Micro 34: Bay Cruise Normal Mafia (Day 3- Game over)

[Zoroaster]

If RedCoyote dies today, then my projectmatt read is all but gone.

don't think you meant to say that

Kind of did, thanks.

[MichelSableheart]

this suggests that Demon Core is scum who simultaneously does and doesn't believe that a cop exists.

post 217's (wrong) logic is that two power roles are dead with no cop -> there is no cop -> there is no miller -> RC is lying scum

since this logic requires the assumption that there is no cop, it is difficult to see anyone using it to go fishing for cops

You are aware that miller -> cop and no cop -> no miller are equivalent? Someone who believes one would believe the other.

Following that reasoning, scum Demon Core paired with anyone but Red Coyote would "know" there was a cop since he would know RC to be speaking the truth about being miller. That doesn't stop him pretending to believe there is no cop in order to judge reactions.

The cophunting explanation for empire's kill would also work if Zoroaster is scum, though, so I am no longer vehemently opposed to that lynch. I still estimate that Zoroaster would be more likely to be careful then DC, though, and would therefore be less likely to kill empire as scum.

[iamausername]

I don't think you get it iamausername. I'm very sure in RedCoyote.

RedCoyote being scum just about points 100% to projectmatt. Therefore, I believe they are both scum.

However, in realization, if we lynched projectmatt and he flipped town, that would have no basis on what RedCoyote's alignment is. If RedCoyote dies today, then my projectmatt read is all but gone.

apparently things that are obvious to me are not obvious to other people, so allow me to elucidate:

zoroaster says redcoyote is scum. zoroaster says that being proved right about this will show that projectmatt is also scum (for unclear reasons that he refuses to explain).

zoroaster then says "If RedCoyote dies today, then my projectmatt read is all but gone". not "if RedCoyote flips town", but "if RedCoyote

dies

".

zoroaster is claiming that he expects RedCoyote to flip scum, but inadvertantly revealing that he actually expects RedCoyote to flip town. this is because he knows RedCoyote is town, but is pretending he doesn't, because he is scum.

[iamausername]

also, returning to an earlier train of thought:

Did you ever think that the claim changed the read? It's pretty risky for scum to claim a PR on D1 rather than stating what the PR was.

a) "his play improved" is a really weird way to say "i don't think scum would claim the way he did"
b) if you actually thought this, don't you think it might have been a good idea to maybe mention it yesterday, when rofl was being lynched? you think that a town power role is being lynched and you don't do anything to try and stop it?

[Zoroaster]

(for unclear reasons that he refuses to explain).

First off, you never asked for these reasons--this is the first time I even remotely have seen this.

However, I did explain this, thanks.

The first major point I'm going to make is that Red doesn't seem to get anywhere with his reads. Look at his ISO, hell the whole point of this post is so you don't have to, so do either.

The first scumread RedCoyote gets in the game is Verity. It's not a full-fledged scumread until:

Well, at this point, Verity has been genuinely ignoring this game. So, like my last post said, I see no better place for my vote right now.

Now I have to be honest, this point doesn't really have to do with the above quote--but we'll get to that.

With this notion of "ignoring", one should be able to assume that RedCoyote probably did the work and checked that Verity was posting right? So no one actually checked. Well here's the truth: Verity flaked the night that he posted last in this thread. He only has one more post on site history and that post is a minute after the post on this website.

To add things up as well, RedCoyote's post was on Monday--two days after Verity's post on Saturday, September 22. So RedCoyote's initial vote on Verity was pretty unjustifed. This vote stays on until Friday(the 28th?) which switches onto CDB, basically for not reading. So really, I find awful problems with Red's play since he had a justified scumread on Projectmatt but decided to keep his vote on Verity, someone who was just "ignoring" him.

But then, after the whole Verity debacle, it'd be pretty stupid if I just left the projectmatt read out in the blue.

Come on, matt. Every post prior to this one has been fluff (Verity vote notwithstanding, but that's why I'm making this argument to begin with... holding the thread up with posts like that).

Alright, so apparently RedCoyote is suspecting matt for fluff. Usually this wouldn't be bad. Just a reason to suspect him, probably just glaze him over and ask for examples(which he never did) Except it's page 3. Something's fishy here.

This is exactly the kind of overcautiousness that strikes me as scummy. Basically you're saying here that you want to keep your "potential" townread at L-1 (who knows, someone may lynch him!), while you think about moving your vote.

Great! Finally something radical. Something other than fishy. Something that RedCoyote is explaining about his scumreads.

So let's tally something right now:

At this moment, RedCoyote is suspecting Matt because:
A) Posting Fluff
B) He's voting someone that he believes is town and is leaving him at L-1

At this moment, RedCoyote is voting/suspecting me because:
A)Verity "ignoring" the thread(so basically this is false)
B)

He just seems scummy for different reasons now.

Which are....oh! He detailed it!

I might be reading too much into it, but, like Michel alluded to earlier, Zoro gives off this aura of being a bit too "try hard", so to speak. I hate to use that argument, because I do appreciate players that take the game seriously. And I think Zoro is taking the game seriously. I just see the things he consistently says as over-the-top and too safe. His choice of words, how he uses them, and how he's scumhunting all seem fake. That's as best as I can describe it.

Alright, so let's change up this list:

A)Verity "ignoring" the thread(so basically this is false)
B) Trying to hard, playing safe(which apparently Red Coyote can tell), and my scumhunting

All included with examples.

So, I'll let you fellas decide: Which is worst?

Someone who had actually had concrete evidence on, pointed it out and didn't act on it

or

Someone who he said he had evidence on, has yet to produce the evidence, demonstrates that he's using most of his gut on this one("That's as best as I can describe it") and acts on it.

I'm glad my hypothesis that you're just acting on your gut is being proven wrong by these magnificent posts.

"if RedCoyote dies".

Oh yeah, it's not like everyone uses the words dies/lynches in interplay. That

never

happens.

but inadvertantly revealing that he actually expects RedCoyote to flip town. this is because he knows RedCoyote is town, but is pretending he doesn't, because he is scum.

World's greatest detective here.

Can you actually try to make a case this time, then? It'd be nice.

Pre-Edit:

a) "his play improved" is a really weird way to say "i don't think scum would claim the way he did"

b) if you actually thought this, don't you think it might have been a good idea to maybe mention it yesterday, when rofl was being lynched? you think that a town power role is being lynched and you don't do anything to try and stop it?

I've addressed this twice and this just as bad as a point as the Republicans blaming Obama for the Embassy attacks, even though they took funding from the Embassies.

We were on a deadline. It was either lynch someone or lynch no one. I was hammer, mind you, I didn't start the vote.

[denisatp]

re-reading game now

[denisatp]

up to page 5 and holy walls of text

[iamausername]

zoroaster could you try actually reading posts before responding to them in future it would help a lot

thanks

[denisatp]

i find it highly unlikely i will actually be lynched today, full claiming is not the answer. let the scum drink the wifom tonight deciding if they'd rather kill me or keep trying to get me lynched.

michel's active attempts to divert attention away from cdb are so obvious i think it actually makes him less likely to be his scumpartner. that partner is, however, likely to be one of the people still pushing my wagon. in order of likelihood, matt --> username --> michel

did you guys seriously lynch him after this post

[denisatp]

okay i read up to the end of d1. i'm not reading those walls of texts
my reads
town: demoncore, project
scum: RC

[iamausername]

town: demoncore, project

you know one of those is you, right

[denisatp]

town: demoncore, project

you know one of those is you, right

well now i do ty 4 telling me. which 1?

[Demon Core]

Well, looks like I got replaced already. Sorry about that guys, been

cramming

thoroughly preparing for the GRE for the few days and have had a very, very limited time on here.

[gorckat]

Baldanders prodded.

[Zoroaster]

zoroaster could you try actually reading posts before responding to them in future it would help a lot

thanks

Did thanks.

In the future it'd be helpful if you pointed out stuff that was incorrect--but then you'd have to find yourself at fault which I know is pretty hard for you to realize--so I could try to respond to it in a more clearer way.

Also, it'd help if you didn't sound so crazy too.

[MichelSableheart]

@Demoncore: it was pmatt who got replaced, not you.

Also, as a non-native english speaker, I'm having trouble distinguishing people using sarcasm from people simply being stupid. Especially when they're trying to defend themselves against good accusations.

Vote: Zoroaster

[gorckat]

Vote Count

zoroaster (3)

: RedCoyote, iamausername, MichelSableheart

Demon Core

: Baldanders

RedCoyote

: zoroaster

Not Voting (2)

: Demon Core, projectmatt

With 7 alive, it is 4 to lynch.

Day Two ends Monday, October 15, 5:00 PM EST: (expired on 2012-10-15 17:00:00)

Working to determine if Demon Core understands he is still in the game or will be replaced.

[Zoroaster]

Especially when they're trying to defend themselves against good accusations.

So you're telling me that good accusations include over-opinionated arguments? Seriously?

[RedCoyote]

Lol, oh, wow.

You got a gift in deni, Zoro. You should be giving the Mod a high five for that one.

[RedCoyote]

Speaking of which,

Mod

, deni is missing from your last vote count.

[denisatp]

VOTE: zorasteractually zoro is also a scurmead

[gorckat]

Vote Count

zoroaster (4)

: RedCoyote, iamausername, MichelSableheart, denisatp

Demon Core

: Baldanders

RedCoyote

: zoroaster

Not Voting

: Demon Core

With 7 alive, it was 4 to lynch.

Drunken bickering continued throughout the day as the boat lifted and lowered as the tides shifted. The crabs swarming the beach would be further fed by the body of zoroaster as he was slung over the side of the ship.

zoroaster, Townie, was lynched Day 2.

Night Two ends Tuesday, October 16, 5:00 PM EST: (expired on 2012-10-16 17:00:00)

[gorckat]

The tide has pulled the stranded ship back into the bay!

Of course, with killers still on the loose, choosing someone to be responsible for starting the vessel and piloting it back to somewhere that looks like more than a bayfront property still needs to be sorted out.

iamausername's body floats a hundred or so feet behind the ship, sunrise shimmering in an oddly tranquil beam of reflective light over his body and up to the boat.

iamausername, Townie, was killed Night 2.

With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.

Day 3 ends Tuesday, October 23 at 5:00 PM EST: (expired on 2012-10-23 17:00:00)

[Demon Core]

Since we are in LYLO, I think we should massclaim.

Since I was a non-entity most of this game, I'll claim first if most people OK it.

Well, since I was so spectacularly wrong about roflcopter and zoro, I'll start from the beginning.

[Demon Core]

Now that we have flips, I think early game might give us more clues.

Just purely based on the Verity wagon, I have a very hard time beliveing there's not scum in [projectmatt/denisatp and RC]. I'm inclined to think it's RC. First off, yes, I am leery of the miller claim (scum can just make themselves cop immune for no damn reason). And at the bottom of page 2 (link: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4357818) he's reaffirming a vote on Verity for "ignoring" the game when it appears from his profile that he site flaked. ADDITIION: Yeah, after reading this post by projectmatt, I have a hard time believing he's scum.

That said, I also think there's probably one scum that's vocally against the quick wagon (Baldanders seems to be against it, Michel doesn't directly acknowledge it).

To be continued (I make multiple posts because I've been traumatized by making a monster post and then losing it; sorry if this offends anyone)...