like the... for lack of a better word, the superficiality of eektor's posts. The posts below are what I consider his most meaningful contributions so far; they all read like lists of "A happened, then B happened, then C happened..." rather than trying to understand the mentality of other players. I have not yet looked at his meta to see whether this is simply characteristic of him - but my vote is kind of pointless where it is at present, so:

UNVOTE: Aeronaut
VOTE: eektor

Spoiler: relevant eektor quotes

Well so far I'm leaning town on aquanim and metal.

Insidious Lemon, I'm not sure what to think. At first I thought he was town, but I didn't like the whole pushing hard on metal while trying to find an excuse to jump off the wagon. Then his exchange with metal afterwards seemed a bit fake.

Leaning scum on mykonian. I don't like the whole I think you're scummy but I will continue the RVS. Also, the I'm keeping my vote on someone who I think is town.

Leaning scum on oddmusic. I think his vote on metal was a bit opportunistic and done without much commitment to it. I don't like how nobody is even mentioning him.

VOTE: oddmusic

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

He was clearly joking when he said that. You even asked if his vote was RVS or not. If you actually believed that it was possible he investigated mykonian pregame, you would have made a bigger stink over it and made him explain himself.

Then when he (again, jokingly) replies that his vote isn't RVS, you ask him seriously why he would unvote someone he knows to be scum. But then in your next post, which contains all your reads, you don't even mention TheDudeAbides.

It just doesn't seem like a logical thought process for town. To me, it seems like scum who is hesitant and unsure of how to deal with someone claiming things that you already know the answer to.

I'm sorry but I just don't see that as a joke. When I asked to make sure his vote was RVS, he said no. I take that as he had a reason to vote for mykonian. And I didn't put him on my reads because I'm still figuring him out.

Now I don't see how you can think my actions with him are scum motivated. Wouldn't scum who knew he had to be joking just let it slide rather than confront him to make sure he was actually doing an RVS instead of a real vote? Also, so your motivation to vote me had nothing to do with my reads and vote on oddmusic and solely on my interaction with the dude?

[RadiantCowbells]

You just jumped from

1) A lurker.

to

2) The person who the town player who has been strongest is already on.

These are rather safe picks, no?

[Aquanim]

You just jumped from

1) A lurker.

to

2) The person who the town player who has been strongest is already on.

These are rather safe picks, no?

I'm voting for the people I consider likely to flip scum, and who I think I can accomplish something by voting.

I'm really not sure why you keep choosing to address these comments to me, either. What do you think you're accomplishing?

[RadiantCowbells]

who I think I can accomplish something by voting.

How does this pool differ from the first pool?

[Aquanim]

who I think I can accomplish something by voting.

How does this pool differ from the first pool?

I'm still leaning slightly scum on the Aeronaut slot, but voting and trying to discuss a slot currently being replaced is a waste of my time.

[Elyse]

If there is no reason to not be honest and open, then why are you insisting you are? Do you see what mykonian is saying?

What knowledge led to your unvote?

>I voted for mykonian partially to get a reaction leading to him explaining his reads.
>I justified myself that I was being honest because that was in response to Mykonians analysis, I wanted to clear up positions with him.
>I now see what Mykonian was saying, so I unvoted.

You still didn't answer my question from before. What is the point of insisting your honesty and openness if it is a given for town players?

And if what mykonian said made you want to unvote him, why did it take pressure from me to do so? You posted three times in between his post expounding on his reads and your eventual unvote of him.

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

He was clearly joking when he said that. You even asked if his vote was RVS or not. If you actually believed that it was possible he investigated mykonian pregame, you would have made a bigger stink over it and made him explain himself.

Then when he (again, jokingly) replies that his vote isn't RVS, you ask him seriously why he would unvote someone he knows to be scum. But then in your next post, which contains all your reads, you don't even mention TheDudeAbides.

It just doesn't seem like a logical thought process for town. To me, it seems like scum who is hesitant and unsure of how to deal with someone claiming things that you already know the answer to.

I'm sorry but I just don't see that as a joke. When I asked to make sure his vote was RVS, he said no. I take that as he had a reason to vote for mykonian. And I didn't put him on my reads because I'm still figuring him out.

But you knew that a pre-game cop wasn't normal...so I'm not understanding how you thought he was being serious.

Now I don't see how you can think my actions with him are scum motivated.

Not scum motivated, but what awkward scum would do.

Wouldn't scum who knew he had to be joking just let it slide rather than confront him to make sure he was actually doing an RVS instead of a real vote?

How would scum know if he was joking? They don't know town roles. Your actions don't align with a townie who genuinely believed TDA wasn't joking. If I thought someone had a potential cop guilty on someone, I would make sure he made that clear right away.

Also, so your motivation to vote me had nothing to do with my reads and vote on oddmusic and solely on my interaction with the dude?

Correct.

I don't really want to vote Aquanim today. I'm mostly confused about why RC is voting him. If it's for his actions surrounding the odd wagon, I don't think that's a good way to find scum considering odd hasn't flipped.

[Taly]

If there is no reason to not be honest and open, then why are you insisting you are? Do you see what mykonian is saying?

What knowledge led to your unvote?

>I voted for mykonian partially to get a reaction leading to him explaining his reads.
>I justified myself that I was being honest because that was in response to Mykonians analysis, I wanted to clear up positions with him.
>I now see what Mykonian was saying, so I unvoted.

You still didn't answer my question from before. What is the point of insisting your honesty and openness if it is a given for town players?

And if what mykonian said made you want to unvote him, why did it take pressure from me to do so? You posted three times in between his post expounding on his reads and your eventual unvote of him.

Mykonian suspected me to be a scum read, I wanted to hear his read on me(he seemed to think that my honesty and openness was just to hide other things instead of actually trying to contribute to town), I voted for him to see if I can get a reaction(and I already linked posts providing reasoning for my vote) so I explained to him my behavior.

Me re-iterating that I'm honest and open in defense, trying to justify that my actions were town motivation - is why I insisted on my openness to the subjects so far.

The only person who said you pressured me into unvoting for him was RC, not me, and I didn't even give reasons why I unvoted that involved you, nor do I have any now, and at the time - you were the one questioning me in return, not him.

My original want was to hear his read, so after I justified myself

("insisting the idea I am being open and honest, a townie trait"),

I unvoted, because I saw little to no reason continuing the topic. Mykonian didn't put pressure on me either, I just wanted a piece of info. from him that I felt was being withheld that'd be better to know. I also did it to try and clear up anything that didn't sit right with me on his reads on me.

I didn't mean to create any conflict that looked a bit off, I was just trying to get some answers that I didn't think would have been given if I just asked plain questions. (Because when I asked, and in my review on my I originally thought mykonian seemed off was based on the fact that he had dismissed answering questions.)

Does this answer your question? If it doesn't, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, I'm sorry.

[toolenduso]

Just did ISO reads. Myko looks town because of this post:

I think I'm voting someone town.

OddMusic looks pretty bad IMO. #156 was an overreaction out of nowhere and some of the reactions to the wagon against him kind of look like scum bussing/distancing when they're caught off guard by momentum building against a partner.

RC also looks pretty bad, mostly for the way he handled the OddMusic/Aquanim thing. He pushes OM with conviction, then drops it to advocate for a policy lynch on Aquanim (which is itself a weird thing to do this early on D1), then finds a reason to scumread Aquanim later on.

Taly looks just as bad upon re-reading his slot. Myko makes a good point about the wording of #176, and I also don't like this post:

But about Aquanim, I kind of agree with this, at least until Elyse goes into depth about why Aquanims behavior was scummy. Which was why my previous vote for Eektor was over RVS. (Since I still thought seriousness for discussion was still being founded.)

It looks like a half-stance he can use to change his mind later.

[InsidiousLemons]

I'd like to take this opportunity to mention that oddmusic has been online and posting in multiple other parts of the forums instead of defending himself or scumhunting in the hours since his last post. Things are not looking tremendously great for him right now.

[Taly]

Just did ISO reads. Myko looks town because of this post:

I think I'm voting someone town.

OddMusic looks pretty bad IMO. #156 was an overreaction out of nowhere and some of the reactions to the wagon against him kind of look like scum bussing/distancing when they're caught off guard by momentum building against a partner.

RC also looks pretty bad, mostly for the way he handled the OddMusic/Aquanim thing. He pushes OM with conviction, then drops it to advocate for a policy lynch on Aquanim (which is itself a weird thing to do this early on D1), then finds a reason to scumread Aquanim later on.

Taly looks just as bad upon re-reading his slot. Myko makes a good point about the wording of #176, and I also don't like this post:

But about Aquanim, I kind of agree with this, at least until Elyse goes into depth about why Aquanims behavior was scummy. Which was why my previous vote for Eektor was over RVS. (Since I still thought seriousness for discussion was still being founded.)

It looks like a half-stance he can use to change his mind later.

That was post 31, on page 2... There really wasn't any information going on at the time, and that was to prompt Elyse at the time to speak about why she thought Aquanims behavior seemed scummy for voting several times in the RVS phase, which (at the time) we were not even subjectively out of....

You do make a point about the half-stance, but the basis and context you're deriving it from doesn't add up with any argument you would want to put up.

[Elyse]

Ok whatever. I'm having a hard time understanding your posts and this isn't really getting anywhere.

I still don't get why you waited three posts to unvote mykonian rather than just do it right away. It seemed like my pressure on you caused you to do it, and lying about it is scum motivated.

[Taly]

Ok whatever. I'm having a hard time understanding your posts and this isn't really getting anywhere.

I still don't get why you waited three posts to unvote mykonian rather than just do it right away. It seemed like my pressure on you caused you to do it, and lying about it is scum motivated.

I don't understand why you're having a hard time understanding my posts, I already stated you didn't pressure me to do anything, I've stated in several different ways my intentions for why I approached mykonian the way I did, and why I voted and unvoted, and I don't get why you are saying that I'm lying about you pressuring me? What is hard to understand?

Oh well, I've been defending myself constantly for the past 4 pages, I'm going to relax a bit and just wait a little...

[Elyse]

I think it's because you use way too many commas and run-on sentences.
This:

Me re-iterating that I'm honest and open in defense, trying to justify that my actions were town motivation - is why I insisted on my openness to the subjects so far.

is unreadable to me.

And you are saying that mykonian's explanation was the reason you unvoted him.

What I am saying is that you are lying because you didn't unvote him immediately after that post. You posted three times in between, and only unvoted after I pressured you. I think you got nervous when I pressured you, backed off your push on myko, and retroactively justified it by saying his explanation was sufficient.

[Taly]

I think it's because you use way too many commas and run-on sentences.
This:

Me re-iterating that I'm honest and open in defense, trying to justify that my actions were town motivation - is why I insisted on my openness to the subjects so far.

is unreadable to me.

And you are saying that mykonian's explanation was the reason you unvoted him.

What I am saying is that you are lying because you didn't unvote him immediately after that post. You posted three times in between, and only unvoted after I pressured you. I think you got nervous when I pressured you, backed off your push on myko, and retroactively justified it by saying his explanation was sufficient.

Well I did back off a bit from pushing myko, though that was where I had been trying to get him to see my side on this.

OK, your interference did influence my unvoting at the specific time but that was when I was already thinking about unvoting because of what I've learned of myko at that point.

Is that what you wanted to know?.... I'm feeling pretty crappy at the moment.

[Elyse]

I'm not trying to make you feel bad but yes you told me what I needed to know...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Taly

[InsidiousLemons]

I think it's because you use way too many commas and run-on sentences.
This:

Me re-iterating that I'm honest and open in defense, trying to justify that my actions were town motivation - is why I insisted on my openness to the subjects so far.

is unreadable to me.

And you are saying that mykonian's explanation was the reason you unvoted him.

What I am saying is that you are lying because you didn't unvote him immediately after that post. You posted three times in between, and only unvoted after I pressured you. I think you got nervous when I pressured you, backed off your push on myko, and retroactively justified it by saying his explanation was sufficient.

Well I did back off a bit from pushing myko, though that was where I had been trying to get him to see my side on this.

OK, your interference did influence my unvoting at the specific time but that was when I was already thinking about unvoting because of what I've learned of myko at that point.

Is that what you wanted to know?.... I'm feeling pretty crappy at the moment.

Gonna pop in super quick to say I don't like this post. We see a return of the panicky, defensive Taly. Also you didn't answer what you meant in post 232.

[InsidiousLemons]

Also I'm going to say from an objective, non-gameplay standpoint that if you aren't feeling good no one will fault you for going to bed and returning later tomorrow. Your health and wellbeing comes before mafia in all but the most minor cases.

[Taly]

I'm not trying to make you feel bad but yes you told me what I needed to know...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Taly

Sigh, I guess I just created my own problem out of fearing that an action would create a problem.

I'm going to take ILs response and lift the weight of this in-game mistake off my shoulders until I find a better time to reply. (Things IRL, and other games right now have begun to frustrate me as well, my thinking is not straight.)

[Metalcyanide]

Okay meant to get this out earlier but work got in the way.

Insidious Lemons

- I'm liking you more than I did yesterday. I don't have an issue with the way he backed off of his vote of me. Also, he appears to be active scum hunting and pushing people for explanations. I'm taking a step back from him for now. @IL do you have a scum case against RadiantCowbells or do you just disagree with their argument of Aquanim?

RadiantCowbells

- I'm confused by your vote on Aquanim. Is your argument against him that he defended Odd so that means he is scum w/Odd? In that case why wouldn't you continue to push odd in order to prove a connection. I guess it could work either way but I feel like it would be a stronger case. Also, your comment of "I'm not going to justify anything to you" looks bad. It doesn't matter if your talking to suspected scum, you need to convince the rest of town to side with you

Oddmusic

- I never brought you up while I was talking to IL about his push on me but your vote seemed off to me but not enough to really bring it up. Why didn't you ever comment while the discussion about me and IL was going on? It was almost 100 posts between your vote and your next comment which was a change in vote. Also, why change your vote was Radiant's last post that much more of a scum read than you had on me? You only switched the vote because "it wasn't doing much". What's your read of me now? Last point to you right now is this, it is fine to be quiet (8 posts, 10 pages) and confused but you need to contribute something more even if it makes you look stupid it may help.

toolenduso

- Where have you been? Also to answer the qustion asked back in post: 121 the scum read was based on what is looking more and more like bad play. See above.

more to come but more IRL stuff to do
Please yell at me if I missed any questions

[Aquanim]

Just did ISO reads. Myko looks town because of this post:

I think I'm voting someone town.

This seems pretty slender to hang a townread on. Not sure I understand what you're getting at, but given your respective joindates I suspect you have much more experience with Mykonian than I do, so I suppose it's quite possible you see something meaningful here I don't.

OddMusic looks pretty bad IMO. #156 was an overreaction out of nowhere and some of the reactions to the wagon against him kind of look like scum bussing/distancing when they're caught off guard by momentum building against a partner.

I assume this means you don't think RC's posts preceding #156 comparing Oddmusic's posts to a scumclaim were provocative, since you'd have to think that to think #156 was an "overreaction out of nowhere".
Which of the reactions in particular to Oddmusic's wagon strike you as scummy? The only reaction I remember being significantly discussed was mine...

RC also looks pretty bad, mostly for the way he handled the OddMusic/Aquanim thing. He pushes OM with conviction, then drops it to advocate for a policy lynch on Aquanim (which is itself a weird thing to do this early on D1), then finds a reason to scumread Aquanim later on.

...which makes your scumread on RC for pursuing that angle rather strange.

Taly looks just as bad upon re-reading his slot. Myko makes a good point about the wording of #176, and I also don't like this post:

But about Aquanim, I kind of agree with this, at least until Elyse goes into depth about why Aquanims behavior was scummy. Which was why my previous vote for Eektor was over RVS. (Since I still thought seriousness for discussion was still being founded.)

It looks like a half-stance he can use to change his mind later.

It doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me for a townie to keep their options open in expectation of new data, especially halfway down page 2. I for one do not have much of an opinion about a fair few of the players in this game even now since I think I lack sufficient data to make a decent read.

Then again, I don't go around proclaiming that about specific players without a good reason. I like the argument of "why bother posting this non-opinion at all" a fair bit better, though it is a thing where a new town player might not know any better.

[InsidiousLemons]

@Metal I disagree with their opinions and they're being a bit confusing as of late but I'm thinking town-ish. I'm sort of confused as it's nearly 1 here and I really should get to bed but yeah. I disagree with the Aqua case for the most part.

[toolenduso]

toolenduso

- Where have you been?

Been fairly busy IRL lately and the game is moving along at a good pace so I've had to spend time keeping up/catching up when I could.

Aqua, I'll get to your post tomorrow.

[oddmusic]

Oddmusic

- I never brought you up while I was talking to IL about his push on me but your vote seemed off to me but not enough to really bring it up. Why didn't you ever comment while the discussion about me and IL was going on? It was almost 100 posts between your vote and your next comment which was a change in vote. Also, why change your vote was Radiant's last post that much more of a scum read than you had on me? You only switched the vote because "it wasn't doing much". What's your read of me now? Last point to you right now is this, it is fine to be quiet (8 posts, 10 pages) and confused but you need to contribute something more even if it makes you look stupid it may help.

This is my problem. That massive discussion between you and IL? I got almost nothing from it. Apparently Lemons decided you were town from it. I didn't see it. But my initial read on you was so weak I can't say much on it anyway. Looking through your ISO…yeah you're probably town, I'm not really seeing anything scummy in it. I still don't like your initial faux-RVS vote, but with nothing else to build on, that's not really a good scumread.

And I agree that I need to contribute more in this game. But every time I open it I'm having difficulty thinking of something to say.

[oddmusic]

OddMusic looks pretty bad IMO. #156 was an overreaction out of nowhere and some of the reactions to the wagon against him kind of look like scum bussing/distancing when they're caught off guard by momentum building against a partner.

Well I can't say anything for people's reactions to me. What I can say, not that it will do any good is that my reaction to my wagon was mostly me coming off of a shitty day.

Can you be specific about who you thought looked like was bussing/distancing me?