Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Persivul]

It's against the rules. Call me and you can see it later. Oh yeah...you're broke...

[Persivul]

MM, if you end up with your current cash at end of phase, what will you do with it, and why?

[lane0168]

At least I got chicken

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 5pm EDT til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

Raise to 100

So now that we have seen the showdown and MM had an absolute No-Brainer hand I’m very curious why the wagon is still sitting on there. Frankly the reasons seem to be stretching pretty hard – the only way you can conclude that MM is scum from the way the hand played out is if he is scum with Lane and they pre-game decided to consolidate. But I wager that most people on the MM wagon don’t reason that they are scum together.

I also think Lane’s “Why were you mistaken on that costs of items in the shop” point as a scum-tell is highly suspect given he completely didn’t comprehend the nature of the game with no draws and jokers as explicitly stated in the rules.

I think RC is certainly a good place to be voting. Read back through his posts surrounding Lane and notice his posts where positions that Lane isn’t scum but refuses to take a stance that Lane is anything but Null. Also the following needs to come from RedCoyote ASAP –

I have not characterized my lane read as a townread. I do not think the evidence is there to call him a scumread, however.

Should he have a bad hand, I will reassess at that time.

So Lane had a stupidly bad hand. I want to see your full thought process now that we see that is indeed a fact.

I'm already voting, actually. Did you see the Vote Count?

Yeah, I had forgotten you hopped on MM. Why did you just happen to hop on the biggest wagon again?

Sorry, but I didn't join a poker-themed game to get one crappy hand and then have to wait forever for the next deal.

This reaction seems a little odd to me given Kappy was set to auto-fold in under 7 hours.

No reason to change before the showdown. The hands might tell us something.

So what exactly did the hands show you then?

Does anyone here know what Persivul's scumgame looks like?

Not personally. But I’d very much like to know given the gamestate.

MoI, do you think lane's alignment is related to his apparent poker knowledge? (You seemed to in 107.) Do you understand why RC says your arguments are poor in 107?

On Lane’s alignment isn’t related to his poker ability but to his possible motivations for going All-In. Queen high isn’t even remotely good for 5 card Draw without Jokers much less with them. So I’m still undecided if he just was playing that stupidly (nothing personal Lane … but that play was stupid if you are Town which you seem to understand) or if he was scum in a gambit and his response was a reaction coming from Scum instinctively defending his own play.

On RC – not really given the game-state (early game where getting scum-hunting moving calls for poking and prodding).

[lane0168]

I knew there were no draws and that was part of the reason for hoping people wouldn't call. I wasnt thinking about wilds at the time however, because I've rarely ever played poker with wilds, even though when you mentioned it I remembered reading about it.

If he was simply mistaken on the prices, ok. But how does he come up with 1000? He kept adding his reasons and making them up? I don't believe he ever thought they were 1000 in the first place. It doesn't make sense to come up with an arbitrary number! It just doesn't. That's why I think all of his reasons are just making shit up.

And yes. It was dumb as Fuck. I agree lol

[MagnaofIllusion]

If he was simply mistaken on the prices, ok. But how does he come up with 1000?

I buy it because I made the same mistake - albeit not directly in thread. At one point after I initially read the rules I thought it was odd that Governor and Vengeful were exactly twice the starting amount. I went back to double check and found out I was wrong. SO i don't see it as some smoking gun.

[lane0168]

Honestly if none of that had happened, id still be voting him for not clarifying he isn't a noobie when people are using it to possibly clear him

Pedit. Fine. We'll assume he genuinely thought they were 1000. Doesn't change my mind because it's more about him coming up with all these new reasons for everything

Why did you think they were 1000?

[Persivul]

This reaction seems a little odd to me given Kappy was set to auto-fold in under 7 hours.

I hadn't checked it. When mod pointed it out I said This time... just to be a dick.

So what exactly did the hands show you then?

Lane's hand is as bad as he indicated. This is compatible with a chip dump, or a bluff gone wrong. As previously noted, the bluff gone wrong isn't convincing because lane later claimed decent poker knowledge, and with this many players someone who knows poker should expect a call. OTOH and as also noted, when real money isn't on the line people do shit like that.

MM's hand is compatible with a chip dump. Scum aren't risking all their chips without a good hand to back it up. But, it's good enough that town might have jumped on the all-in. The problem with MM isn't his card play per se, but rather the changing explanations he gives for the play.

If one of them flips scum, I think the other needs lynched as well. If one of them flips green, it doesn't say as much about the other.

[Persivul]

I buy it because I made the same mistake - albeit not directly in thread. At one point after I initially read the rules I thought it was odd that Governor and Vengeful were exactly twice the starting amount. I went back to double check and found out I was wrong. SO i don't see it as some smoking gun.

Did you read your role PM?

[lane0168]

Maybe the original rules said 1000?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Did you read your role PM?

Yup.

[Persivul]

Mine said that the initial rules had changed so be sure to read up before confirming.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mine said that the initial rules had changed so be sure to read up before confirming.

Your point?

[lane0168]

Persivul going full snarky this game eh? Lol

[lane0168]

Magna, why did you think it was 1000?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, why did you think it was 1000?

I don't remember specifically. Frankly I didn't pay a huge attention to the shop aspect given it doesn't come into play until Night 1. I was more interested in the actual mechanics. You know ... things like Jokers.

[Persivul]

Mine said that the initial rules had changed so be sure to read up before confirming.

Your point?

Point being that having seen what I take was an earlier price list isn't a good excuse, as the PMs specifically said stuff had changed and we were to read it before confirming.

Regarding red cameltoe: He comes across as somewhat stilted, but his argument and vote on MM seems reasonable. He null- then town-read Lane despite my having paired them together, so he wasn't just sheeping.

[Persivul]

BBT: not saying shit, which isn't unusual for him.

[Persivul]

Same for FAQ unfortunately.

[Infinity 324]

I think the argument about getting the price wrong is shit; not everyone is as detail-oriented as you guys are apparently. I'm certainly not.

Regarding red cameltoe: He comes across as somewhat stilted, but his argument and vote on MM seems reasonable. He null- then town-read Lane despite my having paired them together, so he wasn't just sheeping.

I actually thought his reasoning for voting MM was pretty weak (though admittely fine for a page 5 vote). If mm flipped town, how would that change your read on RC?

[Infinity 324]

I do want mm to respond about the games he played off-site though.

[The MM]

@the mm, why are you letting people think you're a noobie, when you're not

I am. This is my second game with people who actually know how to play. What makes you say I'm not?[/quote]

MM, if you end up with your current cash at end of phase, what will you do with it, and why?

I don't have a definite plan in head, so I'm open to suggestions. The Tracker shot is tempting me as the most obviously townie ability of choice, then again I don't know who I'd track. The Tracker shot has the advantage of being refunded if the target does nothing.

[...]

I have not characterized my lane read as a townread. I do not think the evidence is there to call him a scumread, however. Should he have a bad hand, I will reassess at that time.

So Lane had a stupidly bad hand. I want to see your full thought process now that we see that is indeed a fact.

I'm already voting, actually. Did you see the Vote Count?

Yeah, I had forgotten you hopped on MM. Why did you just happen to hop on the biggest wagon again?

Sorry, but I didn't join a poker-themed game to get one crappy hand and then have to wait forever for the next deal.

This reaction seems a little odd to me given Kappy was set to auto-fold in under 7 hours.

No reason to change before the showdown. The hands might tell us something.

So what exactly did the hands show you then?

This is highlighting RC as potential scum. I just registered it as a nastier townie but yeah, I'd like to see RC's input before scumreading.

I do want mm to respond about the games he played off-site though.

I played a lot of them, something like 14, but they were never played seriously. Full of leaks, day phases that lasted 3 days or less, perpetual RVS or outside-reason-based voting (outside of swingy setups). If you want the full curriculum, please go bother wgeurts instead. But seriously, this isn't real mafia, this only teaches you the basic mechanics, which is why Ilook like I'm swimming fine. But this never taught me to read people, much less actually judging my own actions in hindsight, so I'm swimming in all directions without really knowing where I'm going. My knowledge of Mafia is still passable and rudimentary, so I count myself as a newbie.

[lane0168]

15 games played and 3 games hosted. And a read through your first game, tells me you really shouldn't be hiding behind a noobie tag. But it's a pretty convenient way out that people suggest you're a newbie and you do nothing to explain even that you've played 14 games and hosted 3 elsewhere, regardless of the quality of those games

[Alchemist21]

Vote count on the way, but a couple of notes first.

1) I noticed a couple of people folded when the new hand got dealt. Because of the ante, there is no need to call so there is no folding, just the option to check or bet. Since a bet was made I'll just assume those players would fold anyway, and I'll hhave their folds listed as occuring after the bet.

2) Changes to the rules were all made in the general section as they were simply things that slipped my mind. The special rules were all written and double checked before the thread was made, and no changes were ever made to them.

[Alchemist21]

♠ ♡ DAY 1 VOTECOUNT ♢ ♣

MM(4):

lane, Persivul, Red Coyote, BBT

Red Coyote(2):

Infinity, Magna

BBT:

qubixes

Not Voting(4):

Kappy, FA_Q2, Something Smart, MM

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

The current pot is $200

The amount to call is $100

Still in the hand: MagnaOfIllusion, Persivul, Kappy, lane0168, FA_Q2, qubixes, RedCoyote

Persivul, Kappy, lane, FA, quibixes, and RC must act.

Spoiler: Betting History

Bet orders:
Ante
Persivul bets 50
Bbt folds
Mm folds
Infinity folds
Something smart folds
Magnaofillusion raises to 100

Day ends in (expired on 2016-07-05 12:30:00)

By the way, I'm gonna tell everyone how much money they got left each time the Day ends, but if ya ever wanna know at anytime just PM me and ask.