Newbie 1706: Cocktail party GAME OVER

[Radja]

I will wait another 24 hours before sending out prods. Please start posting

[Vox Dei]

Wow... Where is everyone?

Cakez has moved up to a pretty strong town read.
Still waiting on Xisi and singer to explain things.

[SirCakez]

Where are people

[JaeReed]

I'm here but not much has changed on my end. Still prefer an alban lynch, could go Xis if that becomes the widely preferred. Don't wanna lynch Vox, Cakez, lucca, Laser today. Robert has been flying low - is that how he usually plays? Same with singer (I get that you're busy but please don't sign up to IC if that's the case - this is the 3rd largely absent IC I've had).

Trying to post less to stop flooding the thread. I don't think we're getting much new information by waiting unless we get replacements.

[Robert E Me]

@Robert as for what I townread you over (after 6 drinks so please excuse grammatical errors).

Spoiler:

Hello everyone.

Vote: datanksta1213

You sir have the most suspicious name.

I really liked this RVS. It felt joking but natural. I found in my first game that the newbie scum tried really hard to seem joking and light during RVS and that gave me a weird gut feeling. This did not. I'm learning to trust my gut to some degree because it's proving to be right most of the time (unless I want to confbias over hero worshipping someone and that's only the case in any game with Ranger )

@singersigner How'd you decide to vote for alban then?

I liked this because it was following the same line of questioning I wanted to follow. Since I know I'm town seeing someone else ask the same line of questioning I'm thinking really gels well with me. It shows we're coming from the same point of view.

Jae, so why did you seek approval if you had participated in RVS before then?

Looking at this meta does contribute somewhat to your defense.

How does it do so? I don't quite see it.

It's the internet, you can fake reactions.

It's kind of the point of this game to analyze people and reactions over the internet, isn't it?

I liked the questioning of

why

I sought approval when I'd participated in RVS because this is one of the few things I expected to come from town after my tank RVS. The "I don't quite see it" with the meta defense question gels super well with me for a town perspective because it's the same thought process I was following, and I liked the response to Laser probably more on a personal level but it just felt good on a gut read level, too.

Still waiting for Xisiq to respond to my question. I still don't see how the meta contributes to the defence of Jae. Explain this please?

You seem to let data off the hook pretty easily here. You just assume that he's really new even though he never talked about his experience level. Why not ask him?

Contrary to what you think, I don't find Jae that scummy. He's contributing a lot, so at least there's a lot to analyze, and he's asking questions of people trying to clarify and get reactions from people which is good. I think you should read their posts. :p

Why do you straight up read Cakez as Town? You have a weaker read on everybody else. I don't see that strong a reason to read Cakez as Town right now. Can you elaborate further?

I don't know if you can say that a newbie wouldn't follow his scum partner on a vote.

Again, using strong language with regards to Cakez: "his partnership with Xi seems impossible." I wouldn't say that just because he's openly asking for Xi's opinion on others that a partnership between them is impossible. In fact, I'd say it's null.

I liked this because it is dogging Xisi on the defense re: my meta thing. Then pursuing the fact that alban let data "off the hook pretty easily". Encouraging reading of my posts I like on a personal level so that shouldn't weigh in to my read, but I want to acknowledge it <3 Then questioning Cakez town and asking for elaboration. The comment on newbie scum not following partner I liked because it lined up with my own opinion, but again, more a personal opinion thing there.

The pointing out of strong language with the partnership thing I liked, though I found that in alban's first newbie. What I liked about this was the analysis side. The fact that he showed he thought about it and came to "I'd say it's null".

If anyone disagrees with anything feel free to point it out. If it'll affect the game negatively, again, once we're done, but if not feel free to comment in thread. I feel like this is definitely more than enough for a solid Robert town read at this point. He may not post a lot, but his posts seem to always have content (as opposed to me, who can't figure out which of my thoughts hold content and which don't so I post a lot).

Ah okay I see.

So what I wanted to note with the Singer posting IC spiel quote was that Singer did say in 20 I believe, that they would be looking up their old IC post so it likely wasn't because you mentioned it, Jae.

I want a tank lynch at this stage. He's new and new scum I feel is more likely to lurk because they don't know what to do unless they had an experienced person direct them before the game. I don't think his potential partner would give him advice such as "post as much as possible and i can spin it as town" such as Nacho did with kage in my last game. I do have an idea on a partner if he does flip, but regardless I think the slot has been trying to hide.

Everyone else... Thoughts on that previous paragraph? Especially Robert since your RVS vote is still on him.

Agreed at that point in the game. The lurking was definitely scummy and unhelpful for town. However, I find that Vox has done a nice job so far.

@JaeReed, Robert E Me

: re: LaserVP - How do you feel about this statement from Laser

Like I said, I'm not teaming you guys, but I scumread you both.

in a setup where there are a known quantity of scum (2)?

I am fine with this comment. Yes, I know there are only 2 scum in the game but there's of course uncertainty about who the scum are so multiple scumreads without teaming them are totally fine.

@lucca - what I'm doing is essentially townhunting. I don't expect scum to make major slips, but those I find least townie are those I find most suspicious by process of elimination.

Singer is closest to true null for me. I can't pressure her when she is quite literally not here. I don't know what you'd expect from that other than the game stalling.

tank is on the scummy side because I feel he's quiet and coasting. His first post leaves a lot to be desired too. Basically, he seems to be trying to look like he's in the game while hiding out. I don't see your point with the daytalk. I meant pre-game. Nacho told kage to post as much as possible as he could spin anything he posted into a town motivation if he did so in the pre-game of my first newbie.

I went into the alban thing while you were posting. I will say now since alban has posted that Xisiq, I'm looking at the possibility of alban being tank's partner if tank flips scum. His read on the slot was the most out of place I found so far, with the most reachy explanation. Of course, if tank is town then that's a moot point.

Me boiling it down to tank was not easy in the slightest. I had to clear Cakez, I had to clear you, I had to clear Xisiq. I had to interact with you, Cakez, Xisiq, Laser to try to get a feel.

Never lynching in this: lucca, Cakez, Robert
Not lynching in this today: Xisiq
If he does more scummy things this will be in my lynch-pile otherwise no: Laser
Need more from her: singer
Feels discredity and inconsistent with an out of place read on tank: alban
Feels like coasting, hiding, newbie scum: tank

Now, either stop throwing shade every which way and just vote me, or help me push through this tank lynch.

Xisiq, now that alban has responded, which is what I was waiting for... My potential pairing if tank flips scum is alban for the out of place read, and the Robert scumread & vote since Robert is voting tank. Obviously, if tank doesn't flip scum then I have to re-evaluate everything and form new reads.

Pedit: nevermind you did vote. Funnily enough I think I addressed your question here anyway.

Why did you not interact (or clear me, like the others) with me yet still manage to put me in your "Never Lynching" pile? As you can tell, others' opinions on me are decidedly more mixed.

In response to alban's post 126, I am *slightly* convinced by it but I still think that Jae is town.

I had a couple other comments to make on posts but they didn't get on here using multi-quote.

So after catching up, my reads are alban scum, LaserVP nulltown, lucca town, Jae town, Vox nulltown, Xisi nullscum, Cakez nulltown, and singer nulltown. I eagerly await alban's future posts.

UNVOTE

This is a pretty underwhelming catchup considering how long Robert has been gone. He responded to all of three posts then put out some reads and called it a day.
Can you explain your reads more, specifically your nulltown on Laser and nullscum on Xisi?

It was five posts actually

Sure. Am I right in assuming that those are the reads you find out of place?

Let's see, first Laser. I like his analysis and questioning in 73. Then there is the incident with Jae, which I personally put down mostly to external issues and personality rather than scummy behaviour. It is certainly not out of line of his personality in earlier posts. Otherwise, I find his content solid, though he has been lurky as of late (like a certain someone, cough) (he cites business, but of course that could be untrue blah blah blah) (I just realized that being busy is spelt the same way as business, haha).

Then Xisi.

I don't want to pip singer, so I will only make a brief point about this. My personal style of scumhunting is to keep an eye out for the (non)production of pro-town content. By "pro-town content" I mean clear, coherent posts explaining who the scum are and encouraging votes on them. This is hard to consistently feign over the course of a game. Good Town will generally create it, and non-Town will generally create other sorts of content, particularly evasions and equivocations.

He really doesn't seem to live up to his own standards. See post 143: "I have a mild desire to lynch singer now." Also the thing about scumreading two people and not teaming them was weird imo. I also object to his strong push on Vox. "Replacement behaviour verges on the immaterial if the slot is already scummy. Flaking is generally scummy, and I do not give replacements slack." "Verging on the immaterial" seems to me an unreasonable level of confidence in the evidence given by the flaking of data leading to the subsequent failure to substantially update beliefs, especially when he then backs off and says that flaking is only "generally scummy".

[Robert E Me]

Vox's catchup felt like it was from town eager to get involved. The way he started immediately engaging with Alban and Jae especially. I don't see scum who just replaced in immediately engaging with the top poster and leading wagon, there's far too much potential for it to go wrong especially with how scummy his slot was before. If you want a Vox lynch you're going to have to explain this more.

Xisi, why do you want to lynch me? Is it simply because my predecessor was replaced? As far as I can tell, you have yet to take issue with my play.
Because I'm really getting the feeling that you've decided on your mislynch for today and don't know what to do but continue to indiscriminately and blindly push it.

I do want to address this part before I go, though. Replacement behaviour verges on the immaterial if the slot is already scummy. Flaking is generally scummy, and I do not give replacements slack.

I understand scumreading a slot for having a scummy predecessor, but what I don't get is the fact your read isn't evolving based on Vox's new content. There comes a point where you have to analyze the new slot too.

Agreed.

I'm here but not much has changed on my end. Still prefer an alban lynch, could go Xis if that becomes the widely preferred. Don't wanna lynch Vox, Cakez, lucca, Laser today. Robert has been flying low - is that how he usually plays? Same with singer (I get that you're busy but please don't sign up to IC if that's the case - this is the 3rd largely absent IC I've had).

Trying to post less to stop flooding the thread. I don't think we're getting much new information by waiting unless we get replacements.

As you might expect given my reads, I prefer the same lynches as well. And yes, that is sort of how I usually play.

[singersigner]

Can people point out where I've missed things specifically addressed to me, because I caught up in a thorough and timely manner, have been responsive, and have made my lynch options clear (withholding my vote for everyone to check in again), so implying that I'm absent or not engaged because I have literally no power over how much someone else contributes, whether it be not at all or too fucking much, is insulting.

[singersigner]

There's something about the way you sited that example that feels off...I'll be able to put it into better words when I get home from work.

I guess I didn't follow up on this. I still don't really know how to explain it. It felt self-serving because it applies to youread specific situation, and you're using it as a preemptive defense instead of proving why his example is wrong.

[singersigner]

@SirCakes...in 214 did you feel that laser's post was more or less substantial than alban's entry? You said you initially had a town read on alban but voiced disapproval with laser, so what was the difference you saw?

[alban]

@Cakez,
You comment on lack of analysis/scumhunting from following players.

Robert

214, 215, 223

Xi

178, 223

Me

180, 181, 215

Laser

214

Tank

133;

Vox

180 (but you are satisfied with him after that, I gather)

Singer

115, 178

So, half the players have been not scumhunting enough/not analytical enough for you.

Now a question for you. How about an analysis of the players or analysis of the game at the current stage by you? There hasn't been a single overarching umbrella kinda post from you. Not just comments on people's posts. But an overall analysis and a kinda sum up of each of the players. That will be cool.

[Vox Dei]

I think we should lynch alban before too long; this game is stagnating.
@singer yes that is what I was referring to. I don't know what I could do to prove his example is wrong (I'm not trying to convince you I am town)... instead what I'm trying to do is disprove his "evidence" and force him to (if he is town) form a better read on me or (if he is scum) make something else up about why I am scum that can lead back to him later.
Also... where has Laser gone? I need him here so I can sort him.

[alban]

See, it's posts like these that are suspicious Vox. Everytime I post, you feel the need to follow it up with a post of your own to remind other players how I am lynch-worthy. Just shows, you have nothing on me.

And do explain how lynching me un-stagnates your game. See, the problem is not my presence. The problem is you've no idea who is scum. Tell me what happens when you lynch me, both when I flip scum or I flip town (coz you must have entertained the possibility that I will flip town), and if convincing I promise I will vote for myself.

Or why don't I simply ask the mod to replace me? Probably I will be replaced by someone more likeable? Like you maybe. How you worked wonders for Data's slot.

It doesn't matter either way. I am a vanilla townie. Yeah, I just claimed.

[Radja]

Day 1, VC 9

alban (3)

-

Vox Dei, JaeReed, SirCakez

Vox Dei(1)

-

Xisiqomelir

JaeReed (1)

-

alban

Xisiqomelir (1)

-

LaserVP

Not Voting (3)

-

lucca261, Robert E Me, singersigner

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is on May 22nd at 08:00 AM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2016-05-22 08:00:00).

Mod Notes -
Xisiqomelir is on V/LA until Friday.
LaserVP and lucca261 have been prodded.

[singersigner]

And do explain how lynching me un-stagnates your game. See, the problem is not my presence. The problem is you've no idea who is scum. Tell me what happens when you lynch me, both when I flip scum or I flip town (coz you must have entertained the possibility that I will flip town), and if convincing I promise I will vote for myself.

What does this even mean?

1. "You've no idea who's scum" implies knowledge that he is town.
2. How is it even an option to "convince" you you're scum if you're town?

[alban]

And do explain how lynching me un-stagnates your game. See, the problem is not my presence. The problem is you've no idea who is scum. Tell me what happens when you lynch me, both when I flip scum or I flip town (coz you must have entertained the possibility that I will flip town), and if convincing I promise I will vote for myself.

What does this even mean?

1. "You've no idea who's scum" implies knowledge that he is town.
2. How is it even an option to "convince" you you're scum if you're town?

I guess there's always someone who will project a straw man. It happens to be the IC. Good luck to us. Or should I say, good luck to you?

1. Inference is not knowledge. In this case, I inferred that he is clueless, but no, I don't have knowledge if he is clueless.
2. I am town. Period. But he doesn't know that. He is 'convinced' that I am scum. So, I want him to lay down arguments why he is 'convinced', so that I can dismantle and falsify his conviction. Unlike a scum who will have dozens of reasons to justify his alignment, the only way a townie could prove his alignment is by showing fallacy in the arguments.

Was it really that hard to understand? Or you couldn't suppress the gimmickry and polemics?

[Vox Dei]

Alban, do you think I'm scum or don't you?
Just answer this straight up, no qualifying, please.

[JaeReed]

There's something about the way you sited that example that feels off...

To be fair I was going to hunt down a thing I saw on replacement statistics too for that post before I saw vox already defended that point.

Also, sorry. You're right in that you've been more active after catching up. I was frustrated at the implication with the work day being longer + friend getting into town as I thought you'd vla again. Plus the game is stagnating.

[JaeReed]

And do explain how lynching me un-stagnates your game. See, the problem is not my presence. The problem is you've no idea who is scum. Tell me what happens when you lynch me, both when I flip scum or I flip town (coz you must have entertained the possibility that I will flip town), and if convincing I promise I will vote for myself.

It moves it on. Gives a flip for us to work off and look at how people interacted with/didnt interact with your wagon. You know how this works...

[singersigner]

And do explain how lynching me un-stagnates your game. See, the problem is not my presence. The problem is you've no idea who is scum. Tell me what happens when you lynch me, both when I flip scum or I flip town (coz you must have entertained the possibility that I will flip town), and if convincing I promise I will vote for myself.

What does this even mean?

1. "You've no idea who's scum" implies knowledge that he is town.
2. How is it even an option to "convince" you you're scum if you're town?

I guess there's always someone who will project a straw man. It happens to be the IC. Good luck to us. Or should I say, good luck to you?

1. Inference is not knowledge. In this case, I inferred that he is clueless, but no, I don't have knowledge if he is clueless.
2. I am town. Period. But he doesn't know that. He is 'convinced' that I am scum. So, I want him to lay down arguments why he is 'convinced', so that I can dismantle and falsify his conviction. Unlike a scum who will have dozens of reasons to justify his alignment, the only way a townie could prove his alignment is by showing fallacy in the arguments.

Was it really that hard to understand? Or you couldn't suppress the gimmickry and polemics?

Putting aside the fact that you feel the need to bolster your point with passing snipes and insults, you literally offered to vote yourself if you could be "convinced" but now you're saying it was just to dismantle his argument. The conviction you're putting behind your words seemed like knowledge, so now it just looks like you're backtracking.

Also, this is semi-IC related and semi-scumhunting related, but...you're not using straw man correctly. Asking you questions to further my understanding of your comments does not mean I'm making an argument about why you're scum using entirely that one piece of your post. That was a pretty wild exaggeration of what I was doing.

Unlike a scum who will have dozens of reasons to justify his alignment,

How did you feel about the post I pointed out where Vox offered statistics about newbie replacements?

There's something about the way you sited that example that feels off...

To be fair I was going to hunt down a thing I saw on replacement statistics too for that post before I saw vox already defended that point.

Also, sorry. You're right in that you've been more active after catching up. I was frustrated at the implication with the work day being longer + friend getting into town as I thought you'd vla again. Plus the game is stagnating.

Fair enough. I understand his point now.

And also, fair enough. I was really annoyed about it and can see why it could come across as making excuses. As a general rule of thumb, though, I try not to post too much more than newbies as an IC because it can easily explode a game which is pretty off-putting. I want to give people like laser and Robert a chance to actually participate (which is also the unvote).

[SirCakez]

It was five posts actually

Sure. Am I right in assuming that those are the reads you find out of place?

Let's see, first Laser. I like his analysis and questioning in 73. Then there is the incident with Jae, which I personally put down mostly to external issues and personality rather than scummy behaviour. It is certainly not out of line of his personality in earlier posts. Otherwise, I find his content solid, though he has been lurky as of late (like a certain someone, cough) (he cites business, but of course that could be untrue blah blah blah) (I just realized that being busy is spelt the same way as business, haha).

Then Xisi.

I don't want to pip singer, so I will only make a brief point about this. My personal style of scumhunting is to keep an eye out for the (non)production of pro-town content. By "pro-town content" I mean clear, coherent posts explaining who the scum are and encouraging votes on them. This is hard to consistently feign over the course of a game. Good Town will generally create it, and non-Town will generally create other sorts of content, particularly evasions and equivocations.

He really doesn't seem to live up to his own standards. See post 143: "I have a mild desire to lynch singer now." Also the thing about scumreading two people and not teaming them was weird imo. I also object to his strong push on Vox. "Replacement behaviour verges on the immaterial if the slot is already scummy. Flaking is generally scummy, and I do not give replacements slack." "Verging on the immaterial" seems to me an unreasonable level of confidence in the evidence given by the flaking of data leading to the subsequent failure to substantially update beliefs, especially when he then backs off and says that flaking is only "generally scummy".

Correct
Is the analysis/questioning in that post the only specific thing you have to townread Laser? The rest of it is pretty vague.
The Xisi read makes more sense though.

@SirCakes...in 214 did you feel that laser's post was more or less substantial than alban's entry? You said you initially had a town read on alban but voiced disapproval with laser, so what was the difference you saw?

Which post from alban are you referring to?

@Cakez,
You comment on lack of analysis/scumhunting from following players.

Robert

214, 215, 223

Xi

178, 223

Me

180, 181, 215

Laser

214

Tank

133;

Vox

180 (but you are satisfied with him after that, I gather)

Singer

115, 178

So, half the players have been not scumhunting enough/not analytical enough for you.

Now a question for you. How about an analysis of the players or analysis of the game at the current stage by you? There hasn't been a single overarching umbrella kinda post from you. Not just comments on people's posts. But an overall analysis and a kinda sum up of each of the players. That will be cool.

Various players (Tank, Robert earlier on, Singer earlier on, Laser now) were lurking so yes at various points half the players have not been scumhunting enough for me.
I've done a reads list or two, but I'll put another one down here.

My strong town tier is Jae and Lucca. Jae's level of engagement and pushing feels next to impossible to be from scum. Lucca's analysis/scumhunting has been really strong, for example 121 and 182.
My town leans are Vox and Singer. Vox's slot was pretty gross early on with Tank, but I think he's stepped the slot up. In particular the interactions with Alban felt townie to me. Singer has had consistently quality pushing and questioning after the lurking ended, for example 193.
Xi remains my only null read. Some of his content is questionable, but overall his level of engagement is good. Would like to see an improvement here.
Robert remains nullscum, but he's improving. His catchup was iffy like I said earlier, but if he keeps it up and improves then he might improve.
Alban and Laser are my two main scum reads for reasons I've stated before.
Xi is my

[SirCakez]

It was five posts actually

Sure. Am I right in assuming that those are the reads you find out of place?

Let's see, first Laser. I like his analysis and questioning in 73. Then there is the incident with Jae, which I personally put down mostly to external issues and personality rather than scummy behaviour. It is certainly not out of line of his personality in earlier posts. Otherwise, I find his content solid, though he has been lurky as of late (like a certain someone, cough) (he cites business, but of course that could be untrue blah blah blah) (I just realized that being busy is spelt the same way as business, haha).

Then Xisi.

I don't want to pip singer, so I will only make a brief point about this. My personal style of scumhunting is to keep an eye out for the (non)production of pro-town content. By "pro-town content" I mean clear, coherent posts explaining who the scum are and encouraging votes on them. This is hard to consistently feign over the course of a game. Good Town will generally create it, and non-Town will generally create other sorts of content, particularly evasions and equivocations.

He really doesn't seem to live up to his own standards. See post 143: "I have a mild desire to lynch singer now." Also the thing about scumreading two people and not teaming them was weird imo. I also object to his strong push on Vox. "Replacement behaviour verges on the immaterial if the slot is already scummy. Flaking is generally scummy, and I do not give replacements slack." "Verging on the immaterial" seems to me an unreasonable level of confidence in the evidence given by the flaking of data leading to the subsequent failure to substantially update beliefs, especially when he then backs off and says that flaking is only "generally scummy".

Correct
Is the analysis/questioning in that post the only specific thing you have to townread Laser? The rest of it is pretty vague.
The Xisi read makes more sense though.

@SirCakes...in 214 did you feel that laser's post was more or less substantial than alban's entry? You said you initially had a town read on alban but voiced disapproval with laser, so what was the difference you saw?

Which post from alban are you referring to?

@Cakez,
You comment on lack of analysis/scumhunting from following players.

Robert

214, 215, 223

Xi

178, 223

Me

180, 181, 215

Laser

214

Tank

133;

Vox

180 (but you are satisfied with him after that, I gather)

Singer

115, 178

So, half the players have been not scumhunting enough/not analytical enough for you.

Now a question for you. How about an analysis of the players or analysis of the game at the current stage by you? There hasn't been a single overarching umbrella kinda post from you. Not just comments on people's posts. But an overall analysis and a kinda sum up of each of the players. That will be cool.

Various players (Tank, Robert earlier on, Singer earlier on, Laser now) were lurking so yes at various points half the players have not been scumhunting enough for me.
I've done a reads list or two, but I'll put another one down here.

My strong town tier is Jae and Lucca. Jae's level of engagement and pushing feels next to impossible to be from scum. Lucca's analysis/scumhunting has been really strong, for example 121 and 182.
My town leans are Vox and Singer. Vox's slot was pretty gross early on with Tank, but I think he's stepped the slot up. In particular the interactions with Alban felt townie to me. Singer has had consistently quality pushing and questioning after the lurking ended, for example 193.
Xi remains my only null read. Some of his content is questionable, but overall his level of engagement is good. Would like to see an improvement here.
Robert remains nullscum, but he's improving. His catchup was iffy like I said earlier, but if he keeps it up and improves then he might improve.
Alban and Laser are my two main scum reads for reasons I've stated before.

[singersigner]

@SirCakez...alban's 69 was scrutinized for not having much substance. I noticed you said the same thing about laser yet had a townread on alban earlier...what was the difference?

[lucca261]

Fuck it, I was making a big post that time, accidentally pressed to go back and lost it. Doing it here and now:

Laser #197

Spoiler:

Usually I like to talk about everything that happened since my last post. But I need to keep it brief tonight due to my schedule. One of those "I'm pretty busy tonight, oh shit I have a literal ton of homework too"

I'm going to just comment on the alban/jae debacle

There seems to be sides at this point.
On the Jae is scum side, you have Alban and Lucca
On the Alban is scum side, you have Jae, Cakez, singer, and Vox
Robert says both are town
Xis completely ignored this

And then you have me. No matter how you look at it, alban is really frustrated right now. That alone cannot make a person town or maf. Yes he is aggressive, but so am I. (singer was affected by unnecessary aggressiveness with me in a simple RVS question, so I'm not surprised she's here).
If I had to pick one to townread, I would pick alban. But like Robert, I dont scumread Jae either. I feel like the best points against the other came from alban and lucca.

Judging from the interactions, I can conclude that Lucca and Alban are not partners. No two maf agree with each other that much. Like I said, not going to detail, but I tr lucca now.

As for possible partner. I dont think its Cake, Jae or Lucca. Im pretty sure its Xis and between the remaining, (singer, vox, robert)...I have no clue tbh. Robert has become null at this point of time.

I will have much more to contribute tomorrow. This was basically here so I don't get replaced.

Actually, at least before ending my catchup, I am on the side of (One of them is scum, but not both together). I think Alban is more probable, but Jae is scummy too.
I have a small issue with you saying Alban is your one townread, and going to speculate on possible partners for him. But nothing major.

Robert #195

Spoiler:

Why did you not interact (or clear me, like the others) with me yet still manage to put me in your "Never Lynching" pile? As you can tell, others' opinions on me are decidedly more mixed.

In response to alban's post 126, I am *slightly* convinced by it but I still think that Jae is town.

I had a couple other comments to make on posts but they didn't get on here using multi-quote.

So after catching up, my reads are alban scum, LaserVP nulltown, lucca town, Jae town, Vox nulltown, Xisi nullscum, Cakez nulltown, and singer nulltown. I eagerly await alban's future posts.

UNVOTE

Don't like this. You contradict yourself here on this four sentences. You spent so many time out of time and analysed only three posts with this first. First of all, looking at your post, your first since a lot of time, you should been pushing Jae, since he is almost the only one you quote here. Also, you don't analyse any player, and your reads echoes the common read on each player, with no exceptions.

I found it weird that you quote three posts, say almost nothing, and find yourself with all the common reads. Feel almost like you're laying low and going with the flow.

Jae #199 (Whole fucking big post)

@lucca for the request of where (I believe) I scumhunted/townhunted. Underlined and tried to cut down quotes as much as I could.

Spoiler:

Why is approval seeking in a newbie game an issue for you? Why did you find that more of an issue than the fact that I put him at L2, or that I played a game before where I participated in RVS and as such should know whether I'm doing it right or not?

Was trying to probe thought process and motivation here.
---
Agree with you here.

With regards to singer's question to you about RVS, why do you believe she asked that?

Again trying to probe motivation and thought process since his response to singer felt quite aggressive.
---
I find this a little nitpicky, but, I can see your thought process on this.

How did I point to everybody? How did I say my play this game and last game would be similar?

I didn't. I said I'd be trying to take on board criticism of my last game, though.

Probing thought process so I could better get a read of you. (Also defending at the same time so your mileage may vary here)
---
I don't see this, I feel like you were defending yourself here, but I don't want to talk about this whole part of the game again.

VOTE: SirCakez

You asked laser and Lucas why they weren't using their votes to pressure, yet I haven't had my vote on anyone for a while now either. Why did you exclude me?

Probing again. I wanted to know Cakez motivation behind asking laser and lucca, but not bothering to ask me (since it's a good opportunity for him to get a read on all of us).
---
Don't see this too, like I said to Cakez back then.

Singer, you had another 24 hours to wait for someone to get a wagon before being in danger of a prod. Why didn't you if that's your usual RVS option? Was there a reason that you felt you had to make your post at that time?

I assume it wasn't an IC thing because you don't seem to be the type to do an IC spiel or you would have done so by now.

Questioning of singer's motives.
---
She hasn't posted in a long time by the time you did this. That is one of the reasons that I expected, on your first read list, for you to vote her. I don't see this being scumhunting.

Also i did like that you puts tank at L-2, but i like that less when you point to everybody, and then changes your vote.

Can you go further into detail on this? Specifically the line that I pointed to everybody?

Checking your thought process here and seeing if there are any inconsistencies in it.
---
Can be defensive, but can be scumhunting too.

Why do you think I reacted good to the pressure? Do you think SirCakez 31 could be scum trying to subtly keep himself distant from a potential wagon on town?

He questioned without providing any insight to his thoughts on the matter.

Again me trying to see more from another's point of view.

Sir, you've asked questions but I don't feel like you even expected to get anything AI from what you asked.

What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Tank what are your thoughts on the game so far?

You've seem pretty content to not comment on anything that has happened game-wise and just appear to be trying to look like you're doing something.

Xisiq you said you'd be looking for the non production of pro-town content. I don't feel as though you have produced much in the way of that yourself. In fact, that very paragraph of that post felt like fluff to me. Saying my meta attributed to my defense was iffy as well.

Did you end up reading that whole game, or did you just check what I linked?

I want to make a note here with the Xisiq question that this was my own paranoia that he read the full game, saw how I was widely strongly townread, and thought he could benefit off buddying me.
---
I see you scumhunting on him on the post, but not about this you said. I saw him potencially buddying too, but, after this, I expected you to go after him too, and I don't see how you didn't.

To clarify, did you only read my iso or did you also check other aspects of that game?

Same point as above, I was really worried that Xisi was trying to pocket me and reflect from a townieness that he knew I could achieve.
---
I can see this being you trying to find what why he thought you were town too.

Alban is possibly town. I can see his angles for a lot of things. The Robert thing was founded, no one has really pushed on him and he could be scum flying under the radar. I still think he's town though. Notes on him below:

Robert - Open joking RVS. Doesn't feel forced.
2nd post wasn't commenting on anythign that had happened, just answering my experience question.
49 is ok but I want to see follow up.
Null (Null town)
71 is very strong for town. Pretty much bleeds it.
Laser points out that Robert had the first sign of scumhunting with 15 and I agree.
Town

@Alban do you disagree with these notes? Whether you agree or disagree could you explain why?

I wanted to leave this largely intact because I feel the alban could be town comment could be expanded upon. I wanted to keep an open mind and see how alban would react without the pressure of being scumread flat out by me.
---
This post again. But you don't agree that maybe, if you scumread him, he would provide more content?

Honestly the main thing that still bugs me is:

All right sounded like you were over-sure of yourself

I don't know why this rubs me the wrong way but it does. As Xisiq pointed out, the only way he could be sure of anything was with moderator supplied information, so I guess my real problem is the redundancy of this? Or perhaps the dismissive tone I feel I'm picking up?

Could you expand on why you felt the need to drop this line?

Why does Singer lean scum? I assume you're not reading her VLA as scummish so did you get something from her posts?

Also, I really dislike the "Cakez is right" thing. I get that you came to your own conclusion and all that but I seem to see scum use the same kind of wording in opens or theme games when I read them and so it rubs me the wrong way.

Cakez, thoughts on the sheeping with wording? Am I off base here?

I didn't like this post when your first posted it now, and I don't like it now. You do basically the same that you were accusing.

Vox, can you explain the scumread on Xisi for me?

Xis, can you explain the desire for a singer lynch for me?

These post and the next one I like.

Is your main reason for scumreading alban the IIoA with his first substantial post or is it the way he reacted to me?

Xisi did the same kind of "coaching" recently to Laser. Do you see this as different to the alban coaching, and why? Does this affect your read of him at all?

What's your town read on singer?

If you feel you need clarification on anything please let me know. I accept that what I believe was content-producing hunting may not be seen as such, and I would love criticism after the game on how I can improve. This dive into my own ISO has been incredibly useful as it shows me I have a lot of not alignment indicative content (or "fluff" content). I'm not sure how to cut down on it but this is the point of newbies so thank you for asking this question.

Going to go into where I think I analyzed next & came to conclusions. Then I will try to respond to Robert's question of why I have a townread on him (if I'm not too drunk by that stage I'm Aussie ok? gimme a break)

First of all, I'm okay with you being drunk, haha, I am brazilian, I know of these things too.

Also, my thoughts on each one of them are on the spoiler, because I can't make the BBCode how I like on your post, because of the double spoiler, I think.

But my principal point was not actually your lack of scumhunting. I find you making some analysis, and you have by far the most posts on the game. But, actually, on the time of doing analysis, you almost were lynching your null reads, because everyone else was town for you. My question was: With the whole quantity of posts that you had, and your scumreads are on null people? Were you scumreading at all? If so, where?

[lucca261]

Mostly for lucca's benefit again... Where I believe I analyzed:

Spoiler:

To clarify on this point I don't actually see how I was using meta to defend, so I find him agreeing to it slightly off. If anything I was using meta to say "this is probably why you should be scumreading me" which at the time I thought was separate, but

upon further review I think we were basically looking at 2 sides to the same coin

. I'll get to this further in an oncoming post.

As far as the SirCakez wanting your reactions and answers that may be so, but he could also get the same from me while he's at it.

The only reason he wouldn't do so, imo, is if he feels he has a fairly solid read on me. I don't feel that should be the case this early in the game. Not unless, of course, he knew my alignment to start

.

Correct, I believe seeking approval in a newbie in general to be nonconsequential.

However

, against me it's a valid point as I did participate in RVS in my previous game so I clearly knew what I was doing.

I just felt he chose the wrong angle to approach it from, but on a reread I think we're just looking at two sides to the same coin. He finds approval seeking scummy, and I find

me

approval seeking scummy only because I knew what I was doing with this game's RVS, due to having participated in RVS before

.

I'm beginning to understand where the confusion was coming from here, with your next point.

I feel you're probably town for the concern over tunneling, and questioning then following up on those questions, but I will need to reread to get a better grip on the game as a whole

. In a bit, though, as I am going out.

This bugs me a little, though because of lucca's genuine misunderstanding over why I linked that post I'm unsure whether it's the same deal here

.

Alright so I think I'm confident at this point in time calling lucca my best town read.

54 in particular was very good.

Singer is vla so I'll hold off on her.

Alban hasn't weighed in yet so likewise.

Sir, you've asked questions but I don't feel like you even expected to get anything AI from what you asked

. What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Robert is a null town for now pending on whether he follows up on his questions in 49.

Tank what are your thoughts on the game so far?

You've seem pretty content to not comment on anything that has happened game-wise and just appear to be trying to look like you're doing something.

Xisiq you said you'd be looking for the non production of pro-town content.

I don't feel as though you have produced much in the way of that yourself. In fact, that very paragraph of that post felt like fluff to me. Saying my meta attributed to my defense was iffy as well.

Did you end up reading that whole game, or did you just check what I linked?

Laser you came across as a little defensive and abrasive when responding to singer asking about why you participated in RVS and that's why I asked what you made of that. You seemed to be able to figure out calmly why she asked that, which makes your response to her kind of weird in my opinion

.

There was a lot of wall and spam posts in your first game, Hungarian Notak II. You never complained about it there.

I feel like you could be brushing it off so that you don't have to read posts. Feels less likely that kind of thing would come from town given as scum you wouldn't

need

to read posts, knowing already who is what alignment. I would have bought you saying that you're busy and don't have time but you didn't say that.

To clarify, I like positive attention. What I've been getting hasn't entirely been so.

As for the Data-Cakez possible pairing reasoning. This happened in my last game. Nacho!scum voted Willow in 196 and then Kage!scum voted Willow in 208 (his next post).

I believe it's more likely for newbie scum to follow their scum partner (maybe not so now that I've said this) as they don't know how to look town and appear to be scumhunting. Irrelevant for RVS, though, I think.

I feel like a lot of what you pulled up was null

. It's odd that you said you wouldn't be looking at things in this light again, because

this is how you play the game from my understanding. You seem to search for possible pairings and rule them out

.. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant with your last paragraph.

Shit. You towned it up here in a big way.

The town read on me makes me uncomfortable. I find it entirely possible you could try to get me on side with that. Your scum game is strong from what I've seen, and quite frankly, it scares me.

The rest of your post is town and has actual content, which was part of my issue with you as I felt you were trying to coast somewhat.

The response to why you didn't ask me is fair. NAI since you could have done that as either alignment, but more likely town if I'm going by gut feel. Scum you might have pulled the response I was expecting, which was something along the lines of me having had enough pressure for you to get some kind of read, or that I withheld my vote for a fair time when I had no definitive scumreads in my other newbie.

Q2: I'll copy from my notes direct here because I think this will explain my thought process up until his most recent post, which I just addressed.

Sir - Null RVS. Joking but experienced. No bad vibes though.
2nd post is just IC stuff. NAI.
Post 31 asks a question which generally means jack. It won't produce actual content, really.
I don't like 44 for a reason other than not including me in the vote comment. The first line pings me for some reason that I can't quite finger yet.
Null.

I stated above but I'll restate for your benefit. My fear is Cakez has a good scum game from what I've seen.

I don't think his latest could have been faked though. People were townreading him for what I essentially saw as him looking busy. He's no longer null, but town.

Your starting paragraph to this post really feels kinda discredity. He wasn't saying you aren't posting enough, but that you aren't posting enough

content

. There's a difference. Theory talk isn't content as unless you want to lie flat out about it then it's NAI. Even then, a flat out lie isn't AI as you could just be bad. It's a newb or a very bad scum that would do that considering we have experienced players in here who will call you out on misleading the newbies.

I am, however, beginning to solidify the opinion that you're scum from just that response to me. If you're town please give me something other than discrediting attempts, insults, and theory talk

. I dislike antagonistic players but it's not like I won't work with them if they prove they're town (like Charl in that game I linked). I'll stay largely out of your way to the best of my ability if you can sell me on you being town.

Right now you're looking like scum trying to discredit though.

Withholding my vote until I do my re-read and update all my notes. (Not sure when this will happen as it's Mother's Day in Australia so I have the day planned out. I will try to do it sometime today but if not it'll be tomorrow.)

Laser - RVS post seems very stiff & formal.
Kind of defensive post feel in response to singer, then feels a little antagonistic for no reason. Seems playstyle though. Will have to read previous game to see if there's truth in IC thing. Otherwise fluff.
Null (nullscum?)

Notes from yesterday when I reviewed the game. You were at a nullscum before you started this bullshit. If you are town then I find your behaviour right now anti-town.

I already told you why I didn't want to vote you yet. I don't want to vote you because I just might dislike you. Disliking someone doesn't mean they're scum. Someone having an antagonistic style does not make them scum.

It's fine to talk about theory but it's not fine to hide behind that as though nothing else has happened in the game worth commenting on. I had that problem with Cakez but he stepped up to play ball. You refusing to makes it more likely that you're scum

. I'm not going to bother responding again until I have done what I said I would, as this argument is increasingly becoming incredibly unhelpful.

My next questionable slots would be alban, tank, and singer.

I need to check up on the no one engaging with Robert comment from alban. tank needs to engage more, and singer is VLA so I won't expect anything from her until roughly my wednesday (American tuesday), but I want her to weigh in hardcore when she's back. If that requires her taking a day or two I want a post from her saying as such.

Alban is possibly town. I can see his angles for a lot of things. The Robert thing was founded, no one has really pushed on him and he could be scum flying under the radar. I still think he's town though

. Notes on him below:

Robert - Open joking RVS. Doesn't feel forced.
2nd post wasn't commenting on anythign that had happened, just answering my experience question.
49 is ok but I want to see follow up.
Null (Null town)
71 is very strong for town. Pretty much bleeds it.
Laser points out that Robert had the first sign of scumhunting with 15 and I agree.
Town

tank - WTF was that first post?
Post 22 feels off but not sure why.
No opinion stated since 22 and 53 is a fluff post. Trying to look busy.
Null (Null scum?)

This is actually (sadly) my closest to a scum read

if I end up liking alban for town

. Because of this I'm going to..

VOTE: tank

Combination of gut & PoE.

I want a tank lynch at this stage. He's new and

new scum I feel is more likely to lurk because they don't know what to do unless they had an experienced person direct them before the game. I don't think his potential partner would give him advice such as "post as much as possible and i can spin it as town" such as Nacho did with kage in my last game

. I do have an idea on a partner if he does flip, but regardless

I think the slot has been trying to hide

.

Everyone else... Thoughts on that previous paragraph? Especially Robert since your RVS vote is still on him.

Decided to bold the last bit there since I can't remember if I brought that up for my "parts where I scumhunted/townhunted" bit.

Kind of? There's a little more to it than the one post, but that definitely made the flip where my paranoia felt like just that - paranoia. Your RVS post felt loose and generally unconcerned with hiding, so on a gut read level I would usually call that townish. I didn't because it's you and I honestly wouldn't put it past you to be able to do that as either alignment. Your 31 showed that you were trying to figure out Xisiq. Granted, it could have been from either alignment and I may just like that it came across as a defense of me, but it felt like you were trying to get a handle on his intent/motivations there which I like for a town!Cakez too.

Your post in response to me was just solid. Your reads were good and showed that you have been scumhunting and imo thinking about the game more than what you had put out there. I could see the thought process you followed to reach your conclusions even if I might not agree with them. I get that you could do this as either alignment if you're good enough, but none of that felt fake, if that makes sense? You didn't make a bs excuse for missing my unvote, which also works in your favour. Though you would probably do that as either alignment anyway.

There's generally a lack of scummy things from you, I think, and enough towny things that I can't really justify even the 70% certainty as opposed to something higher. Or the flat town read instead of "Strong Town" which is where I'll pretty much WK. You're not conftown to me and can't be just yet because I know how strong your scum game is. It's probably frustrating for you but if you're town take it as a compliment. I doubt you'd ever need a newbie to WK you anyways

Honestly the main thing that still bugs me is:

All right sounded like you were over-sure of yourself

I don't know why this rubs me the wrong way but it does. As Xisiq pointed out, the only way he could be sure of anything was with moderator supplied information, so I guess my real problem is the redundancy of this? Or perhaps the dismissive tone I feel I'm picking up? Could you expand on why you felt the need to drop this line?

The above was a combination of paranoia, analysis and town/scumhunting.

It's likely the playstyle difference. It came across as defensive partially because of the aggressive feel to the first paragraph. Then later you blatantly telling singer to be better felt..mean? She hadn't done much yet so I didn't feel it quite warranted the tone,

especially considering that when I asked why you thought she asked the question your response was fully reasonable, and not something I was expecting with the tonal posting "have a cookie" comment. Playstyle and personality difference, more than likely.

My reads are fluid and being constantly re-evaluated.

The scumlean to town reads may very well end up back at scum by the end of the day. I have

varying degrees of confidence in each read

. For example, I'm about 95% confident in the lucca is town read. If he's scum then I'm not seeing it. My read on Cakez is like 70% confidence, and my read on you has an even lower confidence rating (probably somewhere around 30%ish). You're all town but

the likelihood of the reads changing any time soon are pretty different

.

Scum did not have day chat. The newbie scum just flat out sheeped his partner on the vote.

The way I see it is newbie scum tends to be less confident and looking for guidance. Directly or indirectly that affects their actions and so they'll lean a little more on their partner than you would see someone more experienced doing.

I ended up doing a quick reread of your post with the question "can I possibly see this as town?" in my mind.

I don't agree with most of your points, I'll be honest, but I can see the angle you're working from

. I'll be blunt, I flat think you're wrong on near everything. That's my personal opinion, though, and it's important to note that we have different ways of looking at the game.

For example, judging people by activity. I can see the thought process there

. It lines up with Necrogirl getting bored, yeah? The reasoning being that her role there was more likely to make her feel bored. I see activity as a time/personality thing. I have a lot of spare time, for example. I'm fairly young (22) and verbose.

Likewise the opinion that newbie scum would be more brash I feel is off the mark. The opinion that an experienced scum would keep a low profile is off (they know they need to keep up appearances so I think they'd post more usually unless RL got in the way). The opinion that flip-flopping of votes means much when we were still in RVS.

Then you said you don't like that I'm too analytical, but you make a general statement that you like early analytical players and therefore like Cakez for town. Which just feels inconsistent. I get that you judge people differently based off experience but I feel like your conclusions on what experienced vs non experienced players would do are the exact opposite of my opinion of it.

It read ok to me. Sort of like "I believe one of you will flip scum."

It could be seen as lining up mislynches, though.

Also, I really dislike the "Cakez is right" thing. I get that you came to your own conclusion and all that but I seem to see scum use the same kind of wording in opens or theme games when I read them and so it rubs me the wrong way.

Cakez, thoughts on the sheeping with wording? Am I off base here?

@lucca -

what I'm doing is essentially townhunting. I don't expect scum to make major slips, but those I find least townie are those I find most suspicious by process of elimination.

Singer is closest to true null for me. I can't pressure her when she is quite literally not here. I don't know what you'd expect from that other than the game stalling.

tank is on the scummy side because

I feel he's quiet and coasting

. His first post leaves a lot to be desired too. Basically,

he seems to be trying to look like he's in the game while hiding out

. I don't see your point with the daytalk. I meant pre-game. Nacho told kage to post as much as possible as he could spin anything he posted into a town motivation if he did so in the pre-game of my first newbie.

I went into the alban thing while you were posting. I will say now since alban has posted that Xisiq,

I'm looking at the possibility of alban being tank's partner if tank flips scum

.

His read on the slot was the most out of place I found so far, with the most reachy explanation

.

Of course, if tank is town then that's a moot point.

Me boiling it down to tank was not easy in the slightest. I had to clear Cakez, I had to clear you, I had to clear Xisiq. I had to interact with you, Cakez, Xisiq, Laser to try to get a feel.

Never lynching in this: lucca, Cakez, Robert
Not lynching in this today: Xisiq
If he does more scummy things this will be in my lynch-pile otherwise no: Laser
Need more from her: singer
Feels discredity and inconsistent with an out of place read on tank: alban
Feels like coasting, hiding, newbie scum: tank

Now, either stop throwing shade every which way and just vote me, or help me push through this tank lynch.

Xisiq,

now that alban has responded, which is what I was waiting for... My potential pairing if tank flips scum is alban for the out of place read, and the Robert scumread & vote since Robert is voting tank

. Obviously,

if tank doesn't flip scum then I have to re-evaluate everything

and form new reads.

Pedit: nevermind you did vote. Funnily enough I think I addressed your question here anyway.

I feel like this post had a lot of points so I tried to extra emphasize what I was getting at. If I missed the mark let me know please.

Good point on the cakez thing, I actually hadn't considered that

. As far as your IC spiel.. well, you'll see my thoughts on that

Reconsidering something.

K

finding your reasoning solid for both those

. Moving on...

What's your town read on singer? So far she hasn't done all that much, and

I'm wary of catch ups since they're so easy to hide behind

. I like the questionings but it

feels just a little too late to do with most of her questions. I feel a lot of her content so far could have just as easily come from mafia as from town, just like you said about alban.
Not to say I'm necessarily scumreading or townreading her atm, personally I want to see more from her slot before leaning definitively any way, which is why I find it curious you have her at weak town.

I did like the alban vote from her but I think I'm biased there since I think he's scum

You've been looking pretty solid since you replaced in, so that means I will have to re-evaluate my reads in a bit.

VOTE: alban

I wanna wait for singer & cakez to weigh in and Xisi's answer to my question so I'll be largely around if there are any questions you have for me but otherwise trying to shut up for a bit.

He cleaned up the slot rather nicely imo. Read on alban is still the same, though, I think he's scum regardless of pre-flips after his reactions.

Noted your comments.

Liked your continued catch up. Want to see more of you in the game from here

if that's okay?

As I said earlier, it's easy for scum to hide behind catch up posts.

I don't

exactly

know how to differentiate between scum and general antagonism but I do have reasons I don't wanna lynch him today. I think he might just be someone harder to read in general (not as hard as, say, KTS.. or Kain Tepes).

I want benefit of the doubt here til D2 barring something drastic happening.

That is my explanation. You know exactly why I was down to data, and you know

it wasn't a very strong scumread so much as PoE because of townhunting

. You don't like townhunting (but only when I do it, let's remember, since

you didn't suspect Xisi for it

), and I don't like your experience whatever it is you're trying to do. Difference is townhunting has been proven to work, where your experience thing is literally stabbing in the dark based on entirely what you think. You're not even pulling stuff that is known (such as

newbscum sheeping their more experienced partner, because they do that a fair bit

).

Anyway, I can't actually see anything relevant to the game other than us arguing about our theories at this point, but

basically the town hunting thing was that you gave me flak for it but Xisi stated he'd do the same thing early on and you like him for town

based on...experience? Check the wiki, town hunting is in there. There's your theory.

Anyway,

the IIoA is a null read for you I thought in 69. The awkwardness of the conclusions is not

. I think we're just clogging up the thread right now so if you have direct questions that you want answered put them in list form and I'll answer them.

I'm a little wary of Vox.

I'm scared of buddying & my reads being influenced by his defense of me

. Urgh. (lol Cakez the urgh made me think of you... bet you won't be dropping that one anymore )

Again, if someone wants to give me criticism about any of this after the game I would really really love that because I didn't get suspected much in my first game and that is making this different (as well as other ongoings I can't talk about yet). I really want to improve so whatever advice I can get to improve my play would be greatly appreciated after the game (when I can trust y'all )

Just answering this before continuing my catchup.

After my vote on you, I felt like your posts are very very much better. I agree with you that you are analysing now, but I don't feel like you were analysing so much before. On your posts on me, I feel like you were analysing, but, from an other point of view, I can see it was you defending yourself, trying to take the pressure out of you, when you say stuff like the Two Sides of A Coin thing.

Your first read list was not analysing at all, aside from Laser and Me, you say that almost everybody is null because they weren't there at the moment. On your #74 and #75 you were analysing, I will give you that. Your discussion with Laser was more you being defensive then you analysing him, but your retraction was analysing.

I feel like you already know how I felt about your second read list and the whole list of no reads and all. Also, I see that you quoted #88. Can you explain your thought process on that post? I feel like I asked this at least four times on the game.

I'm bolding this:

Jae, can you compare #88 and #112 and explain your thought process for me?

[lucca261]

Xisiq #204

Spoiler:

VOTE: Alban

This is L-1

@SirCakez

: No claim demand? No request for hammers?

Why would I request a claim or hammer? There's still time and I want alban to respond to my posts.

Discussion is pro-town. I feel a lot better about you.

I'm not in love with the wagon though. I feel you and Jae are powerlynching town. I'm also perturbed about my top scumread and a null/scum composing the rest of it.

Any chance I can interest you in a Vox Dei lynch?

I like that post, oddly because I don't usually like posts from Xisiq. I feel like it's probably a difference on playthrought, but whatever.

I don't like that wagon too, specially the speed on which the wagon did go to L-1, specially considering that, I think, the only player that would oppose a Alban lynch is Laser. So, unless the scum team is Laser/Alban, if Alban is scum, there is bussing going on. I almost hammered when doing my catchup, and Robert scumreads him too.

You can try and interest me in a Vox lynch. I may be overthinking, but I keep looking at Alban posts and thinking: This is too easy. If alban was scum, he would not be so frustrated. And I don't like Vox position on the wagon.

Vox #206

Not quoting it, because I can't do it without fucking the BBCode, but let's go:

The reason that I said to Xisiq that he can try and make me interested on your lynch is because I don't like this post, nothing at all:

- I like your answers about #180, and the first part of the post. I like your read on me, don't like the Robert one, but I can see your point. But I hate the answer about Jae thinking that you're buddying him. The only way that you need to be sure that Jae is not being manipulated by you? It feels like you answered this with a Scum POV.
- Also, I don't like you giving that link. It absolutely proves anything. If so, it's a point against you. That it's why I didn't like it. I feel like you are a good player, but, even if you are town, giving a link that is a point against you is bad, because if you are mislynched, town loses a lynch, but whatever. The only way giving that link is a good play is if you are a scum player using WIFOM. And looking at your comments, it seems like you are a good player.
- Also, on your thoughts, I feel that maybe you are lining up lynches when you use Alban number of people that want to lynch him. Actually, not when you say that, but when you, after calling Xisiq, Singer and me potencial town players, is a possibly partner of Alban. This may be seem as a little defensive, but I can't see how you think of me as a possible partner for Alban, sorry.

A question for you:

- What's your opinion on Robert catchup?

Cakez #214 and #215

Two good posts by Cakez, and I agree with almost everything in these posts, except the Vox part. Cakez is my biggest town read right now, I think. He is pretty clear with his points, is scumhunting, and I see his points coming from a town POV.

Jae #217

Hey, I almost feel like you need Cakez opinion on each post you make. Just an observation.
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Vox is talking about that link again, and I don't like it, again.
I like Singer posts on this page a lot, and she is probably my second biggest townread, after Cakez.