Open 444: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem! OVER, MVPs!

[D3f3nd3r]

Thread unlocked.

Deadline is now October 5 at 3 PM EDT.

[rapidcanyon]

Mod, could you post the list of currently active players again? I'd do it but I am not sure if it is allowed.

[D3f3nd3r]

List of people alive is the first post of Page 1, Last post of each player is Activity Overview on the bottom right of each page.

[rapidcanyon]

Another mod question, sorry. Is it possible for the other mafiosos (not the dayvig) to submit the kill on behalf of the dayvig or does the dayvig need to do it himself?

[Kimor]

Greetings, everybody. I am currently updating myself on the thread; expect a post tonight, ideally.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote Yabba

Will go through and pick through that but first reaction is the half joy half crushing pain of this meaning RC is town because I dont see RC making that shot as scum.

[rapidcanyon]

RBD, what is your opinion on Whisker's buddying?

[D3f3nd3r]

The Dayvig must personally send me a PM, or he must tell me in the QT.

[rapidcanyon]

The Dayvig must personally send me a PM, or he must tell me in the QT.

Sweet.

1) Klick is not the dayvig.
2) Shaded/Kimor is not the dayvig.
3) Jigglymence is not the dayvig.
4) 2b1s is not the dayvig.
5) Nameuser is not the dayvig.
6) Sweezy is not the dayvig.

7) I could be the dayvig. But I know I am not, narrowing down the choices to:

8) Whiskers could be the dayvig.
9) Rainbowdash could be the dayvig.
10) Yabba could be the dayvig.
11) Johnny could be the dayvig.

This is based purely on when they were last active.

[rapidcanyon]

I am uncertain about RBD when I unvoted.

It is imperative that we hear from all the players alive. I especially want to hear analysis from Klick, Kimor, 2b1s, Nameuser, and Sweezy.

[Rainbowdash]

RC is right, I have no real clue why scum would have shot there when there were so few actives. Basically kill had to come from somepony active in the last 24 hours.

Also I see Whiskers buddying... but its a logical type of defense. I do that all the time as town when I think an attack is bad or on a town read. There are a few things that make me wary there, but im not voting her.

New record for time lived as town in this setup though *yay*

[Whiskers]

@rapid: you can't really discount all of those players just because they aren't active right now, in this game.
they would be active onsite but purposely lurking here, or the mod might allow delayed-kills to be submitted.

[rapidcanyon]

@rapid: you can't really discount all of those players just because they aren't active right now, in this game.
they would be active onsite but purposely lurking here, or the mod might allow delayed-kills to be submitted.

I checked their profiles to see when they were last online.

[rapidcanyon]

Whiskers, did you allow delayed kills in the game that you modded? If so, how did they work?

[Sweezy]

You just proved my point. You argue every f*cking thing to the ground. You might not have called everyone "FUCKING IDIOTS" like you did that other game, but you did insult me, called whiskers and johnny scum for disagreeing with you, and probably insulted them too, i'm not sure, cause i haven't caught up yet, because you just continue and continue and don't shut up and any townie

will take an eternity to get caught up.

Pretty much.

I'm posting from work again, so I won't have anything detailed right off the bat here. Caught up on reading the thread, but I haven't totally digested it yet. Though I will say for now that the interaction between RC's #344 and Eidolon's #345 sheds some light on RC's alignment now that Eido has flipped. I'm getting a vibe of someone who threw a tantrum over his case being refuted by three people, and then finally feeling regret when the one person he respects the most out of all of us took his enemies' side. It feels fairly sincere to me, and allows me to read his prior arguments as (very,

very

) derptown rather than scummy.

I'd like to think Whiskers is town, if only because he (she?) allowed

some

semblance of logic to shine through in the last few pages. RBD...she did a fine job defending herself, and I have no reason to vote her right now. What I can say with a fair amount of confidence is, her and Whiskers are not scumbuddies. If they are, bad idea for Whiskers to come to her rescue like that.

I think we need to take the discussion in two directions now:

1. With Eido's flip, how does this shed light on the posts of long ago? Speculation and wine are the byproducts of having no flips to go on, so now we could clear some of that up with ISOs and such.
2. The scum motivation for vigging Eido. Obviously she was a vocal player who held sway with her arguments, making her dangerous to scum. But of course, scum want to mislead as much as possible and are expecting us to analyze the timing of the shot, not just the target. Because of that, we shouldn't draw hasty connections (like that list of who it could or couldn't be).

aaaaand back to work

[Whiskers]

@rapid: you can't really discount all of those players just because they aren't active right now, in this game.
they would be active onsite but purposely lurking here, or the mod might allow delayed-kills to be submitted.

I checked their profiles to see when they were last online.

Whiskers, did you allow delayed kills in the game that you modded? If so, how did they work?

I don't think it came up, but I would if it did. The game I just finished (where we fought and I actually

WAS

scum), I submitted delayed kills, since I spent a bunch of time offline.

Also-- you checked their profiles, but what if the mod wasn't online when they sent the kill, and made it as soon as he logged on, not when the player actually sent it in?

ALSO, what about, say, Klick, who has his profile set to hide when he's online, and his "last activity" is listed as "--"?

Did you check

all

of them?

Also, this doesn't mean that any one of them isn't

scum

, it just suggests that they are not the Vig, specifically.
I really don't find that much use in this information. We're scumhunting, not vig hunting.

[rapidcanyon]

Klick, Yabba, and RBD had their profiles set to hide. I eliminated Klick because he was on V/LA. Yabba and RBD, I did not eliminate.

We know with certainty that the mod was online Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:10 pm since he made a post then. If the dayvig had not logged on since that time, they should have submitted a kill before then. BUT since the mod was online, he would have carried out the kill. The only explanations are:

a) delayed kills
b) someone who logged on after the mod's last post submitted the kill

We are not necessarily vig hunting but it could save us a townie if we lynch the vig today. I agree with general scumhunting but don't you think the vig should be a priority?

[Whiskers]

We know with certainty that the mod was online Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:10 pm since he made a post then.

If Mod was online at this time,

and the kill was made (in thread, by mod) at this time: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:12 pm, Then only users who were online

before

Sep 27 12:10 pm are cleared (from vig).
and...
2birds:
Last visited: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:53 am

JMC:
Last visited: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:08 pm

Name User:
Last visited:
Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:38 pm
Yeah, okay, I'll buy that. I'll note: I

didn't

check all of them.

However, there is one that might be interesting to look at:

Kimor:
Joined:
Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:20 pm
Last visited:
Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:06 pm
That's,

Idk. Kimor came in,tecnically, after the kill.

We should take into account that D3f prodded Jigglymence shortly prior to the kill, and that, being a hydra, one of them might have sent it in via PM (or even hydra QT).
Oh yeah, that reminds me. Scum have daytalk. Can't they just submit the kills there?

Finally,

@Mod: Do you intentionally wait between receiving a kill and the kill taking effect, or does the kill take effect as soon as you receive it?

@Mod: Can scum send in a nightkill from their Mafia QT, or must they PM you?

[Whiskers]

NU and Birds are my townreads.

[D3f3nd3r]

First: I must be PM'd the kill.
Second: Please stop using "last online" tags for finding the Dayvig. This and similar conditions are now prohibited in my rules.

[Kimor]

Post times aside, based upon my initial review of the thread, I believe that Yabba is likely mafia. It pains me to say that in my first game after returning, 'cause I <3 Yabba, but I am fairly convinced he is scum. Look at the relationship between him and Eidolon - Eidolon had a consistent town read and was attacking Yabba. Yabba tried to counter-attack but gained no traction. While it's a bit of a ham-handed move for an experienced player to pull, thinking too much about that leads us into WIFOM territory. Yabba's interactions with Johnny are also questionable. As I recall, Yabba has a somewhat methodical style of play as well - attacking Johnny for that is rather out of character, but is somewhat populist. I also find Rapidcanyon to generally be scummy; his more recent posts seem like bussing.

Please note, however, these impressions are based upon a very cursory read of the game; I still do not consider myself up to speed yet.

Questions for everybody:
yabbaguy - After this dayvig, who do you believe is mafia and why?
JohnnyFarrar - Do you feel that the attacks upon your methods were scum-based or town-based? Why did you ask for suggestions on who to venge-kill?
JigglymenceP2 * (Hydra, Salamence20 and PMysterious) - Your first reaction upon replacing in was to answer the questions that were submitted pages and pages ago. Why?
Klick - That was a rather unusual breakdown of the players that you made. Why do you believe that only one of Yabba and my predecessor can be scum?
Whiskers - Explain your vote for Yabba in post 231, because it seems very out-of-character for you.
2birds1stone - Why did you feel that Johnny would be better off choosing himself who to kill? It seems a bit like stifling some potentially productive discussion.
Sweezy - Do you feel that all logical players are town? All illogical players scum?
Rapidcanyon - Do you think that the dayvig would be more likely to PM or to use the quicktopic?
Rainbowdash - Can you explain the difference between buddying and logically defending?
Name User - You seem to ask a lot of questions but make few statements. That makes me suspect you. Lay out some suspicions and take some stands, because I am curious to see where your head is at.

[rapidcanyon]

Rapidcanyon - Do you think that the dayvig would be more likely to PM or to use the quicktopic?

I don't know and I don't really care either WHERE they sent the kill. What I wanted to know was the whether the dayvig had to personally send in the kill or if anyone in the mafia could do it on behalf of them. This I would have used to pin who the dayvig was based on the times they were online until the mod stepped is and asked us to not use that analysis.

[rapidcanyon]

Kimor, what is the relevance of the question you asked me as well as the ones you asked others? Who cares where the dayvig submits their kill? You asked sweezy if all logical players are town and all illogical players are scum? What is the point of that question? Also, you call out name user on asking a lot of questions but making few statements. This is exactly what you are doing. So, by your standards you are playing scummy, right?

[Klick]

I'm back. Not reading yet.

[Whiskers]

Third: Please stop using "last online" tags for finding the Dayvig. This and similar conditions are now prohibited in my rules.

I... don't like this. It's not even out of game info. It's like disallowing meta.
I don't think it's helpful or useful (particularly in this case) but I don't think banning it is right either. (also, it's not a particularly powerful was to come to not a particularly powerful result. Why ban it anyway?)

---

Rapidcanyon - Do you think that the dayvig would be more likely to PM or to use the quicktopic?

I don't know and I don't really care either WHERE they sent the kill. What I wanted to know was the whether the dayvig had to personally send in the kill or if anyone in the mafia could do it on behalf of them. This I would have used to pin who the dayvig was based on the times they were online until the mod stepped is and asked us to not use that analysis.

As for that, I know that in my game, a major factor was that the vig had to make the kill herself. Also, since it's a role power, not a factional kill, or a kill-enabler, I'd bet that the kill has to come from the vig.
OfC, there are other differences between this game and the one I ran-- for example, my game didn't have a mandatory, plurality lynch at deadline-- days were only good for spreading out kills.

Also, Mod just said a moment ago that the mafia has to PM him (and the role PM in the first post, now that I've looked, says the same).

---

Whiskers - Explain your vote for Yabba in post 231, because it seems very out-of-character for you.

Wouldn't that imply that you know me, or at least my character? Not sure what you're basing this off of, (and I have trouble keeping a solid meta,) but OK, I'll bite.
Rainbow Dash said, "let's 'snapwagon' Yabbaguy" and I said, "OK." Thus ends the tale of post 231.