Greater Idea Mafia (Endgame)

[West9]

don't have time to read throughly right now, and this is my first greater idea game so i'm a little bit confused about the whole "suspecting people because of discards" thing, so someone should tell me who to vote for and why

[West9]

boopidoop
Game 1: VT over Cop
Game 3: Mafia Fruit Vender over Innocent Child

VOTE: Ari because I'd expect townAri to stumble a lot more than he did after being accused of third party hunting. That response was smooth and I don't like it.

Is this how Mr. Elvis usually is or is he mad about something?

I don't really think it's third-party hunting if you vote for someone who is saying "I am third party," so this Lizard wagon confuses me.

[West9]

VOTE: Ari because I'd expect townAri to stumble a lot more than he did after being accused of third party hunting. That response was smooth and I don't like it.

Ari wasn't doing anything that even resembled third party hunting. Why would that quick accusation from Luna require anything more than what Ari responded with?

I'm not saying that Ari didn't give it the type of response that it deserved or anything like that, I just know Ari and townAri typically gives awkward responses to those type of accusations.

Also, shadow (or anyone else on the Lizard wagon) should explain to me why I'm wrong about this:

I don't really think it's third-party hunting if you vote for someone who is saying "I am third party," so this Lizard wagon confuses me.

[West9]

Look at her vote post, and you'll see.

Am I wrong for thinking that there's something different between "I think that this person is third-party and not scum, so we should lynch them" and "This person said he is third-party, so we should lynch them"? Because I saw Lizard's vote as being the second thing. Unless I'm missing something important in the part about the salulus?

[West9]

prodge

[West9]

Catching up, so I'm sorry if some of the stuff I'm addressing is old news

Hi west, any thoughts other then ari?
Botlane is probably scum

Since no one's told me why the Lizard wagon is good, I'm going to assume it sucks, but I'll wait to go after that Lizard gets here / is replaced.

Mr. Elvis consistently going "waaah no one is playing the game right" bothers me.

Meh, not too much. Just a general thing that I am decently suspicious of people who keep trying to discredit my scumhunting methods while townreading me.

An attitude of discrediting a townie's methods over focusing on scum doesn't sound like a town one to me.

Expect you should be scumhunting by reading and asking legit questions.

Not setup soec.

Its not scummy to say that.

I consider it scummy when it looks like people are more concerned about my stuff than they are scumhunting though.

Who exactly was doing this? I don't like you saying "it's scummy to say that my secret discard plan is a waste of town's time," so you should give names.
*reads a couple pages*
Ohhh okay. Were you only talking about Delann, or was there someone else?

So far I think I side with Greninja on this Delann wagon. Seems super paranoid.

Yea and the only case is that she probably would choose scum over BP.

Nope, read my ISO, read Hippy Love's ISO, read Davsto's ISO, our reasons aren't the same as TSO's.

In order:
"Titus is making excuses"
"Titus would probably choose scum over BP."
"Titus doesn't like my secret discard plan."
These aren't compelling reasons, and Hippy Love's and TSO's are actually the same. You're misrepresenting your own wagon.

Oh, okay, Delann claimed. Mmkay.

delenn is pretty much mislynch bait.

Nobody else want to acknowledge that?

Uh you mean like Greninja, who had been saying exactly that for pages at this point?
Also, why the Lizard unvote? And why not put that vote on someone else?

Also, if it's true, we should test it!

YESSSSS

LETS DO THISSSS

This whole time you've been going "Titus gets lynched a lot" and "what possible town role could Titus choose over BP?" so I'm wondering what's up with the continued push after the unlynchable claim.

VOTE: Firebringer
Ari being pretty smooth this game still pings my "Ari isn't usually this smooth as town" radar, but I think I like this more right now.

[West9]

this game has just enough know it all, devils advocate wagon pooh-poohers to make this game completely constipated and dysfunctional

r u subtweeting me

[West9]

Mr. Elvis consistently going "waaah no one is playing the game right" bothers me.

you are whining about me whining and that bothers me

THAT'S CALLED IRONY MOTHERF*CKERS

Eh, more coincidental than ironic, I'd say. Unless you were sarcastically saying that my "whining" bothered you.

actually (checks iso) I was getting a "criticizing the game while yelling a lot of nothing else" vibe from you, but you haven't made that type of criticism - "We sure as hell aren't hunting scum," etc. - in a while. What changed?

[West9]

Honest question: TSO, do you have another reason for suspecting Titus behind the main "she prioritizes survival over all else so she wouldn't pick any town role over bulletproof" thing? Because, I'm staring at posts like this:

If anything, the claim makes less than no sense from your point of view, since even if you are 1-shot Unlynchable, that in no way proves you're town, as there can be Alien variants of that, etc. It doesn't confirm you in any way when it resolves.

and I really can't help but think, "it'd make sense if they are town telling the truth, though" and I'm not sure why you're not at least acknowledging that idea.

[West9]

I'm proposing a lynch based on someone's apparent actions making no fucking sense with their

internal thought processes

, but I understand that this may be too cerebral a concept for many people.

this is getting silly

dude if you can read minds, you have to tell us, that's cheating.

[West9]

883 is so bad. You quote me once, don't even say its scummy. Then eventually vote me?

Crappy.

No,

you

are so bad. *giggles*

I thought it was bad that you were trying to be all "look at me, the only sane voice here!" when Greninja had been saying what you said for a long time. Also, I wanted to know why you unvoted Lizard without voting anyone else. I was kinda hoping you'd talk about it when you got back here.

Once I have a chance to look at the discards I will form my scum reads solely off of that for D1.

why tho

[West9]

I deliberately have done jacks hit so no one can blame us for being toxic. The only thing toxic is people repeatedly wagoning me in every game.

What a remarkable plan. Pick a role which prevents your lynch, then do zero scumhunting, or zero pro-town actions in general, or zero actions that might actually inhibit the town from lynching you.

I see you have thought this through quite clearly.

this is maybe the first point to come out of the Delenn wagon that i've found interesting and compelling.

Delenn: is the kthxbye vote still just because of the hydra dissonance?

[West9]

There's a reason this is called a GAME and not LIFE OR DEATH.

Why do people go mental over this?

Yeah, a game that no one seems to want to play. Like, it's deeply funny that both sides of the Delenn wagon (aka the "who can disagree with the other side the loudest" war) have been complaining about a lack of scumhunting.

Engh, at this point I'm just bitter because I have an iso full of ignored questions.

Ari, you're a nice person: give me a good reason to vote Vedith that's not "he isn't titus"

[West9]

What about that quotewall is not easy to fake?

-Ank

Like, I'm not saying that genuine Aristophanes can't be scum, but that post is genuine Aristophanes.

[West9]

Alright, I took 5 minutes to read their combined 22 posts.
The 10 by Lizard are nothing damning. His Greninja vote was pretty legit at the time and really didn't warrant the wagon on him. His replacement is null as he apparently flaked site wide. (I just realized Lizard has been called "She" a lot. Sorry if I used improper gender pronouns.)

Vedith's 12 posts are also underwhelming.
The only thing they've done is vote Delenn for claiming to want the vig to kill them because they view it as antitown, and then just repeat this stance for their next bunch of posts while they try to discredit Delenn without making an actual case.
As Greninja pointed out, their vote was very unobtrusive to the game. They slipped it in with the flow and have been throwing pebbles from the back of the crowd.
I can honestly say this looks like scum trying not to cause ripples and once again, being on a wagon which is unlikely to give any D1 info and distract town again all of D2 While they sit back and take it easy.

enghhh i'm really not all that convinced by this. "Underwhelming" isn't that great of a charge on D1, especially since he's a replacement.

What about that quotewall is not easy to fake?

-Ank

Like, I'm not saying that genuine Aristophanes can't be scum, but that post is genuine Aristophanes.

What was the point of this post?

-Ank

I assumed you were saying that Ari, in order to discredit the Delenn wagon, could be faking how he feels towards TSO and the other people on that wagon. I've played mafia with Ari for a long time, and that is very much not a thing he does.

[West9]

in that case, i'd disagree that #1526 can be sufficiently summed up with "Ari doesn't like the Delenn wagon," but that's probably just because I agree some of the specific points about TSO and am honestly wondering if TSO can respond to them without calling Ari incompetent.

[West9]

VOTE: Aristophanes baaaaaaaaahhhh bahhhhhhhhhhh

[West9]

I FUCKING KNEW IT HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHAH
VOTE: west9
This guy never takes a stance, he seems overly soft, I'd be surprised if he was town.

You probably just think that because I haven't been yelling. I usually get to my stances by asking people questions about shit, and so far this game for me has been "West gets ignored and his questions get drowned out: the game."

But at least we got Titus out of the way via Vigilante. It stops us wasting multiple lynches on Titus, as well as stopping us from overly focusing on Titus too.

I mean, really when you think about it, lynching Delenn today would have probably lead to a townDelenn lynch on D2, or more likely, scum killing townDelenn in the night in order to get basis for a vig claim.

[West9]

"West gets ignored and his questions get drowned out: the game."

To be fair I just isod you and there aren't any questions that you made, that didn't get answered.

You sure that was my iso?

Spoiler:

Is this how Mr. Elvis usually is or is he mad about something?

Am I wrong for thinking that there's something different between "I think that this person is third-party and not scum, so we should lynch them" and "This person said he is third-party, so we should lynch them"? Because I saw Lizard's vote as being the second thing. Unless I'm missing something important in the part about the salulus?

Meh, not too much. Just a general thing that I am decently suspicious of people who keep trying to discredit my scumhunting methods while townreading me.

An attitude of discrediting a townie's methods over focusing on scum doesn't sound like a town one to me.

Expect you should be scumhunting by reading and asking legit questions.

Not setup soec.

Its not scummy to say that.

I consider it scummy when it looks like people are more concerned about my stuff than they are scumhunting though.

Who exactly was doing this? I don't like you saying "it's scummy to say that my secret discard plan is a waste of town's time," so you should give names.
*reads a couple pages*
Ohhh okay. Were you only talking about Delann, or was there someone else?

delenn is pretty much mislynch bait.

Nobody else want to acknowledge that?

Uh you mean like Greninja, who had been saying exactly that for pages at this point?
Also, why the Lizard unvote? And why not put that vote on someone else?

Also, if it's true, we should test it!

YESSSSS

LETS DO THISSSS

This whole time you've been going "Titus gets lynched a lot" and "what possible town role could Titus choose over BP?" so I'm wondering what's up with the continued push after the unlynchable claim.

Mr. Elvis consistently going "waaah no one is playing the game right" bothers me.

you are whining about me whining and that bothers me

THAT'S CALLED IRONY MOTHERF*CKERS

Eh, more coincidental than ironic, I'd say. Unless you were sarcastically saying that my "whining" bothered you.

actually (checks iso) I was getting a "criticizing the game while yelling a lot of nothing else" vibe from you, but you haven't made that type of criticism - "We sure as hell aren't hunting scum," etc. - in a while. What changed?

Honest question: TSO, do you have another reason for suspecting Titus behind the main "she prioritizes survival over all else so she wouldn't pick any town role over bulletproof" thing? Because, I'm staring at posts like this:

If anything, the claim makes less than no sense from your point of view, since even if you are 1-shot Unlynchable, that in no way proves you're town, as there can be Alien variants of that, etc. It doesn't confirm you in any way when it resolves.

and I really can't help but think, "it'd make sense if they are town telling the truth, though" and I'm not sure why you're not at least acknowledging that idea.

Once I have a chance to look at the discards I will form my scum reads solely off of that for D1.

why tho

Delenn: is the kthxbye vote still just because of the hydra dissonance?

I mean, yeah, some of these questions don't matter anymore and some of them got answered indirectly.

Sorry for "waa waa"-ing, but it's not true to say that I haven't been ignored a lot.

[West9]

actually, shit, reading those questions reminds me:

Davsto,

what was that secret discard plan?

[West9]

I also don't believe West9 would have picked VT over Cop, but I'm not sure how this probable lie effects the alignment of this game.

Being a blind VT honestly sounded more fun. Probably a dumb decision in hindsight. I was super close to lying in my response to dav.

[West9]

Current VCA:
Greys holly: luna fox, shiro, rabble rabble rabble

These were on Verdith wagon (the counter wagon to known scum Delenn) before the Delenn flip AND on the Aristo wagon (known town) at the end of D1.

[snip snip]

Cross reference that with the above and that leaves a good chance for a Were to be found in Shiro, west9, RRR and luna.

I actually agree with everyone on this list that isn't me, but that's just because I think the group mostly likely to be scum was the cross section between Ari wagoners and Vedith wagoners.

Skimming those three isos:

I understand where the Ari case is coming from, since he seemed pretty adamant about the delenn wagon in its early days. Then when it looked like it was losing steam he jumped off of it and pushed for verdith.

looking at Ari's ISO, the narrative about ari's play presented here is clearly wrong.

engh actually i'm super okay with luna's "let's just end this day" ari votes.

something about shiro's kaboose push, vedith vote, and "kill Delenn N1" advocacy are bothersome, but i am falling asleep right now so i'll deal with that tomorrow

West9 claiming to have discarded Cop and chose VT on D1? I'd be down to lynch that for that alone. I'll have to look back and when W9 claimed this.

Why tho?
Also, holy shit, W9 is a great nickname. Thank you for this gift.

[West9]

Kthx not jumping onto Level's "why aren't we looking at the guy who picked VT over cop?" thing after saying yesterday that he wanted to vote me over it probably means that one of them is scum.

in the meantime
VOTE: rabble

[West9]

I'm a Hero.

Vote:froggers

I can get behind this. This is nothing like the town froggers in Nyctapolis. Almost like seeing different people.

Can I get a link to this? I must be looking at the wrong game because I don't see frogger's name.

I think ramble got culted by killing TSO. Just my 2 cents on the subject

I'm pretty sure this is actually literally the only way that ramble could have been recruited. Unless people who get goomakered would also flip as goo?

Mafia may or may not have another member. Same goes for the Were's and el Cult. There are 4 flipped anti-town factions already

Are you counting SK as a anti-town faction? In that case, it's actually five.
With so many factions, I think it's really likely that most of them are tiny.

[West9]

rabble was an alien before he got culted
so...
mafia, werewolf, cult, SK, alien

[West9]

Rabble did not get recruited by a cult recruiter. Aliens (or any other member of a anti-town team) can only get culted by targeting black goo. Rabble likely was a lone alien, and shot TSO (I can't see any possible alien partner signing off a shot on a claimed black goo) in the hope that he'd get some new teammates in a new faction. Not saying that there absolutely can't be a recruiter, but if there were, they'd have had three nights to recruit, and probably would have won by now.

Also, like, I think the high body count can at least partially be contributed to how many killing roles town is already revealed to have had.. We already know that Elvis died from love, I'm decently sure that Luna PGO-shot firebringer N1, and we had two vigilantes that lived long enough to have potentially made a combined five shots.

The Frogger ISO in that game luna linked is super incriminating. L-1 seems like a bad idea this early in the day, though.

[West9]

gg. werewolfShiro surprised me.
people should be nice. #controversial
whyyyyy did verdith shoot delenn