Open 218: Two-fold C9 - Game Over

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XScorpion (1) Chronopie
inHimshallibe (1) Elscouta
Chronopie (3) ODDin, Mr.Sandman, Mr. Chaos
ConfidAnon (1) Chevre
Beefster (1) Scott Brosius
Elscouta (1) XScorpion
Scott Brosius (2) easjo682, ConfidAnon
(No vote) Beefster, inHimshallibe
12 alive; 7 votes lynch.

Hi guys!

I'll read and post some stuff.

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First of all, I'm not taking the setup into account at this point, as it is Day 1 and we should concerned with finding scum.

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I see a need to change my vote,

vote: inhim
because he's been on this site the longest out of anyone else playing the game (I just lost the game) and is therefore is automatically more scummy, that and he came up with a reason to switch his vote in RVS which as we all know is the single most scummy thing ever

This isn't very good posting. First of all, seeing how I trust Korejora assigned roles randomly, there is no connection between longevity on site and role. Second, who are you to decide when RVS starts and ends? Third, you seem to be hypocritical in the fact that you are changing your vote during this apparent RVS.

Good. I'm happy to know you are town. Unvote

easjo's responses definitely did not make him town. Comically, he talked about voices in his head, which isn't really a town thing to do, and seriously, I see no correlation between his responses and normal town behavior.

I did not jump on ODDin because he placed a "serious vote." I voted ODDin because he claimed his vote was better than a random vote. I would have been OK with "more than a random vote" or "finally, something besides a random vote" but "better"? No, that's dishonest.

On a statistical level, I see inHim's point here. 1 out of every 3 players is scum. Therefore, one would have to be more than 33 percent sure to make a serious vote "better" than a random vote. However, players rarely delve this deeply into vote statistics, and I'm doubting that inHimshallibe would have really not voted ODDin had he stated it differently.

You're trying too hard. eas' actions feel to me like he's trying to joke around. Don't really see a deep scum motive behind them.

On the first sentence, Xscorpion had a point about easjo's contradition. On the second and third sentences, joking around after we have serious stuff to discuss isn't a town motive.

As far as I'm concerned, RVS ended on page 2.
I find RQS is only useful when scum are sloppy, i.e. a scum says something later in the game that contradicts one of their RQS answers.

You say this; however, you did answer the questions. You are contradicting yourself.

Misquoting is also a scumtell.

I'm not sure I see the misquote here. When I first read your post, I thought easjo had voted again and that's why he said that. Yet when I go back I see he did not. Could you please explain?

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Not as much as I thought I would say, but as it's been iterated multiple times in the thread, this game is lacking. I'm not sure I could pick out four scum, but I'm going to start with a

vote: easjo862

.

Other than easjo, I have slight scum feelings about:
Elscouta
Mr. Chaos
Mr. Sandman

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Beefster: I was seeking a more fruitful analysis. Where are ISOs 1-7 and 10+? Even if they have little content, they were still part of Elscouta's play, so they must mean something.

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Posts 220-224 between Karma and XScorpion feel like buddying to me. Especially how XScorpion responds to Karma's reread. He's just way too friendly. I also agree with the Beefster/inHim thing ODDin pointed out. I'm going to need to reread all four of those and see if I spot anything else.

Unvote

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Before my posts, a note: These next two posts were actually one post, but since I didn't want to discourage players from reading them, I split it up into two.

- - -

Beefster:

Keep in mind that we have 4 scum in this game. Less people to trust, etc. Not only that, but you can't really look for affiliations because of the 2 factions.

This doesn't really make sense. For one, no one can really be trusted in this game. For two, we can still look for affiliations because there are pairs.

Y'know what? My case was weak. But relatively, for the current moment, it's average. There isn't much info to go by yet. Nothing really has come out inHim. Unvote I still feel he's hiding something, but I'm at loss to any links. In fact, I find it strange that anyone could possibly decide to follow me in my stupid argument.

This is quite the strange post. I don't get why he unvoted if his case on inHim, however weak as it was, was still his best case.

-Sandman for following suit with me yet continuing to vote on inHim riding my weak arguments.

I'm not sure how to explain this, but this post doesn't feel right. After Beefster discredits his case, but still says it's scummy, he attacks Sandman for continuing to vote inHim. It seems awkward, and I think there is a term for this type of tactic.

unvote

that is all.

This is very awkward. I believe at this point Beefster was beginning to gain suspicion, and as this is the last thing he has posted, it seems he is doing what he attacked inHim for - - receeding into the background.

Conclusion: Beefster was much scummier than I had previously thought.

- - -

inHimshallibe

Some of the assumptions Beefster is making seem very innocent/genuine. Also, the way he thought about his argument, and even rescinded some of it, seems town. I think Elscouta is town for trying to get people to focus (even if it was on me) and that XScorpion is actually town because of the way he was attacking easjo when no one else saw fit to do so. He kept an attack even after he was chided, I believe, and that's definitely townlike.

I didn't think too badly of the initial post where inHim credits Beefster as town, as I figured it was on the other suspicions in Beefster's post and not him. But then, in the above post, he finds people town who have attacked him (Beefster and Elscouta) which is just really kind of odd.

Conclusion: I would really like to see some completed games, as his behavior has been consistent throughout the game and I think it probably matches his meta.

- - -

Elscouta/Karma

Good. I'm happy to know you are town. Unvote

I've already pointed out this odd turnaround.

Conclusion: the reread wasn't as supplementary as I thought, but I read more strong buddying between Karma and XScorpion. There was a very tiny suspicion-bus from Elscouta to XScorpion, but thats about it.

- - -

XScorpion:

I've already mentioned the contradiction of the random questions. It occurs in ISOpost 7 (question answers) and ISOpost 8 (criticism of same questions).

Of the four, if I had to guess at one being scum, I would say Elscouta. I don't like his sudden unvote of easjo, his coaching of Beefster, and his relentless assault on Inhim.
unvote
Vote: Elscouta

Your unvote on easjo was a bit sudden. To be more specific, you never really explained why you unvoted him. But the vote on Elscouta doesn't seem like much of a bussy vote to me.

Conclusion: I'm a bit uneasy about XScorpion, but he has been one of the top contributors.

- - -

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Part 2 of la posta grande.

- - -

And now...for a bonus installment!

Mr. Chaos

What is this I don't even

Unfinished sentences really bug me. Could you finish it for me, Mr. Chaos?

Conclusion: After reading the contradiction Karma pointed out, I don't think it's really a contradiction at all. And looking at Karma's case again:

First of all, Karma's case (Post 222) has three points, which makes it seem like Mr. Chaos hasn't posted or contributed that often, which I disagree with. The first point is to me invalid; everyone is doomed to post "invalid fluff" at one point or another. And also, I didn't know what was "total defeatism" due to Karma's quoting, so I went and looked at the post:

I'm not debating whether or not this was planned or not, considering we're talking about easjo.

how does this effect anything, what you mean when you say considering its me?

Considering the style of VI your playing as. It deviates from the normal VI I would expect to appear, and sort of rocks in this gray area between VI and Normal play.

Hey Mr. Chaos, who is scum?

you

In all seriousness, I dislike Elscouta's and Chrono's play. I'm really more likely to vote for them than some others. I won't lie when I say I feel like my reads this game are totally off balanced, and I really dislike my play this game as well.

I dislike the inHim wagon, but I'm not entirely opposed to it. From what I've seen of his play, its not too far off, but it strikes me a little bit odd. Also this post:

OK, an actual attempt at scumhunting will come today. Lynch me otherwise.

Is pretty much total defeatism and I dislike it. But it also gives me a small town vibe as well, which doesn't sit well with me either.

I really think though, that Crono needs to get in this game more. I would really like to hear more from him, and I feel the only way may be to:

Vote: Chrono

That is the entire post, and in red is what Karma quoted. Karma pinpointed one part of a much larger post as "fluff."

The next point of Karma's case comes from the same post, actually, and it is just another tidbit.

Finally, the "contradiction." While it is awkward that Mr. Chaos would post those two things back to back, it is not necessarily contradictory. Contribution and townieness don't have to be linked.

All in all, I find Karma's case on Mr. Chaos is poor, and XScorpion's follow-up looks like extreme buddying now.

Vote: Karma

, with XScorpion as most likely partner. I would also like to acknowledge that Beefster is my second suspect, with inHim as his most likely partner.

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easjo's contradiction was a true contradiction. I have agreed with that.

While yours is not a textbook contradiction, it is the best word I can come up with. What I'm trying to ask/say is that if you found the RQS useless, why did you answer the questions? This is going on in another (ongoing) game, though I must confess it is not exactly the same as yours, it is similar.

Finally, the Chaos contradiction. In the first of the two posts, Mr. Chaos had quoted one of Chronopie's posts and questioned it, just that post. The next post, Mr. Chaos found Chronopie's posts

as a whole

. I see that this situation is sketchy, so I'd like to pose the following question to Mr. Chaos: What about Chronopie has made him town?

And thanks for the meme-clarification. Although the way I handled it is one for the books

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1. Chaos votes Chrono because he thinks he's not participating enough
2. Chrono continues to not participate very much
3. Chaos suddenly gets a "decent townie feel" from Chrono

You call this "not necessarily contradictory." Explain yourself, cause it looks pretty fucking contradictory from my perspective.

OK. There are two separate entities here. Think of them as 1 to 10 scales. They are:

Not Participating-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-Actively Participating
and
Scum-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-Town

For your contradiction to hold true, there would only be one scale:

Not Participating-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-Town

Which is obviously not the case.

[quote="Karma"Also, why question Chaos about the contradiction when you defended him about it two posts earlier? Subtle distancing?[/quote]

For clarification, obviously. If he couldn't come up with a decent answer, then I would've been proven wrong.

If Beefster somehow was able to use my RQS answers to catch scum, despite my doubts, who am I to deny him the opportunity?

I see. I guess it only is a scumtell if you say "the questions are completely useless to everyone" and answer them anyway. Therefore, my point on you was invalid.

Because, unlike you, I am in no rush to end the day. Is there some reason why you are in such a hurry to get a lynch?

So are you saying once you are satisfied with the day's activity and findings, you'll switch your vote to "obvscum" Beefster? If so, then what is the point of the Mr. chaos vote?

Beefster: Where was that type of PBPA on Elscouta?

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Is that a superbly pro-town player to you? Are those posts good enough reason to shamelessly wagon on Beefster?

I never said I found Chronopie town. However, Mr. Chaos did, and all I'm trying to say is that I don't believe the contradiction point of your case is true. I also see you are being careful to give me all the information needed now, rather than snippets of posts.

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Also:

Beefster: Where was that type of PBPA on Elscouta?

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No. I thought so too, but it's actually just Chrono confirming his vote.