Mini 1596: Minimence I Game Over!!!

[Bicephalous Bob]

Page 1

Boon jet and riabi seem town

don't know about kush

elyse's first post was awkwardly formatted and seems to be as mechanical as possible

rc doesn't feel very town either

[Bicephalous Bob]

Page 2

No rc is really not townish

Joker and rubiks are null

Slandaar and acryon are sort of scummy and I think a wagon on the latter would be nice

VOTE: acryon

[Bicephalous Bob]

some things sound more townish than other things

[Bicephalous Bob]

VOTE: Bicephalous Bob

Scum.

shhhh

[Bicephalous Bob]

I'm pretty good at faking my town meta as scum though!

[Bicephalous Bob]

some things sound more townish than other things

You still haven't really provided any details. What statements in particular sound scummy/townish to support those initial reads? If you have actual reads based on certain statements by players, why would you withhold them from the town?

I'm still v/la

the players I read as scum don't seem to try and figure things out or seem to be hiding something or just strike me as odd

your first few posts seemed like the bad kind of lecturing and passiveness

[Bicephalous Bob]

back

No rc is really not townish

Care to actually explain any of these reads you're giving us? I take it you agree with Espresso that it's anti-town and/or scummy of me to try and end RVS "too early"?

not at all

trying to end RVS is pro-town, but in no way alignment indicative unless we're talking about new players

you had plenty of opportunity to say something townish, as is often the case while doing something pro-town, you somehow managed not to

Bicephalous Bob: In post 48 he says he finds Coyote “really not townish”, and yet votes acryon who he find “slightly scummy”. Strange. His subsequent posts are just playful enough to warrant a

neutral-town

read from me though.

again, rc didn't seem scummy, he just really didn't look like town

209 was alright, though

acryon is probably town

espresso is cool for his acryon townread and tone

joker and dla could be scum

I stopped reading and started skimming candice's posts after the post by post analysis

yeah i must be high or something voting candice. I just read his case on hiplop and I found it very accurate and convincing. If he's scum she's one of the most impressive scum I've ever seen, which is possible I guess.

UNVOTE: candice

weird

VOTE: elyse

what's your current read on acryon

[Bicephalous Bob]

@Bicephalous Bob -- Is there any specific reason or reasons for your vote on Elyse?

She still has that weird tone and I don't read acryon as scum anymore.

Also, I really want to know the answer to the question.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I wanted to know elyse's read on acryon

voting people generally makes them respond quickly

Your read on acryon was null in 149

this was when some people (me and slandaar, I think) still seemed to think he was scummy, but now he's the closest thing to a universal townread, you claim you had him as town all along?

[Bicephalous Bob]

you had plenty of opportunity to say something townish, as is often the case while doing something pro-town, you somehow managed not to

This just sounds like you pulled some generic ideas out of the air and applied them to me. Naturally, I strongly disagree with the notion that I have not "said something townish". Look, just admit that you aren't digging me due to a gut read instead of trying to make up some gobbledygook about me meeting some arbitrary standard of "saying something townish".

saying it's a gut read doesn't cover it

you did something pro-town (not gut), but you didn't sound townish at all while doing so (gut)

anyway, I'm slowly getting over it

[Bicephalous Bob]

espresso, are you able to accurately read boon?

@Bob
I'm townreading acryon...? I've been townreading him since the beginning and never wavered on that. Did you think it changed?

you liked riabi's readlist

his top read was an awkward null read on acryon

why did you like his readlist

[Bicephalous Bob]

you forgot to italicize exactly

[Bicephalous Bob]

I don't have to agree with every single read on someone's read list to like it. I thought he had good, well thought out reasons and he explained himself very well.

no, but "I like that readlist" is a weird comment if you disagree with the read he apparently put most thought in

[Bicephalous Bob]

I don't have to agree with every single read on someone's read list to like it. I thought he had good, well thought out reasons and he explained himself very well.

no, but "I like that readlist" is a weird comment if you disagree with the read he apparently put most thought in

How do you know that's the one he put most thought into?

Plus, I get how the whole "I am town and am here to do my job and find scum" statements can come off as scummy so his null read on him was understandable.

I don't understand why you're so hung up on this.

I said apparently

going from the readlist, what appears to you to be the read he put most thought into?

I'm hung up about this because the scum motivation for saying you like riabi's readlist seems much higher than the town motivation

[Bicephalous Bob]

Nah, I'd get NK'd if I start off too strong.

I will protect you

I promise

[Bicephalous Bob]

no comment

[Bicephalous Bob]

bob seems to be playing just like he did in my last game with him. He was town there? May be worth something. I dont believe i've ever played with scum-bob however so I will try and find time to investigate that guy!

I just realized that you aren't hopkirk and you aren't talking about knight errant 2

you're talking about mean girls, right?

I was scum in that game and tunneled the annoying loved townie with the alien avatar

my play was radically different there

[Bicephalous Bob]

that would explain your play but no

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=38509

[Bicephalous Bob]

it doesn't read like an act

if he's scum, he probably actively looked for a reason to whiteknight me and a way to apply meta to me even though he completely forgot about our history (one game?)

[Bicephalous Bob]

"if the scum are good enough they won't look like scum so why bother scumhunting at all"?

[Bicephalous Bob]

I don't know how to determine which read he put the most effort in.

The scum motivation is what? Buddying Riabi? That would mean he's town. Are you confident enough that he is town to call me scum based on buddying him? Or is there another scum motivation?

Town motivation is to express my thoughts on other players' posts and continue discussion. It also shows where I stand in the game.

you could be buddying riabi, but it just has the air of a post you yourself don't believe is useful, but would go well with us

[Bicephalous Bob]

boon, is espresso always this defensive?

has he voted you without reading you as scum before?

[Bicephalous Bob]

"if the scum are good enough they won't look like scum so why bother scumhunting at all"?

Because that's exactly what I said. I was and am referring specifically to the making of mistakes over and over like he was doing, not every single thing a scum would ever do.

it seemed like you were dismissing my interpretation of his posts based on the fact that it's possible he's good enough to fool me

that's not very helpful

[Bicephalous Bob]

slandaar what's your read on kush

[Bicephalous Bob]

But, your question did intrigue me, and so I went and did a (very quick) meta search through some of his old games. I never looked past the first few pages, but, in every game I looked through, he was town, and in every game I looked through, he offered at least SOME analysis early in the game. Usually not very deep (which is ok), but, more than he's done here.

Some examples:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6039998
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5986178
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5963477

espresso, is it true that boon puts more effort in his town games?

[Bicephalous Bob]

While espresso's opinion on that is potentially of interest, I don't see how it's any more valuable than say... your take on it... so what's yours?

I haven't checked boon's meta

VOTE: boon

[Bicephalous Bob]

I have a few town reads, no incredible scumreads so even if boon's town play is indistinguishable from his scum play like espresso claims, he's a good lynch

also gut

[Bicephalous Bob]

he's sort of scummy

Hiplop is scum and not a subtle as Acryon. I'd be willing to lynch either.

so why did you vote acryon in the first place

he's a less viable wagon

[Bicephalous Bob]

I think Bicephalous Bob is town. If anyone is doctor though, they should be pounding him into the ground. Considering no one is, I think he's good.

uh?

[Bicephalous Bob]

I was jokingly motivating boon to do something useful

why would you think that's serious

[Bicephalous Bob]

and if you thought that was serious, why weren't you screaming at me for claiming doc on day 1

[Bicephalous Bob]

Boon why are you still voting candice

[Bicephalous Bob]

reinoe, 422?

[Bicephalous Bob]

also dla that's not really an answer

how did you feel when you saw my doc claim

[Bicephalous Bob]

slandaar what's your read on reinoe

[Bicephalous Bob]

I think Bicephalous Bob is town. If anyone is doctor though, they should be pounding him into the ground. Considering no one is, I think he's good.

I don't like this post very much. I, too, was very confused when I read this post, as I didn't remember him claiming doctor at all. This seems like a really confusing attempt at trying to clear him to make you appear town.

assuming it's an act, it seems like a terrible attempt to out the doctor

once again, I don't think it's an act

I do think it's problematic that he thought I claimed doctor without being pressured on day 1 and he didn't say anything about it

[Bicephalous Bob]

he's sort of scummy

Hiplop is scum and not a subtle as Acryon. I'd be willing to lynch either.

so why did you vote acryon in the first place

he's a less viable wagon

Look at it this way...

acryon is like a snake in the grass.

you're like a grasshopper in a thunderstorm

As for the "he's a less viable wagon", I push whom I think scum.

you thought both were scum, right? or did you figure out the least subtle scum last?

[Bicephalous Bob]

humans don't work like that

[Bicephalous Bob]

what's your read on riabi

[Bicephalous Bob]

He's not posting much, and when he is posting, I don't actually believe he's giving a lot of input other than, 'Boon's scum because he's barely posted, and the posts he has posted were bad!" Which, I get why it's reasonable. He's dead neutral for me, but there's really not too much to go on.

is that really all you got from him

riabi what did you think of boon's description of your play

[Bicephalous Bob]

scum often have "difficult" scumreads

reinoe is an ok lynch

[Bicephalous Bob]

obviously, town also have unpopular scumreads so it's null

[Bicephalous Bob]

reinoe, is your role PM phrased in such a way that it guarantees the existence of a doc?

[Bicephalous Bob]

that's not an answer

does your role PM say something like "the doctor"

[Bicephalous Bob]

shhhh

[Bicephalous Bob]

pfffft

VOTE: reinoe

if reinoe flips scum dla is town

[Bicephalous Bob]

I'd like a final readlist and a chance to ask questions about it

p-edit: oh

[Bicephalous Bob]

I never fake claimed in any previous game.

Secondly, I said the color code was damn fine scumhunting and that I would do it again.

So you always claim vt as scum? Or do you always claim scum?

Secondly, no that was terrible

[Bicephalous Bob]

so what did you mean by saying you never ever fakeclaimed

[Bicephalous Bob]

and a modkill and a lot of drama

[Bicephalous Bob]

why exactly, reinoe? because her reads have been inconsistent?
you have to admit, nurse is one of the more fishier claims.

Yeah, I guess. What can I do? How 'bout this...


I agree with the sentiment. I feel the same way about miller claims. They need to be policy lynched. It sucks but them's the breaks. I promise to self vote on DAY 3 if I'm not night-killed by then.

you claimed your role guarantees the existence of a doc

why would you vote yourself on day 3 if there's a way to prove your role

[Bicephalous Bob]

although it won't really be prove, it does make the claim more likely

[Bicephalous Bob]

it just seems like reinoe's trying to haggle his way out of this

[Bicephalous Bob]

you do realize you aren't being run up because your role would be a solid fakeclaim, don't you?

no one policy lynches hiders or 1-shot BPs

you are being run up because people read you as scum

although it won't really be prove, it does make the claim more likely

Outing a doc in order to potentially make a claim more likely isn't the way to go.

I wasn't suggesting that

a doc may be outed before day 3 or we might massclaim on day 3

I think reinoe realized that he's fucked anyway when we massclaim or when a strong PR flips so he just hopes to make it as far as possible

he isn't even considering the possibility of actually becoming the doctor before day 3

[Bicephalous Bob]

yes we have

[Bicephalous Bob]

The hardest part of playing scum is making a good 'case' on someone.

this isn't true

the quality of my cases depends more on the playerlist than on my alignment

also, a lot of players are just bad at making cases in general

[Bicephalous Bob]

depends on what you call a good case

I can certainly raise valid points and make it appear like I truly believe my case

-Love Kush, xoxoxoox

can't lynch this

[Bicephalous Bob]

weird kill

VOTE: boon

[Bicephalous Bob]

Meh, we're going to end up in a no lynch. I guess it's better than a mislynch. Just meh. Never a good feeling being forced into a no lunch.

he said, while voting reinoe

[Bicephalous Bob]

That was a very extensive bah post.

post-mortem modkill!

[Bicephalous Bob]

uh-huh

depends on what you call a good case

Yes. I tend to think of good cases as non-generic as they show good town thought but it depends.

I can certainly raise valid points

and make it appear like I truly believe my case

Untrue.

If you are making a case on town all your points are invalid. Thus as town you shouldn't be making similar cases ergo they should always be better.

valid-looking points

jeez

townies also make cases on town

now please vote boon since he clearly didn't know what to do with the stagnating wagon on town

[Bicephalous Bob]

RIABI SHOULD HAVE CLAIMED MILLER!!!!

as it turns out, he shouldn't have!

[Bicephalous Bob]

I don't play good town, i'm always town fool. Not always on purpose, either.

could you link to a town game where you claim the same thing?

[Bicephalous Bob]

Any of my games you can look at. I've only been scum once, and it was when I replaced in at end game and was lynched within 2 pages.

I just read through your ISO in phok's micro and you didn't say you always suck as town

link please

[Bicephalous Bob]

^ which is why I posted that I hope Reinoe sees that, which you so blatantly left out.

Yeah it was really ungentlemanlike of me to not get your inside joke

[Bicephalous Bob]

Any of my games you can look at. I've only been scum once, and it was when I replaced in at end game and was lynched within 2 pages.

I just read through your ISO in phok's micro and you didn't say you always suck as town

link please

Never mind

I just read 802

[Bicephalous Bob]

what's your read on hiplop

[Bicephalous Bob]

yeah {boon, hiplop, elyse} should at least contain one scum

[Bicephalous Bob]

boon is espresso still town

[Bicephalous Bob]

the associative tells are icky and boon is still scummier than both

kush isn't scummy

[Bicephalous Bob]

not much

[Bicephalous Bob]

he just has an air of transparency hanging around him

it's mostly gut

[Bicephalous Bob]

that's just shit

[Bicephalous Bob]

why did you have to put everything in bold except for the part that sort of makes sense

[Bicephalous Bob]

why did you have to put everything in bold except for the part that sort of makes sense

why does it matter what parts he boldified?? is the better question

because he apparently thought the entirely nonsensical parts were more important

[Bicephalous Bob]

ugh

boon, what's scummy about changing my reads after page 1?

what's scummy about implying that I'd lynch a scummy player that is known to be hard to read (I don't anymore believe you are) because the players I do have a good read on seem mostly town?

[Bicephalous Bob]

also is espresso still town

[Bicephalous Bob]

my town read was based on two wacky posts so it wasn't exactly solid

I remember that he kept his vote on candice but didn't talk about him

his play of which the scumminess is easier to put in words, however, started at the end of day 1

I didn't like his response to reinoe's accusation of the hammer being a scum claim

I didn't like his "too bad we are going to no lynch I guess it's better than a mislynch" musing while there were 4 hours left and he was "really feeling reinoe was scum"

if boon really thought reinoe was scum he would be telling people to vote him

today, I didn't like his response to pressure and I didn't like his terrible case on me

[Bicephalous Bob]

vote please

[Bicephalous Bob]

did you miss post 869

also can you finally give your read on espresso

[Bicephalous Bob]

Him and Bob have been buddying up on me this entire game, and I'm 100% positive one of them are scum.

I agree that hiplop has been buddying me, but can you point me to a post where I'm buddying him?

[Bicephalous Bob]

also, he's probably getting lynched before me so why would I buddy him?

[Bicephalous Bob]

slandaar, are you following boon vs me? what do you think of it?

[Bicephalous Bob]

@All those questions:

EXCEPT

, I just pointed out that there is a buddying thing going on between the two. Mainly him on you, so if Bob is actually Town, Hip could be WK'ing.

ok you lied about the fact that I buddied him and you lied about the fact that I still haven't given more reasons than gut to scumread you

got it

[Bicephalous Bob]

We are not so different after all!

[Bicephalous Bob]

nah

VOTE: hiplop

[Bicephalous Bob]

elyse's fishiness isn't exactly recent, but I think boon and hiplop are both scummier

kush is still pretty townish, though, and I'm willing to vote any of the above if his wagon gains traction

[Bicephalous Bob]

maybe asking people to vote is too much, but the "oh well"-ish reaction doesn't sit well with me

[Bicephalous Bob]

902 was alright though

[Bicephalous Bob]

Don't have much to add.

Can anyone give me a summary of the hiplop case?

what were your thoughts on the summary of the boon case you requested

[Bicephalous Bob]

Slandaar and acryon, why aren't you voting (elyse)? Why is the lot of you acting like day 2 votes are something holy and votes are only for pressure and keeping track of scumreads on day 1? Is this some kind of mini normal meta thing? Because it isn't going to be very helpful in the future.

[Bicephalous Bob]

since people use it to exclusively pressure their top scumread, the more votes you have, the likelier it is you're getting lynched

that's pretty scary for scum

[Bicephalous Bob]

just read the thread

you only missed 3 pages

[Bicephalous Bob]

What did you think it said?

[Bicephalous Bob]

Not you. Kush.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Why do you read DLA as town?

[Bicephalous Bob]

please lay down a vote

[Bicephalous Bob]

VOTE: boon

this feels slightly better at the moment

[Bicephalous Bob]

reinoe claimed scum in twilight

[Bicephalous Bob]

rc hasn't done many alignment-indicative things but forgetting that is pretty scummy

[Bicephalous Bob]

I don't see how forgetting a troll claim in twilight is scummy.

scum is more likely to disregard those claims since they have a higher incentive to disbelieve them

I think it's a lot scummier to claim that scum has flipped when they haven't.

no it isn't there is literally no scum motivation here

he's either faking it for towncred or he's town

I'm thinking. I still think Hiplop is scum (call it tunneling if you want but you've done nothing to change my read on you) but that comment by Kush makes me think scumslip.

And if Kush's comment was a scumslip that implicates Elyse.

sorry but astrology is the only acceptable substitute for scumhunting

[Bicephalous Bob]

well, since thinking reinoe was scum is more a town slip than a scum slip...

I was implying he's town, though

[Bicephalous Bob]

boon wait for a claim

someone unvote just in case

[Bicephalous Bob]

hiplop, have you played as jk before? can you link the game(s)?

[Bicephalous Bob]

also, if we don't lynch you, you should definitely try to target scum

[Bicephalous Bob]

phoneposting so I can't look for it myself, what were those questions about? Link is fine too

So Elyse thinks he's a scum rb, but I'm willing to believe hiplop if he links to games where he jailkeeps unclaimed townreads (not how you should play as a jailkeeper! Best case scenario, you put the town on even numbers and you have an extra night in which you can try to actually roleblock scum. Worst case scenario: you roleblock a town pr)

[Bicephalous Bob]

VOTE: elyse

[Bicephalous Bob]

VOTE: espresso

boon not voting his counterwagon twice is pretty townish

elyse isnt very scummy

anyone who can be on right before deadline should vote esp, if it doesnt work out, we can always move back our votes

[Bicephalous Bob]

ugh

VOTE: boon

[Bicephalous Bob]

unless other players get here we can only lynch boon

[Bicephalous Bob]

hiplop why did you think slandaar was scum :(

blocking scum as a JK is way more useful than protecting a PR, no progression just an even number of players etc

[Bicephalous Bob]

possibility of a no-kill gambit so not actually confirmed?

[Bicephalous Bob]

massclaim?

[Bicephalous Bob]

massclaim?

How do you think that will help us? Never played this format of game before, so genuinely interested.

any powerhouse role claim makes hiplop's claim unlikely to be true since we already have flipped cop

on the other hand, if everyone else claims vt, hiplop is very likely to be telling the truth since a cop alone is in no way going to cut it against two goons and a roleblocker

can't wait until lylo since we want an opportunity to lynch both claims

[Bicephalous Bob]

like, the difference between a town jailkeeper and mafia rb is so big that we should be either able to confirm his claim or lynch the cc tomorrow

[Bicephalous Bob]

...him being a...

[Bicephalous Bob]

I mean the difference in terms of balance, if that helps

[Bicephalous Bob]

It does, sort of. If hiplop is scum, there should be way more town power (I forgot about the miller). If he isn't, there shouldn't be. Although it doesn't confirm him 100%, I think a massclaim will give town more useful information than scum at this point.

[Bicephalous Bob]

kush you first gotta claim

[Bicephalous Bob]

aw I wanted to do that after the massclaim

[Bicephalous Bob]

kush name the scummiest player that hasn't claimed yet

[Bicephalous Bob]

kush :(

[Bicephalous Bob]

if it isnt likely, why didnt you also protect candice?

[Bicephalous Bob]

games get reviewed

[Bicephalous Bob]

anyone who is around when dla gets back, make him claim immediately

[Bicephalous Bob]

so what are the claimed blue roles so far? jk/doctor/cop? that is massively op for a 13 person game. Usually it's 2 town prs right? unless they are 1 shot.
who claimed what

kush get on with it

espresso, acryon and hiplop claimed

[Bicephalous Bob]

Phone posting from the plane. Not entirely pleased about the outcome. I'll read up and respond when I get to a computer. Until then, why was I asked to claim?

massclaim please don't catch up claim immediately

[Bicephalous Bob]

Additionally, I also expected the JK on Candice from hip, so I didn't save her.

also, if we don't lynch you, you should definitely try to target scum

hiplop, have you played as jk before? can you link the game(s)?

I have a bunch! Not since coming back. Honestly I play too many games to be able to remember specifics. I'll look after my shift (at 9)

hmm. In my eyes I expected a night kill on her. I will follow how you say to proceed though, bob.

[Bicephalous Bob]

you can popcorn since kush had his chance

[Bicephalous Bob]

vt

[Bicephalous Bob]

doc, cop and miller isn't enough against a rb

[Bicephalous Bob]

options:

1. scum have negative utilities
2. someone is holding back a claim
3. acryon is scum

[Bicephalous Bob]

oh i forgot

are you also a vt?

Who said anything about a roleblocker?

if hiplop's scum, he's a roleblocker

[Bicephalous Bob]

that's shit :(

[Bicephalous Bob]

Have you ever nodded Bob? For the most part of he reviewers stick to your vision, just checking if its balanced. Nothing non-valanced about a jk and a doctor Bob.

it's really hard to properly balance doc/jk/cop

[Bicephalous Bob]

Doc, Cop, Miller with a scum RB. Hrmmm. If the RB is limited shot this seems fine to me which can absolutely be the case.

meh

[Bicephalous Bob]

1-shot RB, maybe

[Bicephalous Bob]

meh

[Bicephalous Bob]

no he isn't what are you talking about

[Bicephalous Bob]

you literally made the same mistake when I made that argument

[Bicephalous Bob]

slandaar why the hell do you think dla is town

[Bicephalous Bob]

That question really was for slandaar, though. RC, why can't you get the hang of this game? It isn't one of "those games".

[Bicephalous Bob]

I do understand what you're saying but it's no good. (Please don't reference sig, thanks.)

A scum team with roleblock would be far too strong for a cop (who is weak because of a miller) and a doctor.

this is clearly an argument against hiplop being a roleblocker (don't try to make this about whether or not it's a solid argument because we both know that's not what you were talking about)

^ Can we lynch that already?

Hiplop, if your fakeclaim were real, the scum team wouldn't have a roleblocker. You're arguing against your own case.

so this makes absolutely no sense

[Bicephalous Bob]

hmm espresso needs prodding

[Bicephalous Bob]

no it's lylo tomorrow

we lynch the scummiest player

[Bicephalous Bob]

hiplop, have you played as jk before? can you link the game(s)?

I have a bunch! Not since coming back. Honestly I play too many games to be able to remember specifics. I'll look after my shift (at 9)

this never happened

[Bicephalous Bob]

acryon please explain

Additionally, I also expected the JK on Candice from hip, so I didn't save her.

also, if we don't lynch you, you should definitely try to target scum

hiplop, have you played as jk before? can you link the game(s)?

I have a bunch! Not since coming back. Honestly I play too many games to be able to remember specifics. I'll look after my shift (at 9)

hmm. In my eyes I expected a night kill on her. I will follow how you say to proceed though, bob.

[Bicephalous Bob]

why didn't you also push for hiplop targeting scum so you could doc candice and give her an extra night to investigate?

[Bicephalous Bob]

him

sorry candice

[Bicephalous Bob]

Assuming hiplopscum and acryontown, the great thing is that acryon won't be NKed, because it would mean that hiplop would be lynched the subsequent day. However, acryon will probably be roleblocked by hiplop.

However, we can still use this to our advantage. If acryon correctly protects a player that is NKed, he can claim this toomorrow, and it will be evident that he has been RBed. Then hiplop must be scum.

you can't believe this

you just can't

[Bicephalous Bob]

if hiplop's scum he won't rb acryon unless he's desperate for a 1v1

if acryon's scum he can set up hiplop by claiming to have protected the nk

[Bicephalous Bob]

if acryon's scum he can set up hiplop by claiming to have protected the nk

Hiplop could have prevented the kill.

if acryon's scum and the kill does go through, that is

[Bicephalous Bob]

that's no what I mean, but never mind, the thing that really bothers me about dla's post on last page is that he starts out with "assuming hiplop scum and acryon town" and his conclusion is "then hiplop is scum and acryon is town"

it really seems like he was making a post for the sake of saying something, not because he had a point he wanted to make before he started writing it

I really think kush is town and {hiplop, acryon} contains one scum at most

that leaves 2/3 scum in {slandaar, rc, dla, espresso, elyse}

[Bicephalous Bob]

oh and what I meant was, if acryon's scum and the kill does go through, he can set hiplop up by claiming to have unsuccessfully protected the nk

[Bicephalous Bob]

so there's literally no info there

[Bicephalous Bob]

the set-up is that acryon claims to have been rb'ed in that case, slandaar

kush's townslip still seems genuine and I remember really liking some of his posts in context

[Bicephalous Bob]

The real selling point to me is that acryon claimed after hiplop. There is no way in my mind that would happen with scum-acryon. Also, he said things that make sense in retrospect seeing him as doc.

I haven't really seen anything that clearly comes from a confused doc and not from scum trying to get a PR lynched

can you give me an example?

[Bicephalous Bob]

I don't seriously consider an acryon lynch anymore

I meant to get more of a read on you, but I completely forgot that post was yours

the first and the third quotestrip are alright

slandaar why the hell do you think dla is town

I'm not Slandaar, but I think he is town because of almost his entire ISO. Key points being his consistent defense of Boon as silly town and Espresso as scum. The former was obviously correct, and the latter is a sentiment now shared by a good chunk of town.

I just realized I never really responded to this one because I was more interested at slandaar's thoughts at the time, but consistency isn't a good thing and the defense and the push seemed a bit shallow

[Bicephalous Bob]

csareo please claim

[Bicephalous Bob]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think consistency can't be a good thing. Many times the most consistent people are scum, but the way DLA has posted about Espresso/Boon just sounds so town to me. If you read back through, you may get what I mean.

I did and do not

the more I think about it, the less comfortable I feel with an espresso lynch

his "woe is me" attitude (which is null if he really gets lynched a lot as town) radiated subtle disappointment in us every time he got run up which seems pretty hard to fake

I really think dla is more likely to be scum at this point

his L-1 vote was just plain rancid and his logic is getting fuzzier and fuzzier as the days go by

VOTE: dla

p-edit: oh I forgot to hit submit pretend this is 1393

[Bicephalous Bob]

DLA, do you still use meta?

[Bicephalous Bob]

cs have you caught up? did you see anything that we've missed? what are your thoughts on other people?

[Bicephalous Bob]

cs have you caught up? did you see anything that we've missed? what are your thoughts on other people?

I can't judge anyone ATM, as every post has been "expresso, expresso!!!". I haven't caught up though.
Trying, but I've been pretty busy.

why did you put someone on L-1 before catching up

[Bicephalous Bob]

you're not voting

[Bicephalous Bob]

oh my

[Bicephalous Bob]

What is this mindset that everybody has on this site that if you're not voting you're not contributing?

you are complaining about the lack of pressure on everyone else while not pressuring anybody with your vote

[Bicephalous Bob]

cs answer my questions

[Bicephalous Bob]

This is such a waste of a day, nothing is being accomplished for town right here.

then accomplish something!

[Bicephalous Bob]

if you're lynched a lot, you must have started to see the differences between town- and scum-pushed wagons on you

how much do you feel your wagon is pushed by scum?

also, I really am interested in your reads and I don't care if you feel they are pretty weak or distorted by the noose around your neck

[Bicephalous Bob]

Bob, do you think the long delay in hammering Espresso means that the scum are fighting against it or that they can't quite push it over the top?

I think espresso's wagon is scum-driven, but the long delay doesn't have anything to do with that

oh and slandaar the type of vca you're employing is useless

putting me and espresso in one tier also doesn't make any sense because defending town espresso one day before 7p lylo is literally the worst thing I could do as scum

[Bicephalous Bob]

It's the best type. Completely unbiased VCA based on facts not 'oh I think X,Y and Z are town so A is scum!'

those aren't facts, you're making a lot of assumptions about the make-up of wagons

a wagon has just as much chance to have scum in it as any arbitrarily chosen group of the same size

[Bicephalous Bob]

also did you just hammer after all terrible votes on espresso's wagon?

[Bicephalous Bob]

i think there's a good chance you have to metaphorically eat your metaphorical hat

[Bicephalous Bob]

those aren't facts, you're making a lot of assumptions about the make-up of wagons

That is how VCA works. Good job. I don't see any being unreasonable.

that's how that type of VCA works

as for why it's unreasonable, see sentence 2

[Bicephalous Bob]

1445 was so bad in so many ways. I can't possibly see him flipping town.

it seemed quite honest

[Bicephalous Bob]

...about the make-up of wagons in general, that is

for example, you could deduce from the current votecount and one of the last votecounts on day 2 where I was still voting him that I'm not scum if espresso is town because it's very unlikely I'd start whiteknighting him one day before 7p lylo

of course, you're still making assumptions about me, but at least you aren't committing a weird statistical fallacy

[Bicephalous Bob]

We already had the cop claim and then subsequently die and flip cop. What is he even talking about here? Then adds the comment about not wanting a cop claim to try to gain some last-second town points, except that our cop is dead so this makes no sense.

scum would also know this he's being theatrical

not indicative of alignment

To answer your question finally, I know I'm not that great at reading people (I could be much better if I put in the effort)

If you request a case report on him, I'll go back and I'll do that for you, but otherwise I'm not likely to put in that effort on my own

Ooooh, so he would be a great town if he just put in the effort, but chooses not to. Perfect.

he doesn't want to be seen as bad town by us after he has died so he is making up petty excuses

why would scum care about that

Yes, I do believe that they are all acting rather scummy, and I do believe that there is possibly scum within that group of people, but I would not be shocked to discover that I was wrong in that assumption, especially seeing how I have now placed Slandaar among my townreads. Does this bother you?

Why would this bother me? It's clear I think Slandaar is town.

This

entire

post is crap. Your thought that it isn't is insane Bob.

I never claimed the post was high quality, just that it seems like he believes what he's saying

[Bicephalous Bob]

it's very unlikely I'd start whiteknighting him

Here I will even show you this is wrong.

This line cannot be deduced from VC's therefore is not anything to do with VCA hence what you are saying is completely nonsense.

ok, it isn't pure vote count analysis, but "I tried to speedlynch espresso yesterday" and "I'm defending espresso today" are unbiased facts which can be backed up by the votecounts

[Bicephalous Bob]

Elyse/dla/{rc,cs}

[Bicephalous Bob]

Doc cop vs x-shot rb and miller is scum-sided

[Bicephalous Bob]

In any case, I don't think hiplop would've claimed full jk as x-shot rb

[Bicephalous Bob]

The more I think about it, the more convinced I get that hiplop's claim is a scumclaim.

Weren't you also thinking this before you pushed espresso's lynch through?

[Bicephalous Bob]

why do you think dla is bussing hiplop?

[Bicephalous Bob]

If I were scum with hiplop I would bus him.

Not if everyone more or less stopped trying to find scum based on the PR claims, would you?

[Bicephalous Bob]

What's the point of saying it if you don't explain it?

I request one of the PRs protecting me as I think it's agreed that I am the best townie here. Slandaar is the only person that disagrees with this, and he will probably be changing his mind about it in the next few hours anyway.

????

[Bicephalous Bob]

Yes, I would go after hiplop as any alignment.

Why is that unsettling to you, RC? Are you basing your read on me on my read of hiplop?

Why would you go after scum hiplop as scum elyse at this point?

[Bicephalous Bob]

Why are you not dead bobsie?

I don't know

it's not because I'm scum

[Bicephalous Bob]

can we please wait for hiplop to claim results

[Bicephalous Bob]

...claim target

[Bicephalous Bob]

^that's complete WIFOM

you're next

does it seem more fluffy to you than dla's reasoning yesterday?

[Bicephalous Bob]

Not just talking about today. After he failed to protect the cop he also blamed it on others.

...jailkeep the cop

how is that worse than this:

why didn't you also push for hiplop targeting scum so you could doc candice and give her an extra night to investigate?

I had already decided that I wanted to protect Slandaar, because I thought the things he was bringing to the table were really important.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I was obviously not whiteknighting

slandaar isn't conftown but who cares

[Bicephalous Bob]

rc why did you think you were considered to be the towniest/nightkill yesterday

[Bicephalous Bob]

^that's complete WIFOM

you're next

does it seem more fluffy to you than dla's reasoning yesterday?

What specifically are you talking about?

everything except for half of the acryon=doc thing

UNVOTE:

An option would be lynching bob today, and asking hiplop to protect slandaar.

I missed this the first time around because I'm just as stuck in the dla=scum mentality as he is, but this is fucking ridiculous

from town dla's point of view, either rc and elyse are both scum, or hiplop is

in any other case there would've been a quickhammer

[Bicephalous Bob]

dla, do you think it's more likely that I'm scum than that hiplop is town and elyse and rc are both scum?

[Bicephalous Bob]

Went through and did a little scum-read analysis on everyone.
DLA, Hip and Elyse are being scum-read by at least 5 of the other 6 players. All three of them are also scum-reading each other. I don't think any bussing is going on here, because bussing both of your other scum makes 0 sense.

this doesn't exclude the possibility of two scum being in that group

dla and elyse are only soft-bussing

Which leads me to think that at-most 1 of them can be scum. This leaves Bob, RC, and Slandaar. Slandaar is essentially confirmed town, which gives me a scum-team of RC, Bob, and one of DLA/Hip/Elyse.

so this conclusion is false

[Bicephalous Bob]

you went from "scum don't bus both partners" to "scum don't bus any partners even if they'll never have to put their vote where their mouth is"

that's a logical leap, not an assumption

[Bicephalous Bob]

it's lylo

if a townie votes a townie it's game over

you went from "scum don't bus both partners" to "scum don't bus any partners even if they'll never have to put their vote where their mouth is"

that's a logical leap, not an assumption

I didn't say scum don't bus any partners. I just think given the triangle of DLA/Hip/Elyse with all 3 of them scum-reading each other, I don't see 2 scum in there. There is definitely 1, but if Elyse and DLA are both scum, why would they bus each other as well as pushing hip? All that does is bring suspicion back to both of them once hip goes down. (Replace any of the names with any of the 3).

it's lylo

there is no "after hip goes down" if hip is town

[Bicephalous Bob]

...from town dla's perspective

[Bicephalous Bob]

I proved that his push on me didn't come from a town perspective, remeber?