Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[Albert B. Rampage]

will be back probably the 1st no time to catch up until then

[Zar]

Day 1, Votecount 10, Ammended

AlwaysInnocent (5): Kmd4390, Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

Lowell (3): shaddowez, AlwaysInnocent, Kop
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Yosarian2
Kop (1): texcat
Lucky2u (1): Albert B. Rampage
Yosarian2 (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (1):

acryon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Saturday January 9, 2016 11:30 AM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-09 11:30:00)

Spoiler: Incorrect VC

Day 1, Votecount 10

AlwaysInnocent (4): Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

Lowell (3): shaddowez, AlwaysInnocent, Kop
acryon (1): Kmd4390
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Yosarian2
Kop (1): texcat
Lucky2u (1): Albert B. Rampage
Yosarian2 (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (1):

acryon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Saturday January 9, 2016 11:30 AM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-09 11:30:00)

Kmd4390 is V/LA until Wednesday

Albert B. Rampage is V/LA until Friday

~.Vote count fixed ~~~.Zar

[Aneninen]

The thing I don't understand that Lowell mentioned, is how rofl is a strong town read, ahead of anybody else. I mean I've seen the posts from rofl and I wouldn't class that confidence to be a strong town read, I'm reading them from town POV but I wouldn't put it high up on my list.

What is scummy about Rofl?

As for Lowell, okay, here's something.

@mod

I'll be away from noon tomorrow until Monday morning. I may or may not have internet access during that time (I will try to check in at least once or twice, but don't have a smartphone so it's sort of a pain in the ass).

Can I proxy my vote while I'm away?

~.No <.< ~.Zar

I simply can't imagine a scum asking that. (Although I haven't got the slightest idea what "proxy a vote" means.)

Is there some significance to the fact that Yos (along with other, btw) have made comments about Lowell being scummy before myself and AI voting for him?

I don't know it yet.
It may be important later when there have been a couple of flips.

Right now, my two main suspects are Lowell, and AlwaysInnocent, Lucky2you lingering in third.

This also may be important after a couple of flips. If Kop flips scum, Lucky is likely scum too. (Scums often put a buddy on their scumlist, but only as the 3rd possibility or something like that.)

alwaysinnocent, always following onto bandwagons, never leading

Here's something else.
Counterwagons come and go while the AI-wagon is there. Does this tell us anything? Hm? He? Huh?

VOTE: Kop
Misrep of Lowell's post.

Texcat is town. And I don't like Kop's posts either.

[Aneninen]

Also, AI, I'm still waiting for the answers.

[AlwaysInnocent]

I think the scum can be found in this pool:
{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

This, alongside with your unvote looks important.
Give me some details, please!

I will give details later tonight. I don't have much time now.

Texcat seems town to me.

If I am wrong about Lowell, then Kop could be scum. I don't think they are

both

scum.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

Misrep of Lowell's post. Third on the bandwagon.

How did I misrep Lowells post, I didn't understand the backfire bit at first glance.

I assumed or read it in the manner that the backfire bit added nothing much more to the comment of not speaking much. But reading it back, I now understand what it means, I read it in the manner of him telling about the lynch, and not actually talking about Yos, or possibly telling what Yos to do.

Now over reading the whole thing, that comment I may have taken out of context, but I wasn't scum reading him purely on that post.

The thing I don't understand that Lowell mentioned, is how rofl is a strong town read, ahead of anybody else. I mean I've seen the posts from rofl and I wouldn't class that confidence to be a strong town read, I'm reading them from town POV but I wouldn't put it high up on my list.

What is scummy about Rofl?

I didn't specially say he was scummy. I said that I have seen that similar play before, but I wouldn't put it as a strong town read.

I have seen that play from town, and I've also seen it from scum, however the one from scum, was slightly different play but similar style. If that makes sense?

As for Lowell, okay, here's something.

@mod

I'll be away from noon tomorrow until Monday morning. I may or may not have internet access during that time (I will try to check in at least once or twice, but don't have a smartphone so it's sort of a pain in the ass).

Can I proxy my vote while I'm away?

~.No <.< ~.Zar

I simply can't imagine a scum asking that. (Although I haven't got the slightest idea what "proxy a vote" means.)

I don't know what proxy vote means either, but he did say he was V/LA at the time and wanted to proxy his vote. I wouldn't say that scum wouldn't necessarily do that. It could come from either town or scum.

I see a lot of comments that say scum wouldn't do this or that, in games of mafia, anything is absolutely possible, whether it be from town and scum.

alwaysinnocent, always following onto bandwagons, never leading

Here's something else.
Counterwagons come and go while the AI-wagon is there. Does this tell us anything? Hm? He? Huh?

VOTE: Kop
Misrep of Lowell's post.

Texcat is town. And I don't like Kop's posts either.[/quote]

What's not to like? Let's talk.

[Kmd4390]

Prod dodge. Back tonight

[Yosarian2]

I simply can't imagine a scum asking that. (Although I haven't got the slightest idea what "proxy a vote" means.)

In some mafia rulesets, you can proxy your vote, which means you give another person the right to make your vote for you. Used to be a commonly allowed practice, although only used rarely, especially when someone was on v/la and a deadline was approaching.

No special reason a scum wouldn't do that, if it's allowed. Can be a way to buddy someone, for example.

[Lowell]

unvote

Anyway, turns out the key to avoid lynch is to stop talking. That certainly won't backfire.

VOTE: yos

I'm a fan of 209, and acryon as town.

The other point I disagree with, is when you joined the YOS wagon, you claimed 'the best way to avoid a lynch is to stop talking'.

If you don't want to be lynched, the best way is to prove your worth, to show why you shouldn't be lynched. And if someone is put under pressure by questions, deliberately ignoring them, is going to get you lynched. It might just be me that thinks that, but I think keeping quiet, isn't the key to avoid being lynched.

Kop

, it seems to me that you took Lowell's comment way out of context, leaving off entirely the part about it won't backfire.

Eh, I think Kop just didn't pick up on the sarcasm here. Hard to believe he took my comment earnestly (as a guide?) but maybe he did. In related news, he's been gone awhile....

Still, Kop's long earnest case against me makes me think he's probably town. I think scum would be savvier, frankly. In any event, I've already got too many scummy people on my wagon, and I doubt more than one or two would jump on at the same time.

[texcat]

Eh, I think Kop just didn't pick up on the sarcasm here. Hard to believe he took my comment earnestly (as a guide?) but maybe he did. In related news, he's been gone awhile....

Still, Kop's long earnest case against me makes me think he's probably town. I think scum would be savvier, frankly. In any event, I've already got too many scummy people on my wagon, and I doubt more than one or two would jump on at the same time.

I agree that he didn't pick up on the sarcasm. I disagree that his case was earnest. I think his long case on you was typical of what scum would do. Not really scum hunting, but wanting to appear so. He came back in, saw who the bandwagon was building on, quickly iso'd you and made a case on the first scummy thing he saw, not stopping to see the sarcasm.

[Zar]

acryon is being prodded

[Lucky2u]

I'm a bit weighed down here, trying to catch up sorry guys.

[shaddowez]

Kop

- If AI and Lowell are both scum reads, why join the smaller wagon of Lowell?

BBT

- Outside of the lists and disagreeing on how things works, what are you seeing that's scummy about Yos that it's worth having your vote parked there?

Yos

- Basically the same question. There does seem to be some dancing around by BBT, but is it enough to have your vote parked there?

I like how Lowell came in and completely ignored everything directed at him, again. [/sarcasm]

[shaddowez]

@MOD

- I'll be V/LA until Monday, Jan 4th for New Years weekend. I'll try to post some, but can't guarantee I'll be able to.

[Yosarian2]

Yos

- Basically the same question. There does seem to be some dancing around by BBT, but is it enough to have your vote parked there?

Why is everyone trying so hard to get me to unvote BBT? First rofl, then AI, now you.


I think BBT is probably scum. I think, based on his play so far this game, that we should lynch him today. So I am voting him


If someone wants to give me a real readon they're townreading BBT I'll listen, but right now i don't see him as town.

[Kop]

Kop

- If AI and Lowell are both scum reads, why join the smaller wagon of Lowell?

BBT

- Outside of the lists and disagreeing on how things works, what are you seeing that's scummy about Yos that it's worth having your vote parked there?

Yos

- Basically the same question. There does seem to be some dancing around by BBT, but is it enough to have your vote parked there?

I like how Lowell came in and completely ignored everything directed at him, again. [/sarcasm]

I'd have hoped that Lowell getting more votes, it would bring him out and to show why he shouldn't be scum read, ahead of AI and Lucky.

[Yosarian2]

I mean, seriously, shaddows, this is the time line here.

I vote BBT in 354, after explaining in quite a bit of detail why I think he's the scummiest player in the game.

He spent the next few pages just spamming the thread with shitposts, flatly refusing to actually answer any of my points or respond to anything I said, while trying to bully people into joining my wagon using absolutly no logic or arguments. He wasn't even pretending to scumhunt anymore, just purely trying to push a mislynch. Every single post he made on those pages was 100% anti-town, there wasn't even a glimmer of any pro-town activity or thought there at any point.

Then, he lurked for a few days, with nothing more then a naked prod dodge.

And you ask why I'm still voting for him? What, exactally, in that period, do you think was going to change my mind about him?

"Why are you still voting for him Yos" isn't even a question. The question is, why aren't you voting for him, shaddowez? Is there ANYTHING he's done that looks town to you?

[Kmd4390]

Good news. No more "n"s where spaces should be and I can bold again. With no knowledge of technology but help from an unlikely source, I fixed my own phone and can play mafia for real again. Catching up...

 i said the scummy stuff you were spewing fence sitting about them made me want to town read both of them

Bad logic. This only works after someone flips scum. Because I know myself to be town, I know you have baseless reads on two players if this is legitimately your read. I don't think it is though. I think you're just making a point. And I hope that's the case because if not, yikes.

you're trying to get me to say something you can attack. "honestly."

*shrug*. I'm actually leaning towards you being town right now.

I don't think BBT's total focus on Yos is pro-town. Yos, at least, is commenting on others.

^This felt weird to me because BBT talked about other people a lot, but it's an accurate statement if you only look at his posts from Sunday. Tex, what do you think of BBT's full ISO?

All of the scum? Does this mean you are town reading the rest of us?

I don't like this. Feels too "oh, you're town reading me? Right? I hope so."

I simply can't imagine a scum asking that. (Although I haven't got the slightest idea what "proxy a vote" means.)

How can you come to the conclusion that scum wouldn't ask that without knowing what it means?

Kop, similar question as the one to Anen. How could you conclude that town or scum could proxy a vote without knowing what it meant?

[Kop]

I assumed that the vote he was intending to make was either to put it there and leave it, or give it to the moderator to insert into the vote count.

I didn't know that proxy a vote was to be given to another player to put it in for him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This Yos v. BBT is a fucking disgraceful distraction. It's a belated, neatly wrapped Christmas present for scum. Both are fucking town and tunnelling like crazy. Work together. Maybe things will happen and the rest of the townsfolks will revisit their town read on both of you. You're both good players. Don't let your confirmation bias rule how you play this day. You're ruining this for everyone.

[Albert B. Rampage]

AlwaysInnocent (4): Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

I'm pretty fucking sure there are two scum voting for AI right now.

[Aneninen]

I will give details later tonight. I don't have much time now.
Texcat seems town to me.
If I am wrong about Lowell, then Kop could be scum. I don't think they are

both

scum.

I'm still waiting.
I agree with the Texcat-read.
Have you considered what if Kop is scum and Lowell is not?

What's not to like? Let's talk.

Eg.

If you don't want to be lynched, the best way is to prove your worth, to show why you shouldn't be lynched. And if someone is put under pressure by questions, deliberately ignoring them, is going to get you lynched. It might just be me that thinks that, but I think keeping quiet, isn't the key to avoid being lynched.

Is pigeon poop. Your case in the same post is long but contains little information.
I've already mentioned the first part of your 470. As for its second part, it looks like you leave the possibility open for jumping on Yos if it's needed.

In some mafia rulesets, you can proxy your vote, which means you give another person the right to make your vote for you. Used to be a commonly allowed practice, although only used rarely, especially when someone was on v/la and a deadline was approaching.
No special reason a scum wouldn't do that, if it's allowed. Can be a way to buddy someone, for example.

Oh. I thought it was a kind of "technical thing".
I think this rule is terrible, by the way.
In RL games I've seen similar activities as scum, eg. once I was having a shower during a Day phase and I got someone to vote instead of me.
So, maybe it's a null then. I need to think about it.

Kop

- If AI and Lowell are both scum reads, why join the smaller wagon of Lowell?

That's a good question. And he posted a lot about Lowell and hasn't posted about AJ for days...

Why is everyone trying so hard to get me to unvote BBT? First rofl, then AI, now you.
I think BBT is probably scum. I think, based on his play so far this game, that we should lynch him today. So I am voting him
If someone wants to give me a real readon they're townreading BBT I'll listen, but right now i don't see him as town.

I don't think that lynch would happen Today. (And it's not only because of my townread, which I've already explained .)
What are your other reads?

I'd have hoped that Lowell getting more votes, it would bring him out and to show why he shouldn't be scum read, ahead of AI and Lucky.

???
Gut says this is fake, but I can't put my finger on anything in it.

How can you come to the conclusion that scum wouldn't ask that without knowing what it means?

See above. I thought it might be something entirely different.

This Yos v. BBT is a fucking disgraceful distraction. It's a belated, neatly wrapped Christmas present for scum. Both are fucking town and tunnelling like crazy. Work together. Maybe things will happen and the rest of the townsfolks will revisit their town read on both of you. You're both good players. Don't let your confirmation bias rule how you play this day. You're ruining this for everyone.

There are enough things in this game happening, why don't you focus on those?

AlwaysInnocent (4): Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

I'm pretty fucking sure there are two scum voting for AI right now.

In your 248 your scumpool was Lucky and Lowell. Has it changed?

[Kop]

What's not to like? Let's talk.

Eg.

If you don't want to be lynched, the best way is to prove your worth, to show why you shouldn't be lynched. And if someone is put under pressure by questions, deliberately ignoring them, is going to get you lynched. It might just be me that thinks that, but I think keeping quiet, isn't the key to avoid being lynched.

Is pigeon poop. Your case in the same post is long but contains little information.
I've already mentioned the first part of your 470. As for its second part, it looks like you leave the possibility open for jumping on Yos if it's needed.

Who says I'm going to vote for Yos? I said I was going to go over the whole back and forth again, because when I first read it as it was happening, It felt town vs town. I would struggle to find who would possibly be scum in that whole back and forth.

How is keeping quiet gets you lynched, pigeon poop?

If I Ignore your whole post, and not bother responding to it, is going to end up you either chasing me or scum reading me for it, and then end up wanting to drive a wagon onto me because your scum reading me for ignoring you.

I'd have hoped that Lowell getting more votes, it would bring him out and to show why he shouldn't be scum read, ahead of AI and Lucky.

???
Gut says this is fake, but I can't put my finger on anything in it.

What's fake about it?

[Zar]

Day 1, Votecount 11, Ammended

AlwaysInnocent (5): Kmd4390, Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

Lowell (3): shaddowez, AlwaysInnocent, Kop
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Yosarian2
Kop (1): texcat
Lucky2u (1): Albert B. Rampage
Yosarian2 (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (1):

acryon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Saturday January 9, 2016 11:30 AM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-09 11:30:00)

Spoiler: Incorrect VC

Day 1, Votecount 11

AlwaysInnocent (4): Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

Lowell (3): shaddowez, AlwaysInnocent, Kop
acryon (1): Kmd4390
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Yosarian2
Kop (1): texcat
Lucky2u (1): Albert B. Rampage
Yosarian2 (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (1):

acryon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Saturday January 9, 2016 11:30 AM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-09 11:30:00)

Mod is V/LA until Saturday

Albert B. Rampage is V/LA until Friday

acryon is V/LA until Monday

shaddowez is V/LA until Monday

~.Vote count fixed ~~~. Zar

[Zar]

Since New Year's Eve and Day are coming up, I will be lax on activity until January 2nd. Happy New Year everyone!