Balancing Cults

[Heinrich]

I'm planning a game for near-future use on a board (hence the new account, I don't want people to know if their in the game I'm talking about ) with a cult in it, and I'm wondering how they're best balanced.

Because of the the chance of power-roles, mafia, whatever else being recruited, doesn't a cult have the chance of getting out of hand power-wise very quickly? What is the best way to counter this without crippling the cult's chance of winning?

The game I'm planning has plenty of power roles, and assorted other people that if recruited could spell doom for their side (eg, masons), but would rather people kept their abilities on recruitment, because its silly if they don't IMHO.

I'd rather not disclose the entire setup (for bracketed reasons above), but I'd like some discussion on this, rather than just PM'd conversations with several people who may or may not all have conflicting views.

[Gleeman]

when recruited the power role loses their power, pretty simple.

[Ogianres]

The power of a cult pretty much depends on the percentage of other power roles in the game. If over half the people have some ability (secret or not) then the cult has >50% chance of recruiting a role. By having a (relatively) large percentage of roles, you can make it so that only so many cult-aligned people can use roles on any given night. If, however, you don't have a large percentage of roles, then the cult is as powerful as it should be and was made to be.

[Zindaras]

Some cult variants I've messed around with (or faced myself):

A Numbers Cult: Leader has a 10% chance to cultivate for every cultist in the entire game. (the role also had a trigger that allowed him to add to that chance) He sends out a player to do the Culting. A successful Cultivation on scum kills the player sent. This role also survives its first death.

This role was used in a double-Cult game, and it won, eventually.

A Town Cult: Basically, the Cult Leader is a Townie, but he doesn't know he's the Cult Leader. He can only target every player once (edit: and fails on scum).

This role was used in the same game. The player who got it was onto something, but didn't know exactly what.

More standard versions:

100% success, has to send out guys, if he targets a cop or scum, he fails and guy sent dies.

50% success, fails on scum, all cultists are vanilla-ized.

[petroleumjelly]

Best way to balance cults:

Don't use cults.

[Yosarian2]

First of all, a cult attempt to recruit a mafia member should never work, as then the entire cult will know who the mafia are and can then lead the town in lynching them while they recruit the rest of the town. Simply not fair to the mafia.

Even with that, though, a cult is inherently a very powerful group; more inherently dangerous then the mafia. You have to give them some kind of weakness in order to balance them out.

For example, make it so there's one cult leader, and if he dies the cult can't recruit anymore. Or give the town a mason group that can't be cultified. One or more pro-town vigs are also vital in a game with a cult, because that's the only way the town can "race" the cult if it comes to that./

[mikeburnfire]

Best way to balance cults:

Don't use cults.

Concur'D

I hate cults.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Cults own. 'nuff said.

[ShadowLurker]

Cultists only know the leader's identity and may not talk with the leader.

Cultists lose all power roles.

If a cult tries to recruit scum, a cultist should die.

Include a Cult Finder which is like a Cop but only gets guilty for cops. (He should be recruitable, but that's up to you)

[Tamuz]

Cults own. 'nuff said.

QFT

Lets see, Uhh... killing culties when they recruit a scum is hell. That would be like a no-night immune SK. Pretty much making their chances of dying N1 really really high.

[ShadowLurker]

Cults own. 'nuff said.

QFT

Lets see, Uhh... killing culties when they recruit a scum is hell. That would be like a no-night immune SK. Pretty much making their chances of dying N1 really really high.

The recruiter cannot die when a scum is recruited. So if there are no cultists, the recruiter can recruit without fear of dying from it.

[Zindaras]

Lets see, Uhh... killing culties when they recruit a scum is hell. That would be like a no-night immune SK. Pretty much making their chances of dying N1 really really high.

If the Cult Leader has an advantage (for example, surviving first death), that clause is very important for the balance, also because it forced the Leader to play conservatively.

[Mr. Flay]

Include a Cult Finder which is like a Cop but only gets guilty for cops.

Pretty sure you meant "only gets guilty for

cultists

" here, right?

[Twomz]

If leader dies, they all die. Also, making it so they fail to recruit certain roles (vig/mafia/doc/ w/e) could balance it. There was a "mason president" role in a game I played once, that was basically an overpower town aligned cult. Not only did recruited players still have their abilities... they could talk to each other, and if the pres. tried to recruit scum, he'd get pwned... and he and the other "masons" knew this.... and he recruited both the cops and someone from ANOTHER masonry...


So yeah, cults can get out of control, fast. And death cults (necromancer/dead priest) suck... don't use them... .

[mith]

Cults should only be used for Halo Mafia.

[Yosarian2]

And death cults (necromancer/dead priest) suck... don't use them... .

Unless you have a game where there are also pleanty of pro-towns who can revive or revive others from the dead.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

HALO MAFIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Primate]

HALO MAFIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does Halo Mafia work anyway?

[BrizzyBoi]

Was planning to do a cult in a Buffy Mafia I am going to run on another site. With half the game being non-human, would it be reasonable to say Cult can only "recruit" non mafia humans?

[Thok]

Quite reasonable. (A common restriction on cults is that they can only recruit roles of a certain type.)

[Ozymandius]

Or you could make it so that the cult can't recruit, but rather recruits people who target them. I got that one in a chat game once. I died N1 though I think. Scum got me.

[Fritzler]

Or you could make it so that the cult can't recruit, but rather recruits people who target them. I got that one in a chat game once. I died N1 though I think. Scum got me.

wouldn't they just be recruited then?