Mini 488 - Killings in Clich├®-town - Game Over!

ChronX · Post Post #625 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:14 am

~~~~~~~~~

Votecount

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Post 633.

Guardian - 3 -

(Jenter, ChronX, the fonz)

Jenter - 1 -

(Guardian)

ChronX - 1 -

(Korlash)

Not Voting - 1 - (Kison)

With six alive, it takes

four

to lynch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@Korlash

OK, so you are looking for conversation. Since Jenter and I obliged you by restating our reasons for voting Guardian, please address any and all of the following:

1. Do you have any concrete thoughts about each (any?) player left in the game? Your posting style is to ramble aloud and question your own conclusions right after you state them. I haven't meta'd you; maybe you are always selfdoubting. Please make a definitive statement about 1 or more of the 5 of us also in the game.

2. Why were you so willing to vote Guardian before Fonz had even turned up to post results, but now that he has been caught in a lie/misrepresentation (which was simultaneous to him pushing a case on you), and he is at L-1, you are having such a difficult time putting your vote back on him? What has changed to make him less votable?

3. You want more talk, but so far all you have done to stimulate it is to ask the people voting Guardian to restate why. You then used my restatement to cast doubt on my status, with your comment that my case is "largely based on what others said", which is not true at all. Unless of course, you mean that my case is largely based on what IH and guardian have said, by "others".
Are you trying to get people to say things that you can use against them if we get to tomorrow?

4. Do you realize that I am not even trying to be subtle with points 2 and 3 in suggesting that I find your behavior lately to be scummy?

Jenter Brolincani · Post Post #626 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:31 am

2. Why were you so willing to vote Guardian before Fonz had even turned up to post results, but now that he has been caught in a lie/misrepresentation (which was simultaneous to him pushing a case on you), and he is at L-1, you are having such a difficult time putting your vote back on him? What has changed to make him less votable?

Be fair, he is at -1, I'm sure Korlash doesn't want to lose the game for town any more than you or I do.

Guardian · Post Post #627 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:39 am

Jenter Brolincani wrote:Be fair, he is at -1, I'm sure Korlash doesn't want to lose the game for town any more than you or I do.

Wow, the irony here is so thick... "any more than your or I do" -- you both would love to lose the game for town.

And ChronX trying to pressure Korlash into voting me by saying that Korlash is scummy otherwise?

Seriously...

Guardian · Post Post #628 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:42 am

ChronX wrote:
The Fonz wrote:Guardian has every reason to fakeclaim there. If there is more than one scum left (very, very likely) then we're at LyLo.
My case rests on Fonz's quote above, scummy vibes/play from IH and the phoney baloney tracker claim. I was skeptical of the tracker claim because it is just too implausible, which is why I was reading Guardian's postings and read his claim with a fine tooth comb.

As Guardian correctly points out, Kison hasn't been too scummy. Voting for him would be a poor act under Lylo. I believe Fonz is the cop, since he would have been unlikely to bus a roleblocker IMO. I believe his innocent on me and Korlash. Again, to chase me or Korlash when AT MOST one of us could be investigation-immune mafia godfather would be poor play at lylo. Jenter is a mason of some sort since there hasn't been a counterclaim. He may or may not be a bad mason. Since he can't lawfully quote his role PM, we can't really know.

Guardian is a good odds-on play, since he hasn't been cleared, had a scummy predecessor, and has made a scummy-ish claim at Lylo. If we nab him as scum, we will be able to investigate all the WIFOMy and other stuff next day. He might turn out to be a godfather, which would clear me and Korlash entirely and let us be the hammer, thus depriving the remaining mafia that opportunity. Basically, Jenter would have to vote Kison and Kison would have to vote Jenter and then submit to interrogation by Korlash and I (assuming Fonz would be offed).

Your whole case:

"Well, I don't like the tracker claim. And, process of elimination, since I am not scum, and neither is Jenter. Therefore, Guardian must be scum."

Your case boils down to nothing.

Guardian · Post Post #629 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:47 am

Jenter Brolincani wrote:Why I'm voting guard, top 5 reasons;

#1 I know I didn't go anywhere near vollkan last night. He's lying, he knows all he has to do to win is get me dead.

Lie.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#2 He stupidly failed to realise the implications of his results, most likely because he cocked them up on the spot.

Truth -- then lie. I failed to realize them because I replaced in and didn't think critically enough about IH's results from nights ago.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#3 If guardian is telling the truth, the scumteam must be GF-RB-Scum Mason which is awesomely improbable.

Lie. With Tracker-cop-mason-doc, that scum team makes sense.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#4 He's only not been sus of one person currently alive (Kison), and has actvely defended Kison while spearding suspicion on EVERY OTHER PLAYER.

And this means, what exactly? Everyone is saying I'm scum with Kison. I'm saying I'm not scum, and that Kison isn't eihter -- so the team as a whole makes no sense.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#5 Guardian is the only player who does not either have a cop innocent or a claim that definitely exists.

Bull. Your town mason claim doesn't exist. And from your POV, neither does Fonz's claim -- or all the claimed townies.

These cases are made of thin air.

Guardian · Post Post #630 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:50 am

Guardian wrote:
Kison wrote:Guardian, if you're scum, I applaud your attempt to make me #1 lynch candidate tomorrow.
First, I'm not scum. Second, what the heck do you mean?

The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!
If I didn't know better, from you not hammering me, I would think you were scum from that!

The reason I am very surprised by your choice of Jenter is that yesterday, you listed him somewhat low on your suspect list. You had Adel up there, and a few others who you said were considerably higher on your list. Why did Adel turning up town wash away your suspicions of those other players?
My investigation philosophy is investigate those I'm least sure of. If nothing came up on Jenter, I'd have waited for Fonz's results, and probably pursued Korlash today had there not been an innocent on him (yeah yeah, bad play in not figuring out he was confirmed town >.<), and as is, I'd have really re-evaluated my thoughts.

But what does it matter?? I tracked Jenter. Jenter=scum.

Kison, hello? If you vote me without responding to this, then you're worse than Korlash. At least he is trying to figure this out, all I see you doing is sitting on your but and asking one random question then another, and not engaging in any discussion.

You've been really good all game, why slack off now?

Lasltly:

mod:

prod Fonz?

Jenter Brolincani · Post Post #631 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:27 am

Guardian wrote:
Jenter Brolincani wrote:Why I'm voting guard, top 5 reasons;

#1 I know I didn't go anywhere near vollkan last night. He's lying, he knows all he has to do to win is get me dead.
Lie.

Truth. Wow. A word.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#2 He stupidly failed to realise the implications of his results, most likely because he cocked them up on the spot.
Truth -- then lie. I failed to realize them because I replaced in and didn't think critically enough about IH's results from nights ago.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#3 If guardian is telling the truth, the scumteam must be GF-RB-Scum Mason which is awesomely improbable.
Lie. With Tracker-cop-mason-doc, that scum team makes sense.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#4 He's only not been sus of one person currently alive (Kison), and has actvely defended Kison while spearding suspicion on EVERY OTHER PLAYER.
And this means, what exactly? Everyone is saying I'm scum with Kison. I'm saying I'm not scum, and that Kison isn't eihter -- so the team as a whole makes no sense.

Jenter Brolincani wrote:#5 Guardian is the only player who does not either have a cop innocent or a claim that definitely exists.
Bull. Your town mason claim doesn't exist. And from your POV, neither does Fonz's claim -- or all the claimed townies.

You've lost me here. explain please? I have claimed mason, everybody else has claimed, I am uncountered so I must from EVERYONE'S pov be the other mason. We KNOW the role exists. Fonz has a claim backed up by correct investigations and evidence. There are townies in this game, so we know that townie is a plausible claim. Tracker has no background, was claimed before anything else happened pretty much (but notably after Fonz posted his result for the night), and the town has no evidence you are telling the truth.

These cases are made of thin air.

ISO · Post Post #632 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:53 am

Hey Guardian, I said "More Later."

That translates to : "I'm not done yet."

And it's your lucky day, because later is now!

Guardian wrote:
Kison wrote:Guardian, if you're scum, I applaud your attempt to make me #1 lynch candidate tomorrow.
First, I'm not scum. Second, what the heck do you mean?

You're doing a good job trying to make me look overly innocent. You don't need to try if you're town, and that is yet another reason I am leaning towards hammering you. If Jenter is lynched and is the scum, then I am definitely not his partner. If I was, then you would be dead and this game would be over. That's a fact. Has nothing to do with my previous play throughout the entire game, which you annoyingly keep focusing on. So my question is, why are you displaying so much focus on my innocence? By default I am already one of the top lynch candidates tomorrow if you wind up being scum, and you showing obvious favoritism for me for things

that should no longer matter from your perspective as town

simply worsens my standing.

Guardian wrote:
Kison wrote:The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!
If I didn't know better, from you not hammering me, I would think you were scum from that!

Why?

Also, you got a problem with my interrogation? Would you rather I skip it?

Korlash · Post Post #633 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:53 pm

ChronX wrote:Please make a definitive statement about 1 or more of the 5 of us also in the game.

Sorry... Only scum can do that...

ChronX wrote:2. Why were you so willing to vote Guardian before Fonz had even turned up to post results, but now that he has been caught in a lie/misrepresentation (which was simultaneous to him pushing a case on you), and he is at L-1, you are having such a difficult time putting your vote back on him? What has changed to make him less votable?

Um.. you became a lot more scummy to me... And thus the Jenter/ChronX pair is a bit more believable in my mind. And I have already said why I voted him before the Fonz gave his investigation...

ChronX wrote:3. You want more talk, but so far all you have done to stimulate it is to ask the people voting Guardian to restate why. You then used my restatement to cast doubt on my status, with your comment that my case is "largely based on what others said", which is not true at all. Unless of course, you mean that my case is largely based on what IH and guardian have said, by "others".
Are you trying to get people to say things that you can use against them if we get to tomorrow?

See below:

ChronX wrote:My case rests on Fonz's quote above, scummy vibes/play from IH and the phoney baloney tracker claim.

your case is one third based on what the Fonz said. I admit I overstated the "Largely" as i did not fully read this sentence.

As for stimulating conversation I believe it was in the towns best interest. If guard is our tracker I would hate to have hammered his this early. Your reaction to me seems to indicate your angry I would rather be sure about him then just hammer right now, which I deem very scummy at LYLO.

ChronX wrote:4. Do you realize that I am not even trying to be subtle with points 2 and 3 in suggesting that I find your behavior lately to be scummy?

I bet you do. I would call the town who ruined my brilliant scum plan scummy too! Do you realize that I am not even trying to be subtle with my last sentence?

@ kison: I think you would do us a great service to be a bit more active right now... Maybe vote someone...

For Now I will

Vote: ChronX

I don't like how you reacted to me. If you had simply listed your reasons and left it at that I would have probably hammered Guard by now. But no, you suddenly got an attitude because I was "Trying to promote discussion."

Elias_the_thief · Post Post #634 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:16 pm

Deadline is in nine days, at 8 PM, EST. As a reminder, the player with the most votes when deadline hits (minimum of half the normal number to lynch) will be lynched. In the event of a tie, the player who had the highest number of votes for the longest.

Korlash · Post Post #635 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:32 pm

Uh huh... so... Better to lynch then let the mafia win by the deadline kill... Guess that means there is only one thing to do...

Unvote:, Vote: ChronX

Man... That didn't solve anything... Looks like you other town will have to come to your senses here...

*Rolls eyes*

Guardian · Post Post #636 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:41 pm

Korlash, I'm just as happy lynching ChronX, but you *do* realize that the only person ChronX can be scum with is Jenter, right?

Guardian · Post Post #637 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:51 pm

Kison wrote:You're doing a good job trying to make me look overly innocent. You don't need to try if you're town, and that is yet another reason I am leaning towards hammering you.

I don't even understand this. You want to lynch me because I'm defending you? It makes perfect sense for me to defend you as town. Most everyone is trying to paint me-you as a scum pairing, when I know it is Jenter/ChronX -- I'd like to get us both out of that picture and into lynching them!

Kison wrote:If Jenter is lynched and is the scum, then I am definitely not his partner. If I was, then you would be dead and this game would be over. That's a fact. Has nothing to do with my previous play throughout the entire game, which you annoyingly keep focusing on. So my question is, why are you displaying so much focus on my innocence?

Because people keep trying to lynch me as your partner.

Kison wrote:By default I am already one of the top lynch candidates tomorrow if you wind up being scum, and you showing obvious favoritism for me for things
that should no longer matter from your perspective as town
simply worsens my standing.

Again, untrue. It is pro-town for me to convince Fonz and Korlash that me-you pairing is unlikely.

Kison wrote:
Guardian wrote:
Kison wrote:The bad news is that no-one lynches Kison and gets away with it!
If I didn't know better, from you not hammering me, I would think you were scum from that!
Why?

Because it is indicative of a survivor/retributive mentality. If I didn't know you were town, I'd think that might be reflective of your state of mind re: this game...

Kison wrote:Also, you got a problem with my interrogation? Would you rather I skip it?

I'd rather you come to some conclusions. All your questions seem rather tangential. Of course I don't want you to skip it.........

Guardian · Post Post #638 (ISO) » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:52 pm

Jenter wrote:Truth. Wow. A word.

All I was doing was pointing out that your "argument"/"reason for voting me" was no more than an assertion, with no evidence.

Jenter wrote:You've lost me here. explain please? I have claimed mason, everybody else has claimed, I am uncountered so I must from EVERYONE'S pov be the other mason. We KNOW the role exists. Fonz has a claim backed up by correct investigations and evidence. There are townies in this game, so we know that townie is a plausible claim. Tracker has no background, was claimed before anything else happened pretty much (but notably after Fonz posted his result for the night), and the town has no evidence you are telling the truth.

You must be the other mason -- but it is not at all confirmed that you are town -- as I have evidence that you are scum.

Fonz has a claim backed up by investigations. From your POV, he could be scum with me. Nice buddying though?

No townie is confirmed, and to assert that is laughable.

Come to my claim -- yeah, I didn't fully interpret my results -- but from soon after I replaced in I tried to leave a hint that I was in fact a tracker. You have ZERO logical reason to believe that my claim is less true than anyone else's, other than the fact that I tracked you to the dead doctor. Besides you and ChronX, who my role/results condemn to be scum, no other player has any legitimate reason to think my role is any less plausible than any other.

ChronX · Post Post #639 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:00 am

Korlash wrote:Uh huh... so... Better to lynch then let the mafia win by the deadline kill... Guess that means there is only one thing to do...

Unvote:, Vote: ChronX

Man... That didn't solve anything... Looks like you other town will have to come to your senses here...

*Rolls eyes*

This is hilarious. I guess when/if Guardian comes up regular mafia or at least not investigation immune, you have made the next day easier for everyone. Really transparent job bussing with that sunrise vote there Korlash. Really transparent job by your scum buddy trying to clear you with his made up results about the mafia roleblocker roleblocking you.

ChronX · Post Post #640 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:00 am

Oh, ps, you forgot "OMGUS" when you voted me.

Korlash · Post Post #641 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:24 am

... moichido?

seriously... you need to stop over reacting so much... you want to call my vote OMGUS go ahead, cause you do suck because you seem like scum.

Guard wrote:Korlash, I'm just as happy lynching ChronX, but you *do* realize that the only person ChronX can be scum with is Jenter, right?

Of course I do. But like I said, I would really like new discussion today and I am getting somewhere with ChronX. (Or I think so at least) Plus I can see what you and Kison are doing as busing so I have not totally counted you two out yet. I don't want to put Jenter too much on the spot just yet.

ChronX · Post Post #642 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:58 am

Where, exactly, are you getting with me? You have invented a case based on misquoting me. In my post RE-explaining my case on Guardian (which, in hindsight, I now understand was a scummy ploy by you), I quote Fonz, who states in one nice neat sentence the basis for anyone to doubt Guardian's claim. I have been expressing a certain amount of skepticism about his claim all along...for example:

ChronX wrote:If Guardian is fake claiming and is mafia, then Korlash is the other mafia (note that in Guardian's claim, Bookitty targetted TCS which is now Korlash).

I brought this same fact up again later after he was bussing, un i mean, trying to get you lynched.

My case doesn't rest on what Fonz said because Fonz said it, I've been saying the same thing all along.

Guardian=lying caught scum. He has flung suspicion all over everyone else...if I point that out and mention that Kison has also noticed that, does that make another point in my case depend on what someone else said? Uh oh, now my case on Guardian is 1/2 based on what other people have noticed....*tremble*...except that I've been saying the same things. Because they are obvious, and obviously scummy.

The fact is, everyone is tainted with WIFOM from the way Guardian has played today. But your play makes you stand out as the most obvious buddy of him. If he turns out to be Godfather making it unlikely that you are also investigation immune and the innocent on you is real, I will be very surprised and owe you an apology. You seem to feel the same way about me so maybe this is town on town crime and you should focus your attention back on the source of it, scum-Guardian.

Jenter Brolincani · Post Post #643 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:35 am

ChronX, your and Korlashes cases against each other are both pretty rubbish.

From my POV you're btoh town, and we NEED to lynch scum. As in Guardian.

Guard wrote:
Korlash, I'm just as happy lynching ChronX, but you *do* realize that the only person ChronX can be scum with is Jenter, right?

That was just pure desperation.

ChronX · Post Post #644 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:35 am

Yeah, now that I've cooled down a couple hours after reading his post and writing mine, I agree. My last couple of sentences indicate I was already heading that way. When Guardian comes up Mafia, the remaining 4 of us will have to be very careful how we analyze anything that was generated as a result of the lies and disinformation Guardian has been spreading. Its important that we all realize this is another example of Guardian's scumminess, how he is infecting the rest of the town with suspcicion of each other when he has been plenty suspicious.

Korlash · Post Post #645 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:12 pm

Well if it makes you feel any better I really don't find you at all scummy for anything you have said about Guard... i think your scummy cause you basically said I was dumb for wanting to get more discussion instead of just rolling a dice and hammering Guard. (My own words)

Then your reaction seemed a bit off. but I have come to realize it is many a player's play style that i have to learn to deal with.

For now I think I'll leave it alone until we hear from Fonz...

Elias_the_thief · Post Post #646 (ISO) » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:24 pm

I will be out of town until sunday. Do me a favor and shut up if a lynch occurs, as I will be unable to lock the thread.

The Fonz · Post Post #647 (ISO) » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:45 am

Guardian wrote:Re: that.

Kison really hasn't done anything scummy all game. And everyone is saying I must be scum -- with him. Think about that. I think Kison is objectively very likely to be town.

My subjective opinion is that Kison is objectively very likely...

Kison also really doesn't make sense, he has played really townlike, and is v. unlikely to be scum.

Explain why.

Seriously, predicating your attack on me with Kison being scum is ludicrous. Kison has had so many opportunities in this game to support easy lynches, and hasn't. Really, Fonz/Korlash, if you think I am a good lynch because you think it is me-Kison, think again. That doesn't even make sense.

AS I believe has been addressed, the issue isn't 'Kison must be scum' it's 'Guardian is scum because of his claim, and the inconsistencies in it, etc, and from certain people's perspectives he must be Guardian's buddy.'

Sure, Jenter or ChronX could be scum with me. But that isn't the case. Why would I attack them?

WIFOM, and you know it.

Me not interpreting my results was very regrettable. Sorry.

Your not interpreting your results, if town, is not regrettable, but UNFORGIVABLE. When I replace in as an investigative role, the VERY FIRST thing I do is look at my predecessor's results, see if the investigatees are still alive, and if specifically tracker, who they targetted, and what can be gleaned from that. Instead, you came in, and in your first post, attacked the very player your results should have suggested most likely to be town. Can you not see why that appears to be almost as strong evidence as possible that your claim is baloney?

But Fonz, honestly, your logic about why I wouldn't interpret them correctly as scum is bullshit. If I was scum, I'd be
more
careful to have results that make sense and also to interpret them carefully. I'd discuss them with the other mafia at night, and make sure that tracker was a good claim or whatever.

THAT'S bullshit. If it were true, scum would never mess up their fakeclaims. Which they do reasonably often.

Look, Guardian, this goes to the heart of why some people get pissed off with your playstyle. You claim at the point in the game when it makes most sense for scum to do so, your claim doesn't add up, and you act like it's almost inconceivable that people could possibly disbelieve you. Then you seem to throw any old BS argument against the fan, in the hope one will stick.

With regard to Guardian/Jenter's claims and game balance:

Goon-RB-Scum Mason vs Cop/Doc/Tracker is reasonably balanced.
Goon-RB-GF vs Cop/Masons/Doc is also balanced.

So we can't make any assumptions about who is scum from game balance. What I would say is there is far more chance of GF if Guardian is scum than if Jenter is.

KorlasH: I really don't understand your ChronX vote. We KNOW one of Guardian and JB is scum, and we're almost certainly at LYLo. Looking at ANYTHING else right now can only be seen as an attempt to confuse the town.

Also, a big f-you to whoever requested prodding me whilst I was on V/LA.

Korlash · Post Post #648 (ISO) » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:15 am

Actually the vote is mostly to see how quick i coudl get Guard to switch his vote. Apparently he is not inclined to just jump on anyone else. Good use of my time though.

You still have not told me what specifically your case on Guard is...

ISO · Post Post #649 (ISO) » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:30 am

Participate more? I have been!

As for voting, you know that I'm leaning towards Guardian, so why are you rushing me when you yourself have not made up your mind, Korlash?

Chronx : Why do you not want more discussion?

Guardian wrote:I don't even understand this. You want to lynch me because I'm defending you? It makes perfect sense for me to defend you as town. Most everyone is trying to paint me-you as a scum pairing, when I know it is Jenter/ChronX -- I'd like to get us both out of that picture and into lynching them!

You're defending me on points that will be irrelevant when they matter. Also, Guardian, from everyone's perspective, I am hardly your only potential partner. So clearing me does NOT clear you - so don't use me as your shield.

Guardian wrote:Because it is indicative of a survivor/retributive mentality. If I didn't know you were town, I'd think that might be reflective of your state of mind re: this game...

Get a sense of humor, bub!

Kison wrote:
ChronX wrote:
Kison wrote:Uhh, if Guardian "flips" town, I do believe we enter into the stage of the game known as "Game Over".

More later.
I said that in the part where I said, "we lose". Of course, if you aren't town, you wouldn't understand the "we" part.
If I was scum and Guardian was town, why is this game not over yet?

Still no response to this !

I'll probably vote Guardian within the next day or two, as I think his defense is lacking significantly :

1) I don't follow the logic behind investigating Jenter, but this is rather minor.

2) I don't like how he's trying to make it sound like clearing me clears him.

3) I don't like how he pushed for Korlash despite his Tracker claim reasonably clearing him.

4) I find scum-town mason unlikely, though not impossible - but I never even bought the case on Jenter to begin with. I trust my gut and it's served me decently well so far !

So for those of you telling me I shouldn't be asking questions, I say silence!