Mini 1747: Cinnamon Roll Mafia Endgame

[3dicerolling]

Vote Count: 1.6

Pillsbury Company was founded in 1872 by Charles Alfred Pillsbury, while the Pillsbury Doughboy was created much later in the spring of 1965. They have pledged their conduct to producing the best cinnamon rolls they can. Pillsbury, we salute you.

hawkleader3 - (0)
Soapbar - (0)
FA_Q2 - (0)
MoosyDoosy - (1) MoosyDoosy
toolenduso - (2) TheCow, Chaotic Neutrality
TheCow - (0)
Metrion - (1) iraonavp
Swordsworth - (1) Soapbar
lolbabe - (0)
iraonavp - (0)
Chaotic Neutrality - (4) FA_Q2, toolenduso, Syndesis, hawkleader3

(L-3)

Syndesis - (0)
davesaz - (0)

Not voting: lolbabe, davesaz, Metrion, Swordsworth

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Mod Notes: Soapbar V/LA until Wednesday or Thursday.

Day 1 ends: (expired on 2015-12-27 23:20:59)

[3dicerolling]

Davesaz is being prodded.

[Chaotic Neutrality]

Chaotic Neutrality

why are they lynching you?

They're all following tool blindly because he's the loudest voice. It's really just disgusting and it's making me apathetic.

You've demonstrated multiple times now that your reactionary tendencies in this game prevent you from understanding my thought process

[davesaz]

Weird, I was sure I had posted more recently than that. Maybe it was on my phone and didn't go through.

[Syndesis]

They're all following tool blindly because he's the loudest voice.

Is this the reasoning behind your vote?

[Chaotic Neutrality]

Scummy reasoning and such but yeah.

My lynch is inevitable at this point so idc

[Syndesis]

Is tool scum for the bad push or because he's leading everyone around?

[FA_Q2]

I would also point out that CN has totally avoided my vote. He engaged tool (who had not even voted him at that time either) but said nothing about my read on him. No reaction on tool's vote either though it has only been just under 24hrs so he may not have had the chance.

It was predictable. Was that what you wanted?

You mean that when you post like scum it is predictable that people vote you for it? No, that is not 'what I wanted' but at this point it is clear that you wish to avoid any discussion about your posting.

This is a good lynch.

Putting words into other's mouths. I heard this was all the rage with mafiascum townies nowadays.

If your conviction is strong on CN then at least use a non-fallacious way to rally a lynch mob, it's just slightly harder and CN has done a lot of the work for you.

I didn't put any words into his mouth - I interpreted his empty and pointless responses that have done nothing more than avoid any discussion. I highlighted this reality. I don't really care if you like it or not.

[davesaz]

Swords feels like an experienced player who needs to look newb due to join date, mixed with genuinely not knowing site meta. I see it as slightly scummy, since scum are the ones who need to know how to act. There is another possible interpretation but I won't bring it up now because discussing it is antitown.

Bringing up the reason that you're not going to discuss something because it is antitown is antitown in itself. Like, i don't want to discuss this because it might be that the subject of the discussion is PR, please discuss.

It has been long enough that I don't remember, but looking at Swords posting I feel fairly confident that it was not the kind of vibe you're referring to.

[davesaz]

Intrigued now, what did CN do so fast that he's at L-3 (??)?

Chaotic Neutrality

why are they lynching you?

Did you have any thoughts on this before asking the question?

[davesaz]

Is tool scum for the bad push or because he's leading everyone around?

What are you thinking on tool at this point?
Did you think CN's characterization of his wagon is accurate?

[davesaz]

I'm actually looking forward to people pulling up their socks and I'd like that to happen sooner rather than latter.

I note that while your posts are non-trivial, you have very few of them. Do you anticipate yourself being included in this general bar-raising?
I also have a question, I know this is a bit of a generalization but you seem to be discounting what activity is going on. Care to explain that aspect of your posts?

[davesaz]

With that said, VOTE: Metrion! Let's turn this into a fun game where Metrion flounders about and continues to post scummy things in an attempt to grasp how iraonavp worked out his alignment, while votes pile up on him!

Any plans to either follow this up or make your vote count in another way?

[Syndesis]

Is tool scum for the bad push or because he's leading everyone around?

What are you thinking on tool at this point?

My read hasn't really changed since the last time he posted. Something of a tenuous townlean.

Did you think CN's characterization of his wagon is accurate?

Pretty much, yeah.

You sure like asking questions.

[davesaz]

Chaotic does look objectively scummy -- Moosy is, and has been since the beginning of the game, lynchbait

Or you're blatantly defending scum in an effort to look town. It's pretty clear you're trying very hard to look townie.

I haven't voted Moosy yet because I haven't had a chance to ISO anyone and look in depth at my reads, they're very surface level. But it should be obvious if he gets lynched that I was one of the main people pushing that wagon - I'm not going to magically be free of responsibility when he flips just because I wasn't voting him.

Infact if he flips scum I'm sure someone (you) is going to argue I was bussing. Kinda screwed either way.

He's scummy and it's not his play style that I take issue with.

This man is probably scum tbh. But feel free to lynch me. Just don't be mad when I flip blue - whoops - I mean red. Darn. Totally let out that I'm a power role by accident. Sorry guys, totally my bad, shouldn't do that in the future.

If you have surface reads you expand on them rather than soft pushing lol. And no, it's not me you're having an issue with, it's pretty obvious that it's my playstyle. If you take away all the garbage I've been pulling, I'm probably the person who's been bringing up the most points and giving town a clear direction. We lynch Swordsworth or FA_Q2 who were both early wagons first. Then we use that to judge the people who came afterwards. Unless someone gives a clear case that there is an obvious Mafia I won't switch from this plan and I highly obvious you guys to do the same. Although I'll admit I'm highly tempted to kill Chaotic Neutrality.

Your vote is in a singularly useless place right now. I'm hoping we will soon hear the popping sound that designates your head being pulled out of a dark place.
You really need to at least be playing to your wincon.

[davesaz]

Is tool scum for the bad push or because he's leading everyone around?

What are you thinking on tool at this point?

My read hasn't really changed since the last time he posted. Something of a tenuous townlean.

Did you think CN's characterization of his wagon is accurate?

Pretty much, yeah.

You sure like asking questions.

I prefer asking questions to assuming that I know what people are thinking.

The way I understand it, CN thinks that tool is solely responsible for pushing his wagon, but this contradicts what I'm actually seeing in the thread. FA_Q2 actually started it and has done at least as much. CN is completely ignoring FA (and the other votes too) and focusing only on tool. What do you make of this discrepancy?

[davesaz]

I would also point out that CN has totally avoided my vote. He engaged tool (who had not even voted him at that time either) but said nothing about my read on him. No reaction on tool's vote either though it has only been just under 24hrs so he may not have had the chance.

It was predictable. Was that what you wanted?

You mean that when you post like scum it is predictable that people vote you for it? No, that is not 'what I wanted' but at this point it is clear that you wish to avoid any discussion about your posting.

This is a good lynch.

Putting words into other's mouths. I heard this was all the rage with mafiascum townies nowadays.

If your conviction is strong on CN then at least use a non-fallacious way to rally a lynch mob, it's just slightly harder and CN has done a lot of the work for you.

I didn't put any words into his mouth - I interpreted his empty and pointless responses that have done nothing more than avoid any discussion. I highlighted this reality. I don't really care if you like it or not.

Gotta call this one how I see it. Some townies (like me for example) would reply to 332 with a question like "how was it predictable?". If CN had a valid point, making it as a question prompts discussion, where the way you replied to it cuts that off pretty well. I'm not saying he's going to have some gem to come back with, in fact it might even give him more rope.

[Syndesis]

The way I understand it, CN thinks that tool is solely responsible for pushing his wagon, but this contradicts what I'm actually seeing in the thread. FA_Q2 actually started it and has done at least as much. CN is completely ignoring FA (and the other votes too) and focusing only on tool. What do you make of this discrepancy?

This is a good point but I'm too sleepy to do anything with it right now

[iraonavp]

Oh, I nearly forgot that I was playing in this game! It's lucky I haven't been prodded yet, I am catching up now.

I'm not sure if this is town frustration or scum just wanting someone FoSing them out of the game. Either way I don't find the strange style Moosy adopted to be alignment indicative, it's different which initially made me lean town really, but apparently they've admitted their capable of doing this as scum so I just haven't dwelled on it when considering their alignment.

Is there any other aspect of Moosy's play which you think gives hints to their alignment, or do you have absolutely no clue either way?

[iraonavp]

"Free of responsibility" is the kind of wording you would use when indicating that you would be in trouble. Which implies that moosy would be flipping town, no?

Responsibility boils down to, at the flip, whatever his alignment is, the people on the wagon will typically answer to it. The general idea being that whoever votes for the person being lynched has a higher chance of being scum because a) they're bussing for town cred, or b) they're aiding in a mislynch. You should know that. You do know that.

I still don't quite understand this. Someone not voting on the lynch could be held responsible for ignoring the wagon, even if it was on either town or scum. I mean, you might as well not play if you want to be completely free of this kind of "responsibility"!

[iraonavp]

Yup, lots of accusations of scumminess, not a lot of good articulate reasons. Matched with the activity level of a koala. Legendary game underway here.

Taking action to remedy the problem rather than complaining is the way to fix this.

I'd like at least Iraonavp to post more, it's not fair to put on your theatrics then leave the audience waiting.

My sincerest apologies.

CN & FA are interesting at least.

How is FA_Q2 "interesting"?

Speaking of:

Chaotic may seem a bit more Town after that last post? It looks like he didn't fully get Tool's inference that he scum slipped by assuming Moosy would flip town, or at least didn't answer that explicitly instead droning on about why scum go on lynches. The inference itself was garbage because the scenario painted that he was responded to was that Moosy was "lynchbait" and that's how I expected a scum response to be because they'd most likely be full well aware of that.

Or maybe he genuinely didn't get it.

I believe that Chaotic Neutrality's response to toolenduso's post did show understanding of toolenduso's point. I don't think I even understand what you're trying to say here in some parts...

[lolbabe]

They're all following tool blindly because he's the loudest voice. It's really just disgusting and it's making me apathetic.

So that makes Tool scum. Is there a possibility that he's a stubborn town who refuses to see past his initial point of view? If there is, who is scum?

It has been long enough that I don't remember, but looking at Swords posting I feel fairly confident that it was not the kind of vibe you're referring to.

I do hope so.

Did you have any thoughts on this before asking the question?

There was just one promise-to-catch-up post from CN before page 9 so the only thought I had was that he made an embarrassingly huge scumslip.

Your vote is in a singularly useless place right now. I'm hoping we will soon hear the popping sound that designates your head being pulled out of a dark place.
You really need to at least be playing to your wincon.

Oh wow, Dave is scum.

[iraonavp]

I would still like Metrion lynched today!

He's reaching for reasons to defend Chaotic Neutrality in posts like 334 and 346. 334 is just babbling that makes very little sense and then he magically claims to believe that Chaotic Neutrality is town-aligned at the end. I really don't like 346 because it seems an indirect response to who the vote was on.

That said, I don't actually think that Chaotic Neutrality is likely to be scum-aligned, and I would not vote to lynch him. I feel that his responses to pressure looked like genuine town irritation. I don't support his retaliative push on toolenduso, but I think it came from a town-aligned thought process (from reasoning of toolenduso is wrong, therefore he's scum-aligned, which despite being wrong doesn't make Chaotic Neutrality more likely to be scum-aligned). I don't see why a scum-aligned player would push their accuser (if toolenduso was town-aligned, which I feel is likely to be true), since all that would do is convince their accuser that they were more likely to be scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Your vote is in a singularly useless place right now. I'm hoping we will soon hear the popping sound that designates your head being pulled out of a dark place.
You really need to at least be playing to your wincon.

Oh wow, Dave is scum.

Is this a serious comment, and if so, how does this post make davesaz scum?

[lolbabe]

Is this a serious comment, and if so, how does this post make davesaz scum?

How does Dave know Moosy's alignment when he asks him to play for his wincon? If Moosy's scum, his wincon isn't to help town.
I admit that this is a bold statement but holy cow (sorry, Cow) it does look like scumslip to me.