Mini 1401 - Game over!

[Malakittens]

@Mala

Instead you did nothing as I said gave off the illusion that you can care less about them.

Why would scum care less than town?

What is the town-motivation for making a filer post?

You've just established that your second accusation is null.

There could have been other things that you could have said, but chose to ignore.

Like what?

Why are you so convinced he's scum. Why isn't there a possibility in your mind that he might actually be town?

What? He's leaning scum.
Also, answer the question. You said "regardless of alignment". Why wouldn't you want scum-conman to support his own lynch?

6) How is it vote worthy?

It's a terrible reason for calling me scum, probably the worst i've ever seen. Scum make fake reasons for calling town "scum". That's what I think you're doing.
How does me not being threatened by votes make me scum?

A recent game of mine I stopped thinking that vote hopping is a scummy thing.

What do you think of it now? [/quote]

---

1. Town should be more paranoid of votes honestly. Especially unexplained and not well reasoned votes. Scum don't really have to be worried about votes on them unless it's shown that more votes are going to put them in danger.

2. Unless scum are using filler posts to make them look like they are hunting. Town shouldn't be making filler posts at all. Which is why filler posts are more likely to come from scum rather than town.

3. What you addressed in your page 3 post could have been posted on during Page 2. You could have talked about NS's post #31 and his vote on Fitz or the two votes against you. Gorgon was making good posts which you didn't post thoughts regarding.
That's only a few things that could have been addressed rather than the post that had your unvote, but along with asking Slandaar an non-important question. (We have established that it was non-important because you don't remember why you asked it in the first place)

4. He's leaning scum to you, but you are willing to hammer him and you want a claim.
There's many reasons why players wouldn't want scum to support their own lynch. It makes it harder to actually find the other remaining scum. I'd be all for scum to support their own lynch when they are the last one alive, but not during Day 1 or even other Days without scum flips. It makes it so much easier to find connections with scum flips when they don't support their own lynch as opposed to days when they support it.

5. Yet I think you are wrong because if others were to ISO you they would also find that you haven't really been hunting for scum.

6. Why do I have to answer a question in which you already have the answer. The answer is within the quote that you are wanting me to answer.

----

@D3x:

There was some things that my predecessor did that I didn't approve of, but it didn't make him scummy. The vote for the no lynch was the worse thing that I didn't like. Mainly because I have never seen a no lynch happen on Day 1 on this site.

He was also very wishy-washy when it came to the topic of Kthx, but also Conman.

I thought of his vote and then unvote on Conman was something that scum wouldn't have done.

Post 239 was showing that he was trying to hunt, but he seemed lost on where to go which then triggered his No Lynch vote.

Taking all his posts into order he was leaning town for me rather than scum. Solid town? No, but I can't say that his play was Solid scum.

---

@Gorgon:

After reading my current posts do you still think I'm scummy? If you don't think I'm scummy why is your vote still on me?

Same question would apply to Saint, but he's V/LA, but he needs to answer this once he returns.

[Malakittens]

@Conman:

Is there any reason why you left players names off your reads list?

Where does SiN and Saint fall into that list?

If you could possibly explain your scum reads that would be helpful.

[Malakittens]

Wanted to press preview rather than submit. Almost 1 am and it's getting late and I'll be heading to bed after this.

@Con:

What is the reason that Slandaar changed from a scum read in this post to a town read in this post?

Also what was the reason for the change in Kthx leaning to town rather than scum?

@NS:

Are you actually going to even attempt to hunt anywhere or even post thoughts on other players than Conman?

What convinced you out of SiN's post that makes you think Fitz is scum?

[TheConman17]

@Mala Slandaar is no longer acting scummy
@Mala(Again)
SiN: Town
Saint: %60 scum

[Malakittens]

@Conman:

Still didn't answer all of the questions.
Is there a reason why you left SiN and Saint out of your list?
What changed regarding Kthx?

[Gorgon]

Absta is town btw

Explain plz.

1. Town should be more paranoid of votes honestly. Especially unexplained and not well reasoned votes. Scum don't really have to be worried about votes on them unless it's shown that more votes are going to put them in danger.

'Shoulds' don't necessarily have to apply to actual behaviour. There are a lot of things that people do that they shouldn't do, logically speaking. I get where you're going with your case though and I note that absta responds to it in very much the same way as he responds to Huntress' case (regarding the very same post #44 but for a different reason, funnily enough); fires back with a question instead of explaining what he was thinking back then.

2. Unless scum are using filler posts to make them look like they are hunting. Town shouldn't be making filler posts at all. Which is why filler posts are more likely to come from scum rather than town.

Agreed.

There's many reasons why players wouldn't want scum to support their own lynch. It makes it harder to actually find the other remaining scum. I'd be all for scum to support their own lynch when they are the last one alive, but not during Day 1 or even other Days without scum flips. It makes it so much easier to find connections with scum flips when they don't support their own lynch as opposed to days when they support it.

Agreed as well. While self-votes possibly give some information, scum being on their own lynch wagon gives no real information about any player except said scum, which doesn't matter since the scum is confirmed and dead at the end of the day anyway. Which incidentally make scum more likely than town to self-vote in my eyes, especially when they seem to be close to getting lynched anyway, as the self-vote works to deprive the town of information, especially if the scum hammers himself and just ends the day.

@Gorgon:

After reading my current posts do you still think I'm scummy? If you don't think I'm scummy why is your vote still on me?

Well, I find you townish since you ask. The reason I haven't changed my vote is that I haven't taken the time to evaluate the game closely enough. Until now that is - your question worked to prod me into it. I note that NS has posted very little of substance and his two non-random votes are very clear cases of following. There's absolutely no initiative in those posts (except possibly in the attempted bluff in #92, which I mainly find weird). This is scummy.

VOTE: Nobody Special

[Kthxbye]

Ok, conman has literally one post to say something substantial before I push straight up for a PL.

[d3x]

@kthx- why do you think we are best served by a policy lynch 1+week from deadline? do you think conman is the scummiest player atm?

[Kthxbye]

Not calling for his lynch right this second for one. I feel that yes, he is the scummiest but there is also the possibility he's the biggest VI I've ever played with. Either way, I don't/can't trust him. I do think we can garner Intel on him after his flip though. On phone now, but I will write a post on my thoughts on both him flipping scum and flipping town.

[havingfitz]

^What Kthx said wrt CM except now works IMO.


@Huntress...when I made my initial gripe about ace getting off the Conman wagon it was because of gut. Conman's wagon seemed to finally be getting somewhere (qwint had just put him at L-1) and

then

ace decides to not support it. In my catch up post the other day I looked the unvote over more closely and questioned ace's rationale. So first objection...gut. Later...rationale. ace's rationale for unvoting was "mostly due to SiN in post 161". Have you looked at Post 161? That's a bunch of gibberish and excuse making from SiN on Conman's behalf for what is essentially a WIFOM defense of himself (by Conman). Then SiN decides for some reason that this makes Conman town. Crap.

So as I do not accept SiN's defense of Conman = I do not accept ace's reasoning that it's a good enough reason to unvote Conman.

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote Tally 1.8

havingfitz (L - 4):

Singer is Nachomamma, Nobody Special, TheConman17

TheConman17 (L - 4):

havingfitz, qwints, Kthxbye

Malakittens (L - 5):

Saint Kerrigan, absta101

KthxBye (L - 6):

Huntress

Slandaar (L - 6):

d3x

Nobody Special (L - 6):

Gorgon

absta101 (L - 6):

Malakittens

d3x (L - 6):

Slandaar

Pacifists (Not Voting):

((expired on 2012-12-24 23:59:59))

Saint Kerrigan (L - 7):

Gorgon (L - 7):

Singer is Nachomamma (L - 7):

qwints (L - 7):

Huntress (L - 7):

[TheConman17]

Saint inst really posting much

[AngryPidgeon]

Prodding Saint Kerrigan

[Malakittens]

Yet you still dodged my other set of questions, Con.

[Huntress]

@huntress- your first mention of meph is when you say "If Conman flips scum I'd be looking at Mephisto and absta first." did you only find him scummy in relation to conman? as you haven't mentioned him at all, what did you specifically find scummy about him, only his stance against the conman wagon?

I didn't find Meph scummy at all, and I agreed with what he said about Conman. My comment only referred to a possible link in the event that Conman should be scum, which I don't think very likely.

@Huntress...when I made my initial gripe about ace getting off the Conman wagon it was because of gut. Conman's wagon seemed to finally be getting somewhere (qwint had just put him at L-1) and

then

ace decides to not support it. In my catch up post the other day I looked the unvote over more closely and questioned ace's rationale. So first objection...gut. Later...rationale. ace's rationale for unvoting was "mostly due to SiN in post 161". Have you looked at Post 161? That's a bunch of gibberish and excuse making from SiN on Conman's behalf for what is essentially a WIFOM defense of himself (by Conman). Then SiN decides for some reason that this makes Conman town. Crap.

So as I do not accept SiN's defense of Conman = I do not accept ace's reasoning that it's a good enough reason to unvote Conman.

Yes, I read SiN's post and thought he made some sense. So you disagreed with Ace because he agreed with SiN's position on Conman? How would agreeing with SiN make him scummy?

[TheConman17]

@Conman:

Still didn't answer all of the questions.
Is there a reason why you left SiN and Saint out of your list?
What changed regarding Kthx?

No I just forgot they hadn't been posting much

[d3x]

@mod

- i unvoted in p324. thank you!

@huntress- i find it odd that you agreed with what my predecessor said about conman and yet you setup a scum connection between the two at the same time, that seems to be at odds. I also find it odd that out of SK, SiN, absta, & meph, et al, you are picking meph and absta for the 2nd look over.

and of course by odd, i mean scummy.

VOTE: huntress

[Malakittens]

@Qwints:

Now knowing that Conman left two people out of his original read list and has now given a read on them both.. Do you still think the three people you mentioned are a likely team? If so, why?

@Conman:

I can understand leaving out Saint, but SiN has been shouting that you were town rather than scum. He is someone who I wouldn't have forgotten to add into a list.

So, I'm not really liking Kthx's successive tunneling at this point.

[havingfitz]

@Huntress...when I made my initial gripe about ace getting off the Conman wagon it was because of gut. Conman's wagon seemed to finally be getting somewhere (qwint had just put him at L-1) and

then

ace decides to not support it.

Yes, I read SiN's post and thought he made some sense. So you disagreed with Ace because he agreed with SiN's position on Conman? How would agreeing with SiN make him scummy?

Well you obviously didn't read mine. I never said agreeing with SiN made ace scummy. I said him voting felt like scum hopping off a mislynch...I called it gut due to my initial reaction which I describe in your quote above...and upon further review of his unvote (due to SiN's post 161) I still did not like his unvote because I thought SiN's reasons sucked. Ask again and I'll type the same thing again.

[TheConman17]

@Mala me neither

[d3x]

SiN has been shouting that you were town rather than scum. He is someone who I wouldn't have forgotten to add into a list.

are you getting at something here, mala? b/c i'm not seeing it.

[Malakittens]

@Con: the me either is to which part? Kthx or the read list?

[TheConman17]

SiN has been shouting that you were town rather than scum. He is someone who I wouldn't have forgotten to add into a list.

are you getting at something here, mala? b/c i'm not seeing it.

Good point where are you getting at Mala?

[Malakittens]

@D3x:

If someone is defending me and basically throwing multiple posts out saying the same message, it's something I personally wouldn't forget. Which makes me wonder why in the first place that he forgot about SiN.

Been two recent games where players have done similar things as SiN has here and they turned out to be scum.

This makes me want to look at SiN more closely tbh.

[d3x]

I do think we can garner Intel on him after his flip though.

what would a vi flip tell you? i find it very odd that you're seemingly of the belief that conman's vi, but you keep pursuing his lynch so hard. you hardly seem convinced by his scum alignment. and i don't buy the 'i can't trust him' schtick. policy lynches are weaksauce and you know it.