The StarCraft II thread

[DeathRowKitty]

Is anyone on MS awful at Starcraft II

*waves*

[DeathRowKitty]

Can someone look at this replay and tell me how badly I fucked up?

http://www.mediafire.com/?d6ple17adjntwyr

- No scouting (first recon of a potential enemy base at the 12 minute mark with your main army)
- Nowhere near enough SCV's (18 at the 10 minute mark, you should be saturated on 1 base and getting near to it on a second by 10 minutes)
- Supply blocked a few times (27 supply, 59 supply)
- Never expanded (If you're one basing, your main attacking thrust shouldn't be at 15 minutes)

Scout with an early SCV at the very least. Make SCV's constantly. Look to expand at around the 7 minute mark and take a third at 15 minutes (just general guidelines, you can go slower or faster). Don't get supply blocked.

If you only take one piece of advice out of all of it, make more SCV's. Just constantly make them. Just that alone and you'll improve a lot.

Two things to add to this:
1) It's often a good idea to scan before you attack. It's a bit of a tip off that you're about to attack, but for the extra few seconds, you're often better off knowing what you're going against. At the very least, scanning after the first set of baneling bombs went off could have helped.
2) If you're going to go with few marines, you should probably get either vikings or turrets. Unless you've scouted and seen your opponent has no air units (easier to do against zerg, since the spire has to be on creep), you should really have some sort of anti-air. Not having anti-air leads to this (not exactly my best game...I'd prefer it it wasn't analyzed >.> (I'm the zerg player in that game)).

[DeathRowKitty]

I'll /in for this.

Also:

Also, we need a prize for the loser. Preferably a really, really terrible prize.

Fixed.

[DeathRowKitty]

You might be overqualified.

[DeathRowKitty]

Then it wouldn't be worst of the worst, would it?

And you only need ID and character code to add someone. So

my username
is kiwithefruit and code is 540

was all we needed


I'm fine with ABR joining.

[DeathRowKitty]

I use 2 hotkeys: "S" for SCVS and "A" to attack and to make marines. Everything else I click.

Remind me to go banelings against you.

[DeathRowKitty]

Not sure if there's a list for that anywhere, but Claus covered a lot of it. If the player takes both gases early, he's planning on teching up quickly (in the case of Terran, that probably means banshees, as Claus said; for zerg...mutas, maybe? for protoss, umm...I don't know...). If you see no gas from Terran or Protoss, expect a rush. From Terran, marines. From Protoss, zealots. In the case of a zealot rush, if you leave your scv in his base long enough, you'll likely see an early second gateway and your opponent may have fewer probes than you'd expect (even if your scv gets killed before you see a second gateway, low probe count and no gas indicates a zealot rush). Against Zerg, if his pool is complete or almost complete when you get there (depending on when you sent your scout), finish your wall and get marines asap. If all you see in Protoss's bases is a pylon and a forge, you're likely being cannon rushed. If you see nothing in his base, it's either a proxy forge for cannon rush or, (more likely), a proxy zealot rush. I can't think of anything off the top of my head you would see in a Terran base that early that would tip me off, but you play Terran, so if you see your opponent with something that seems strange for that point in the game, your opponent is likely doing something unorthodox.

As for how to counter...

If you see your opponent is rushing, your counter is to build a lot of units. It doesn't even really matter what the rush is. Trying to tech up to/mass produce some unit to counter a specific rush gives your opponent wastes time you could be getting units. Just pumping out marines should work fine. Remember: your opponent will lose time traveling to your base. That gives you time to get a few extra marines out. If you suspect your opponent is going for cloaked bancheese, either build turrets or make sure you have a couple of scans and enough marines (you'll probably want to save a scan or 2 regardless, since covering your entire base with turrets isn't exactly the best option). Killing off banshees with marines is an unpleasant task if your opponent has good micro (banshees outrange marines and can fly away from your base to escape), but it's certainly doable (and something you'll want to get used to, since cloaked banshees can hit before you would normally have other anti-air). Stim helps if you have it in time.

If you need to know how to counter units later in the game, it helps to know about the other races' units (knowing about other races' units is more important than memorizing a list of counters...not that memorizing a list of counters isn't useful). Knowing things like which units are armored, which are light, and which units do bonus damage against armored and light units should make figuring out a lot of counters simple. Other than that, experience is a decent guide. If you see that unit x always gets beaten by unit y when you play, chances are you shouldn't be making unit x against unit y. And if all else fails, do a google search for "starcraft 2 counters" or something.

[DeathRowKitty]

Should I even be ctrl grouping my armies?

Definitely.

My control groups will be a bit different since I play zerg, but I generally go with something along the lines of:

4: hatcheries
1: ground army
3: entire army
5: air units
6: other air units, if I want to have some air units separate (like brood lords or corruptors, if I plan on using the super-useful corruption).....or infestors if I have those, even though I always forget to use them
7: any other group of units I want to have separate (if I have mutas, corruptors, and brood lords, I sometimes use it...not sure I've really used it in any other circumstance)
2: some subsection of my ground army (usually banelings if I have them)
0: nydus network (which I never actually get)

Probably (and by probably, I mean definitely) not ideal, but it's what I'm used to. Before I have air units, I'm more likely to use both 1 and 2 for subsections of my ground army (or 2 and 3, depending on what I started with). Early in the game, I'll have my scouting drone on 2 and my first overlord on 3 for easier scouting. If I foresee myself using my queens to fight something off, I'll hotkey them. I usually hotkey them to 3, but if I already have that in use, I'll put them in 7...if 7 is already in use, I won't be needing to fight with queens anyway and wouldn't be putting them in a control group.

[DeathRowKitty]

Yeah, that would work.

[DeathRowKitty]

Ohhhhh.

Yeah, sorry, ignore me.

[DeathRowKitty]

Awwww, I would have watched if I'd expected you to play :/

[DeathRowKitty]

Will watch/be rooting for you. Good luck!

[DeathRowKitty]

OKAY, I WILL

[DeathRowKitty]

I was wondering how long I could get away with not posting my ID. No one ever asked and anyone I needed to play for the BASL had their ID listed, so I just added them instead.

My ID and/or number thingie is GhostFrog.104

[DeathRowKitty]

That is exactly the reason <3

[DeathRowKitty]

Not working for me either, so it's probably down.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm currently trying to learn to play protoss. If it goes well enough, I'll probably try terran too so I can random (I don't actually expect it to go that well though...), but at the very least I want to be able to play protoss at a comparable level to that at which I play zerg. If anyone wants to practice against probably the equivalent of a low-mid bronze protoss, hit me up.

[DeathRowKitty]

Where do banshees fit into that?

[DeathRowKitty]

umadbro?

[DeathRowKitty]

Protoss use control groups?

[DeathRowKitty]

I just do a 7RR every time I have a protoss against me. I tech to lair at 32, expand at 34 and tech town hydra asap throwing down double evo and try to crush him with +1/+1.

My win ratio as zerg is only 49%, due to an abyssal 35% win in ZvP

Umm...I'm no expert, but have you considered trying something different if your current strategy only wins you 35% of your games?

[DeathRowKitty]

I hate you.

[DeathRowKitty]

It really depends. He's said before he's aiming to try and improve his mechanics, so winrate isn't everything right now.

I'm sure there's more than one build one could use to practice mechanics. Unless he's trying to practice that particular build order, but that would be silly if it only wins 35% of the time.

[DeathRowKitty]

I hate you.

<3

[DeathRowKitty]

The best counter to cheese in bronze is to scout it and respond appropriately. There's a reason whatever cheese that player is using hasn't gotten him out of bronze yet. It's because he doesn't execute well and it isn't that difficult to stop. If you're against protoss and you scout two early gates with no gas and possibly a low probe count (or if you see nothing in his base), throw down your pool (if you haven't already) and spam lings. If you see just a forge, send 4 drones to stop the cannon rush, and, worst case scenario, spawn a creep tumor with your queen's first 25 energy to stop the cannons from advancing, then tech to roaches. Etc. Intentionally going for a less economic build as a preemptive counter to cheese will lose you more games than it will win, especially when you can counter without it.

With or without having to produce a couple immortals (and you don't need many to tip a battle in your favor if all your opponent has is roaches), colossi come out well before 20 minutes. If you're hoping to set your opponent back enough to prevent him from teching to colossus, you need to attack sooner. Maybe just wait until you have some predetermined number of hydras (I don't know what that number would be) and attack again. Or focus on taking a third base and skip the fast teching to hydras.

It seems like you're really trying to make this one strategy work for whatever reason and it's just not working for you. If you want to improve your mechanics, I would suggest trying a more standard build that gets your second base down sooner. Having more resources gives you more flexibility in what you can make and hopefully it will get you used to expanding earlier. You can only stay on two bases so long as zerg before you start to fall behind. Unless you have some sort of semi-all-in timing attack planned out off two bases, you're going to need a third base sooner than your opponent so you can get extra resources and keep up with their production. And if one unit composition isn't working for you (roach-hydra, in this case), try something different. Roach-hydra only works until colossi or HT come out. If you stick with roach-hydra and aren't able to get enough of an advantage to break the protoss before he gets colossi or HT out, you're probably not going to win. So take a third base, take a fourth base, get some corruptors out, get some infestors out, and then try engaging the protoss army.

[DeathRowKitty]

I would think roaches require more micro to use properly than lings do...unless you're attacking a mineral line with a small group of lings, in which case you're probably getting far enough ahead you don't have to worry about being a bit late on a larvae inject.

[DeathRowKitty]

I think he meant his lings get trapped up his opponent's ramp...the solution to which is not to run several lings up a ramp guarded by a sentry.

[DeathRowKitty]

This is what happens when you run lings up a ramp guarded by sentries. It's from a little over a month ago. My opponent usually played protoss and I usually played zerg, so it's...uhh...kind of an awful game. For anyone that doesn't care to watch the replay, he tried to attack up my ramp with something like 72 zerglings vs a few zealots, a few stalkers, and a few sentries, caught me at the perfect time (just as I was moving out to try to expand with my aforementioned massive army for support) and still couldn't break through. Moral of the story: ZOMGOMZOMZGOMZGOMZGZ FORCE FIELD OP!1!1!!!!11!!

[DeathRowKitty]

Fancy bunkers and fancy reactors are sexy.

[DeathRowKitty]

Spoiler: New Maps

The following changes are being made to the ladder map pool when Season 3 begins on Tuesday, July 26:

1v1

Removed:
Scrap Station (2)
Slag Pits (4)
Delta Quadrant (4)
Metalopolis (4)

Carried over:
Xel’Naga Caverns (2)
Backwater Gulch (4)
Shakuras Plateau (4)
Tal'Darim Altar LE (4)
The Shattered Temple (4)
Typhon Peaks (4)

New:
Nerazim Crypt (4)
Searing Crater (4)
Antiga Shipyard (4)
Abyssal Caverns (4)



2v2

Removed:
Monlyth Ridge (4)
Gutterhulk (4)
Omega Sector (4)
Red Stone Gulch (4)

Carried over:
Discord IV (4)
High Orbit (4)
Khaydarin Depths (4)
Scorched Haven (4)
The Ruins of Tarsonis (4)
Tempest (8)

New:
Tyrador Keep (8)
The Boneyard (8)



3v3

Removed:
Quicksand (6)
Colony 426 (6)
Monsoon (6)
Typhon (6)

Carried over:
Arakan Citadel (6)
Cinder Fortress (6)
Dig Site (6)
Frontier (6)
The Bio Lab (6)
Ulaan Deeps (6)

New:
Green Acres (6)
Temple of the Preservers (6)



4v4

Removed:
High Ground (8)
Megaton (8)

Carried over:
District 10 (8)
Extinction (8)
Lava Flow (8)
Outpost (8)
Sand Canyon (8)
Toxic Slums (8)

New:
Fossil Quarry (8)
Deadlock Ridge (8)


FFA

Removed:
Metalopolis (4)
Slag Pits (4)

Carried over:
The Shattered Temple (4)
Quicksand (6)
Tectonic Rift (6)
Abyss (8)

New:
Abyssal Caverns (4)
Antiga Shipyard (4)
Nerazim Crypt (4)

I only actually know 1v1 maps, but the maps they removed freed up 2 of my vetoes (I think it freed up at least 2 of every zerg's vetoes...), which is good, since, from what I've heard, I'll need them for the new maps. Kind of strange seeing that Metalopolis was removed though. If they'd gotten rid of Backwater Gulch instead (which is a much less popular map), I'd have all my vetoes free again.

[DeathRowKitty]

Metalopolis, as stated, is likely the two reasons:
1. Close spawns are stupid like that
2. Cross spawns apparently favor Zerg way too much. I've just heard people say this, if someone can expand on why, I'd greatly appreciate.

Zerg are a lot faster than the other races, so they can send mutas/speedlings accross the map faster than you can catch them

Yeah, that was part of it. Mostly the speedling part. With the two equal-length paths between bases and the relatively slow Terran units, it was difficult for terran to move out against zerg because it left the natural open to speedling harass...and the speedlings could still get back in time to help defend the terran attack.

The other problem (I have no idea how true this is...I'm just parroting what I've read at this point) was that it was too easy to hold the non-high-yield expansions and zerg could get a gazillion bases (5).

---

I played my placement match and not surprisingly stayed in gold. I'm not vetoing any of the new maps until I've played more games on them, but from what I've seen in my first two games of the new season (both of which have been on new maps), I'll probably be vetoing at least one of them (whatever map the second game was on). On the bright side, it seems to make zvz's shorter, which is nice since I find zvz more exciting on hatch tech than I do on lair tech, but I can't foresee games against anything except z going very well on that map.

[DeathRowKitty]

Buck fanshees.

[DeathRowKitty]

New season started for ladder, complete with 4 new maps that are loved by everyone

that doesn't play protoss or zerg

.

[DeathRowKitty]

Wow...Boxer might have actually had a chance if he hadn't gotten hit with that one seeker missile at the end.

Probably not though. Even if it got into a possible draw situation, Rain had the option to attack, then move his vikings back to repair. Rinse and repeat.

[DeathRowKitty]

Edit: PROFESSIONAL hiding-command-centers-in-the-corner-of-the-map

Never heard of draws ?

Never heard of humor ?

[DeathRowKitty]

Back when I was playing on my shitty Macbook Pro, I was actually getting better. Then I built my new PC and I've been horrible ever since. I blame the larger keyboard (Mac keyboards are much smaller) making me have to reach further to hit the correct buttons. The shiny graphics also distract me now. And there's just something that has fucked with my timing/brain activity.

If the graphics are too shiny for you, try playing on low quality if you don't already. I switched to it once for whatever reason and I've never gone back, even though the game played fine for me on normal (I never tried it above normal). Things are easier to see on low quality. As for timing and keyboard issues, the only way to really fix those is by playing more. You only get used to timings by playing and it's not unusual to lose some sense of that if you don't play for a while.

If you see me on sc2 and wanna practice, shoot me a message.

I play as Iowa if anyone wants a go. I play as toss and am on every night just about, central time.

We need your character code to add you (you can find it by mousing over your picture in the top right).

---

I got promoted to platinum 1v1 last night. It was after beating a terran whose strategy seemed to be "make a lot of hellions, then follow it up with more units that can't hit air".

[DeathRowKitty]

Like this.

[DeathRowKitty]

Serious answer: tanks in siege mode. And split your marines if possible. You don't want 2 banelings getting through and killing off all of your marines. Mutalisks are good against tanks that don't have marine support.

[DeathRowKitty]

<3 OP 2v2 strats

[DeathRowKitty]

Soo....basically it's an opportunity to get destroyed in 4v4? I'd be up for that.

[DeathRowKitty]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=262907

- I don't care that I'm terrible.
- I don't care that I have work that night at 10 PM and would have to sacrifice sleep
- I don't care that I'd likely have to tether my phone to my computer for a usable internet connection.

WE NEED TO GET A TEAM TOGETHER.

THE TEAM:

1. AGar (T)
2. Gamma (P)
3. DRK (Z)
4. xRECKONERx (T)
5.* Kinetic (P)

So I thought long and hard about it and I think I have a good strat for us. I think we should all make workers and other units and destroy our opponents' stuff. If anyone has any objections to that or anything they would like to change about it, I'm open to suggestions.

[DeathRowKitty]

I lost track of where my second set of lings was >.<

[DeathRowKitty]

I am proud to have been a part of it.

[DeathRowKitty]

So apparently SCII's random number generator hates me and Ellibereth....

[DeathRowKitty]

Otolia, do you conduct all of your conversations with this ridiculous level of self-importance or do you only use it when talking to Kinetic? Just wondering.

[DeathRowKitty]

I just bought SC2 full edition.

Addd meeeeeeee (or tell us your name and character code >.>)

[DeathRowKitty]

We need your character code too. (Mouse over your portrait in the top right corner and it will tell you)

[DeathRowKitty]

proof that fapping is OP in sc2

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh my god boxer....

[DeathRowKitty]

Ghosts.

This. Also has the benefit of killing brood lords if they tech switch. If you just need to kill ultras, marauders are good too.

[DeathRowKitty]

Instead of saying : Hey those Millenium guys are not getting professional nearly as fast as they should (which is true to some extent and I value this slow and measured pace) and that's something they have to fix to gain more credibility, you are

throwing stones

being realistic and not letting national pride get in the way of your opinions like I am. The fact that you are not taking this situation personally and are instead being rational about it is disrespectful to Milennium.

Summarized?

[DeathRowKitty]

2) When you go to multi,

use a significant amount of your practice matches

play against the ai to try and get a feel for each race, then skip practice league.

FTFY

I also disagree with playing the campaign to get a feel for the UI/unit control/etc. All of that can be done by playing against the ai in an actual game scenario (and with units that are actually in the game and not only Terran units).

I wholeheartedly agree with point 3 though.