Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:37 pm

But obviously not tonight because circle jerk hopefully.

Narna please answer if circle jerk is a thing.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:59 pm

In post 4238, Narna wrote:Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point. So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:00 pm

In post 9393, JaeReed wrote:Wait, no, I'm doing it wrong.

You're not lynching SirCakez he is obvtown!!!

VOTE: MathBlade

And I stand by what I said. I just don't like that one post reaction. Interesting why that caused you to vote me who you say you hard townread. Definitely has no relation to the hood at all does it?

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:05 pm

In post 9392, JaeReed wrote:
In post 9389, MathBlade wrote:If I am wrong on SirCakez it is only if he has the same alignment as JaeReed. I hate this post reaction.
Yes, congratulations.

I admit it. I'm scum with SirCakez.

Can we lynch him now? Is that all it takes for you to finally listen to a suggestion to lynch one of my scumreads?

No because it is dependent on your alignment. So still no touches Cakey.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:18 pm

Jail keeping absolutely prevents night actions of the user. It is a roleblock and save life combo. The last thing anyone should do is Jailkeep me as I am BP.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:19 pm

But if she is an Alien it would. It is a special type of Jailkeep. Are you an Alien Nahdia?

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:23 pm

In post 9422, Not Chara wrote:
In post 9416, MathBlade wrote:But if she is an Alien it would. It is a special type of Jailkeep. Are you an Alien Nahdia?
they/them.
why would you even think Nahda was an alien? they've already claimed their role and are obviously not a rolestopper.

Apologies Nahdia.
I was flashing back to Shadowrun when I was one combined with JaeReed's suggestion.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:24 pm

In post 9425, Nahdia wrote:It made sense as a redirect coming from Maxous. With Maxous not flipping redirector, it's just as likely it was a strongkill or a rolegblock that interfered.

But sure. Fucking challenge me when I refuse to act and challenge me when I do act. I can't win, can I?

When scum challenge they commonly make unwinnable scenarios.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:26 pm

In post 9428, JaeReed wrote:
In post 9420, Nahdia wrote:No. We've been over this, even. Narna got a result on Creeps20 night 2, which I disputed because I was jailkeeping them last night (I'm used to the alien variation being default), but then I retracted my objection after re-checking my role PM and clarifying that yeah, i only stop killing actions.
someone confirm this happened as stated?

Maxous roleblocked them N2 based on their claim. *facepalm*

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:45 pm

In post 9442, Not Chara wrote:
In post 9412, JaeReed wrote:So you just admitted that you were going to jailkeep me... When jailkeeping would stop Math from getting a result?

In post 9421, JaeReed wrote:Let me

break this down

obviously something stopped nahdia's jailkeep from working on zakk yeah? the suspected thing is a redirect yeah?

and you want to jailkeep tonight of all nights when it is the most important night for shit to not be messed with.
i'm talking about this. mathblade's result is important, when nahdia could potentially mess with it. mathblade's result is also meaningless and will surely be messed with. alright.

The suspected thing is not a redirect IMHO but a strongman kill or Nahdia is lying. Redirect is a distant third to me. I would believe Maxous lied about who he targeted N1 over a redirect. Especially if he is a cult leader and wanted to make sure his action went through.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:46 pm

In post 9447, Not Chara wrote:how about nahdia doesn't jailkeep, and you get shot? math's result would be useless so scum wouldn't mess with it to begin with.

I disagree with this. Me pushing for a mislynch would be huge for scum. Similar to the Shiro scenario which I really want to understand post game. If Nahdia jailkeeps me then it is a scum claim. I'm the last person who should be kept.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:47 pm

In post 9451, Nahdia wrote:Right. So I'm just supposed to let our potential clear die. Of course. Duh.

Drop the fatalism, Jae, it doesn't suit you.

Agreed especially how you're saying I will lie about the results as a townread in the hood multiple times. I DO NOT LIE AS TOWN.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:52 pm

In post 9456, JaeReed wrote:Can someone explain to MathBlade how I'm not saying they will lie.

I am saying they will report the exact result they get and then ignore what that really means to push for my lynch because they are actually incapable of reading me.

And I would ignore my results being messed with to chase after you because....? It would depend on how they were messed with and what that indicated. It would also depend on a few things. I doubt three role blockers so if I get roleblocked then I would go after Nahdia and if they are town then you sir would have likely changed into an ascetic. If I'm redirected it confirms there is a redirector who redirected Narna onto Shiro likely and then planned their mislynch the next day and that my theory on Nahdia not being redirected is wrong.

Stop trying to say I'm going to tunnel you to obvilion without reason. It's ridiculous it's like you want to call me scum and mislynch me but are hampered by your town read of me and are trying to say because I'm a tunneler I will tunnel you but I pressured Gio and changed my read on them. Do me a favor stop it. It's bullshit. Try another plan.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:53 pm

In post 9458, Not Chara wrote:
In post 9456, JaeReed wrote:Can someone explain to MathBlade how I'm not saying they will lie.

I am saying they will report the exact result they get and then ignore what that really means to push for my lynch because they are actually incapable of reading me.
one player doesn't make a mislynch, stop acting as though you've already died. and acting as an oracle. if math really wouldnt listen to a VT result, they wouldn't bother making the check. they're playing by logic, you know that. they're not going to overturn their own results just because they once thought you
might
be a godfather.

This.

Although the one player to make a lynch when I scream Maxous over and over about 20 times kinda belays that argument. I am a tunneler. It's just a matter of who and why I tunnel.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:54 pm

If scum modify my results it matters as to HOW they do it. If I get a guilty on you and you are not indeed guilty (which would only happen after a flip) it confirms there is a framer in existence which would then call into question of Narna's results but give us conf town Narna and very close to conf town Gio.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:59 pm

For example if I get a not VT on you and if Narna checks you (Again I have my suggestions for Circle Jerk but Narna makes Narna's choice not me) and says "Not killer" it likely means that you were culted and quite possibly between Titus's check and this one.

I plan on taking the night results I get and adding them to what the already claimed actions are in my notes and then trying to figure out what the fuck has happened.

We should be lynching PV today. Analyzing SirCakez's choice of Inventor.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:00 pm

In post 6474, massive wrote:Yeah because we know Nahdia WAS roleblocked N2 (they claimed to have JKed me but I was not), so at least that part of Maxous's list lines up.

@Nahdia

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:02 pm

I replaced in late but I has no fruits

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:03 pm

In post 9476, Not Chara wrote:I'm happy just seeing how Creeps responds to the question. and then lynching him. or Peregrine, or Accountant. or whoever else i said.

i want Ank to shoot someone. so let's lynch.

Creeps is on VLA til 1/2. Join me on PV.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:08 pm

In post 9481, callforjudgement wrote:@MathBlade: I missed your case on PeregrineV. Care to summarize it?

It's more by PoE.
I want Yoshi or Almost50 or Not Chara. (The latter agrees with me too much which can be a scum tell I've seen in some games.)
Those aren't happening and no one after asking multiple times talks about it (Not Chara).

PV on the other hand hasn't been posting much and when he has been posting it doesn't go from A>>>B. I know he is a lurker as either alignment but he actually did most more and I still don't know where he sits on a lot of the game.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:12 pm

In post 9487, JaeReed wrote:A lot of people who have played with Peregrine in the past and claim to be able to read him have said he's town here. I'm not going for that lynch ever.

And coincidentally the only ones vouching for him I scumread and/or can't figure out. Those vouches are as useful to me as a black piece of paper to do math on with only a black marker.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:13 pm

In post 9489, Not Chara wrote:Math: wait, what? what the hell do we agree on.

The Maxous lynch was like uber buddy central. Every once in a while it seems like you echo what I have said it feels like an echo chamber at points.

Pedit: That too

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:16 pm

Nahdia gives me those vibes as well (I have mentioned such in the hood). The difference with them though is that they look to be town because Maxous blocked them earlier. I don't see them being group scum only cult if it was done during the weird ass night phase which I doubt.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:19 pm

In post 7441, MathBlade wrote:
In post 7440, Not Chara wrote:Math's reads, some of them, are wrong, but everything they've said mechanically is sound. and.. to be fair, i haven't seen you concede your theory except to say that you did to Math just now.

of course, from your pov, math is wrong on your alignment. that's mafia. it's not grounds to dismiss their other logic, and certainly isn't a point against anything.
You are creeping me out how much we are thinking alike right now.

Here was a major ping.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:19 pm

There were also a couple when discussing Yoshi too.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:20 pm

Makes it feel like a bus but I has no proof.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:25 pm

In post 9501, Not Chara wrote:this is probably the most annoying reason to call me scum i've ever been subjected to. if you're being logical, and Almost is not being logical, of course i will agree with you. just like how we argued when from my position you were being
illogical
.

We are not starting this again.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:30 pm

In post 9504, Not Chara wrote:Math: fine, i suppose it doesn't matter.

It does. I am just trying not to be angry and be focused so we can get a lynch.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:41 pm

In post 9506, Narna wrote:
In post 7866, Narna wrote:I feel like Not Chara has been handing out townreads, and not pushing anything pretty much all game.

Yay one person. I stand corrected.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:52 pm

Yes let's lynch Creeps the lurker with confirmable flavor since N4 over not confirmed lurker PV while the first is on V/LA. This makes complete sense. /sarcasm.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:21 pm

In post 9523, SirCakez wrote:
In post 9512, Narna wrote:
In post 9509, SirCakez wrote:I also hate that everyone has written off the Gio/Narna sect as town when those two would make a lot of sense as a scumteam
Yeah weh would make a likely team, but it doesn't make sense to tr gio, but doubt me like my n brethren.
Everyone is grouping you and Gio together because of the interconnected nature you two have. You could be town and him scum but I doubt that, I don't see why he'd save you in that scenario on the day everyone wanted to murder your face.
In post 9515, MathBlade wrote:Yes let's lynch Creeps the lurker with confirmable flavor since N4 over not confirmed lurker PV while the first is on V/LA. This makes complete sense. /sarcasm.
What confirmable flavor?
In post 9517, Narna wrote:VOTE: replace creeps
Why are we lynching the fruit vendor?
Fruit vendors can be scum
Hell I was a scum fruit vendor in Order of the Stick

A fruit vendor with this many cops?

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:29 pm

Going to bed good night all.
Pedit:
.....Sure it isn't. /sarcasm

Bastard doesn't mean ignore results. It means take bastard into consideration.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:49 pm

I don't trust Ank with hammers someone give me a reason other than mechanics they trust him and his reads when he didn't vote Maxous.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:13 pm

This was not smart IMHO. I am expecting Creeps to flip town and will hunt scum on this.

MathBlade · Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:20 pm

In post 9540, Narna wrote:All of today's suspectes minus math are on this shitty wagon. Kill off the n's

Fuck me

replace me

Please don't replace out

It is hard enough finding people willing to read this much.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:48 pm

JaeReed is a vanilla townie per my Neopolitan check.

Narna flipped Town as I expected. Not Chara Ank claimed in the hood so Narna was the scum kill.

This makes Yoshi Town and the string of confirms holds unless the faction bit messed with them. Based on the two Town flips and JaeReed checking as a VT then we likely have scum cornered.

Oh and I received another one shot item.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:55 pm

So we know Narna got could not kills on Creeps slot and Nahdia slot and Accountant slot. JaeReed slot is out because of VT check claim Gio is out because of Maxous ascetic D2 check.

This means either Narna was framed on the Shiro check or derped.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:55 pm

The only way Yoshi is not Town is if scum no killed to give him an alibi which I just don't buy.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:00 pm

Not Voting: SirCakez, Giovanni il Pellegrino, MathBlade, PeregrineV, Nahdia, callforjudgement, Ankamius, BigYoshiFan, Almost50, JaeReed

So this leaves SirCakez, myself, Peregrine V, Ank, and Almost50 as potential scum.

Taking out obv town SirCakez and myself this leaves Peregrine V Ank and Almost50 as group scum candidates.

(Yes yes I know before you start yelling I know I am ignoring the possibility of a cult on N5 but we need group scum death. )

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:01 pm

In post 9551, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9549, MathBlade wrote:So we know Narna got could not kills on Creeps slot and Nahdia slot and Accountant slot. JaeReed slot is out because of VT check claim Gio is out because of Maxous ascetic D2 check.
Can you explain the reasoning on Gio in more detail? I must have missed when that happened.

Gio claimed even night Weak Follower who followed Maxous N2 and Narna on N4. Narna having flipped Town means Gio can't have been lying to protect Narna. Either his entire claim is bogus and happened to guess with no evidence Maxous was ascetic or he is telling the truth.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:02 pm

In post 9554, SirCakez wrote:Math what clears CFJ?

Narna checked Accountant slot.
Accountant was replaced by cfj.
Ergo cfj can't kill.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:05 pm

In post 9553, SirCakez wrote:Narna/Creeps FFS
Not Chara town flip is unsurprising though
Since Narna was town that basically confirms an investigation result manipulator I believe?

I think scum is in (A50, PV, Callforjudgement, Ank) at this point, with a small chance of Yoshi scum if there was a nokill gambit to "clear" him.

I think it is the most likely that Narna derped or a result manipulator yes. i have probably bugged Skull to the point of no end but a miller would return can kill to Narna's check. So derping has to be a possibility and no investigation framer til all of A50,PV,Ank are all dead.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:07 pm

Nahdia did you Jailkeep JaeReed as promised?

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:14 pm

In post 9563, SirCakez wrote:Oh yeah I forgot about the check on Accountant
Nice it's basically cut and dry now

Unless there's a GF or something <.<

Yep.

Pretty much.

Down with group scum then figure out Maxous's faction bit.

And I definitely wouldn't call Ank a vig. I think he is 3P or Maxous faction. Vig implies town. Confirmed shot Not Chara yes.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:15 pm

Since Almost50 has made more of an effort playing the game I think PV should be the lynch today.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:33 pm

For Gio to be 3P/killer he would have to go against his own interests of staying hidden. At any point Narna could put him as a killer if that was the case. If Gio is anything it is cult. Hence why Gio and Nahdia's results are important.

Gio who did you follow?
Nahdia did you block jaeReed?

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:34 pm

In post 9568, Nahdia wrote:SirCakez did you track?

Read the hood please about this question in two minutes.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:34 pm

In post 9570, Nahdia wrote:
In post 9562, Nahdia wrote:yes.

Sorry fuck my phone.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:46 pm

An inventor has items to distribute that is the point of the role.

:face palm: and hugs

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:54 pm

In post 9581, BigYoshiFan wrote:Wonder why Narna was the scumkill, because they supposedly cleared townies or because that's what they want us to think.

I think Narna was the kill because Narna would then be operating under the either PV or A50 mindset. At that point no one else would have been lynchable once Creeps flipped Town and realized not all its checks were shit.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:55 pm

I still wonder about Yoshi though or if scum BP'd be but you go in my light clear pile since there was a kill tonight.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:56 pm

Scum shot at me even though I am BP aka BP'd me

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:09 pm

In post 9587, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9583, MathBlade wrote:I still wonder about Yoshi though or if scum BP'd be but you go in my light clear pile since there was a kill tonight.

In post 9584, MathBlade wrote:Scum shot at me even though I am BP aka BP'd me
I was townreading you for assuming that your BP had blocked a shot, but this is making me doubt at least part of that read. The fact that you're bulletproof has been made a big deal of over the course of the game. It's not reasonable to think anyone with a kill would have forgotten about it. So why are you suggesting it?

Because I didn't say how many shots I was BP. If I was shot by Maxous then shot again it would result in a no kill.

Unless you think I am scum with Gio I can't be group scum and I didn't kill Narna.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:16 pm

I am confirmed not cult. Crow is disgusting.

I like Almost50 better changed my mind.

VOTE: Almost50

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:17 pm

In post 9595, JaeReed wrote:I'm saying I think Math has been cult since the Maxous death, silly.

Then Gio would be dead as I would be not Town.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:19 pm

In post 9596, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9585, BigYoshiFan wrote:I'm thinking it's true that not all scum members can kill, and Narna was killed to bolster the position of who they checked.
Also, Math and Gio team? Something that sprung up in my mind. Probably something I am missing that makes this obviously not true.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it anywhere earlier (other than in my head), but my main issue with MathBlade is that they seem to really care about surviving personally (something I picked up while following the game), but also don't seem to have (or at least, haven't claimed to have) a role that warrants that. This is what prompted me to outright ask MathBlade earlier if they had an alternative win condition. It also implies a possibility that the Bulletproof is a fakeclaim; generally speaking, if you're a Bulletproof Townie, you actively want that to remain hidden as long as possible, but MathBlade has been claiming it at basically every opportunity. Obviously, a fake Bulletproof claim reduces the chance that you die via discouraging players from shooting you.

People who have played with MathBlade before: are they generally selfish as Town? Or is selfishness an indication that they might have a different alignment? (I can reasonably see all of groupscum (although that's a bit of a stretch), third-party, cult (MathBlade is a blatantly obvious cult target; the main argument against is that we've seen no proof of a cult, but we have seen many hints…), and just plain selfish town.)

PEDIT: Oh, it looks like people have been discussing this already while I've been writing the post, but I'll post it anyway.

I was already outed as BP. I am being loud and solvy to try to draw the NK. Came up with the theory that confirms a shit ton of town please. The only way I am anything but Town is if Gio isn't Town.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:21 pm

VOTE: Peregrine V

Back here.

That was pre claim and I was explaining the actions and one thing that resets vote counts is a day vig. Being immune to Day and night kills implies there is a day kill ability.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:25 pm

Keep bending bud. I am town. I am annoyed and frustrated I had to drag y'all to Maxous you won't listen to me on Creeps or PV and now that it is narrowed down to PV. But a part of me finds it utterly hilarious you are trying to lynch confirmed town.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:25 pm

To PV or Almost50*

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:27 pm

In post 9608, JaeReed wrote:Except I thought Math actually claimed full bp when we were arguing here yesterday, so now arguing that they haven't claimed their shots is bullshit.

I still want a Math lynch for A) saying I was trying to policy lynch them due to Shadowrun when I clearly stated my case, and B) refusing to lynch obvscum SirCakez therefore making them a liability and C) deciding i had to be scum because I didn't trust them and thought Neapolitan also returned alignment of whoever was checked

....You were then.
SirCakez is obvTown.
And yes when you don't provide reasons and don't read the wiki yes I think you are trying to bend things.

Just like now. I am not arguing I didn't. I am arguing I didn't claim it at that time.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:44 pm

In post 9611, JaeReed wrote:No, I was not. I 100% was not and I had a case and Almost even boiled it down for you. Cakez is obvscum. And I did provide my reasons and it was very clear if you even TRIED TO READ MY DAMN POSTS THAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

But you dont' read my posts. You still won't now that I'm confirmed town to you.

I do read your posts. Your posts are not an argument of how he is scum. SirCakez has given you as a very likely conf town and lots of different inventions out. I don't see scum doing that asthe pool narrows. As long as SirCakez is giving inventions to conftown like me he is acting in town's best interests in the case he isn't but I strongly think he is.

We are lynching PV.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:45 pm

In post 9612, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9552, MathBlade wrote:Not Voting: SirCakez, Giovanni il Pellegrino, MathBlade, PeregrineV, Nahdia, callforjudgement, Ankamius, BigYoshiFan, Almost50, JaeReed

So this leaves SirCakez, myself, Peregrine V, Ank, and Almost50 as potential scum.

Taking out obv town SirCakez and myself this leaves Peregrine V Ank and Almost50 as group scum candidates.

(Yes yes I know before you start yelling I know I am ignoring the possibility of a cult on N5 but we need group scum death. )
Admitting you aren't confirmed as town by night actions.
MathBlade wrote:Keep bending bud. I am town. I am annoyed and frustrated I had to drag y'all to Maxous you won't listen to me on Creeps or PV and now that it is narrowed down to PV. But a part of me finds it utterly hilarious you are trying to lynch confirmed town.
Acting like you are confirmed as town by night actions (sufficiently so that you made me go and reread to discover where). Also, why doesn't the second post mention A50?

(Please don't draw the wrong conclusions from my questions: I am trying to sort you at the moment. That doesn't mean that I think you're scum, or on any particular scumteam. It
does
mean, though, that I have little reason to consider you town.)

I added A50 later but I don't see annoying dog converter as scum. It was based on hood posting at that time.
That first post was preGio.

Gio confirms me as Town.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:48 pm

In post 9617, SirCakez wrote:I thought Weak died if visiting nontown?

This. Will go find the post.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:50 pm

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8563651

Here Giovanni dies if he targets anyone not Town aligned.

Therefore I am confirmed town aligned unless you are calling Gio a liar.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:55 pm

@Almost50 remind me where Narna said they would check Gio?

PV should be the lynch today.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:56 pm

In post 9621, Almost50 wrote:Actually, you could make PV hammer as an alternative. He didn't claim his role (or did I miss that?) so maybe it'd be safer that way?/ A third alternative is JR (we already know he is a VT, so transforming into the Annoying Dog while keeping his alignment isn't bad. In fact i should protect him from the NK).

How do you protect from the NK?

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:58 pm

I do but Narna said no circle jerk. Let me find the post.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:59 pm

In post 9399, Narna wrote:
In post 9395, MathBlade wrote:
In post 4238, Narna wrote:Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point.
So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.
The second sentence is me detailing my massive result from n2. No circle jerk for me. Something happened with Shiro, and it makes me suspicious of cakez's lack of a n3 action.

Here almost50.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:01 pm

In post 9619, MathBlade wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8563651

Here Giovanni dies if he targets anyone not Town aligned.

Therefore I am confirmed town aligned unless you are calling Gio a liar.

@cfj

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:05 pm

In post 9399, Narna wrote:
In post 9395, MathBlade wrote:
In post 4238, Narna wrote:Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point.
So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.
The second sentence is me detailing my massive result from n2. No circle jerk for me. Something happened with Shiro, and it makes me suspicious of cakez's lack of a n3 action.

Nahdia lacked a d3 action too. I do not think SirCakez is scum.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:07 pm

Instead y'all are avoiding talking about PV today. Why?

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:12 pm

In post 9635, JaeReed wrote:I'm officially shutting down and not reading nor responding to MathBlade's posts ftr. I also want Giovanni to confirm that they would die if visiting cult.

My preferred lynch today is SirCakez based on dayplay. Stop giving him a free out for having a confirmed role.

My preferred lynch is PV. SirCakez is more than a confirmed role he is leashed. He literally has to keep giving me the items as I am confirmed town. I don't think he is scum and should be lynching PV. If anyone else gets an item we lynch him.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:14 pm

In post 9638, callforjudgement wrote:@Nahdia: Wouldn't be the first time this game that players had made incorrect assumptions about their role based on the name. It's at least prudent to wait for confirmation.

I asked him about his role a good 5 times when I replaced in. (5 is approximate.) Gio is town. However if you want to wait on him to repeat the same damn thing again don't know what else to say here.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:25 pm

That literally says non Town aligned.

It says non Town.

Please explain how the same thing is confirmed lying scum.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:25 pm

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:26 pm

PV needs rope.

MathBlade · Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:12 pm

Oh and since I can't sleep I am for mass claim well since PV is the only one who hasn't claimed yet and is probably the mass killer.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:54 am

Why are we talking about hammering the dog. We should be lynching obvscum PV.

@SirCakez -- I was assuming that typo is JR not SR for JaeReed.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:01 am

By golly good scot I think that is one of the better questions you have asked all game.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:48 am

I already asked for a claim. PV posts once every 200 years (sarcasm) and I wanted him yesterday and people then randomly ran up conftown. I do not have the patience for this shit. We are not lynching in the clears.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:49 am

In post 9666, BigYoshiFan wrote:Ankamius revealed his intentions in the neighborhood, right? Does anyone in the neighborhood scumread them?

I don't scumread him I 3P him.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:54 am

Considering people are suggesting lynching people who are confirmed not killers and we should be lynching within the pool of not cleared killers to save lives. And SirCakez is obviously Town I really only see PV as a viable lynch unless someone provides a case for SirCakez scum other than "obvious" I don't see myself voting Cakez.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:00 am

Yes I have. And even if you don't think I have the onus is one you to convince me that Cakez is scum for me to vote him.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:04 am

Only Town wins with town.

I don't think Ank is town.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:05 am

Win Condition: You win when all non-Town players have been eliminated from the game and there is at least one Town player still alive.

Anyone not Town needs rope.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:06 am

In post 9677, BigYoshiFan wrote:What about the conditional bookie

They were Town. Anyone not Town needs rope.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:09 am

I will tell you I don't have an alternate win con. Mine is flat out I have to eliminate all the non Town or I lose. So if someone can actually post a case more than "their play" or "obvious scum" I am listening.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:16 am

In post 9684, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 9555, MathBlade wrote:
In post 9551, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9549, MathBlade wrote:So we know Narna got could not kills on Creeps slot and Nahdia slot and Accountant slot. JaeReed slot is out because of VT check claim Gio is out because of Maxous ascetic D2 check.
Can you explain the reasoning on Gio in more detail? I must have missed when that happened.
Gio claimed even night Weak Follower who followed Maxous N2 and Narna on N4. Narna having flipped Town means Gio can't have been lying to protect Narna. Either his entire claim is bogus and happened to guess with no evidence Maxous was ascetic or he is telling the truth.
Is this expressing a TR on Gio? Also, what stops Gio from being a mafia follower? He could have claimed this for towncred and tried to kill Narna N5, which failed, then decided again to kill Narna on N6. Given Narna's supposed derp, people weren't necessarily believing Narna's claims.

At this point I doubt there is a group scum. Too many people are clear. I suspect all the evil is 3P.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:17 am

In post 9686, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 9683, callforjudgement wrote:@
PeregrineV
: #8869 seems to imply that you think some dead players got culted. That makes very little sense, as far as I can tell; Skullduggery's a competent enough mod to ensure that cultedness would show in a flip (given that we apparently have no other way to determine it or even that a cult exists), and a cult wouldn't target a player who'd already died for recruitment. Can you explain what's going on there?
I can, but would you rather PV answer? I think there is a misunderstanding.

P-edit. Interesting... is it common knowledge that mafia and cult do not win together?

Usually that is not the case.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:27 am

I think PV has been the killer throughout the game and Ank is just 3P. Gut says PV is an SK.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:41 am

In post 9695, BigYoshiFan wrote:Two, and surprisingly, MathBlade was the first one. 0.0
They despised me sheeping them a while back and made clear he doesn't wanna vote on many occasions for that purpose. I wonder what changed.

My read on you shifted. That is what changed. I hate sheeping but worse from a scumread.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:43 am

In post 9697, BigYoshiFan wrote:Okay, how about everyone else? You despised sheeping overall, yes?

Yes but placing a vote isn't sheeping. Cfj for example is posting reasons.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:44 am

In order words I has no reason because that is how Town SirCakez plays. Got it okay.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:44 am

You has*

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:48 am

In post 9702, BigYoshiFan wrote:Did I not do that? What about everyone else who may vote just because? You avoided voting altogether because of that.

P-edit. When did Cakez become involved?

Did you not do what? I don't follow your post too many pronouns.

I was responding to the Cakez "argument". So compelling. /sarcasm

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:53 am

In post 9704, BigYoshiFan wrote:Did I not vote with reasons?
Also, you completed avoided voting so other people would not sheep you, what's different here?
I didn't have much of an argument on SirCakez either, if any. I don't like how you brought them up.

I didn't bring SirCakez up I was responding to the other people and their reasonless gut townread.
Not sure what you are getting at on the second sentence but PV FMPoV is the only viable lynch today.
When you were sheeping it was verbatim what Math said. I no likey that.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:53 am

What I said*

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:02 pm

I have concluded there are no reasons that anyone has given to scumread SirCakez. Seems more like an attempt to remove town power than a scum/3P read. The only thing people scum read SirCakez for is "meta" and I have played with him enough this isn't group scum meta Cakez. So bring something more to the table than meta or I am not interested.

No it isn't. You said you wanted a claim and that he was a dog. Two things not in CFJ's post ergo no sheepage.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:21 pm

No. sheeping is voting a person and/or having the same reads list without showing individualistic thought. I demonstrated where you did. Ergo not sheeping. When you posted reads it was like sheep me but doubtcast me. It got old fast.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:31 pm

In post 9712, BigYoshiFan wrote:Fine. ONE MORE.
You avoided voting before to stop people from sheeping you at all via votes. Yes?
What's different here? The potential for people to sheep is still the same as before.

Because PV has to be an SK FMPOV.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:21 pm

Yes he was lol Cakez

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:52 pm

Lol. Bullshit claim.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:52 pm

Bullshit. Claim. *

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:57 pm

In post 9730, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 9715, MathBlade wrote:
In post 9712, BigYoshiFan wrote:Fine. ONE MORE.
You avoided voting before to stop people from sheeping you at all via votes. Yes?
What's different here? The potential for people to sheep is still the same as before.
Because PV has to be an SK FMPOV.
Can you link to all the games where you were right? Since this won't be one of them, but I would like to see your pedigree listed once again.

Gistou. Named almost all the other scumteam in multiball for one. Look at scum chat.

I do. I think PV is scum and is the SK. If he was truly a BP investigative he would have cleared me up a long as time ago. Hell when creature claimed BP he would check then. The claim is shit.

Sometimes I am right and some times I am wrong. However gambler's fallacy gets you nowhere. What matters is if I am right here.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:00 pm

And if it is that he is an investigative and is BP he should have no problem sharing his results. I don't see Skull putting two BOs in the setup and both are town.

So if he is a BP investigative then he would have checked me a long time ago and outed that I am Town not thrown shade my way.

If he is an investigative who is BP then I call bullshit again. I don't have an alternate wincon and have to eliminate all non Town.

PV is just making an excuse as to why he wouldn't be shot.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:01 pm

In post 9735, JaeReed wrote:The bulletproof investigative thing was sarcasm from him.

Then he needs to claim.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:06 pm

Yes. Those are things. Things I tend not to use in mafia.

Now then back on point claim. And if you did claim clearer.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:06 pm

Pedit looking at the link.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:10 pm

Do you think Almost50 is scum PV?

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:19 pm

I don't think this is the case. I am skeptical of PV's claim. I would have expected him to post something more dog esque at the start of the game. Will reread his ISO.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:20 pm

Actually found something just a sec.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:21 pm

MagnaofIllusion -- zakk, Nahdia, Not Chara, Narna, Firebringer, Maxous, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Nosferatu, SirCakez, Leonshade, Shiro

This is supposedly two dog wagon.

Why is Not Chara the only dog on it?

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:24 pm

In post 9356, PeregrineV wrote:Also, almost50, notchara and I are all dogs.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:26 pm

Spoiler: The VC in question

Explain

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:31 pm

Shit never mind Gamma was replaced by Almost50.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:33 pm

Too many damn replacements.

So great...Now everyone's role is confirmed....This is weird :/ well except Nahdia's.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:34 pm

But they were confirmed not killer N4. So killing may have passed to Nahdia after Maxous had it? I don't like that theory either though. Something is bugging me.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:36 pm

I don't think Almost50 would fake a claim like that though.

Wait a minute ...Nahdia could still be it if godfathered. Nahdia actually hasn't roleblocked anyone who could be roleblocked and confirm it. Almost50 or Nahdia. But I townread Nahdia.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:37 pm

In post 9756, BigYoshiFan wrote:VOTE: MathBlade
Don't trust him, don't trust Gio.

.......Then you should be lynching Gio if that is the case. The only way I am not Town is if Gio is. I am Town. The only way to kill me is via lynching so I would rather not help the evil peoples.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:43 pm

In post 9762, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 9745, JaeReed wrote:Considering he's voting him I'd say so.
If everybody is cleared and Almost50 is the lone scum, then game is over.

Otherwise, scum are faking and fake clearing.

If it takes one of me or Almost to die for someone to look at that possibility, then I pick him over me.

Or it was truth clearing and Nahdia is culted and that is why they were so pissed at me when I first suggested no cult and Maxous was the killer.

Inventor SK seems a bit too broad for this setup. That doesn't really make sense. But a lot of stuff doesn't make sense.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:48 pm

In post 9766, BigYoshiFan wrote:Well, if Gio flips scum it doesn't necessarily mean Math is scum.
If Math flips scum then Gio is probably scum. Hmmm...

If I flip scum Gio has to be scum. Investigative do get the name.

The only way I am scum is with Gio and I would never let Gio connect himself to me like that as scum. I plan every detail to the letter as scum. There is no way in hell this lineup where we are would happen with me as scum.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:49 pm

VOTE: Unvote

Brain be scrambled

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:03 pm

In post 9769, PeregrineV wrote:A Gio townflip would clear who again?

In post 9770, BigYoshiFan wrote:Why don't we just make a big chart explaining who cleared who and what happens if they flip scum and go from there?
Gio townflip clears MathBlade.

That is what I have right now. It is just a clusterfuck and almost destroyed at this point.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:29 pm

In post 9773, SirCakez wrote:
In post 9720, MathBlade wrote:Yes he was lol Cakez
TIL Nosferatu was in this game
PV claim sounds pretty fake to me. Like it's all based on info already out in the open.

A Gio townflip clears someone else besides Math iirc, don't remember who

PV claim would have had to be staged since that wagon and be right only two dogs before a massive claim. PV is probably truth telling.

Gio townflip clears dead people and me...and that is it.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:08 pm

Welcome to Undertale where I am crazy but I think cult turned scum so we have to throw out everything preN4. Asking hood buddies to make sure not insane.

PV you up for a useless dog censor check tonight?

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:08 pm

I am thinking Nahdia Roleblocks you to prove they can.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:16 pm

Boooo that no worky then need someone else.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:27 pm

In post 9428, JaeReed wrote:
In post 9420, Nahdia wrote:No. We've been over this, even. Narna got a result on Creeps20 night 2, which I disputed because I was jailkeeping them last night (I'm used to the alien variation being default), but then I retracted my objection after re-checking my role PM and clarifying that yeah, i only stop killing actions.
someone confirm this happened as stated?

Jailkeeping stops all actions by the person being kept. The Alien version stops checks on he person you Jailkeep. Nahdia is lying.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:28 pm

A Jailkeeper (or Jailer)'s Night Action is one that protects its target from kills, but also Roleblocks its target. Unlike Doctor, Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.
Because it is a combination Doctor and Roleblocker, Jailkeeper has a myriad of uses while not allowing broken combinations or exactly confirming anyone as Town or scum. Thus, it has risen to prominence as a very popular power role.
Because it is a Roleblocker, Jailkeeper is never allowed to self-target.
This role is a non-bastard version of Paranoid Doctor.
Variations

Some Jailkeepers not only protect their target from all kills, but also render its target untargetable by all other actions during that Night. This variant is also known as Alien.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:29 pm

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:31 pm

The only way Nahdia is truth telling is if Maxous blocked them N2 as he claimed. So maxous would have blocked or redirected Nahdia N2. Her Jailkeep could not have gone through.

Therefore I want to see it work.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:31 pm

Their jailkeep* Apologies Nahdia.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:45 pm

Same argument still applies. Massive said he wasn't roleblocked. So Maxous and Nahdia could have been in cahoots and when caught they agree to have Nahdia hard bus Maxous and then when it doesn't look like I have enough cred they try Yoshi then tunnel again.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:46 pm

All game not a single RB has worked of Nahdia's. When I see it work then I will believe they can Jailkeep.

MathBlade · Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:48 pm

VOTE: Almost50

Because hood plans are da bomb yo. JaeReed has hammers and Nahdia jailkeeps CFJ.

MathBlade · Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:00 am

No. I was not ignoring the new faction I am looking for the killer that has been ravaging our lands. Because there is still only one kill a night then if we can eliminate that life becomes so much sweeter.

MathBlade · Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:08 am

Oh and FYI Almost50 if your doggie thing kills me and brings me back to life as an annoying dog (don't answer this) I would be immune as I am immune to all killing effects.

MathBlade · Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:10 am

Cakey please give me an item tonight. But please don't say what it is or hint at it. I think it is important for night 8.

MathBlade · Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:58 pm

In post 9801, callforjudgement wrote:Has Math claimed their actual role yet? I thought the investigative action was an invention, not part of Math's role, so it isn't really correct to say that Math's an investigative.

I am BP. That is it.

I am a low poster on weekends especially when I have Shadowrun tomorrow and I am helping a friend move.

MathBlade · Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:18 pm

In post 9812, Almost50 wrote:It does. Trust me. We're at a point of the game where making you unkillable is worth the sacrifice.

Yep. I like this.

*thumbs up*

*hugs you*

V/LA til Monday

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:15 pm

....This is horrible. I provide a plan to figure out people's alignments in the hood and all of a sudden a SirCakez wagon starts? That can't be a coincidence. Especially since CFJ expresses no problems with the plan in the hood then all of a sudden miraculously has problems with it. If we have enough confirmed townies post Maxous this game breaks.

Again me and Gio is dumb for reasons I already pointed out.

Me Gio and SirCakez is even crazier because then SirCakez as scum would give away a lot of scum power to town repeatedly ad infinitem. The only way SirCakez is scum is post Maxous and there would be 0 reason for me to bus post Maxous and same with Gio. I don't see scum leaving a can't kill check alive that long post Maxous. This theory requires me to be scum with Maxous alone preflip and bus him. I know I am good as scum but there is no way in hell I would try to win against that many people alone as a claimed Bulletproof.

That theory is just insane and either you are derping or don't want to confirm that many townies. I has a plan to confirm peoples. Give me a chance.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:17 pm

We need to confirm Yoshi can't hammer and then JaeReed hammers so that way we have conf townie protected from the NK.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:09 pm

Posting it outside the hood murders one of the reaction tests.

Spoiler:

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:15 pm

You know what fuck it.

Since Nahdia seems unable to Jailkeep as there is no fucking proof it works we need JaeReed alive until endgame if we can. The only way to reliably confirm that is Almost50. Nahdia can claim Strongman kill again if we say Nahdia protect JaeReed assuming Nahdia is actually an SK. We need JaeReed alive and to confirm that Nahdia can Jailkeep by doing what was said in the hood. A Jailkeep SK at start of the game along with Maxous seems ridiculous so then if Nahdia is scum it would be post Maxous but Nahdia mechanically looks like a SK so I want to eliminate that possibility once and for all and have them actually jailkeep.

SirCakez passes me an item of unknown origin. Gio then on N8 has to check me to prove he is a follower. He hasn't done anything post Maxous that wasn't obvious. This would then eliminate the concern on Gio once and for all if he is a follower. If SirCakez gets lynched we have no way of confirming Gio is a follower because there would be no one or Nahdia to follow.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:19 pm

Acting outside of what was proposed in the hood at that point would be a scum claim. We can confirm Nahdia is a Jailkeep tonight and have myself JaeReed Nahdia and maybe one other person all confirmed not cult into tomorrow. That is what I want to do. But in order to do that Almost50 has to annoying dog JaeReed.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:03 pm

Happy New Year!

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:17 pm

In post 9851, SirCakez wrote:CFJ being scum trying to get the wagon off his scumbuddy A50 would make a shitload of sense here.

I don't think Almost50 is scum here. I just don't think people don't want a second round of conf towns or to have to lie. If Nahdia is Jailkeep and is forced to hit <redacted>. If redacted is jailkept it will be obvious. If redacted is not jailkept it will be obvious. That is why we need JaeReed to hammer almost50.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:18 pm

I just think* wow thought merge *blush*

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:36 pm

In post 9855, BigYoshiFan wrote:A few things, MathBlade.
1. Is there any reason to believe that Maxous told the truth about who he blocked?
2. When you say "post-Maxous", what exactly do you mean?

1. Yes. When I baited him out with the possibility of living I pretended to work with him. Furthermore Gio would have had to lie on D2 with his results as well while being psychic and know that it would help Maxous down the line. I don't see scum intentionally setting up a scenario where they have to lie. Therefore Gio is likely telling the truth and with how the D2 claims played out then it implies Maxous ascetic.

2. After Maxous's new faction thingy.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:38 pm

In post 9856, BigYoshiFan wrote:Also, are you claiming that Gio is cleared because he called out Maxous as an ascetic?

Partially but also how he did. Shiro was an outed rolecop and wasn't killed. This gives credence to Gio Town as well as if Gio was lying about being a weak follower Shiro would have been a threat N3. Instead he is able to check Cakez and be in the hood. This means Gio was not with Maxous.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:40 pm

This also means that if Maxous was not the killer at the start of the game it has to be Ank or Nahdia FMPOV.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:53 pm

I did not accuse you of gamethrowing in the slightest.

Having almost have the group fucking confirmed by tomorrow is a pretty big ass deal when we don't know how many evil people there are. We need confirmed town at this point.

I dare you to call me anti Town when I have to fucking drag people to the right things and they still do the wrong ones. I dare you. People voted Creeps because he was fucking VLA. I have had to claw and fight because people don't think about mechanics like I do. They just go bastard and fucking discard them.

I understand the gravity of the situation and I am trying to protect people in order to do so. I want to fucking demonstrate my townread of Gio to you all so you can see that I am indeed fucking conftown and JaeReed and I will be two unkillable conftown a (well except if someone has a strongman) and then any evil will be forced to murder and lynch each other.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:55 pm

In post 9863, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9861, MathBlade wrote:This also means that if Maxous was not the killer at the start of the game it has to be Ank or Nahdia FMPOV.
Ankamius was not the killer at the start of the game. A solo SK would have no method of knowing when lylo was. A role like Ankamius' (which is pretty much confirmed as existing by the kill on Not Chara) would have to have a restriction preventing it functioning in lylo or the day before, in order to avoid a surprise endgame, which would be a huge setup design mistake (and something that reviewers nearly always check for, especially in setups which have screwy faction or kill setups).

Lol not true. Shadowrun had a gungiver that wiped out LyLO for Town. A role as Ank has claimed may or may not have a LyLO restriction and if this is multiball there is very little concept of LyLO.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:56 pm

In post 9865, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 9861, MathBlade wrote:This also means that if Maxous was not the killer at the start of the game it has to be Ank or Nahdia FMPOV.
Whom you are both accusing as being third-party members, correct?

Nahdia primarily but Ank just gives me the jeebies and I have a way of confirming if Nahdia is town so I want to do that.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:01 pm

Exactly. If Gio was lying about being a weak follower Shiro could have confirmed that by hitting him. As scum it is much too high a risk to keep someone alive who can confirm you are a liar. Hence Gio is more townie yes.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:19 pm

In post 9871, callforjudgement wrote:The Shiro argument is plausible, I'll have to reread that.

However I think it exposes a flaw in some of the assumptions you've been making in other arguments. Here's a question that should expose it: Are you assuming that the killer pre-Maxous-flip was aligned with Maxous, or not? If they were, then is the killer now aligned with Maxous?

Two killers is very unlikely considering we have had 7 nights in a row without two kills. And one was a vig shot declared by Ank. If there are two kills tonight Ank is confirmed scum and a liar because he is claimed VT and I doubt (assuming two scum teams) they both would randomly hit Narna after leaving Narna alone.

I was hypothesizing both ways.

If the killer was Maxous then a new scum team formed and hence Narna's death.
If it was not Maxous my money is on Nahdia.

I am also thinking with how much Nahdia insisted a new group had to exist Nahdia is likely a part of it. I just need a chance to prove Nahdia can't Jailkeep and unless JaeReed is protected then he dies tonight more than likely.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:23 pm

Well except last night*

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:30 pm

Then you won't mind proving it after we make sure JaeReed is okay. Then we conf town you and all is happy go lucky with three conf towns going into the next day.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:33 pm

I am not making assumptions. I am making hypothesis and following them to their logical conclusion.

I am not assuming a team. I am saying either there is an SK or Gio would have to be on a team with Maxous ergo team. Gio cannot be the SK and know Maxous was ascetic without also being the follower he claimed and not be sweating bullets about Shiro. Please reread after sleep.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:34 pm

Spoiler: Gio first claim weak Maxous

@Yoshi -- D2

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:37 pm

Shiro was lynched not killed D4. This strongly implies that Gio is telling the truth about being weak.

In contrast this does not apply for Nahdia because SK's generally get some sort of investigation immunity which presents like a block (1 shot, ascetic, something...) especially in a 20+ player game.

Shiro is a good PR person. He would check. Hell he jailkept me 5 (I think) times in Mass Effect Mafia.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:50 pm

In post 9883, callforjudgement wrote:An investigation immunity, to stop Narna, would have had to be something Godfather-like. An Ascetic-like would have produced different results ("blocked" versus "can't kill"). Psychologist isn't Tracker or Follower.

Hence I said "something" because godfather and things from my not online days would handle it.

MathBlade · Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:12 pm

I am going to bed.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:01 am

In post 9887, Ankamius wrote:You know that feeling that I've been getting about what we''re doing being a trap?

I'm getting that feeling again.

BigYoshiFan is sounding very fake today.

You said that before our only Not town lynch.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:53 am

All we need to protect JaeReed is Nahdia vote Almost50 and then Yoshi attempts a hammer and fails then JaeReed does and all is good. Cmon Nahdia then we prove you are what you say you are and nothing else and then one person dies (if two lynch Ank immediately) then

PV, Nahdia, JaeReed, myself hard town reads afterward. Let's trap the scums!!! Do not let them wiggle out of this.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:07 am

Oh and Yoshi too in the hard town reads after tonight.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:05 am

In post 9893, Nahdia wrote:so. i just. vote a50? right now? that's what im doing?

Yup. Please and thanks.

Then Yoshi proves no has hammers.
Then JaeReed does hammer.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:16 am

Yoshi goooooo!

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:17 am

In post 9895, Nahdia wrote:VOTE: a50

ok i trust u i guess. sorry i've been pretty absent this day.

Probably if I ever die you'll know why and can carry the torch assuming you be Town.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:26 am

In post 9902, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 9882, MathBlade wrote:Shiro was lynched not killed D4. This strongly implies that Gio is telling the truth about being weak.
How?

In contrast this does not apply for Nahdia because SK's generally get some sort of investigation immunity which presents like a block (1 shot, ascetic, something...) especially in a 20+ player game.

Shiro is a good PR person. He would check. Hell he jailkept me 5 (I think) times in Mass Effect Mafia.

Not if he townread Gio, probably. They had Night 3 to target Gio but targeted... who? I have something written here but I made it quite confusing. Shiro targeted Narna N3?

How? -- Asked and answered.
Rolecop is used irrelevant of reads if someone claimed. If Shiro had lived he would have been a threat.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:02 pm

Omg. Wtf a 4 person scum team + 2/3 from a Maxous is impossible. I am conf town and JaeReed is conf town.

That is impossible because 10-3 is 7. That makes JaeReed Almost50 and I the only Town which in that case ensuring JaeReed lives becomes even more important.

Gotta go again adulting still.

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:52 pm

In post 9958, callforjudgement wrote:Right, Cakez definitely has the role claimed (I received an invention D1, so have personal experience of that); PV also almost certainly has the role claimed. I'm not sure that either role has a definitive indication of faction built into it (and nearly all the claimed roles are at least town-suggestive). Of course, if the scumteam is made out of converted players, they'd presumably still have their original, town-suggestive roles; come to think of it, looking at the power roles that seem to exist, all of them seem to be designed so that a) they're potentially useful for any faction (assuming multiball), and b) they wouldn't be gamebreaking in scum hands. (For example, look at how long Ankamius had to power up before killing; I think that slot's town, but if it hypothetically had been culted, it wouldn't exactly make the cult unstoppable.)

That said, one of the points against SirCakez is that the way he's been
using
the Inventor shots is flat-out weird. I don't think I've ever seen an Inventor focus the shots on one person before, even if they are bulletproof, and why would you give Bodyguard (which kills the user, if it does anything at all) to a townread? Meanwhile, we can't get this sort of read on PeregrineV because the role doesn't obviously do anything useful other than confirming itself; it's been used in about the most pro-town way possible, but that would have been both easy and fairly harmless to fake as scum.

Because giving a bodyguard to a scumread is worse. You give bodyguard to someone you think is a low power or VT role so they can die saving the high power role. It is swingy but that should absolutely be given to a townread. Hell given to me I could take the shot for the townie and no one die because I am infinite shot BP. Like a convoluted doctor. Focusing on a townread forces SirCakez if scum to give me the toys and the toys stay in Town hands. Never to go to scum. Therefore by lynching SirCakez we remove townpower indirectly.

How many toys do you have left Cakez?

MathBlade · Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:48 pm

In post 9963, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9962, MathBlade wrote:Because giving a bodyguard to a scumread is worse. You give bodyguard to someone you think is a low power or VT role so they can die saving the high power role. It is swingy but that should absolutely be given to a townread. Hell given to me I could take the shot for the townie and no one die because I am infinite shot BP. Like a convoluted doctor. Focusing on a townread forces SirCakez if scum to give me the toys and the toys stay in Town hands. Never to go to scum. Therefore by lynching SirCakez we remove townpower indirectly.
A bodyguard shot is entirely harmless in scum's hands; they can't usefully use it.
A bodyguard shot in the hands of an obvtown player is pointless, as they can't save another player without dying themselves (not even if they're bulletproof).
A bodyguard shot in the hands of a scummy-looking townie is very powerful; they can die in the place of someone confirmed, which has the same amount of power as confirming themselves (assuming the shot hits).

Again. All these things I agree with so it is better to give it to a townread.

MathBlade · Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:18 am

Then we let SirCakez funnel his toys to me and then if you still think Cakez is scum lynch him. No reason to deny Town power because of a SirCakez scum read when he is leashed. If I ever don't get something I will be the first to vote hims.

The fact this wagon has except for some of the N clan the same people voting Creeps makes me hella suspicious of if. Would much rather want a PV wagon.

VOTE: Peregrine V

MathBlade · Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:07 am

Furthermore if SirCakez ever visits anyone but me then SirCakez would be claiming scum. He gave me a way to verify him and I don't think scum would blatantly do that. As much as SirCakez pings me I don't think that SirCakez's lynch is the right one today.

MathBlade · Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:24 pm

In post 9969, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9967, MathBlade wrote:Furthermore if SirCakez ever visits anyone but me then SirCakez would be claiming scum. He gave me a way to verify him and I don't think scum would blatantly do that. As much as SirCakez pings me I don't think that SirCakez's lynch is the right one today.
You do realise this argument doesn't work for anyone but you and Gio, right? It rather presupposes you're town, so won't be convincing much to anyone else.
(Additionally, if SirCakez is scum without a kill, or groupscum where a buddy can kill, verifying SirCakez's entire set of night actions wouldn't prove anything but that they were in fact the Inventor, which is fairly obvious at this point and doesn't need verifying.)

As far as I can see, you've spent the past few (real-life) days trying to deflect the lynch on SirCakez off tenuous reasoning. If you were townreading him, that's one thing; trying to stop the lynch of someone you think is a townread, or preferring the lynch of someone more likely to be scum, is entirely reasonable. However, scumreading him and yet trying to prevent the lynch, without stating good reasons, is problematic and makes it look hugely like you're scum together. It'd be as silly as lynching a townread in possible lylo.

Let me put things this way: it's only Gio's night result that's keeping me from voting you right now. That's how antitown I think you're playing.

My brain is fried from about 4 hours of job applications but let me put this in the simplest way I know how.

I neither scumread nor townread SirCakez. I used to townread him pretty damn hard.

However I have others I scumread more eg PV. Since everyone is mechanically confirmed at this point except Nahdia which I hope will happen overnight I am forced to play on something I hate playing on which is gut. I'm a mechanical player by nature. Forcing me to be outside of that nature will always appear scummy.

SirCakez has been using his role in a protown manner and has been leashed. I will always write my logic coming from a me town stance because I am town. I cannot see a world in which I am not town because I am town. I can do small hypothesis from time to time as if I'm scum, e.g. if I'm scum why would I do this? But I can't not be town so I can't write in such a way that assumes me not town.

SirCakez if town is also leashed and forced to give all the toys to me and therefore we won't lose them. If he dies what he may think of as an insignificant tool may help town break the game. As soon as D4 hit people have been pressuring SirCakez right around the same time his role was revealed in the hood. This to me feels like a coordinated effort to get rid of a town PR. I has no proof I'm playing by gut but that's where I stand on it. PV IMHO is a much better lynch.

MathBlade · Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:37 pm

Not because fuck you. It's because it came preMaxous and all it says is not killer. You could have become a killer post Maxous and could also have a thing that makes you look not killer. It's not fuck you it's that your jailkeep has never once worked and it sketches me out.

MathBlade · Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:39 pm

I checked JaeReed in the same way. I apply the same standards to everyone. *glares* And I sure as hell do not say fuck you to someone unless they are a blatant liar and have pushed me over the goddamn edge of anger. So no don't fuck you I'm just sketched out. Huge difference.

MathBlade · Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:40 pm

In post 9977, SirCakez wrote:I'm basically ignoring Narna's check at this point because of how much evidence there is that it can be compromised fyi

Also hey we're breaking length records

Challenge accepted. Where are the length records?

I wanna compare a few games to them.

MathBlade · Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:14 pm

In post 9980, Almost50 wrote:@Math:

Two things:

1- Some of us may still have a problem with Cakez giving YOU of -all people- his toys. He already said he has 2 more and they're not as useful, so why not hand these to someone else and have them checked. Why can't I get one and have Gio follow me, which also confirms my alignment btw, and thus I will become the unkillable IC.

2- Why would scum try to get rid of the inventor after he has already given out his most powerful tools and only has a couple of weak ones? If I was scum I'd want to get rid of the two roles I can't kill at night, and that would be yours and mine.

You have a problem with confirmed town getting toys? Per him they aren't useful. I've caught scum before over a single word on another site I play on so I don't view things as not as useful.

Because he is one of the more useful roles IMHO in the game and is an easier mislynch.
They already tried me and I'm conf towned now.

And I know I know you all are going to say that I'm not conf town because I could be scum with Gio but that requires Gio to draw heat to me and again look at Shadowrun look at my scum games. I don't do stupid things like associations as scum. You all have said I'm not scum. So don't let anyone who isn't conf town have toys. I am literally the best option right now because I'm conf town and I don't die at night without a strongman kill.

You may think I'm an idiot or playing anti town but there should be 0 doubt my alignment is town. Shade thrown at me has a -20 modifier because I'm so obvTowning.

Your plan about Gio following you or anyone else is fundamentally flawed because you are saying that you won't trust Gio until he follows you and gets a result yet you trust him enough obviously to think SirCakez is scum with him. Then why don't you trust him enough to trust his results previously? You can't trust and not trust Gio.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:56 am

Corrections then you want Gio lynched. The only way I am not scum is with Gio.
Again we are on the same fucking day as Math is town posts both of you have made.

Misreading me is ridiculous ATM but if you are at least be smart about it.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:56 am

In post 9986, MathBlade wrote:Corrections then you want Gio lynched. The only way I am not scum is with Gio.
Again we are on the same fucking day as Math is town posts both of you have made.

Misreading me is ridiculous ATM but if you are at least be smart about it.

Am *

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:00 am

If JaeReed wasn't conf VT I would swear that you and he were scum together based on how lynches happened so far.

This is pure bullshit. You are flipping your read because I don't go along with stupid plans.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:12 am

In post 9989, SirCakez wrote:I'm not going to give stuff to scum Almost
I'd be willing to give them to Jae if Math is really THAT much of a concern.

It doesn't matter who you say you would give stuff too. In the hood apparently I am scummy for trying to scumhunt. It is bullshit and people are repeating the same damn mistakes and calling themselves so smart for it. Ignoring concrete information post Maxous to make it work.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:12 am

In post 9990, JaeReed wrote:
In post 9988, MathBlade wrote:You are flipping your read because I don't go along with stupid plans.
LOL

No, I was always scumreading you, so no. I thought you wouldn't pull what you did as scum, but as 3rd party? possibly.

No you weren't. I will go find the fucking post.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:15 am

In post 9262, JaeReed wrote:Yeah I thought the thread was still at where I had read for some reason.

UNVOTE:

I don't have any reads I'm comfortable with pushing to a lynch now. Math wouldn't have brought up what they did as scum I think.

This is the same fucking day.

Now fucking stop lying to yourself and start playing mafia with something other than gut. It is what got all the other mislynches like Creeps instead of PV. What the ever loving fuck was that? Oh player is on claimed VLA for the holidays must be scum. Stop that bullshit.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:16 am

Day before*

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:16 am

Please tell me logically what changed besides me trying and failing to stop a lynch on an obvTown read of mine.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:21 am

It is always potential LyLO with that argument JaeReed because we don't know squat.

And I point out a contradiction and JaeReed just screams MathBlade needs to be lynched.

The contradiction is saying he has always scumread me. Not true.
You can't read me at all and beyond that you are screaming and being rather illogical. The only way I am any not Town is if Gio is. You should be screaming for Gio's head in that case.

I did not leash Nahdia it was a suggestion they went along with because it is ridiculous how many times their Jailkeep has failed including two voluntary not submissions N3 and N5. I do not trust they are a Jailkeeper and I want them to prove it.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:24 am

In post 9999, JaeReed wrote:(I may be drunk but I endorse all of the above while sober because I love myself enough to know I make better decisions while drunk than any other time)

Seriously, please lynch SirCakez if you want to follow someone who is town.
Then lynch MathBlade.

No. you don't. This is literal evidence of that.

You are on a wagon with a lot of the same people who lynched Creeps.
You are ignoring the prerequisite that Gio must be scum for me to be.

If you seriously believed I was scum and sober you would be screaming for Gio's head.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:35 am

Nahdia went along with it in a simple one word gotcha post.

And I wonder why you would object to Nahdia if she is a Jailkeeper protecting the last useful PR we would have left.

Or is it that you know she isn't a Jailkeeper. If you can throw out the mechanical conf townieness I have through Gio I can ignore the VT claims because oooooh I think like JaeReed because all I do is post while drunk and I should take a step back and think but nooo I am going to push Math because I don't like how they play and they won't vote who I think is scum so they have to be scum with me.

You realize Almost50 is off the damn wagon and you townread Almost50. If this was LyLO Almost50 would be scum.

I highly doubt this is LyLO. Man if I didn't have that VT confirmation I would say it would be you and CFJ.

On and Ank another townread of yours not on the wagon. Wtf are you doing in your own proposed LyLO voting with a scumread of yours Gio? You make no sense right now. If I was a cop I would pull you over for posting while intoxicated and leverage a no posting anywhere til sober fine.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:50 am

Again I point out inconsistencies and your only response is spam. Lovely.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:50 am

I am stepping away from the thread so people actually read and see what a shit storm you are posting.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:53 am

One last thing before I do. JaeReed is fucking scumreading me for using the goddamn Neo the way it is meant to be used. *rolls eyes* Such brilliance personified. /sarcasm

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:19 am

...This is complete bullshit now Yoshi is bolding random words. I literally cannot explain myself when people aren't using logic and would rather trust their friend Jim Bean than their brains.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:20 am

And apologies to Nahdia they*

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:21 am

In post 10012, Ankamius wrote:Mathblade, here's the thing.

Each investigative role we have this game is nerfed heavily in some way.
My role is a confirmed killing role,
which is an investigative role
.
You are claiming to be a bulletproof townie.

Do you see how that doesn't make sense with the rest of the setup?

Killing roles are killing roles.

Investigative roles are ones like cop watcher.

And I am claiming it because it is true numb nuts. If I was scum I would come up with a better claim like I did in Shadowrun Mafia when I was Alien instead of JK.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:23 am

Well Alien is a JK so it was only misleading but still. As Town I don't try to make things for I look at the situation and find the liars.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:24 am

Honestly I wish I would quit drawing BP. It is going to be damn synonymous with my username.

MathBlade · Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:27 am

Furthermore you are threatening to lynch the goddamn person with a toy that could blow this game open simply because I won't lynch SirCakez. I could have hammered him a billion times over but no one has given a goddamn reason why Cakez is scum other than "dayplay" or "gut" or "scumread". This is some of the worst mafia play I have seen. It disgusts me.