Micro 1068 | Normal Designer Mafia | Postgame

[Enchant]

Yes, this is incredible dumb to be SvS

[Aureal]

Do you really think I'm supposed to be no more suspicious of you and your suggestion without explanation than I was of Drew? Particularly given how its form shifted, and you're being inconsistent about what sort of picks you had?

Explain this

You didn't give any reasoning why you think sharing info will help town, you just gave your opinion. What scenarios do you envision possibly coming about because of shared info?

You first suggested sharing"PR" picks, implying town roles. After other people started talking about sharing Mafia instead you seem to be taking what you can get there. And of course you went from not really having Mafia picks to having some that could be Mafia.

[bugspray]

Yes, this is incredible dumb to be SvS

sus

[Enchant]

Do you really think I'm supposed to be no more suspicious of you and your suggestion without explanation than I was of Drew? Particularly given how its form shifted, and you're being inconsistent about what sort of picks you had?

Explain this

You didn't give any reasoning why you think sharing info will help town, you just gave your opinion. What scenarios do you envision possibly coming about because of shared info?

You first suggested sharing"PR" picks, implying town roles.

No, it's something you put in my mouth to make your mudthrowing better. When i said to share PR picks, i meant PR picks.
PR = Power Role
Mafia can have power roles.


So anyway, setup knowledge is universal. After people start dropping, they obviously can't share it, so why we don't now.

[Doctor Drew]

Do you really think I'm supposed to be no more suspicious of you and your suggestion without explanation than I was of Drew? Particularly given how its form shifted, and you're being inconsistent about what sort of picks you had?

Explain this

You didn't give any reasoning why you think sharing info will help town, you just gave your opinion. What scenarios do you envision possibly coming about because of shared info?

You first suggested sharing"PR" picks, implying town roles.

No, it's something you put in my mouth to make your mudthrowing better. When i said to share PR picks, i meant PR picks.
PR = Power Role
Mafia can have power roles.


So anyway, setup knowledge is universal. After people start dropping, they obviously can't share it, so why we don't now.

That is an incredibly week counter argument. I will go out on a limb and say that the picks people sent in for town were PR(maybe someone picked a vanilla town).

And the backtracking on top of that.

[Enchant]

Vanilla Town is not PR.

[Doctor Drew]

Vanilla Town is not PR.

Did you read my post?

[Enchant]

Vanilla Town is not PR.

Did you read my post?

Yes, like you did read mine.

[Doctor Drew]

You want to share our PR picks, which would basically out all town PRs. I am genuinely confused but what you are saying, more likely than not no one chose VT.

So again, why is it a good idea to expose the town like this?

[Doctor Drew]

I went and skimmed your ISO to make sure I didn't miss something.

But let me ask you a question, do you believe there are VT in here, it is every time role a RP? In your opinion.

[biancospino]

@Drew, the question is not for me, but this game is Normal. By Normal guidelines, there must exist at least one VT.

Now, about revealing picks, here's the thing, it's true that Mafia can have PRs, but crucially they know which PRs the Mafia has (and presumably Townies are unlikely to lie, so the Mafia would mostly get truthful information, and can just lie in response). So Mafia can get a much better use of the information. Most importantly, I'd rather the Mafia not know which investigatives we might have, lest they could play around the menace or in any case know what to expect.

What I do see as possibly having merit is revealing picks that are

truly

Mafia only, i.e. Unstoppables / Traitors / Goons. After all, those we can be certain that are not Town, and if any of those picks is actually in the game Mafia already knows; and we could possibly benefit from knowing to expect a possible Ninja Mafioso or something.

Also, @Enchant, yes/no, do you believe it would benefit town if everyone outed

all

their PR picks?

[Enchant]

You want to share our PR picks, which would basically out all town PRs. I am genuinely confused but what you are saying, more likely than not no one chose VT.

So again, why is it a good idea to expose the town like this?

While it gives idea what roles we could have, it gives it not only for mafia. Just in case, i liked idea with outing only scummy roles more.

I went and skimmed your ISO to make sure I didn't miss something.

But let me ask you a question, do you believe there are VT in here, it is every time role a RP? In your opinion.

Eh. Majority are VTs, some like 1-3 are town PRs.

[Doctor Drew]

Ah thank you for that Bianco, didn't take into account that a normal game has to have a VT.

Also, I will say I chose a Traitor as one of my pics(selfishly because I was hoping to be the traitor lol)

[Enchant]

Traitor suck

[Enchant]

@Drew, the question is not for me, but this game is Normal. By Normal guidelines, there must exist at least one VT.

Now, about revealing picks, here's the thing, it's true that Mafia can have PRs, but crucially they know which PRs the Mafia has (and presumably Townies are unlikely to lie, so the Mafia would mostly get truthful information, and can just lie in response). So Mafia can get a much better use of the information. Most importantly, I'd rather the Mafia not know which investigatives we might have, lest they could play around the menace or in any case know what to expect.

What I do see as possibly having merit is revealing picks that are

truly

Mafia only, i.e. Unstoppables / Traitors / Goons. After all, those we can be certain that are not Town, and if any of those picks is actually in the game Mafia already knows; and we could possibly benefit from knowing to expect a possible Ninja Mafioso or something.

Also, @Enchant, yes/no, do you believe it would benefit town if everyone outed

all

their PR picks?

I think yes. Atleast i don't see harm in it.

[biancospino]

Ok, but if that's the case, I don't get why then you specifically want to reveal PR picks as opposed to just every picks. Surely if we were to do this and someone e.g. revealed only two things, then the other one is either VT or Goon and I don't see why it would be in any way beneficial to not distinguish.

And I do see the harm. Say someone picked e.g. a simple Follower and scum has a Goon, now scum know they shouldn't send the Goon to do the kill. Or maybe someone picked a disloyal FV and now Mafia knows to never declare fruit, just in case. I'm sure it's not hard to come out with countless examples. And in general I don't see why we should broadcast to the mafia what kind of roles may exist, I don't see the advantage for town and it removes the surprise effect of pretty much anything.

[Enchant]

Ok, but if that's the case, I don't get why then you specifically want to reveal PR picks as opposed to just every picks. Surely if we were to do this and someone e.g. revealed only two things, then the other one is either VT or Goon and I don't see why it would be in any way beneficial to not distinguish.

And I do see the harm. Say someone picked e.g. a simple Follower and scum has a Goon, now scum know they shouldn't send the Goon to do the kill. Or maybe someone picked a disloyal FV and now Mafia knows to never declare fruit, just in case. I'm sure it's not hard to come out with countless examples. And in general I don't see why we should broadcast to the mafia what kind of roles may exist, I don't see the advantage for town and it removes the surprise effect of pretty much anything.

Erm.

We applied picks of PRs. Out of all these picks, RH made setup. This setup was REVIEWED for balance.


I see point in your words btw. As i said before, i liked idea of only revealing mafia picks first.

[biancospino]

We applied picks of PRs. Out of all these picks, RH made setup. This setup was REVIEWED for balance.

I mean, that's false, we applied for

roles

, not necessarily PRs. VT is a role.

Description: Players pick either a maximum of three Normal roles or Normal roles with modifiers that they want in the setup but the prescence of such roles will not be guaranteed. Preferably, the picks are submitted during signups so the setup can be reviewed after it.

Anyway, then why did you out your JOAT(Neighborizers) then? It's not a scummy role (though in fairness I don't think any harm was done with revealing that specific pick, but still)

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: furtive caught scum

Go on then

Back yourself

The light-hearted defence here heavily contrasts the more apparently serious previous posts. 8 14 Are all serious responses to interactions which merit them. We do see a few more light hearted posts by furtive such as 12 and 10 but they are light hearted in response to light hearted things. The light hearted response to my serious accusation of caught scum is a notable change in emotional tempo.

The seriousness I mean in 8 is the matter of fact analysis of the lack of third parties and amount of scum in the setup which is something that should be obvious anyway. It makes for good busywork to appear you are helping town while providing nothing of substantial value.

Inconsistent tone then

Yeah I was mostly memeing but I wanted to inform people that there aren't 3p if they didn't know that

[furtiveglance]

I don't see what issue people have with revealing Mafia roles they picked but not Town roles they picked. Seems logical to me

[biancospino]

Yes, as long as Mafia actually mean Mafia only (I don't have any btw). Town can well have scummy roles.

[furtiveglance]

What's a scummy town role? How is that relevant to revealing people's mafia picks?

[Enchant]

We applied picks of PRs. Out of all these picks, RH made setup. This setup was REVIEWED for balance.

I mean, that's false, we applied for

roles

, not necessarily PRs. VT is a role.

Description: Players pick either a maximum of three Normal roles or Normal roles with modifiers that they want in the setup but the prescence of such roles will not be guaranteed. Preferably, the picks are submitted during signups so the setup can be reviewed after it.

Anyway, then why did you out your JOAT(Neighborizers) then? It's not a scummy role (though in fairness I don't think any harm was done with revealing that specific pick, but still)

VT is a not Role, VT is "Vanilla Town Alignment". For example, Serial Killer and Mafia Goon are ALSO not Roles.

[furtiveglance]

reads

Doctor Drew, Enchant

Aureal, biancospino, bugspray

Hellhound has one post and the other two have none

[biancospino]

VT is a not Role, VT is "Vanilla Town Alignment". For example, Serial Killer and Mafia Goon are ALSO not Roles.

I'm pretty sure they are, though it can't hurt to get confirmation I suppose.

@mod, would "Vanilla Townie" or "Goon" have been valid picks during signup?

In any case, I also do believe that you don't believe they are, so you did satisfy the doubt I had.