In post 306, Malakittens wrote:
In post 291, Grimgroove wrote:I'm slowly losing touch with this baby. Reading through the topic tonight and posting thoughts tomorrow.
Really? How? You were posting a decent amount prior. I'm not sure how you are losing touch...
There's been a lot of talk about meta that makes it harder for me to follow. For most people (apart from RachMarie) I only have this game to base certain conclusions on.
Just figuring out who "Mara" was, was already challenging, at first I thought it was a typo referring to Malakittens, then I thought it was a typo referring to Marie, and it's only today I realize we're talking about "Miss Destroyer", after reading back from the start of the thread and seeing her confirm under that name. (maybe it would be a good idea to sign the posts with "Mara" instead of the female symbol?)
But yes, a lot of meta-stuff going on.
When just looking at this game both fuzzybutternut and Wisdom would be pinging my radar as leaning scum, Wisdom less so. I find them both too concise when putting forward arguments. Wisdom is definitely providing townie-input by asking relevant and direct questions, but he remains an impenetrable box himself. I'm wary of him becoming some "voice in the sky" that gets taken for granted, without being questioned himself once in a while.
Fuzzybutternut has similar behavior, very short and very careful with giving too much information, completely ignoring cases raised against him. I completely agree with Zionite that this is scummy as hell, yet for some strange reason he's being cleared by his meta as well. Is there anything besides that that is in his favor? I have a hard time seeing arguments within this topic to conlude he's anything but scum.
If I have to clear both of them based on meta (which I'm very reluctant to do), I first would like to here what their meta tells are when they're scummy then. Some of you obviously have quite a few games under your belt with each other, so it's easier to just ask. Or give me pointers on how to do a meta-search on people in a time-efficient way because I can imagine it's better if I do it myself, but it just seems to take so long.
I don't like Mala"s post
122 at all. She admits to the argument not being strong, yet she finds it enough to keep Zionite at L-1. Granted, maybe it's true that at that stage of the game you don't have any better arguments than that, but then why keep the L-1 situation intact at that stage of the game then?
The thing with MIss Destroyer was obviously some misunderstanding. I don't see why Malakittens read it as she did because I don't see how one could come to such an interpretation, but I don't find her interpretation nor her reaction scummy in this instance.
But her 122 really burns my eyes.
I also don't like RachMarie defensiveness in post
221, and her reads staying on the surface. In her "defense" she has referred more to other games than this one, which I don't feel is a good sign. As she's the only one I know from another game, I have to tell you it's the first time I see her being this "emotional" in her defense. I find it very dodgy. This also burns my eyes. She's taking her discussion with Wisdom to the emotional plane for no reason at all, so I'm guessing it's an appeal to emtion, and scummy.
Miss Destroyer I really can't get a read on, she does provide reads but with very little facts/impressions to back those up. Her also using a lot of meta-tells in her argumentation isn't making this easier.
Does Bo Know I think is town. I still find his L-1-move quite risky, but he's one of the few who is scumhunting and providing the whole deal: arguments, questions, motivations, references, follow-ups and answers (a department where Wisdom is a bit lacking I think). I think the same holds for Zionite as for Does Bo Know (who, judging from his join-date, might be facing the same difficulties I have with all this meta-stuff). While Wisdom is also scumhunting, he's mainly activbe in the questioning department. I feel that in general there's not enough scumhunting and too many people acting as if being stepped on their toes, going into a stubborn shell of self-denfence and defiance.
And Horus, all of his arguments are objectively very smart and thought-out. He's obviously someone very clever, but being logical and good at explaining yourself doesn't necessarily make you town. I found his take on the connection between the Zionite wagon and fuzzybutternut rather strange, and when he said he was tempted to hammer Zionite (but wouldn't do it) it seemed like a strangely emotional argument that made me wonder what was brewing behind all this objective wisdom. Still got a townread on him though (his
96 screamed town.), though I'd like to see more of his opinions on other players. He's only talked about fuzzybutternut and Zionite so far.
UNVOTE:
I am not disinclined to put fuzzybutternut at L-1, but I feel it's a better idea to get a clearer picture of all this meta first.
