Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Heartless]

but srsly...

i have no idea what any of that means.

[Heartless]

in my official capacity as someone who knows mollie...

i still have no clue what that means

[Heartless]

there was never a point i came to in the post where i thought "these reads are legit"

that's what makes me think it was something cobbled together to sound good.

i don't know what "context" there's supposed to be for this.

[Heartless]

Given my slowness to learn, that's probably my fault. While I am all about relationships in group dynamics (this wagon is on scum bc town vote and stall), mollie is more about this guy will/won't get lynched bc thread interest and vote motion as it happens. She's never been big on explaining reads but just seeing and controlling the wave of people and what each person will/won't do.

oh yeah... she calls that "the town herd"

...

i still don't know the relevance to this. sorry.

[Heartless]

I made a catch-up post because I believe it beneficial for myself and others who want to productively engage with me in syncing with the game.

I did the exact same thing when I replaced at a similar point in the game in RC's League of Legends Mafia: gave my opinion on all the players, said who my top townreads were, and said who I was willing to lynch. I also talked about major talking points I would like to consider while moving forwards.

If you really think that's scummy I can't help you anymore.

i mean.... you can help me by talking more about reads and why you have them

maybe start w/ infinity?

[Heartless]

I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.

ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.

when did this happen and where was it scummy?

[Heartless]

Then in reply to Nero, he concocts a moonshine gasoline theory that my conversation with Nero was pre-emptively setting myself up to push for a mastina lynch later on.

errrrrk

ok so here's your reply to nero in question:

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

i'm also wondering why you caved so easily when nero challenged you on the mastin townread. that was supposedly one of two confident townreads you said you had in your first post and that gets washed out by... what exactly? you didn't consider the possibility of mastin bussing, nero had to bring it up first?

i would think you'd stand up for the read more than you did.

What the hell are my motivations with progressing a fake read on mastina from town to scummy?

staying out of nero's way. bend the read without necessarily breaking.

i like moonshine gasoline as much as the next guy, but i don't think it's crazy.

[Heartless]

I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning.

ok, like this. here's a concrete assertion about infinity and what he's done.

when did this happen and where was it scummy?

Can't dig up to quote the exact posts b/c mobile, but

Towards the end of D1, with around 3 real-life days left, he is getting antsy about wagons and expresses discontent with trying to move the current wagon. Several people tell him his worries are unfounded. In reference to "admitting" something, I also recall him saying something along the lines of "I'd rather lynch town than no one." When push came to shove, though, he had no qualms about actually moving the wagons around. I may have to review the timings of those D1 wagons to get a better picture but overall, I don't think his voting nature was genuine and I would definitely describe it as opportunistic.

ok i guess i'll wait for the quote compilation because i'm not even following the basic structure of the argument

[Heartless]

Maybe they change details. Maybe they omit details. Scum have an ability only scum would ever have? That might be absent from the town version of their claim. But they keep it as close to the theme material as possible. They match safeclaims as closely to the original as possible.

Can someone else verify this?

yes

mastin is right on this count

[Heartless]

Feel like I'm talking to a brick wall but here goes.

no no no

i UNDERSTAND what you're trying to sell just fine.

i'm just not buying it for a second. who softens a hard townread on the say-so of a mixed read and a null read? nobody (nobody town anyway). no sale.

and you didn't even bother to ask nero or pv for a specific game that illustrated their point so don't try to give me anything about deference

[Heartless]

cake plz vote zefiend
mastin plz vote zefiend

[Heartless]

Titus will get away though <.<

no don't give me that

zefiend is scum. you see it. i see it.

let's get this done.

[Heartless]

I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.

what aj is referring to as zefiend's "flailing" (kind of an imprecise word, imo) is well on the baseline i've seen from his scumgame. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65913

[Heartless]

Will you help lynch Titus tomorrow?

if we're around and we're scumreading her

yes

[Heartless]

Read them and tell me there is no inconsistency with Infinity's mannerisms towards EoD D1.

yeah.... what i see is a bunch of quotes and i STILL have no idea what the conclusion i'm supposed to draw from them is. what's supposed to be out-of-sorts here?

By the way, you are no longer engaging me in good faith. I have tried to explain everything to you. Despite you saying that you understand my points, you are conf-biasing based on my entry post. Your DEFAULT is to assume everything I'm saying afterward is bullshit even though I'm being transparent as possible with my thought process. There is no productive development here.

so throwing a bunch of quotes at me constitutes the good faith effort on your part and now it's back on me?

nice try, but that's not "engagement"

1) I showed you a game that you were in where I did the exact same sort of catch-up post as town

....and the fact that you had that game on-hand tells me you're very ACUTELY aware of the meta so... no, no townie-points for you.

2) you assume me to be the type of player who holds my town-reads in high esteem when I am quite the opposite,

given that the probability of townreads are FAR more likely to be accurate than scumreads just through sheer numbers, this is a very illogical habit, but whatever...

and you claim that because I didn't ask Nero & Pere for games, I shouldn't take their opinion into account

now you're misstating my issue. the issue isn't "taking other people's opinions into account." it's "there's this strange absence of YOUR own judgment and/or curiosity in this WHOLE process." that should be present even when you're taking other people's opinions into account. ESPECIALLY when the "other people" are null reads. unless you're in the habit of taking null reads' opinions at face value and there's no fucking way

[Heartless]

oh and, you know, i'm glad you brought up RC's game again because i remember IMMEDIATELY townreading that catchup (because you were town that time) so no you can't claim i'm just scumreading style

[Heartless]

cakez, please vote zefiend

[Heartless]

How was I not taking my own judgment into account? As a first time player with mastina I picked up on a pure tonal read on her which led me to believe she was town. As the only person who commented on her tone this game (besides perhaps herself) how can you assert that my independent thoughts weren't going into this process?

NOW we're not even talking about the same event

^this is talking about the formulation of the initial mastin "read"

i was talking about how you approached PV and nero's input

[Heartless]

That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina

what were these points?

[Heartless]

Heartless, when can we take out the trash and you stop attacking people who disagree with you? They've silenced everyone else.

who am i "attacking"? what are u talking about?

[Heartless]

So you aren't scumreading her. This is a problem.

are you scumreading zefiend?
do you trust me+tth's judgment?

if the answers to both those are yes, then there really is no problem at all. i am asking you to vote a scumread.

cake, plz vote zefiend

[Heartless]

To be clear Heartless, you're SRing people who disagree with you (zefiend) and ignoring the the whole gamestate.

if you really think this, your own grasp on the gamestate is quite tenuous

[Heartless]

and you're just sitting there fighting with zefiend over lord knows what?

i suggest you read the exchange before dismissing it

[Heartless]

That might as well be a neon sign that balance is shit this game.

firebringer is actually pretty good about balance imo

[Heartless]

Hey anti

Why is molla town again

You're really close, but I think it would be antitown to push you there.

well there's really no unringing that bell now, so i think clarification is better

Can you clarify your BBMolla read and why?

town, vanillaized claim/occam's razor

[i also happen to think molla's role being a scum role would prob create very problematic balance issues but i guess that's just me, what do i know about balancing setups?]

[Heartless]

I will read it again, but I got nothing useful out of it and a hankering to drink to understand. You basically jyst said scum catchup and word vomited to me.

plz read it. IF NOTHING ELSE, read this:

in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.

[Heartless]

yo heartless whats your position on making DP rogue leader

i don't really think it's that important. if enough ppl vote him RL then fine but if we stay on also fine.

[Heartless]

You should look at Smackdown.

will do

[Heartless]

The balance issues are fair. But why wouldn't molla gambit like that?

i don't really have a good answer for that question because it is entirely possible the whole things a gambit.

i just don't think it's likely.

[Heartless]

Sorry my mistake.
The answer to that is no.
There are circumstances where players can use more than 1 action, but in general no.

I should get my morning coffee.

uhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Heartless]

ok so just to clarify on that:

mod, you're saying it is generally not possible for someone to use their special character ability and any normal ability they may have at the same time

~Character Special and Normal can be used at same time.

[Heartless]

Welp, TWIE and Molla just confirmed as town.

huh?

[Heartless]

I have been right all game.

right about what?

i can't believe you'd call me an egoist and then turn around and say shit like this

[Heartless]

mastina, plz vote zefiend

[Heartless]

So his town read on Mastina was shot to hell.

lol

[Heartless]

I'm going to just full on claim JailKeeper right here. Character name Mon Mothma.

if this has not been done.
would like to know targets from this one.

he says cakez

[Heartless]

it is my understanding the a JK, makes the "target" untargetable.
"no result" was not my result label.

this variant of jk is rarely used on this site

[Heartless]

I get the following results: No Result, X visited X,
or X visited no one, not complex.

I got that sir cakez visited no one.
so what am I missing here, but the fun?

you're missing the part where you say if pine targeted bbmolla or not

[Heartless]

I like the slot when it belonged to Aero.

Zef filling in makes it look shitty, and nothing like a hero

.

please be more specific.

while you're at it go ahead and vote him

[Heartless]

oh noes u rly taught me a lesson in pronouns w/o antecedents

[Heartless]

huehuehuehuehuehueheueheueheuek;lfajkdsjcodwie;382ncovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvp8429445555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

[Heartless]

That in combination with Nero's points heavily challenged my one-dimensjonal read on mastina

what were these points?

This is the bulk of the conversation with Pere and Nero about mastin

Spoiler:

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

mastin not giving specifics is NAI

maybe maybe not. Sure I've seen town not give reasons but that's bad town play. I'd like to think that Mastin is not bad.

I think scum are plenty capable of doing so. Infact you keep going on about how you've played with Titus scum. She hard defends/town reads her buddies all the time.

Yeah I'm not really buying into the whole "no way would I bus Pine since we are besties from way back." I think you'd bus him/he'd want to be bussed if it gave scum a tactical advantage. As soon as he used his ability he was very likely to get lynched and scum would have known this day 1.

I'm no where near having read the whole game, but I started with a Pine ISO and jumped into points there.

@Mastin-

My biggest issue with your claim is the point in time you came up with your Pine scumread (post 512).
You then "read", and confirm it with your vote 520.

this is followed by "Molla might be scum" (521). Based on progression, this read comes from:
[...long ass spoiler...] Which looks like a bunch of /Gin posting

But, by 584, you have sloidifdied that Pine-a-tronics is scum.

At least she's Town this game.

Yes I am! You, however, are your usual scumfuck self!

And this:

Pine is also scum. I prefer to vote Pine, in spite of SirCakez being scum, because lynching scum is lynching scum. The who or the why isn't as important as the act itself. Obviously I'll vote SirCakez if I can't lynch Pine. That goes without saying. But Pine is the scum I would prefer to lynch, because my scumread there is not only stronger, it is also on a firmer basis (I know Pine better), with better reasons, and also on someone who WILL slip away if you let him go.

Meanwhile, neither head of the hydra tries really hard to break you from your read, nor do they try to engage you that I can see. If your sure Pine is scum based on his 5 posts, yet the Gin side does nothign to affect your read?

Sounds kind of fake.

Triple ISO of Pine-Mastin-Molla

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=69912&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=28641&user_select%5B%5D=29138&user_select%5B%5D=16026&user_sort=Go

I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

I think Mastina's timeline jazz is just fucking strongly worded bullshit but if you actually read it then it makes no sense. For all intents and purposes we'll assume Mastina is scum in this post. Like Pine had a role that publicly outs his action. Both him and Mastina would know this. Her main argument here is that scum wouldn't know who was getting into the crew, however, this totally ignores that Heartless

DID

state who she wanted in the crew. Why does she gloss over that? Also, from what I understand, Pine joined late so its possible that scum used their action once it was confirmed there was no scum in the crew.

So explain to me why I should just accept that Mastina is town and their history let her scum read Pine. When A.) it makes sense to bus a player that will eventually go down. B.) She was strong arming said lynch with little to no reason. Why couldn't she have just said "oh this post and this post and this post gives me bad vibes." As long winded as she is she could have done so and I don't think she ever did wich I think is sketchy as fuck.

The only problem I have with your logic is when you say Pine "will eventually go down." I don't know if there's credence to that statement before the guilty result comes out.

As to your second point, I will admit that my initial read of the game placed mastina as Town because I didn't think her tone was being faked; that it would come from a bus. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. But if you and other vets in the game are saying this is within scum!mastina's range, I will also give you the benefit of the doubt. I absolutely hate being tricked by tone and my gut feeling is that mastina's was Town who just had a really good tell on Pine. If enough people tell me that my gut is being stupid, I'll stop relying on it.

Pine & Mastin interaction was zero. And most of the "Pine" was the other hydra head.
Mastina did not "sort" PineTornics, she already knew he was scum.
And he didn't fight it, no matter how often she repeated it over and over again, because no way did they want a 1v1 with each other.

yeah... no, you have now formally surrendered the right to bitch about "engagement" with me because the point of me asking was for you to state the reasoning IN YOUR OWN WORDS not to just glibly quote posts, which i can already see.

[Heartless]

Aeronaut's interpretation of Jailkeeper in that game goes against what some of y'all are saying is normal/standard on MS.

i have seen this variation of jk used before on this site, but only by mods not from this site (i believe aero is one of these iirc)

the only precedence i can find of fire's is that he used the MS definition of jailkeeper in mass effect http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8174705

[Heartless]

Am I wrong?

not about where i stand on bbmolla

you do what you feel like you have to, mastin. if you don't trust my reads beyond zefiend, i can respect that. and i can see how you have a scumread on molla bc frankly his posting sucks. but i have a very hard time bringing myself to think that fire thought molla's role (as a scum role) would be acceptable w/ ari's role AND that rc would let that through, not to mention i think they would have a hard time balancing molla+pine's powers.

[Heartless]

Do you think Cakez is scum Infinity?

/hey nero

i want to talk to you a little more about cakez. at around the beginning of the day in the rogue pt, we talked about this: infinity and tth thought cake was town but zefiend's Post 2615 reminded me of exactly why i didn't.

I agree. How do you think scum react to their buddies getting wagoned?

redirect the wagon to another, more lynchable target(s)

This Pine wagon sucks, I'd prefer any of Klingon, Thinker and AJ

tbh, it's actually spooking me a little on my zefiend read since i don't think crossbussing is likely here.

so... why is cakez town?

[Heartless]

Why are you pushing on me?

i'm not pushing, my intent was to be taken at face value. you voted cake for RL so i asked why you're townreading him.

[Heartless]

can we lynch zefiend now?

[Heartless]

molla, plz vote zefiend

[Heartless]

Did you review Smackdown Heartless?

VOTE: Cakez

i did

i didn't learn anything

[Heartless]

Did you review Smackdown Heartless?

VOTE: Cakez

i did

i didn't learn anything

i mean.... i didn't read the WHOLE game, but i did skim zefiend's ISO and i looked at the mod ISO for the VCs and it doesn't look like zefiend ever came under any significant pressure. so yeah... he was a lot lurkier but that's prob because everyone let him get away w it. in the game i saw him as scum (and got lynched d1) he wasn't lurky. pressure seems to make him more active.

[Heartless]

option d: i already did link it and you're just making noise

I'd argue that flailing is 10x more likely to come from town than scum.

what aj is referring to as zefiend's "flailing" (kind of an imprecise word, imo) is well on the baseline i've seen from his scumgame. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65913

[Heartless]

seriously titus what is with this chip on your shoulder?

no, i'm not scumreading zefiend for disagreeing. with anything. if i end up being wrong about him, i'll own it. don't paint this as an ego trip.

and if i actually had something against you i would've either /outed or woto'd you from this game AND i wouldn't have even bothered replying to you. so... yeah that's a bunch of nonsense too.

snap out of it.

[Heartless]

oh hey cakez, while you're here

why are you scumreading bbmolla?

[Heartless]

I want to be able to talk to you and have some hope you will listen. If you view that as an ego trip, I will sub out.

note that i said that i wasn't ego tripping specifically because that's exactly what you accused me of doing

The very sentence structure in the game you linked was short bursts with little information. The zefiend here is long winded and detailed.

"sentence structure" doesn't reveal that much about alignment to me. i would also challenge your characterization of zefiend's posting as "detailed." long winded, yes. but detailed, no. in fact, the details are very, very, very much wanting and when PRESSED for details all he seems to be able to do is throw quote walls at me Post 2361 and Post 2612

the CLOSEST he comes to what I would consider being "detailed" is actually the sircakez post Post 2615 which is the only redemptive part of an otherwise flat analysis

So, yeah I have a bit of frustration. So either help me, or tell me to get out before I go insane with Nero's toxic crap and talking to a town with closed ears.

my ears are still open. they just haven't heard anything convincing.

even a semi-plausible explanation of how the mastin read came to be would probably shut me up but it seems that a lot more words are being committed to telling me how awful i'm being than actually explaining a read.

[Heartless]

If I am right, you should see details and ignore the quotes getting in the way. If I am wrong and he struggles to put two coherent thoughts together, we'll lynch him.

we're on the same page

[Heartless]

It's mostly PoE and for lack of content, which is why it's my weakest scumread.

why is twie town to you?

[Heartless]

they do need an answer to strong town power roles like doctor and jailkeeper.

i disagree with that

[Heartless]

i guess mastin probably doesn't think i'm a competent reviewer

[Heartless]

That's also a good point about Molla scum that I didn't realize

what point?

[Heartless]

no baggage.

I am a fucking jack of all trades.

If you think that:
-Town 2x vigilante
-Whatever the rogue crew has (including at least one kill ability as per Klingoncelt's death and their word)
-Jailkeeper
-JOAT (tracker, the Pine guilty power, some third power which fitting the other two would presumably be investigative)
-JOAT (redirector, deflector, rolestop)
...Plus anything else we have unclaimed (in addition to all the VT abilities, which aren't exactly weak!)...
...Is all town?

I don't know what to tell you.

Because no. Just fucking no. That's not a town composition which would ever make it past a competent review team, unless the scumteam's WEAKEST PR was Pine's 2x-Vanillaizer (which is a pretty damn strong role!).

BBMolla's role is a scum role. I guarantee it.

i would be one of the people she wouldn't know what to tell.

assuming all the PR claims are town, i think the setup is WELL within range of balance-able esp if fire went with a scumteam size of 4

[Heartless]

And against that, you've got a lot which needs shutting down!

with what we have so far.... not really

if i was a reviewer on this i'd probably say throw in a scum BP and maybe an investigative and that scumteam would be good to go

i mean... if everyone starts claiming james bond super duper power roles, i'll reassess that but i haven't seen anything outrageous so far

[Heartless]

That's potentially three out of four scum nightkilled, and their only defense is vanillaizing the 2x vigilante?

well... yeah

not to mention not being awful and avoid getting scumread. that'd probably go a pretty long way in not getting vigged.

[Heartless]

titus is a pats hater?

you learn something new every day

[Heartless]

Fuck PRs. Judge by play. Do you actually think BBMolla's play is town?

i thought Post 2390 was vaguely town. but other than that, no not really.

[Heartless]

That's potentially three out of four scum nightkilled, and their only defense is vanillaizing the 2x vigilante?

well... yeah
not to mention not being awful and avoid getting scumread. that'd probably go a pretty long way in not getting vigged.

Still.
You're positing this passed a review with the possibility of:
-One scum lynched D1.
-The scum's nightkill failing thanks to one of two sources (AT MINIMUM--not even including the possibility of scum killing themselves).
-The vig shooting scum.
-Maybe the rogue crew being able to shoot scum, depending on the exact mechanic there.
-A second scum lynched D2 from AT LEAST ONE SOURCE a guilty (with the possibility of that being GAME OVER RIGHT THEN AND THERE if scum shot themselves/the rogue crew could shoot N1).
-The vig shooting the last scum N2.

...And you think that would pass as balanced against just a 2x Vanillaizer?

yes

and it's b/c if that scenario that you just described actually happens, that means scum played badly enough to deserve the humiliating loss

it's not the game designer's job to shield shitty scum teams.

[Heartless]

and i also happen to know RC isn't averse to swingy roles/setups either

[Heartless]

so according to your theory, scum have vanillaizer, jk, AND the manipulative joat

or... what? do you think aj is completely making up the jk claim?

b/c mastin's theory partly relies on aj being town ya' know

[Heartless]

i have this really intense desire to vote cake now..........

[Heartless]

VOTE: sircakez

[Heartless]

ok, just so we're clear. you're telling me you think there's a scum jailkeeper, a scum vanillaizer, AND a scum redirecting/defecting/rolestopping joat. that sounds like an appropriate power level to you?

you're glomming onto mastin's point even though it leaves you with a nonsensical theory

[Heartless]

seriously?

why claim that then?

[Heartless]

oh ok well i guess that makes perfect sen... HE HAD ONE VOTE ON HIM AT THE TIME AND THE WAGON WAS GOING AWAY ANYWAY

the. narrative. of. these. reads. make. no. sense.

[Heartless]

And the claim timing makes any more sense as town?

yes, definitely

because aj!scum just winging it wouldn't know if he would get cc'ed or not

[Heartless]

what the fuck are you talking about?

[Heartless]

of COURSE timing matters. that's why the scummiest people go first in a massclaim, so there's less info to base a fakeclaim on

[Heartless]

there is no fucking way you actually believe there's an equal amount of risk to fake claiming now vs fake claiming later

[Heartless]

Plus he's been getting towncred from his super bizarre claim timing. So it wouldn't be a bad scum play.

him giving a specific n1 and n2 target would be HORRIBLE scum play

[Heartless]

I'm having a hard time trying to word this

yeah you're having a hard time wording it because the words for it would be "anus-puckering awfulness"

the fleeting reward isn't anywhere NEAR the massive amount of risk that would come with the claim

[Heartless]

YOU WERE THE ONE THAT PUT YOUR TWO BITS IN AND SAID MASTIN MADE A GOOD POINT

[Heartless]

whatever

VOTE: zefiend

[Heartless]

If a scum got into the crew they would be able to tell Pine and perhaps he wouldn't use his ability. Whether he decides to use the ability or not isn't a requirement for you to bus him.

pine having an expiration date on him b/c of the ability is a part of nero's explanation for why mastin could've bussed and it's been hammered on for the last umpteen pages now

[Heartless]

whatever

VOTE: zefiend

Take it you're not really buying his claim?

i mean... he's probably not lying about the claim but it's nai...?

idg your point

[Heartless]

no one has asked me anything

could u plz smash my fingers w a hammer?

[Heartless]

You know, I find it bananas how you and others can latch onto my SirCakez "case" so easily by parsing the quotes I provided, but you can't parse the quotes from Nero and Pere I provided that clearly show what I found appealing about their points vs. mastina.

yeah you're right i'm just an idiot

[Heartless]

you can lynch Cakes without me.

sounds like a plan to me

VOTE: sircakez

[Heartless]

And the claim timing makes any more sense as town?

yes, definitely

because aj!scum just winging it wouldn't know if he would get cc'ed or not

But wouldn't it be a safe fakeclaim?

those aren't really a thing in modern site meta. you still see old mods (2000s join dates) do those occasionally but fire isn't one of them.

[Heartless]

for clarity:

most of the fakeclaims that mods give out now are like mastin said: either vt or the town version of whatever the scumrole is (w appropriate town flavor attached and obviously scummy modifiers like ninja and strongman dropped). the abilities between the real role and fake claim will mostly match up, mods don't get too aggressive here bc they don't want to get reamed post-game by scum who are caught out on a bad mod-provided fakeclaim. alternatively, sometimes mods give scum a list of characters that are guaranteed to not be in the game and just send them on their merry way.

i very much doubt firebringer crafted a fakeclaim of mon mothma, jk. if aj fakeclaimed that as a scum [something other than jk or rb], he likely took a complete shot in the dark for all that except maybe the flavor.

[Heartless]

Well I mean if AJ is scum he did probably clain his real role. In that case there isn't really a risk of cc

i will consider that if there ends up being a 5 man masonry or some shit. scum getting both a vanillaizer and a jk is ridiculous.

[Heartless]

n1: us, desp, nacho, infinity
n2: us, desp, infinity, piper

[Heartless]

yeah

[Heartless]

Spoiler: Pine-A-Tonics ROLE PM

Welcome! You are

Orson Krennic

, a

2 Shot Vanillizer

. You are aligned with the

Empire

.

Weapon developer for the Empire, you have set your ambition to make one of the most destructive weapons known to the galaxy, a planet wide destroyer known as the Death Star. You will make sure no one stands in your way in your attempts to bringing stability to the galaxy

Abilities:

2 Shot Vanillizer- At night you can select a player to vanilize and they will lose all their powers including special abilities.
Imperial kill - You share a factional kill with the other Imperials.
Battlecruiser - You and the rest of the Imperials can meet [REDACTED] to discuss your plans out of earshot of the Rebels.
Vote - You can vote during the day.

Character Special Ability

Operation Stardust

:
Joins the Rogue Crew for a night, will not be counted as part of the crew for max allowed or any abilities affecting crew.
This ability can only be used once

Win Condition:
You win when the Rebels have been eliminated or nothing can stop this from happening and at least one Imperial is alive.

[/center]

Spoiler: Last Will

[Heartless]

i see sircakez at the bottom

alas, no claim

[Heartless]

===[]
[]===

[Heartless]

Heartless can I see your reads please.
I want to look I want to sees.

[nero, piper, infinity, mastina, aj]
[titus]
[molla, twie]
null line --> [pv]
[cakez, zefiend]


^where i'm at^

the mental acrobatics cake is having to do to hold onto his aj scumread is what got me about him recently but the interactions w/ pine on d1 don't look great either.

zefiend has yet to convince me his mastin read is legit.

[Heartless]

you did?

i remember the once and i said "if we're scumreading her" which was b/c she was still in the poe pool at the time but not quite a scumread

but... yeah just sling some insinuation around it's cool

[Heartless]

i also thought i remembered posting it out here but i only posted it in the rogue crew...

i think titus is a smidge out of her emotional range as town. the only times i recall really seeing her play the "no one's listening to me, i'm right" card was as town. annoying, but still town.

[Heartless]

heartless will you lynch zefiend/titus tomorrow?

There's also this which was ignored.

Forget me. Why are YOU town reading her?

oh well shucks i don't know. how could you have any way to figure out if i would lynch titus and/or zefiend?

Heartless can I see your reads please.
I want to look I want to sees.

[nero, piper, infinity, mastina, aj]
[titus]
[molla, twie]
null line --> [pv]
[cakez, zefiend]


^where i'm at^

the mental acrobatics cake is having to do to hold onto his aj scumread is what got me about him recently but the interactions w/ pine on d1 don't look great either.

zefiend has yet to convince me his mastin read is legit.

[Heartless]

iirc she did that as scum in SF

ok well i don't remember shit from that game except for doing badly so i'll look at that again

[Heartless]

Side question: where be TTH? I'd like to see what she has to say.

she's taking over the driving for a while anyway. i've got shit coming up.

[Heartless]

UNVOTE:

[Heartless]

Hi guys!
Anti and I finally got our shit together and had a real conversation about this game.

We are in agreement that Nero Cain, Drunken Piper, Infinity, and AJ are all likely town.
I'm not exactly sure if I can trust mastina. However, Antihero specifically he asked me to have faith in his mastina read so that's exactly what I'm going to do.
I am not affording him the same trust on the Titus read because I think he gives her too much benefit of the doubt and gives in to AtE rather easily. I haven't seen any reason to think she's town yet and her zefiend defense is mildly concerning to me.

Antihero holds fast to his BBMolla townread based on setup speculation and I know that's his forte so I'm trying not to second guess it too much. But I see some major red flags in Molla's play. The most recent:

sircakez the honest truth is I am beyond terrible at mafia now. I am the worst player I've ever seen.

the only fact I know is I'm town and I don't particularly think you are so your lynch is better than mine.

I don't know about anybody else, but if scum were scared enough of me to vanillaize me on Night 1 I would feel fucking fantastic. I would think someone vanillaized would be emboldened to push their reads even

more

but Molla's slinking around like a dog in a thunderstorm. I don't get it. The attitude doesn't make sense to me.

Antihero has a townread on TWIE, citing the one interaction with Pine in the Post 1565 region. He's enigmatic and null to me but Anti's instincts are good enough that I'll just go with that for now.

Peregrine troubles me. LUV was already a troublesome slot for me and PV himself has yet to post something cogent or convincingly town. In particular, his read on the Aero slot bothers me:

With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.

He was replaced, so there is that.
I totally think Mastina is scum.
Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)

If you follow all the links provided, the interactions look pretty damn neutral to me. I suppose you could say the banter about mastina's RVS reads in 1118 and 1119 could be "friendly" if you tilt your head and look at it in just the right lighting, but it's a thready argument. There are other posts here and there that give me the heebie-jeebies but the zefiend defense is probably the most unsettling thing for me.

I'm tired so I'm stopping now. Zefiend and SirCakez tomorrow.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I'm at about the same place.
VOTE: SirCakez

I'm OK with this given how Anti's conversations with SirCakez have gone. The quality of his scumreads are bad and he keeps propping up obviously rickety premises when challenged. The last second shots at Anti don't do much for me either.

[Heartless]

somebody plz hammer tia

[Heartless]

VOTE: zefiend

[Heartless]

Mastin hit me with your pv read when you have a chance

Town.
PV is never this infuriatingly frustrating when he's scum.

He's got a clear difference in scumplay and townplay. Night and day, even. Even stronger than the difference in your play. LUV was nulltown, but PV is just town. This is his towngame. The actual tell I have for him isn't frustration (though that is a general trend; PV doesn't frustrate me when he's scum and does when he's town but I think that's just incidental), but I'm pretty damn sure this is his towngame. I'd prefer to only share with the class the reasons why if absolutely necessary. Since there's no wagon on PV, that would not be right now.

it is necessary

[Heartless]

d("d)

[Heartless]

I don't buy that Mastina suspected Kuroi when she replaced in at all.

The RC was Infinity, Heartless and DP right? What was Infinity saying last night.

His scum pool was {one of mastina and molla} and {Titus, Zefiend, Peregrine, and TWIE}. He also said he would re-evaluate on calling Titus-SirCakez town vs scum but he never followed up on that.

[Heartless]

VOTE: PeregrineV

My vote now.

[Heartless]

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

It must be with the part where you tell us in what universe your Aeronaut read makes sense. :3

[Heartless]

What is with your obsession with the Rogue Crew?
What do you think it does?

[Heartless]

Nero, my reads were obviously garbage.

What was this responding to?

[Heartless]

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

uhhhhhhhh...what?

it's a neighborhood. what exactly are you demanding? bc it kinda looks like ur just trying to sound authoritative in making noise

[Heartless]

Nero, my reads were obviously garbage.

What was this responding to?

^yeah what she said. why is nero getting an admission when u threw that "i was right" stuff in MY face?

[Heartless]

What is with your obsession with the Rogue Crew?
What do you think it does?

I would think that it has some extra ability that would be useful to town.

I would think that with an all town crew and I think a hood, you guys would be able to bounce ideas off each other and improve your reads overall.

At a minimum.

Infinity and Antihero have utilized the neighborhood functionality the most this game and they seem to have pretty good chemistry, they just have yet to be right about much. Most of the stuff they've said in the Rogue Crew PT has also been said in the game thread.

[Heartless]

Is there a part where the Rogue crew tells us the good they accomplished last night?

It must be with the part where you tell us in what universe your Aeronaut read makes sense. :3

Show me my Aeronaut read and we can discuss it.

Here you go.

With aero, it's partly that he caught up and then disappeared, partly zefiend's catchup which I find very scummy, and partly trusting mastin.

He was replaced, so there is that.
I totally think Mastina is scum.
Aero's Pine interactions don't look like scum with scum. Aero should be neutral or hostile, not questioning or friendly. (1075-1076-1118-1119)

[Heartless]

/headdesk

[Heartless]

fuck this game

[Heartless]

also, this kind of confirms that Heart is town
or am I missing something else that has gone down?

we
were
confirmed
when
pine
used
his
special
character
ability
so
was
infinity

[Heartless]

Heartless, you don't mind being Jk'd for the rest of the game, right?

if "jk'd" means "lobotomized, force-fed bourbon, then thrown into a volcano" then no i do not mind being "jk'd" at all

[Heartless]

Which part are you questioning?

The part where you townread Aeronaut based on the four posts you linked.

[Heartless]

Which part are you questioning?

The part where you townread Aeronaut based on the four posts you linked.

While you're at it, I'm also questioning why you didn't stick up for your read on the slot more as zefiend was being run up yesterday.

[Heartless]

Heartless, tell me where to vote. My reads were obviously shit and I need to redo.

Well then go ahead and redo.
In case you don't remember yesterday's post, I don't really trust you. Infinity's death doesn't reassure me at all. Now we're apparently the afterthought to crawling to Nero with your tail between your legs.
My vote is on Peregrine right now because his posting has creeped me out a few times and LUV was shady. I also think zefiend has a better-than-average chance of being scum here. Feel free to redo either of those reads.

I was hoping to start by attempting to work with Nero

Why would you do that?

[Heartless]

I don't need another vote. I need to know if you're town or not.

My vote is on Peregrine right now because his posting has creeped me out a few times and LUV was shady. I also think zefiend has a better-than-average chance of being scum here. Feel free to redo either of those reads.

Do either of these tickle you?
If not, anybody else on the player list is fine.

[Heartless]

Maybe Heartless wants me to do the macarena.

So 90s and outdated.
I'm not sure what the kids do these days. That Gangnam style dance? Is anyone doing that still?

[Heartless]

ok why is PV town?

Not saying he is. I'm saying I need help on my reads. No amount of needling or prodding will get me to say something that I just don't know on.

You could reread and think of reasons why he might be town and then weigh those against the reasons he might be scum.

[Heartless]

I don't reread for a reason. Rereads just reinforce my opinions I already have. I need to figure out what is wrong with my process. Right now, if I reread, all I'd get is Nero is blocking me at every turn.

[Heartless]

How long have you had this anti-rereading attitude?

[Heartless]

I was staying up to see what zefiend had to say, but it seems I will have to walk away empty handed. :\

[Heartless]

How does a TWIE vote follow from anything preceding it in that post?

[Heartless]

The problem is, by this point he's got roughly a 50/50 shot to be scum by PoE.

I see you have scumreads on: mastina, one of AJ/molla, and presumably, TWIE.
How were these 50/50 odds for Peregrine calculated?

[Heartless]

If only you were TWIE, you could answer that question.

Nope, I still don't get it.
Sorry I've never been that good at riddles.

[Heartless]

mastina, BBmolla, AJ, TWIE, Titus, Peregrine

3/6 = 50/50

Don't have a scumread on TWIE.

How did Titus make it into this group? You've been pretty adamant about townreading her up to now.

[Heartless]

Meanwhile, you continue to ignore me when I ask you to back up your reads.

[Heartless]

I also don't think both AJ and BBMolla can be town.

I forgot to ask about this at the time, but what exactly makes you say this?

[Heartless]

Nice try.

[Heartless]

HOLY SHIT

[Heartless]

i thought tth was just fucking w me

[Heartless]

yeah pv can die now

thnx for not checking how ur action works

[Heartless]

how about the part where mod confirmed information shouldn't be prefaced by ANONYMOUS MESSAGE

[Heartless]

that's not bastard.
fire is explicitly saying it's an anonymous message. if ur gullible enough to buy that then yeah u deserve to lose.

[Heartless]

i'll check out fire's mod precedence for ICs later to confirm but first impression is that it's fake

[Heartless]

it's not the mod lying if it's not mod-confirmed information

[Heartless]

here, easy way to settle it

Anonymous Message

PeregrineV is

Antoc Merrick

,

Blue One

Vanilla Townie

. He is aligned with the

Rebel Alliance

.

@firebringer

is this mod confirmed information?

[Heartless]

i mean someone either takes credit for it or we just consider it bullshit.

thats how this works.

yeah...somehow i don't think anyone's going to come forward to say they crafted a message to pass something off as mod-confirmed information...

[Heartless]

No.

that's what i thought

[Heartless]

What a fucking awkward choice for mailmaning if that's what it is.

well desperate times call for desperate measures

[Heartless]

Hi MoI! ^_^

No.

Of course not. Antoc Merrick's call sign is "Blue Leader." Not "Blue One."

[Heartless]

Zefiend got quiet.

[Heartless]

I think those types of things are always WIFOM involved. It could be scum framing Pere. Or even if Pere is scum, why choose to inno yourself instead of guilty a non-clear?

[Heartless]

Man, nobody wanted to help me pressure TWIE. Why not? I don't like having a hole in my reads. That slot is basically a coin flip.

[Heartless]

Well, since I'm outted, I'm just going to come out and say it.

Why was Infinity killed when he was like the weakest of all the hard town reads? you could talk to him for 3 pages and get him to change his read on someone. Why kill him over someone like Heartless or Drunken?

[Heartless]

Well, since I'm outted, I'm just going to come out and say it.

Why was Infinity killed when he was like the weakest of all the hard town reads? you could talk to him for 3 pages and get him to change his read on someone. Why kill him over someone like Heartless or Drunken?

Feel free to answer.

So you could make this exact insinuation.

[Heartless]

You're also now conveniently off the hook for talking about your zefiend read. I didn't forget that.

[Heartless]

I think those types of things are always WIFOM involved. It could be scum framing Pere.

so true... with the two loudest slots on him and no one expressing a solid townread on him, a pv lynch would've been just impossible. definitely would take a frame job.

Or even if Pere is scum, why choose to inno yourself instead of guilty a non-clear?

ikr?! what scum would wanting ppl to treat them as an IC? thats just crazy

[Heartless]

Which part are you questioning?

The part where you townread Aeronaut based on the four posts you linked.

Is this it? There is no question.

if u weren't being intentionally obtuse, this is where u explain in more detail why the interactions made aero town.

[Heartless]

someone hasn't been reading the thread

[Heartless]

VOTE: zefiend

scum catch up

Why?

bc you use a ton of words to say not very much and the reads themselves are so cookie cutter and meh

talk about this more when not on a phone

anyway back to this

in the opening post i feel like he's just sort of going through the motions and dryly pointing out things that MIGHT be scummy but there's really no direction to any of the thoughts and most all the reads just kind of end up in this weird limbo. i'm not really seeing any effort to go beyond surface level or any attempt to say what the most LIKELY situation is. it's the appearance of "gamesolving" without really solving anything.

starting in this region

[Heartless]

3359 can p much be summed up as "he doesn't fit inside a hilariously narrow model of what scum would do, ergo town"

[Heartless]

I think those types of things are always WIFOM involved. It could be scum framing Pere. Or even if Pere is scum, why choose to inno yourself instead of guilty a non-clear?

Though I will say that every other message I've seen like that has been "mod-confirmed", so this one is rather suspicious. I wanna hear from Pere before I jump to any conclusions.

So now that Pere posted, what's your verdict?

I'll address Pere's Aeronaut towncase among other things when I get home this evening.

[Heartless]

im a little surprised PV confirmed that was his flavor tbh.

especially given the attitude of thats fake if no one takes credit for it that was expressed before he showed up.

His alternative would be to fake another character, one that might actually be in the game.

[Heartless]

Yeah, so you can also explain this while you are at it.

Pine flipped between those two posts.

[Heartless]

That's also been a read Anti's talked me over to his side on.
But I guess you have to force "contradictions" where you can.

[Heartless]

you mean in the event that hes town and that is in fact his actual flavor?

No.
If he's scum, Antoc Merrick would almost assuredly be his mod provided fake flavor.
Should he deny that he's Merrick, he would have to say he was (Character X) instead. That leads to the possibility of real (Character X) counterclaiming if (Character X) is in the game.

My point is you shouldn't be surprised he didn't disavow Merrick.

[Heartless]

That only passes the problem along to the teammate.

[Heartless]

okay but the alternative is to tie yourself to a really sketchy looking announcement.

He's choosing between drowning and dragging his buddy down. Of course both choices are bad: the gambit failed.

[Heartless]

okay but the alternative is to tie yourself to a really sketchy looking announcement.

He's choosing between drowning and dragging his buddy down. Of course both choices are bad: the gambit failed.

What you're proposing here is that Pere would be a complete scoundrel and leave a buddy pissing in the wind either having to take the Antoc claim or improvise. Is that it?

[Heartless]

For those of you who still think the anonymous messenger might be town, I'd like to point out that unless the anonymous messenger is mastina, they have declined to claim.

[Heartless]

okay but the alternative is to tie yourself to a really sketchy looking announcement.

He's choosing between drowning and dragging his buddy down. Of course both choices are bad: the gambit failed.

I mean wouldnt you normally push the problem down the line? Because of the chance that it doesnt resurface?

Not if it created a problem for someone else.

If you were PV's buddy and he took your safe claim after a botched gambit, would you have a problem with that?

[Heartless]

although i guess if you felt like you were going to ever need to claim your abilities and they were flavor related that would change.

id say we could have PV claim the name of his special ability but then i remembered that pines special ability was actually called stardust on a char that made no sense.

No, I think that's a good idea.
Peregrine...?

[Heartless]

moi, molla, plz vote pv

[Heartless]

twie, plz get ur fist out of ur ass

[Heartless]

ppl, really this is not brain surgery. the anonymous message is a scum gambit that just didn't happen to work

[Heartless]

mastin, plz vote pv

[Heartless]

I've got a

lot

of bullshit to unpack here so let's get started.

What am I insinuating? Just so we are on the same page.

The immediate and obvious answer is "because one of us is scum." You could go with the less OMGUS-y "because their reads are bad and they'll be counted on to push mislynches" angle, but they both serve the function of discrediting our reads.

Now let's get to the Aero post:

This post, if Aero is scum, is calling out his scumbuddy in a manner that does not allow him to bus easily, because it's not very aggressive, and does not make Pine look more town, because it's not requesting exposition.

What? That's preposterous. What about this post would prevent Aero from jumping on Pine late-wagon if he needed to? It wouldn't. In fact, it would make the bus look more convincing ("Look, I wasn't just cutting my losses, I was building on previous suspicion.")
For context, Antihero voted Pine on the previous page and at that point Pine was a 3-man wagon. It would make perfect sense for Aero!scum to call Pine scum for distancing purposes but not give the wagon any momentum by actually voting.

Scum interaction if Aero were scum would be to attack the read, or agree/sheep the read, not call them out for a completely different part of the post.

"Call them out" is a

very

generous assessment of what Aero did in Post 1076. It's a gentle poke at best. It's also hard to argue the impact of the "call out" when mastina already got on Pine's case for the "boring" line in Post 520.

In addition, scum doesn't bother with the second half of the post. This is all like 600 posts later, so Aero is reading through looking for things that ping him. If he is scum, he doesn't spend time on his buddy and then ever so weakly agree with him.

Why not? I don't get your point or why that would be so unlikely.

Same here. No reason to create an associative with a scumbuddy without townreading or bussing them. He is commenting on stuff that interests him.

The assertion that scum can't engage in idle musings about each other's posting is patently absurd. And you've never seen scum put each other in the "null read" section on their reads lists? "Either bussing or townreading" isn't a scum model that holds up to any amount of thought. Furthermore I don't think it would occur to anyone to think that exchange was particularly telling or "associative" as you're calling it. The third sentence may or may not be true, but is not alignment indicative.

Clarifying his previous stance. This one is less about Pine, but include Mastina, who I more strongly scumread when I first read through.

Clarifying his previous stance

to subtly discredit mastina's read

. Aero is going out of his way to point out mastina

can't

justify a

hard

scumread on Pine with just that kind of RVS logic.
Given that Pine was scum, that doesn't sound particularly town to me. That sounds like a soft defense.

[Heartless]

The anonymous message seems suspect on so many levels. For us to believe it we have to believe there is:

A. A role that gets alignment and role as a result
B. A role that can send messages and has that knowledge

??????

I guess I don't really know what to make of it?

If you're getting ready to delve into the argument that "scum can't be

that

incompetent" I urge you to make use of Occam's razor and realize that

yes they can

. For anybody to believe it, they would just have to miss "anonymous message" for the pretty mod colors and bolding and/or treat it like mod confirmed information, like Nero Cain was doing for a while. Personally, I think it's more likely that Anti's on the right track. It simply didn't occur to scum that it would show up titled an "Anonymous Message" and they thought the mod would just post the message with the vote count and no one would question if it was really mod-provided information.

[Heartless]

Read his catchup again, still don'tt think it's scummy.

Where did you "talk about it more"? I cant find it.

It's quoted right on the page of this post. There was also a lengthy discussion between Anti, zefiend, Infinity, and Titus (among others) where zefiend's reads post and progression on his mastina read were central issues.
You couldn't have really missed all of that if you even took a cursory look at posts in the 90s page range and you're putting a lot more effort into mouthing off than actually attempting to understand the zefiend read.

Yeah, so you can also explain this while you are at it.

Now let me tell you why stacking these posts and acting like they're scummy is a big, steaming load of horseshit.
First, there's the simple fact that the two posts were made under fundamentally different conditions. Post 1341 was made on Day 1, before any flips, and Post 3075 was made on Day 3, after Pine had already flipped scum. That changes the lens I view the posts through. Sure Aero's anti-Pine point in Post 1075 was a fair one, but was there any semblance of a concerted Pine push or a vote on Pine when it mattered? No.
Then there's the other set of eyes and brain on this game who is on record in this thread as having doubts about the Aero slot in Post 1613 and he's since acquired a strong scumread on the second occupant of the slot, zefiend. In our conversations about this game, he repeatedly insisted the zefiend slot was scum for the same reasons he's giving in this game thread. Since I respect him and value his opinion, I re-evaluated my initial Aeronaut read and realized it might not have been accurate. These kinds of things happen in a functional and healthy hydra.

[Heartless]

Poignant musings aside, if you're truly committed to that theory you should be calling for a mass character ability claim to ferret out the messenger. It looks like they're all shitty little trifle abilities and "anonymous message to go with a vote count" easily fits in among them.

[Heartless]

Spoiler: who wants to be luke skywalker?

===[]
[]===

[Heartless]

no character ability claim huh....

[Heartless]

found the messenger

[Heartless]

if he's scum he's going to have to do stuff eventually regardless of what happens in the next couple hours.

a non-pv lynch just isn't happening at this point. there's really no sense in prolonging this

[Heartless]

i'll take that action

if u self hammer

[Heartless]

but u won't do that.

nor will u claim.

bc ur the messenger.

[Heartless]

i have yet to hear a denial

[Heartless]

oh boy this claim dodging

let me go get that dgb quote real quick

[Heartless]

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

[Heartless]

he didn't

claim

[Heartless]

yeah... that's what i thought.

[Heartless]

so molla, is pv not claiming part of the conspiracy too?

[Heartless]

molla, nero, twie, dp. you know what needs to be done

pv you can have the last word today

[Heartless]

i mean... if tth wants to argue w scum that's her time to waste

i'm not

[Heartless]

he did not say he didn't have one. he said he wasn't claiming it.

he didn't

claim

yeah... that's what i thought.

No, you were actually told 6(?) times that I wasn't claiming.

[Heartless]

btw for the flavor icing on the cake

remember what the special character ability of the flipped blue squadron pilot was?

blue four standing by:
Send mod pm to select a player to allow you to send one way private messages to this player for a day.
The player will be notified who the person sending the messages is, but will not be able to message back.

yep... so you think the fake ability to go with blue LEADER was supposed to be an analogous mod messenger? i do.

it's a minor point, but i've modded enough theme games to think this is plausible.

ofc real kicker is the refusal to claim. why would he? admitting to being the messenger is tantamount to a scum confession.

[Heartless]

eh that was more for twie, piper, and molla than for you

if you're thinking you want to press moi for something now rather than give him 48 hours fine i guess? do what you want.

[Heartless]

if there was any doubt before, those last few pages should be the final nail in the "scum conspiracy" theory's coffin.

if pv had a character ability other than the messenger he would have fucking paraded it out by now.

[Heartless]

===[]

[]===

[Heartless]

And Heartless and everyone else that might criticize me...this has been ya'lls end result so its not like ya'll have any room to talk.

Has Anti been trash talking you? I haven't. o.O

[Heartless]

Zefiend is prob town

Why?

[Heartless]

I'll talk about that more in my last will/tomorrow.

That's your prerogative.
When you're ready to talk about it, what do you think of this conversation between Antihero and Titus regarding zefiend starting at around Post 2404?
It would probably be easiest to read in a double ISO of us and Titus since there were other conversations going on at the time. The post I linked is on the second page near the bottom.

[Heartless]

Is TTH, Anti or DP around?

Hi