Mini 1687: Refraction Mafia (WINNER!)

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Mathdino

[Lapsa]

[Lapsa]

I like my Lapsa vote because Lapsa and tex were last two to confirm, delaying game start and giving scum more time to talk before game start. I didn't see who was the third to last to confirm, because the game starts when 11 of 13 confirm, but I did see tex and Lapsa were the last two.

I blame Aeronaut's vague instructions:

Please confirm with your role, alignment, and favorite ice cream flavor!

never did confirm and this insulting entanglement is why I never will

[Lapsa]

Lapsa needs to give thoughts on posts that don't contain his name.

vanilla tastes best

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Lapsa

why are you voting me?

[Lapsa]

Go Lapsa!

[Lapsa]

Lapsa, be a bud and vote Abuse with me.

VOTE: Abuse

[Lapsa]

yes

[Lapsa]

.

[Lapsa]

Will try read up at some point tonight.

[Lapsa]

You are right that I was saying fro99er’s towniness or lack there of would be obvious to everyone, not just me.
You are understanding my words correctly.
Now look for motivation behind my words and what wincon those words are benefitting.

Hint: it’s the wincon that wants to reduce mislynches, not keep the mislynch pool as full as possible.

as a member with bigger join date - I command you to drop 'froggy is supertown' subject

[Lapsa]

@Aeronaut vote count looks like crap with mafBlack theme

[Lapsa]

I'm calling BS on this. If you were the sort of person to research Frogger why would you not research Lapsa? You're scum who is faking his work.

yeah, dino - vote somebody else

[Lapsa]

Kitty wrote me pm`s

[Lapsa]

Really???

mad skills

and please don't do 'will post tonight' fillers anymore. hate them

And?

and that catches your point of interest

[Lapsa]

#224 makes sense. particularly point #2

Thor, don't be shy - it's ok not having an opinion

i will definitely forgive you

[Lapsa]

I'm also thinking that between the wagons on Math and Lapsa there's probably scum somewhere. Want to start with Lapsa since I feel more like he's town.

cheesy verb and pronoun combo -> fence sitting

[Lapsa]

I can kind of see the stuff he’s saying if I squint but I can’t just sheep him because he’s smarter than me, that’s no way to play

try sheeping me, I'm smarter than BBT

[Lapsa]

unfortunately I am null on BBT

and why you on earth you consider sheeping nullread?

[Lapsa]

what in the everliving fuck is this post

lapsa please give READS instead of picking a random post that was like a rebuttal to a rebuttal to a rebuttal to a rebuttal to a rebuttal of an original point

[Lapsa]

Fun Fact: Lapsa still has not confirmed. What a scrub!

[Lapsa]

I know abuse. can read him with 99.99% precision - it's impossible to read him at this moment:

UNVOTE: Miller

[Lapsa]

That's not what I said. I said 99.9% that it was not a crumb, not that I can read you with such precision.

I wish Plotinus sheeped your humbleness

[Lapsa]

Also Lapsa seems more like a troll looking at it. If there is a town role with KP he is a pretty good target.
If he is town, the pushes on him give us little information since he is just lynch bait right now. If he is mafia, I wouldn't put it past mafia to bust him.

congratulations, you qualify as my first real scumread. gonna tunnel you for the rest of the game

VOTE: CB

official reason: you shouldn't base your votes on so little information

[Lapsa]

(Above is aimed at Lapsa, not you frogger.)

You quoted something about shooting you for not posting and scumread him for his vote, so...?

fuck that kind of questions

just finished decrypting:

It is not what you were doing. It was what you were not doing.

and this is how you greet me, Shinobi

[Lapsa]

What a towny mindset

Also disliking Lapsa more for the apparent misrep on CB.

judge for yourself, Chtulhu:

Spoiler: prevote

Plotinus:
I really don't like 48. Seems really noncommittal.
I mean he is one of two people you have played with and you don't feel comfortable giving a read.
What are we going to wait for day 5 to hear a read on all the people you haven't played with?

Spoiler: postvote

@CB re: 147 why is trying to move the game along and get out of RVS scummy? If he trying to move out of RVS and into the “pointless bickering about mafia theory” stage I’d agree with you but to me his post looked more like “let’s skip RVS and bickering about theory and move on to the let’s have serious reads now part here i’ll start”. Taking initiative is good.

Because it didn't feel like lets move the game foward allow me to apply pressure and get some reads from the reactions. It felt more like he was announcing he was going to end RVS and put out weak read to appear like he is moving the game forward.

You are right that I was saying fro99er’s towniness or lack there of would be obvious to everyone, not just me. You are understanding my words correctly. Now look for motivation behind my words and what wincon those words are benefitting. Hint: it’s the wincon that wants to reduce mislynches, not keep the mislynch pool as full as possible.

I still don't understand how you saying that had any effect on the game state.

You make a lot of pushes in this wall, against mathdino, me, lapsa, abuse, and zoro. I’m not really sure why you voted me at the end of it, because the parts directed at me didn’t seem stronger than the parts directed at anyone else. (huh, mathdino counted 6. now i’m wondering who i missed). Anyway, seconding the request for a readslist from you.

This is tentative as I have only skimmed the last couple of pages though. I will try to go through ISO tonight:
Town: Frogger, Texcat
Scum Lean: Math, Abuse
Scum: Plot, Zoro

CB: I didn’t like his push on me and it felt like a misrep. I think CB is lynchhunting not scum hunting. His pushes on other people seem like low hanging fruit.

Why are the people I pushed on low hanging fruit?

seems really noncommittal to me

[Lapsa]

I don't get it?

am I supposed to know that?

[Lapsa]

Can you point to one of these posts? I don't recall seeing anything like a genuine, good thought.

lead us, Kitty. set the example

[Lapsa]

What's 3/12 if you make a typo and put 4s instead of 5s?

your date is huge, Dino. no need to humiliate us with your brilliance

[Lapsa]

I'm voting him so he gets off his ass. I'll unvote when he contributes.

Original vote was (and still is) for unstated pressure.

get off my lawn

[Lapsa]

Kitty, scratch that - makes little sense. missed toolenduso part

[Lapsa]

been reloading sniper rifle for past 3-4 hours

so here's a contribution:

VOTE: Mathdino

you've been warned multiple times and I'm sick of shielding your shit

Thor, you have a sheep for the rest of Day1

Peter Piper dump a pile of peppers in your throat
Wit` an alien probe

[Lapsa]

and please don't do 'will post tonight' fillers anymore. hate them

[Lapsa]

You think I care what you want?

I care about what I want

[Lapsa]

I do not think he's feigning confusion - I think he's feigning reading. I have said this directly multiple times. I have *never* said the confusion was false.

No, I did not. i said the confusion showed that he was faking stuff, and that I found the faking scummy, not the confusion.

Spoiler: contribution

Always liked a game where RVS is done before the 2nd page.

¹

UNVOTE: Frogger
VOTE: Frogger

I don't think either tex or lapse were online while the rest were, confirming happened in less than 12 hours idrc. If you wanna look at their post history you should, lemme know if you find anything incriminating.

²

Frogger why no vote? Also, reads?

Plotinus, reads on Frogger so far then?

Froggers over defencive response is kinda reinforcing my read right now considering he just made a point that his scumhunting will show he's town, not his meta.

On a side note, I don't understand who Thor and tool are referring to so someone should clarify their sentences...

On another sidenote, screw Everton.

Wouldn't that be a reason

not

to vote him? Sympathy...? Whatever.

Anyway are you just voting whoever or are you purposefully voting with me?

Math, why did you choose Plot as opposed to any of the players who were voting you?

Frogger why no vote? Also, reads?

Plotinus, reads on Frogger so far then?

Froggers over defencive response is kinda reinforcing my read right now considering he just made a point that his scumhunting will show he's town, not his meta.

You're trying too hard here. I'm surprised Fro99er even responded with reads, you would have got 'lol, page 2' from me.

Since when is being defensive a scum tell? What is the problem with the scum hunting comment?

1. Not sure I understand. Most of the people voting me seemed to pretty clearly be wagoning, and I wasn't sure about Plot, and I figure asking questions in RVS is better than twiddling your thumbs until someone else does.
2. I feel as if continuing to restate my case against Frogger will give people the impression that I'm still scumreading him, so I'm going to assume people are reading my 158 and won't misunderstand me.
Idea is that Frogger responded to accusations by [29] claiming that his scumhunting will show that he's town...

and then proceeded to make a bunch of overdefencive posts that contain 0 scumhunting and all defence

³

. By his self-meta, I took that to be very non-townish.

29, 33, and 35 were the ones I was referring to as defencive.

38 I didn't see as particularly townish scumhunting

⁴

in the first place since it was just the usual "last to confirm, must be scum, oh wait never mind they weren't online" thing that one person always does in these games.

I didn't respond because I told you I was scumreading you for not scumhunting and then you scumhunted

⁵

. What I wanted to see was how genuine it was and to work with you anyway despite being a scumread. Treat everyone as if they're town when you're talking to them, treat everyone as could-be-scum when you're talking ABOUT them.

WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT. Every single time someone asks me about my Frogger read they end up being like OH WOW HIS REASONS ARE BULLSHIT, MUST BE SCUM, except I'm not still touting those arguments 9 pages into the game, I have updated reads. We're having a slapfight over a damn page 2 read in which

'scummy' just means 'more scummy in the less than 10 posts they've made than everyone else is'.

⁶

fuck.

Edit: Whatever, keeping this post for posterity.

1

goes against 6th point

2

why play along such a shit scumhunting technique? was there opportunity to somehow trap Frogger? no one else bothered

3

goes against 4th point. "0 scumhunting" != "not particularly townish scumhunting". 5th point also implies presence of scumhunting

4

^ see 3rd

5

you clearly did respond. and 38 comes before 42's "Frogger why no vote? Also, reads?". i can't find any call to scumhunt prior that

6

^ see 1st

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE: Lapsa
VOTE: CB

got stuff to do but there's that, i'll keep my word

will get back to this game tonight

fyi: that's too late for me

and please don't do 'will post tonight' fillers anymore. hate them

[Lapsa]

i perceive your last post to be the first one that shows me that you're invested in putting effort into this game

which was #327

cool scumhunting, but ignores fact that coloring alone for #325 took me like half an hour

[Lapsa]

I also found myself getting scummy vibes from CB's catch-up post where he voted for plot

seconded

What I *do* find strange though, is that that's the only thing you choose to hang a read on.

-CB's reason for voting plot: #147 (first post) for non-opinion on frogger and for voting lapsa for the vt crumb thing.

Also Lapsa seems more like a troll looking at it. If there is a town role with KP he is a pretty good target.
If he is town, the pushes on him give us little information since he is just lynch bait

right now

. If he is mafia, I wouldn't put it past mafia to bust him.

that's my problem, Ctulhu.

CB shouldn't call my ice cream flavor choice as little informative, call vighit on me yet base his vote because of it at the same time

unless he can show how my presence in this game has degradated to cheap lynch bait till #263 ofc

[Lapsa]

will get back to this game tonight

tonight is ongoing/over

do something. get off your ass - we can't get a read on you

[Lapsa]

learn to quote, abuse

Plotinus commenting post he's currently writing makes no sense

[Lapsa]

much appreciated, buttwipe

[Lapsa]

Aero, I like this one:

[Lapsa]

I thought I was the only one who thought the Math wagon looked terrible.
\o/

that might very well be the case. even Dino himself hasn't said anything like that yet

[Lapsa]

Shinobi, what's so terrible about it?

[Lapsa]

CD's jump onto it was pretty weak.
Toffee isn't even reading the game and is sitting on it, though I'm not sure that's scummy at all.

meh... screw those guys. doesn't hinder with case itself

[Lapsa]

Why is abuse absent from this list? You only addressed the first two people I talked about.

good catch, my bad: screw abuse

read #372 incorrectly - mixed up meaning of Thor's case with meaning of Dino's wagon

rushed forward wanting to clarify that and made mistake that can be seen as association tell

I think I read that as unrelated to wagon. as if you were saying that you are sorting out general read on him not just his presence on wagon

why did you put abuse in separate paragraph? seems that you ain't sure about Toffee either

is there anything that bothers you about my interaction with abuse?

[Lapsa]

What you're missing is that voting Frogger was intended as an early scumread vote to apply pressure and see what happens, get a read. The vote on Lapsa was specifically intended to get him to start posting and then policy him if he didn't (I didn't expect that to actually happen). A vote for weird writing won't make the guy stop writing funnily, but a vote for not posting may make a guy start posting. Does that make sense?

I wanted the anti-townness to stop REGARDLESS of Lapsa's alignment, while I had no investment in Frogger changing his posting style. So I put little effort into a meta dive to determine his alignment because I'm better at reading people than I am at meta diving.

⁷

And it looks like other people provided meta information without me.

On the latter, yeah I agree (I'm assuming you mean 'scummy' instead of 'scum'?). To further clarify, I think to me it would be incredibly bad if I were still reading Frogger SOLELY on that entrance post even though we're 16 pages in with tons of other info, and Frogger seemed to think for a second that was what I was doing. I stand by the original vote as a p1&2 best possible vote under the circumstances.

7

seems like Abelian group to me. no matter how you put it I end up with

"Frogger's happy writing style is better reason to check meta than Lapsa being anti-town"

Which facts does he strategically get wrong to move the scum win con forwards?

The Frogger meta - as I've said.

Beg pardon? I can see how you might not agree with what I said but I'd very much hesitate to call it wrong. I said it above but in case you skimmed that,

meta is a tool, not a weapon

⁸

. That is, it should support and not work against what I'm trying to point out. The SOLE reason I did the meta was to preemptively make sure/show that the statement "that's just his playstyle, bad reason to vote" is false.

That vote was because of a weird-ass post. Meta supports this just by saying he doesn't constantly make weird-ass posts like that. Mk?

8

is saying "x = scum because meta" more "using meta as a weapon" than scum pushing mislynch via "x = anti-town hence don't care about meta -> policy lynch" ?

1. I did NOT vote Frogger for meta. I decided to vote him, did a meta check to make sure it wasn't a shitty "voting for playstyle" vote, and since I didn't see anything overly similar to his first post, I went and voted him.

I basically only confidently use meta when I'm afraid that the guy I'm voting always does the shit he does

⁹

. If not, then the meta is now irrelevant. Irrelevant to the fact that I just didn't like his post.

9

does this imply you were not afraid of me being anti-town?

# can't help but think that you are still stuck in RVS. is that your meta - being frozen in RVS? does that explain Dinosaur in your user picture?

[Lapsa]

@CD: Will explain when I have more time.

@Lapsa:
7. That's probably because that statement is precisely what I believe. If Thor and I are unwilling to agree on that, sure, but I feel I've more than adequately explained WHY I believe that.
8. I don't really understand what you're trying to say here, sorry.
9. I don't really understand again, but going off of what I think you're saying: I wasn't afraid that you always pull anti-town shit in other games because regardless of your alignment I wanted you to stop. You can actually see in my texcat vote way back that I was asking you to give thoughts, and you responded without thoughts, so I voted you. Pressure voting, not lynch voting.

Also don't understand the frozen in RVS thing.

Sorry.

no wonder you appear confused - trying to defend yourself without ever considering that you might appear scum

Update: Lapsa is now very squarely in my strong townreads list, consisting of {Zor, Plot, Frogger, Lapsa}.

that's also too late - too mainstream

[Lapsa]

no wonder you appear confused - trying to defend yourself without ever considering that you might appear scum

Why would I be concerned about appearing scum? I'm trying to answer your concerns as best I can and move on to my own scum hunting.
/phoneposting

giving out strong townread on me without properly understanding me doesn't bother you?

[Lapsa]

CB shouldn't call my ice cream flavor choice as little informative, call vighit on me yet base his vote because of it at the same time

unless he can show how my presence in this game has degradated to cheap lynch bait till #263 ofc

Your shit post inducing a scummy push don't get you town points.

People don't need to change their posting for me to reevaluate on them.

i don't really need your town points - they won't change the fact that your vote is based on this induced scummy push

and that doesn't add up with me being completely useless

[Lapsa]

A little lost currently after initial skim of the last few pages.

@Thor, why the full support of a counterwagon? This concerns me quite a bit.

signing up?

be sure to read thoroughly. things have changed quite a bit. not doing so might cost you dearly

[Lapsa]

what do you mean by "signing up" ?

willingly initiating wagon on yourself so there would be counterwagon to Dino's

[Lapsa]

What am I missing?

supposedly - reason for building a counterwagon and importance of it

[Lapsa]

fine by me, buttwipe

[Lapsa]

Being unintentionally useful one time, great....

Also you were just trolling no one is going to get a strong read on you and you would remain a question mark. It was more about the liability then usefulness.

as if you knew my intentions

[Lapsa]

Being unintentionally useful one time, great....

Also you were just trolling no one is going to get a strong read on you and you would remain a question mark. It was more about the liability then usefulness.

as if you knew my intentions

What were they?

exactly

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Zoronos

[Lapsa]

Zorn's lemon is bit out of reach for me

did understand why that's joke but ain't much funny since i don't breathe that stuff every day

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa: all puns are funny!

english ain't my native tongue hence my perception of puns is sharper. most of them just bores me

[Lapsa]

sick lazors

National drinking days! Can I immigrate there?

you are welcome!

[Lapsa]

Update: Lapsa is now very squarely in my strong townreads list, consisting of {Zor, Plot, Frogger, Lapsa}.

What? How is Lapsa a strong town read?

The point being that I still see you using other player's arguments multiple times as partial or whole justification for your votes. Which can reflect: A) Desire to get on the good side of the players you're following, B) Pre-planning to avoid responsibility for those arguments in the future, C) Difficulty developing fake reads, or D) All of the above.

Given this, why do you not have a problem with Lapsa using Thor's case to vote Math? (with some added colours)

you are doing something fairly similar, Toffee

no wonder you appear confused - trying to defend yourself without ever considering that you might appear scum

Why would I be concerned about appearing scum? I'm trying to answer your concerns as best I can and move on to my own scum hunting.
/phoneposting

giving out strong townread on me without properly understanding me doesn't bother you?

[Lapsa]

.

[Lapsa]

*excluding* Lapsa

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Thor665

off by one

[Lapsa]

Froggy frog, could you explain your vote on Thor?

[Lapsa]

Froggy frog, could you explain your vote on Thor?

Can you do the same?

because I dislike froggers vote and game was stalling. never flipped

VOTE: Zoronos

[Lapsa]

but how does me requesting he explain the read affect the lack of town paranoia in the read in any way at all?

babelfish throws an error. could you fix that sentence?

don't want to assume that you wrote it wrong intentionally

[Lapsa]

protown motivation behind pushing this narrative about zoronos

[Lapsa]

"how does me requesting he explain the read"

afaik should be "how does me requesting

him to

explain the read"

apology accepted, proceed with caution

[Lapsa]

I don't get it...you dislike Fro99er's vote so you joined the wagon he was pushing....???

Game isn't stalling. You are.

exactly

[Lapsa]

wouldn't call that wasting of time, Thor

[Lapsa]

Can I get some votes on Thor please?

If not, why not?

busy stalling

[Lapsa]

and this one, Aero:


Wrong Lens

W

i

l

l

d

o

L

a

p

s

a

!

[Lapsa]

.

[Lapsa]

what a bullshit, Zor

[Lapsa]

1 Mathdino

I want him lynched today

2* toolenduso

general vibe 32

3 CB

dislike delayed entrance

4 Bellaphant

5* Thor665

dislike Zor wagon

6 Shinobi

7* texcat

posts little, pressure from Shin, could be PR
dislike vote on tool and accusation for backing off 39

8 Plotinus

peculiar

9* Fro99er

or aggressive scumhunting

10 BlueBloodedToffee

liked Thor 1v1

11 abuse

RL friend, things I consider townslips

12 Lapsa

anti-town, gambiting, strange vote patterns, sheeping scumread

13* Zoronos

dislike Dino's defence

green

- town

red

- scum
* - more likely to change

[Lapsa]

what a bullshit, Zor

Elaborate?

meh. just bad reasoning by my book

[Lapsa]

that has to be most important thing

[Lapsa]

@bella ^

[Lapsa]

Votes should be consolidating.

VOTE: Dinosaur

[Lapsa]

Tool, I would appreciate your vote on Thor.

That is the most logical place for your vote.

that will cost you 1 scumread, tool

[Lapsa]

5* Thor665

dislike Zor wagon

13* Zoronos

dislike Dino's defence

You dislike Thor's wagon on Zor? But you're town-reading Thor? And until recently you were voting Zor and you still list him as scummy. I don't suppose you'd care to explain?

you wrote it down precisely as it is. unsure about last sentence

there's disconnection - I haven't found exact town thought train that leads to Zor wagon and makes perfect sense to me
that is my only reason for a scumread. going through every inch of building Zor wagon is still in my TODO list

I read this as vanilla claim:

I don't operate that way - I say what I'm on about, unless I'm a hidden Cop or something, then I'll be slightly stealthy about that and at least try to breadcrumb things even if I don't state them one shot at a time, but as far as just reads go, those will come outright in shotgun effect.

he's definitely able to fool us all but I have to admit that I've failed to catch scum vibe thus far

and I got some noteworthy experience reading him

I can't help but see Thor!town going all the way and sacrificing himself to harvest as much associative tells as possible

only time when he has freaked out in scum!Thor fashion on me was when I "wasted his time".
everything else I classify as fair judgement (except for Zor wagon as mentioned before)

[Lapsa]

That doesn't change just because Lapsa might have a harder time with the language, it's still clearly true

try mentioning language barrier once more and I will singlehandedly fuck this game for everybody by parking vote on you for the rest of the game

[Lapsa]

Votes should be consolidating.

VOTE: Dinosaur

J

u

s

t

c

o

n

f

i

r

m

i

n

g

,

t

h

i

s

v

o

t

e

i

s

f

o

r

M

a

t

h

d

i

n

o

,

c

o

r

r

e

c

t

?

yes

[Lapsa]

Here is your wagon of choice (with a solo vote on it) and the alternate top wagons.
Why are you not voting the red top wagon at this stage in time?
It lacks logic.
Functionally - you're voting me by voting Mathdino.

because I think Dino is scum and ain't that sure about Zor or even you

will go through Zor wagon in details till deadline and I might end up jumping there

[Lapsa]

serious

[Lapsa]

Here is your wagon of choice (with a solo vote on it) and the alternate top wagons.
Why are you not voting the red top wagon at this stage in time?
It lacks logic.
Functionally - you're voting me by voting Mathdino.

Thor-3
Persivul-4
Tool-5, Zor-5

argument has become invalid. vote stays

[Lapsa]

What is Thor’s ISO all about
can’t figure any stances out
how do the thoughts in it go
I wish he’d tell me I dunno
dunno dunno dunno oh no

lol

[Lapsa]

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:3

[Lapsa]

[Lapsa]

Short cases on Thor Tool and Bella please I see nothing else taking off.

VOTE: unvote

why you find Bella lynch probable and Persivul lynch improbable?

[Lapsa]

no, tool. I don't scumread you. you have only got townier in my eyes

I don't want Thor neither tool lynch

not a fan of lynching Bella. and I don't understand reasoning why Zor is pushing that wagon for quite awhile

since Zor wagon has been ruined - I'm stuck on Dino/Persivul slot. vote stays

[Lapsa]

nevermind persivul’s wagon has almost entirely disintegrated by now. he’s a good vote tomorrow. thor is a good vote today.

nah. that's just a flesh wound

[Lapsa]

Lapsa, we have 18.55 hours until deadline. people need to get off their vanity wagons and consolidate. not doing so is antitown.

i refuse to vote for my townreads even if that costs no-lynch

if that still rings vanity bells for you then nothing will convince you that I find you wrong

[Lapsa]

I agree about not voting town reads, I wouldn’t do that either. I guess you don’t have any wagonable null reads?

not a fan of null reads as a kind.
"nulls" are most interesting scumhunting area so I like forcing myself to go in extremes when attaching reads

at the moment - I want to lynch Dino/Pers slot and I could compromise on lynching Zor

ain't participating in anything else unless something really cool pops up

I don't find flashwagon carousel cool. with shallow analysis bussing becomes too easy and meaning gets entirely disintegrated

[Lapsa]

Aero, you gonna love this one!

[Lapsa]

Titus, you have ignored my question

[Lapsa]

you are still ignoring me, Titus

[Lapsa]

and therefore I don't want you to hammer yet

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

scratch that, Titus. you didn't ignore me. but your answer makes little sense:

Short cases on Thor Tool and Bella please I see nothing else taking off.

VOTE: unvote

why you find Bella lynch probable and Persivul lynch improbable?

Not enough bodies were on the wagons at the time.

at the time there were equal count of bodies on both wagons - Zor on Bella and Lapsa on Persivul:

Persivul

-

Lapsa

(L-6)

Bellaphant -

Zoronos

(L-6)

that's the reason I asked it and you provided shit answer

[Lapsa]

Lapsa we are not near hammer either.

then why da hell you don't vote instead of vowing hammer?

[Lapsa]

And would anybody be interested in a Shinobi lynch? Because that would be p cool.

Not at all

Bella?

VOTE: Persivul

[Lapsa]

Thor, how many shots do you have.

If it's less than on, then my claim is a lie.
If it's only one - then I would lie about that to mess with scum.
If it's more than one then it doesn't matter till later.

Why are you asking me this as though it matters in any way at all?
I refuse to answer - react appropriately.

that question bothers me as well

Spoiler: Titus entrance screams scum

scratch that, Titus. you didn't ignore me. but your answer makes little sense:

Short cases on Thor Tool and Bella please I see nothing else taking off.

VOTE: unvote

why you find Bella lynch probable and Persivul lynch improbable?

Not enough bodies were on the wagons at the time.

at the time there were equal count of bodies on both wagons - Zor on Bella and Lapsa on Persivul:

Persivul

-

Lapsa

(L-6)

Bellaphant -

Zoronos

(L-6)

that's the reason I asked it and you provided shit answer

@Lapsa, One body on each wagon. Less than 12 hours till deadline. Yes, not enough bodies on wagons.

then why da hell you saw Bella wagon taking off?

abuse townslips have become fairly irrelevant compared to this

are you trying to build your reads in last seconds without reading a thing, Titus?

[Lapsa]

Lapsa...let's flashwagon Titus.

Keep voting Titus people

I don't find flashwagon carousel cool. with shallow analysis bussing becomes too easy and meaning gets entirely disintegrated

So much this. A flash-wagon now is perfect for scum to throw their votes on any wagon they like and kill any chance of VCA.
I have been pushing for people to consolidate their votes since we had 4 days 18 hours left and nobody gave a shit.

Thor you appear to be confusing play-style with meta.

They are two separate things.

VOTE: Titus

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa, Yup. I never read on replacing in.

this is 3rd time I see you replacing in. in fact - invited you in current game. you know I know that's untrue

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa, Yup. I never read on replacing in.

this is 3rd time I see you replacing in. in fact - invited you in current game. you know I know that's untrue

You are scum or a moron. I said this in the last game where I thought you were scum and was wrong. Everyone knows this about me.

finally a town vibe

she didn't read previous game much indeed. just VCA

[Lapsa]

@Titus, you seem to believe/not believe Plot's claim at the same time. Can you clarify?

[Lapsa]

I would like to encourage everyone reading how replaced cop!Titus played in previous game

[Lapsa]

anyway - that's town Titus for me

Lapsa, vote Frogger with me.

I might, won't rush

Lapsa, vote Titus with me

unlikely


Zor, parse this swamp and speak to us

[Lapsa]

It's fine Pers. Titus is scum so it's all good.

it is not

[Lapsa]

also - abuse called me buttwipe on skype, speaking about things unrelated to mafia

i saw that as reaction test to me sheeping Thor

[Lapsa]

….how the fuck is that a

town

slip, lapsa?

main reason is - scum abuse wouldn't bother probing me

[Lapsa]

What the f*** is this.

11 abuse

RL friend, things I consider townslips

frog, did you also just replaced in?

[Lapsa]

This 100% should never happen.

true

[Lapsa]

Lapsa...you should not have said that

true

did you went back and read Titus game I posted?

[Lapsa]

That's really convoluted tbh.
It doesn't really outweigh the whole claiming situation at all either.

and that explains my pressure on Titus till #1382

[Lapsa]

I'm really sorry, Aero. it just happens so that this game is too awesome

[Lapsa]

#1462 O_O

[Lapsa]

Titus, the reason everyone is saying your frogger read makes no sense is because

it makes no sense to anyone who has read the thread

. you haven’t read the thread.
you don’t. it’s not your thing. fine. you have your own thing that you’re good at.

I wasn’t crumbing protective specifically (except surreptitiously to frogger once i knew i could trust him and i thought i could do it in a way others wouldn’t notice), I was crumbing generically because I’M NOT AS STUPID AS YOU THINK I AM

makes sense to me:

Lapsa, vote Frogger with me.

I might, won't rush

[Lapsa]

I don't get the confusion over Plot's notes either. It's pretty easy stuff to follow.

nah. fine by me. didn't imply anything scum - just impresses me every time

[Lapsa]

Lapsa bringing up abuse's townslip.

Oh, I see.

I don't see how what Abuse said implies he is town. For all we know, and this is WIFOM, he was manipulating town!Lapsa outside of thread.

There are too many scenario's to consider that a town-slip.

you are correct. it doesn't imply town. we should leave it at that

thing is - my aim was to slow down Titus lynch

[Lapsa]

Plot, you are in same "too slow" bin as Bella. I assure you - your lynch won't happen today. night kill seems probable though

post carefully and more importantly - vote carefully

[Lapsa]

my current scumreads:

Frog Shin Pers

VOTE: Fro99er

[Lapsa]

CB is also a good candidate to vote.

Plots numbers are great.

yeah. can be used to substantiate anything

[Lapsa]

A mafia died, so we have a SK, werewolf, or vigilante. Are there other possibilities?
Getting rid of a neighborizer is a big win. I did a quick search on infrared but can't find it. What does this mean?

We have a claimed cop. Let's see if he got anything.

very scumhunt, much amaze

[Lapsa]

I claimed limited sot doc unaware of Plot's crumbs. Yet, it would reveal many things.

First, which wagons were town driven. Town unvote PR claims instinctively even shitty like Thor's. My wagon was not unvoted.

Second, my wagon was started in retaliation for calling Shinobi/Plot and Frogger scum. The game stalled to that point, with wagons short being ruled impossible. I gather a string of votes.

Third, Frogger wants to lynch doctor claims despite doctors ensuring Thor lives to give guilty results on those he checks. He does not want Thor to live. Scum have to shoot doctor claims, which is why I fake claimed.

Third, the scums highlight Plot ccing which is extremely anti town.

GG. Frogger is scum. It's as good as a guilty.

Frogger and Shinobi are 100% scum.

Frogger is scum from chainfish and every post on these pages.

Shinobi is also obviously scum.

Wagon springs up when I finger scum. Gg.

They try to make it complicated but it really is simple.

Shinobi scum.

I finger Frogger as scum. They all say Titus makes no sense. Flashwagon. Most town don't feel threatened by it makes no sense. They ask a question. When I highlight Plot/Shinobi possible distancing. He doubles down.

His response to my "claim" was to immediately rolefish Plot, who was crumbing doctor. (WHY?)

He did not want Plot to vote him, so making me look like Looney tunes is necessary.

I never get flashwagoned at deadline for providing reads alone.

Now, he is calling Frogger and Shinobi cases "storylines". Sorry but the truth is a storyline.

The story goes Frogger and Shinobi scum. Titus town.

VOTE: Fro99er

[Lapsa]

i call bullshit on Persivul

he accuses Thor for not revealing investigation results, claims investigative role and doesn't reveal investigation results in any form himself

[Lapsa]

You finally make an intelligible post and completely fail.

i call bullshit on Persivul

he accuses Thor for not revealing investigation results, claims investigative role and doesn't reveal investigation results in any form himself

First, yes, I have revealed investigation results to some extent. It's apparent I've investigated frogger, and I've said he's highly unlikely to be mafia but could be SK.

Second, I said above that I'm willing to claim in full now if town thinks that's best. So far, those who have expressed an opinion think I should wait.

no, it's you that fails. instead of being transparent you weave bullshit webs accusing Thor for crimes you also commit

tinkering till it fits rhymes with scum. either you reveal or not. you have chosen slickest path which is enough for me not to believe you

[Lapsa]

i call bullshit on Persivul

he accuses Thor for not revealing investigation results, claims investigative role and doesn't reveal investigation results in any form himself

so why are you voting me?

because your face looks like beaten with a brick

[Lapsa]

Pers, I am kinda inclined not to wait for Thor. From the crmbing I am assuming you have something that connects Frogger to the BBT kill?

No, I did not mean to imply that. I'm going to wait for frogger to claim, then my info will corroborate if he's truthful.

plot twist - frogger ends up being truthful

[Lapsa]

godfather is my favorite ice cream flavor

[Lapsa]

Lapsa you can unvote me now

what did forbid me unvoting earlier?

[Lapsa]

godfather is my favorite ice cream flavor

As far as I can tell a godfather would still have a gun.

how unintelligible

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Thor

Full claim

Hey Fro99er....why are you voting Thor if you strongly suspect me

[Lapsa]

Uh, because he's pressuring for a full claim, as he said?

why would he pressure himself? I don't get it

[Lapsa]

We'll find scum on my wagon if I end up at L-2

unsure how that works but I'm ready for this

[Lapsa]

Aero, I haven't switched to mafiatigers yet

[Lapsa]

I can't think of a reason to hold back an investigation result but *shrug*.

Here's a reason - you didn't really do an investigation because you fakeclaimed.

wait, what did Zoronos claim?

[Lapsa]

I can't think of a reason to hold back an investigation result but *shrug*.

Here's a reason - you didn't really do an investigation because you fakeclaimed.

wait, what did Zoronos claim?

Scum

could you quote it?

[Lapsa]

awww, Thor. so sweet of you

[Lapsa]

I just don't think I've ever been in a game where town had two investigative roles like this

Really?

my previous game had town tracker and cop. cat fight between of those two ended up quite harmful

[Lapsa]

frog, could you quote where Zoronos have claimed scum, please? that notion confuses me a lot

[Lapsa]

Fro99er, you can unvote Zoronos now

[Lapsa]

why are you voting Zor?

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Persivul
VOTE: toolenduso
VOTE: Tere
VOTE: Bellaphant
VOTE: Thor665
VOTE: Shinobi
VOTE: texcat
VOTE: Lapsa
VOTE: Zoronos
VOTE: Fro99er

[Lapsa]

That was useful

true

[Lapsa]

vigilante is my favorite ice cream flavor

[Lapsa]

Zor, why did you claim scum? isn't that against your win con?

[Lapsa]

I claimed scum because I enjoy tormenting Frogger.
I'm sorry Lapsa, I know it's against our win con, but I had too.

who else has claimed scum?

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Zoronos

#1736 time travel hax0r

[Lapsa]

everything makes sense!

[Lapsa]

Can anyone give me a quick summary of the Shinobi case?

Shin is scum

[Lapsa]

everything makes sense!

Does it? Since you are the closest thing we have to conf-town, could you maybe give us a reads-list or something? I can't follow your vote progression.

where's my link?

[Lapsa]

I continue to believe that the MathDino / Pers slot is town. BBT worked to undermine my town read on that slot near EoD1, so the chances that he's with BBT are very low. The scum motivation to claim cop in a multiball are even lower.

I am less sure about Tere, but I don't think it's the right lynch today regardless.

Why not?

Why yes?

[Lapsa]

with claims - CB reads look bad
low profile Tere near deadline + Thor's case + something, whatever
bad quality showtime

L-1

VOTE: DullBellcows

[Lapsa]

I'm exceptional

[Lapsa]

That is a scumclaim to even doubt us now.

nah, I disagree on that one. I did doubt

reads:

shin
zor
thor
bella
tool
tex
frog

[Lapsa]

Lol Lapsa. We're conftown.

I doubt everything. yeah, at top

[Lapsa]

I think I'm leaning Tool as the other scum.

I'm afraid I can't follow you there, Thor

[Lapsa]

.

[Lapsa]

frog, who should i vote for?

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Thor665

[Lapsa]

Thor, how many shots your role has?

[Lapsa]

Cop out is copping and outside.

[Lapsa]

Should probably lynch Thor

that would be really really bad

[Lapsa]

I disagree, Zor:

627
921
782
123
321
1234
4321

[Lapsa]

vigilante is my favorite ice cream flavor

Hey Lapsa.
Was this a vig claim?

you wish

[Lapsa]

The take away here is that Thor is PoE lock scum if it's a 2+2 multiball.

The take away here is that your "Thor is PoE lock scum" reasoning is worth zero.

933 means little. Shin, Bella, associations with Thor are equally backed up with nothing.

[Lapsa]

The interactions I'm still trying to verify are whether or not Bella could be scum with Tool (gut says no, but I haven't found good post evidence) and whether or not Bella could be scum with Thor.

took you 8 minutes to figure out that one out. really impressive

[Lapsa]

I'm trying to rule things out, rather than specifically rule them in.

certainly doesn't look like so to me

*shrug* I missed it the first time around. If BBT was shot by a vig that massively simplifies the game.
It should have gone without saying yesterday, but if there is a vig and they shot BBT, they absolutely should claim.

fake ignorance

or appaling game state awareness that makes your megacombinatorics useless

or intentional backing away from megacombinatorics

[Lapsa]

The interactions I'm still trying to verify are whether or not Bella could be scum with Tool (gut says no, but I haven't found good post evidence) and whether or not Bella could be scum with Thor.

took you 8 minutes to figure out that one out. really impressive

Huh? I'm not understanding whatever you're trying to convey.

I'm speaking about your indecisiveness on Thor/Bella association that's not an obstacle to imply lockscum!Thor

Post #2316 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:03 am
Post #2313 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:52 am
--------------------------------------------------------------
11 minutes (l33t math skillz)

when will you release megacombinatorics complete edition?

[Lapsa]

appalling*

[Lapsa]

Hence why I asked Frogger about it yesterday.

lies

I'm not sure. I'm trying to collect and collate evidence.

[Lapsa]

scratch last one about lies

[Lapsa]

quoted what I meant to quote

why I'm not on your list?

[Lapsa]

Lapsa...wanna vote Zor?

no

[Lapsa]

VT

nominate yourself

[Lapsa]

Zor really had to work for his Thor confscum angle

Is my logic wrong? Where does it go off?
It's really frustrating to spend time putting something together and your response is to just hand wave away "He did a lot of things" without discussing the validity of any of it, at all.

your megacombinatorics are based on weak stuff like "X said we shouldn't vote for Y" hence X can't be teamed with Y

some associations lack any kind of argumentation

heck, I don't even buy this one:

Thor can't be with BBT. (D1 train push)

ending that mess with bold claim that Thor is lockscum makes it worse

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Lapsa]

Wasn't he confirmed not having a gun?

Shin, what did you try to accomplish there?

[Lapsa]

Like I think the only way Thor could be a town cop is if Lapsa is a serial killer.

this one. could you explain thought train bit more?

[Lapsa]

Wasn't he confirmed not having a gun?

Shin, what did you try to accomplish there?

I responded to Zor talking about frogger's day vigi.
Why?

why what? wtf?!!

[Lapsa]

Why did you bring it up, I meant.
You must have had a reason for asking about it, no?

which is - I didn't understand that part of conversation, yes?

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa - what is the case, in your mind, on Bella? I have him as townish.

getting paranoid?

[Lapsa]

I'll explain after ant man lapsa.

I'll also dig through the mini normal archives to see if I can find any games with two town investigative roles and only one scum faction.

I would like to encourage everyone reading how replaced cop!Titus played in previous game

I just don't think I've ever been in a game where town had two investigative roles like this

Really?

my previous game had town tracker and cop. cat fight between of those two ended up quite harmful

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa - what is the case, in your mind, on Bella? I have him as townish.

getting paranoid?

A bit - so it will help me to try and grok you some.
Especially if you're pushing a lynch on my favorite for town from amongst the unknowns.

derp

[Lapsa]

Thor, wanted to let you know that I'm quite ok lynching you.
your day4 entrance is buttfuck ugly

tool & tex - would like to coop closely with you two

[Lapsa]

Comfortably Numb

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Thor665



Shinobi, I want you to join me

[Lapsa]

Thor665 - Lapsa, Shinobi, Tool, Tex

^ I want today's lynch to look exactly like this

Shin, you are next on the line.
if you refuse to lynch Thor - make a stand with your vote

[Lapsa]

Thor, wanted to let you know that I'm quite ok lynching you.
your day4 entrance is buttSmurf ugly

Meh.

that's the Thor I recognize

tell me more how I'm godfather

[Lapsa]

If I thought for sure you were a godfather I'd be voting you - lackwit.

as usually - giving out just a tiny slice of information. just enough to be safe

nah, you are capable of much more. you have done shit this game

[Lapsa]

Like, what am I even supposed to explain to that question?
I have potential fear of you being a godfather. This fear is supported by you not playing in any way I can identify as townsided. I asked you to explain a read. I have admitted it is a paranoid fear. I have stated that I didn't want to really push it unless Tool flipped town.

Now I need to explain it to you?

Explain what?
I have explained it - there is nothing more to explain.
Learn to read.

keep your explanations to yourself. they are useless crap anyway, ugly face

[Lapsa]

What do you have?

assuming it's multiball...

town:

Tool, Lapsa, Tex

ball¹:

BBT

, Shinobi

ball²:

Thor, Bella

Scenario #1:

Shinobi

gets lynched

Scenario #2:

town

gets lynched

Shinobi

NK

ball² / town wins

!!!

Scenario #3:

Thor

or

Bella

gets lynched

anyone's game depending on NKs

Scenario #4:
no-lynch

anyone's game but ball² gains predominance

[Lapsa]

I'll admit that I'm still feeling Bella as my top lynch atm, though.

fine by me

VOTE: Bella

[Lapsa]

I'm glad we had this in-depth conversation of helpful. It was a trans formative experience.

[Lapsa]

[Lapsa]

[Lapsa]

Wait, what? Lapsa, assuming it IS multi-ball, and if you believe your latest POE, and I'm scum with Thor (which, I'm not) then lynching me is anti-town anyway: you'll have two killing factions going into night. We need to hit BBT's partner - who you believe is Shin - but instead you are gonna vote with Shin to kill the 'other scum' to enable scum to have two scum-kills tonight, instead of one. I don't get your train of thought here at all.

Weirdly, the youtube videos aren't helping. Why is there no follow-up to scenario 1?

are you Shinobi?

[Lapsa]

? You're literally gonna ignore anything I say this day-phase? Baller.

Anybody that's not lapsa gonna work out wtf he's doing, with me?

are you Shinobi?