A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!
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Eddard Stark Mafia Scum
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Last edited by Eddard Stark on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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Benmage Survivor
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Plessiezarus Goon
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Dolorous Edd Goon
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In post 21, Minimum wrote:In post 15, Tyene Sand wrote:I'm not Tammy, Minimum, I'm Tierce. Tammy = Lyanna.
We'll see.
Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.
Umm, I don’t see this (the part about picking scum can be worse that 2 townies dying). Scum already have a nightkill. Giving them one extra vig shot cannot cause that much more mayhem, esp vs killing a scum off. Plus it would lower down the suspect pool if they’re a suspicious person.
In either case, I see killing off a suspicious person doing more good than harm. Choosing someone out of policy is pointless. Why no policy lynch the first day and have the suspicious person sent to kill Snow instead?Currently alt of Ser Arthur Dayne. Formerly hydra of Bodean44 (Alek) and Ser Arthur Dayne.
"The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints - 'the ground's too cold, my gravestone should be larger, why does HE get more worms than I do...'"-
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Dolorous Edd Goon
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Oh dear. We're going backwards in time :/
~Fixed.Last edited by Eddard Stark on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.Currently alt of Ser Arthur Dayne. Formerly hydra of Bodean44 (Alek) and Ser Arthur Dayne.
"The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints - 'the ground's too cold, my gravestone should be larger, why does HE get more worms than I do...'"-
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Dolorous Edd Goon
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In post 27, Benmage wrote:Mina why did you switch your rvs already?
I could've sworn that second vote was a bit more serious, no? Esp considering Starbuck's awkward start.
Are you his scumbuddy?Currently alt of Ser Arthur Dayne. Formerly hydra of Bodean44 (Alek) and Ser Arthur Dayne.
"The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints - 'the ground's too cold, my gravestone should be larger, why does HE get more worms than I do...'"-
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Starbuck Jack of All Trades
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Dolorous Edd wrote:Worriedmuch?
No. I just think people would be more careful about who they Choose than just treating it like a random vote.
Tyene Sand wrote:I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.
+1
Benmage wrote:Why is everyone choosing so whimsically?
That's my thought exactly.<3 Kise, Reck, dram, tans, & Kats <3-
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Benmage Survivor
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In post 31, Dolorous Edd wrote:In post 27, Benmage wrote:Mina why did you switch your rvs already?
I could've sworn that second vote was a bit more serious, no? Esp considering Starbuck's awkward start.
Are you his scumbuddy?
Yep."ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216-
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Minimum Goon
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In post 10, Starbuck wrote:Vote: MoIfor loving all the same fandoms that I do.
I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.
What's the difference between a choose before you can get any reads and a vote before you can get any reads?
@Edd: because a scum vig will choose someone who is either obviously town, a likely power role, or the biggest threat to them...and unlike a normal nightkill, there's no chance of interfering with it. As long as the player we choose is someone the scum would probably not want to nightkill, we still come out ahead to choosing scum. (Why not just lynch or vig the obvscum target we'd have chosen instead?)
But since the ideal choose target should be both someone everyone wants dead and town, both a good policy lynch and also likely to make a good vig choice, the whole thing is something of a paradox.
Or alternately, just choose MagnaofIllusion.-
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Benmage Survivor
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You're overthinking it Mina (how surprising)... We use it as a second lynch, and thats it. PL or scummy or whatever.
Also you missed my question on why you voted SB."ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216-
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Plessiezarus Goon
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In post 29, Dolorous Edd wrote:
Umm, I don’t see this (the part about picking scum can be worse that 2 townies dying). Scum already have a nightkill. Giving them one extra vig shot cannot cause that much more mayhem, esp vs killing a scum off. Plus it would lower down the suspect pool if they’re a suspicious person.
In either case, I see killing off a suspicious person doing more good than harm. Choosing someone out of policy is pointless. Why no policy lynch the first day and have the suspicious person sent to kill Snow instead?
I beg to disagree? Giving a potential scum a strongman kill sounds like an extremely bad idea. You'd be basically giving them an unstoppable freebie for signing off plus their factional kill.
~Zar-
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Minimum Goon
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Benmage, you should probably learn to tell me and CES apart soon, or this game will get confusing for you. I'm pretty sure I know why he voted her even though he hasn't told me, though.
Why do you find that vote particularly interesting?
In post 10, Starbuck wrote:Vote: MoIfor loving all the same fandoms that I do.
I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.
After how long you've been looking forward to this game, you're totally okay with dying on D1? Not going to argue with the meanies ganging up on you?
(Likewise for Benmage, except strike the meanies part.)-
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MagnaofIllusion has been killed Night 1
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In post 37, Minimum wrote:After how long you've been looking forward to this game, you're totally okay with dying on D1? Not going to argue with the meanies ganging up on you?
(Likewise for Benmage, except strike the meanies part.)
VOTE: Minimum
Why so worried?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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VOTE: MagnaofIllusion
Obviously.
In post 15, Tyene Sand wrote:I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.
This is a thoroughly weird statement. If it were true, how would towns ever lynch correctly?
I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.
Choose: Tyene Sand-
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Salamence20 Survivor
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Dolorous Edd Goon
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In post 39, Feysal wrote:I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.
This.
Everytime we lynch, scum is putting their input in. But majority is always with town. So picking a target for the mission commander, if he's town, will be like picking a lynch.
OTOH, if the commander strongly disagrees, he can pick his own target. He's town, so it will be town-minded. But that doesn't mean town shouldn't offer their input just because scum have some influence.Currently alt of Ser Arthur Dayne. Formerly hydra of Bodean44 (Alek) and Ser Arthur Dayne.
"The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints - 'the ground's too cold, my gravestone should be larger, why does HE get more worms than I do...'"-
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Starbuck Jack of All Trades
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Minimum wrote:What's the difference between a choose before you can get any reads and a vote before you can get any reads?
I guess there really isn't one. I just would rather put my Choose vote on someone that could be trusted to follow through on the action rather than give it scum or a policy lynch.
I know we can gain info from the Choose votes, but I still question those who immediately Chose someone because, again, it should not fall into the hands of the scum.<3 Kise, Reck, dram, tans, & Kats <3-
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Minimum Goon
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In post 38, MagnaofIllusion wrote:In post 37, Minimum wrote:After how long you've been looking forward to this game, you're totally okay with dying on D1? Not going to argue with the meanies ganging up on you?
(Likewise for Benmage, except strike the meanies part.)
VOTE: Minimum
Why so worried?
It's because I'm terrified that if you're chosen today, you'll vig scum and weaken my team. Because I'm incapable of moving my own vote off you right now, so all I can do is discourage other people (such as yourself) from placing one.
Or, you know, because your self-vote is odd and I want to know your motivations behind placing it.-
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hasdgfas Jack of All Trades
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Vote: Minimum
Choose: Dolorous Edd
Two scum caught already. Beautiful.
In post 39, Feysal wrote:VOTE: MagnaofIllusion
Obviously.
In post 15, Tyene Sand wrote:I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.
This is a thoroughly weird statement. If it were true, how would towns ever lynch correctly?
I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.
Choose: Tyene Sand
Yes, everything we say will influence them, but we're not going to treat it like another lynch. Like a normal vig, it's amuchbetter idea to have them make their own decision, because lynches still have a much higher level of scum input than a vig choosing who to shoot on their own.jdodge1019: hasjghsalghsakljghs is from vermont
jdodge1019: vermont is made of liberal freaks and cows
jdodge1019: he's not a liberal
jdodge1019: thus he is a cow-
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Tyene Sand Goon
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What makes you think the choices have been whimsical? Mine was far from it.In post 17, Benmage wrote:Why is everyone choosing so whimsically? It should be peoples #2 scum suspect... and it pointless to do now.
Giving potential scum a vig N1 does not seem, in any way, a harmful thing. Unless they have day powers, there is no way they will know for certain who is a PR come N1. A 1-for-1 trade when we are at the least-information state would be wonderful, though the odds obviously are on town-killing-other-town. Scum getting a suicide vig that theyIn post 21, Minimum wrote:Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.mustuse on N1 would be the least of our problems.
It's a true statement, and I find it odd that you of all people would take issue with it--townIn post 39, Feysal wrote:
This is a thoroughly weird statement. If it were true, how would towns ever lynch correctly?In post 15, Tyene Sand wrote:I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.
I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.
Choose: Tyene Sanddoesvote/lynch worse than random in most situations. Scumhunting is hard, otherwise the game would be no fun. A town vig is town and town alone, and even if they get things wrong, we know there was no tampering, etc. (They'll be dead anyway, so motivation is kind of pointless but still.) PEdit: OHashai Cow.
There is nothing wrong with stating who we'd like to be our nominal Jon Snow, but I disagree with attempts to direct actions on N1.Going on vacation this summer? Choose Sand! Choose beautiful women! Choose questionable rebellion! Choose Areo Hotah's boring POVs! Choose Darkstar! Choose Alleras the Sphynx! Choose Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood. (That will fail.)-
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Plums Yo Mamma Goon
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In post 10, Starbuck wrote:I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.
I'm surprised that you're surprised. We do vote right off the bat without reads. This is a bonus lynch with potential extra bonus (or moderate detriment, but still an extra lynch Day 1, which is nice).
VOTE: Starbuck
In post 19, Staeg wrote:P-edit: tierce, you're wrong, vigs have a much lower % of hitting scum than lynches, so yeah.
Some players are very good Vigs (or situationally have the potential to Vig better than Lynch percentage).
If we want to choose a policy-Lynchee type of approach, well, usually the players apt to garner serious policy lynch votes are unlikely to use Vig kills to best advantage.
In post 36, Plessiezarus wrote:I beg to disagree? Giving a potential scum a strongman kill sounds like an extremely bad idea. You'd be basically giving them an unstoppable freebie for signing off plus their factional kill.
~Zar
What Benmage said. 1-for-1 Town-for-scum trades are worth it basically by definition.
Choose: Dolorous Edd
Sheeping Cow some. But having thought about sheeping him, the following:
In post 14, Dolorous Edd wrote:In post 10, Starbuck wrote:I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.
Worriedmuch?
VOTE: Starbuck
But no Choose vote input in that post. For that matter, he's paragraphing musing about Choosing scum? Right, okay. What.-
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Feysal Mafia Scum
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In post 42, Starbuck wrote:I just would rather put my Choose vote on someone that could be trusted to follow through on the action rather than give it scum or a policy lynch.
Do I understand right? You don't want to choose either scum or a policy lynch candidate, but you would rather send a town read in the hopes that said town read vigs scum?
In post 42, Starbuck wrote:I know we can gain info from the Choose votes, but I still question those who immediately Chose someone because, again, it should not fall into the hands of the scum.
First of all, the likelihood of someone getting locked as the assassin during RVS is no higher than someone being lynched in RVS. We have 28 players in game, most of whom have not even posted yet. You can't seriously be worried that someone would suddenly be chosen at this stage.
Secondly, you don't want to choose scum? Are you out of your mind? If we choose scum, in the best case said scum misses town and cross kills rival scum, and in the worst case he kills town, resulting in a one for one trade. If we choose town, in the best case said town succeeds at killing scum, and in the worst case he misses and kills town, resulting in two town members lost. On night one, working from limited information, the worst case scenario is far more likely too. When the best case scenario of choosing town is the same as the worst case scenario of choosing scum, it should be obvious what we should do.
UNVOTE: MagnaofIllusion
VOTE: Starbuck-
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Dolorous Edd Goon
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In post 47, Feysal wrote:If we choose scum,in the best case said scum misses town and cross kills rival scum, and in the worst case he kills town, resulting in a one for one trade.
This is multiball?
How can you be so sure (unless it's made obv somewhere)?Currently alt of Ser Arthur Dayne. Formerly hydra of Bodean44 (Alek) and Ser Arthur Dayne.
"The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints - 'the ground's too cold, my gravestone should be larger, why does HE get more worms than I do...'"-
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Tyene Sand Goon
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