Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:50 am

I have different views on deadlines than you do, I've seen town no lynch or lynch without a claim d1 too many times to not be afraid of them.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:53 am

24 hour days means a lot more activity within those hours. On ms people are offline, inactive, etc or just stubborn so in my experience quick compromises usually don't work out.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:57 am

In post 610, Infinity 324 wrote:I don't like pine's reaction to the mastin vote. But scum!pine was more cold and analytical when I played with him

In post 638, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 634, mastina wrote:
In post 610, Infinity 324 wrote:I don't like pine's reaction to the mastin vote. But scum!pine was more cold and analytical when I played with him
Have you considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, Pine in a different game with a different playerlist especially when he is in a hydra might have chosen a different playstyle? Especially post-mastina replace-in.
Yes, I have considered that. Not all scum can do that convincingly though. And the playstyle has been a thing since the beginning of the game.

There's no place where I state my feelings outright but these posts convey it the best

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:59 am

In post 1173, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:
In post 1172, Infinity 324 wrote:24 hour days means a lot more activity within those hours. On ms people are offline, inactive, etc or just stubborn so in my experience quick compromises usually don't work out.
Key word is usually

It's 3 days is the deadline. That means people are forced to come online at least one more or two more times to not be prodded meaning they have to produce content. Now, I'm always up for smashing D1 going over everything that happened and then break the day and conclude who's scum in a town jam of 24 hours or less.

All I need is a couple people who are willing to be hyperactive with me for a few solid hours going over each player and GG.

/Gin

Ok we'll see what happens. So again who do you want to try to wagon and why?

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:28 am

In post 1179, Desperado wrote:
In post 1164, Infinity 324 wrote:Pine is the scummiest viable wagon imo, so I voted pine. Thats all there is to it.
Then make another wagon viable. You have town cache and you're just limply voting with a scumread?

What the fuck?

I'm really not good at pushing lynches. And correct, I don't think we can do klingon in 3 days

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:30 am

This fucking game.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:33 am

Nah, titus actually can do stuff as scum

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:45 am

In post 1195, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:
In post 1193, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 295, Klingoncelt wrote:Just a prod dodge here, I don't need to get involved with VCA arguments or multi/singleball arguments, most of the discussion here has been empty fluff worthy of a Victorian-era luncheon.

Good entrance by Nero, maybe he's Town. I always Townread TTH. Molla and the Piper look Townish. No reads at all on everyone else.
Alright, so I don't like it when people openly admit to prodging but I don't have enough experience to judge if it's AI or not. What I don't like here is that she's saying she doesn't need to get involved in two arguments she listed, but the thing is; is that it was more than just talking about game mechanics/tools.

Like, IIRC there was discussion of white knighting, opinions on counterwagons and overreactions about said arguments beforehand. It feels like an overall generalization to make it look like it was not worth looking into at all when there was actually content in there to begin with.

Also, there is no way it wasn't said before but I'm getting bad vibes from the fact that not a single person pinged as scummy.

Actually after typing that, it really doesn't make much sense at all to say the "VCA and Multi/Singleball arguments" meant nothing but could find that people were townish during that period of posting.

/Gin
I'd like ya'lls input before I move on

I agree with you, I also found that post scummy

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:58 am

In post 1202, Titus wrote:Why? You're voting Pine but you agree with his scumhunting now. You just really need everyone to like you don't you.

Just because someone is somewhat scummy doesn't mean everything they say is wrong. Plus, some of those things were already pointed out. I agreed that post was scummy at the time, and I agree now.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:05 am

In post 1206, Titus wrote:Yeah, but you're just voting whatever is popular. You're not doing analysis to see whether the popular wagon is correct or not. Rather, you are playing it safe. If Pine's wagon crumbles, you've buddied him too.

What was that whole thing with mastin if not "doing analysis"?

Now tell me how being suspicious of mastin and heartless is "playing it safe" or "going with the crowd".

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:10 am

In post 1210, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:You said I was the scummiest viable wagon, not somewhat scummy

You're a null for me I guess. But uh...those things aren't mutually exclusive

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:15 am

Because you're the scummiest player who I think can be lynched today.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:21 am

In post 1166, Infinity 324 wrote:I'd rather lynch town than no one.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:21 am

In post 1101, Firebringer wrote:Day 1 ends in 3 days, 0 hours, 4 minutes!

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:28 am

In post 1218, Pine-A-Tonics wrote:Titus, you have a chance of being right if LUV wasn't a wagon.

Infinity, you got me fucked up saying you just vote who you think you can lynch instead of voting who you think is the scummiest.

I think you're the only one on LUV atm

Unfortunately, with 3 days left, I feel like I can only vote realistic lynches. Yes of course it's possible to get 5 people to change votes in 3 days, but it's not worth the risk to me.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:35 am

In post 1234, Heartless wrote:Infinity, Nacho, Desperado, and Aeronaut are my choices.

You only get 3

VOTE: klingon

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:37 am

...maybe I was too stubborn with this only vote big wagons thing

sorry, this game is just frustrating me

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:39 am

In post 1237, Heartless wrote:30% of 17 is 5.1. Rounding down and including ourselves, I'm under the impression we have four. Am I wrong?

yep you're right

In post 1238, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 1236, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1234, Heartless wrote:Infinity, Nacho, Desperado, and Aeronaut are my choices.
You only get 3

VOTE: klingon
So much for me being the most viable wagon huh?

I'm hoping momentum will be a thing

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:42 am

Yeah the pine vote was probably dumb in the first place

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:56 am

In post 1241, Heartless wrote:
In post 1237, Heartless wrote:30% of 17 is 5.1. Rounding down and including ourselves, I'm under the impression we have four. Am I wrong?
I'm neglecting the lynch. I see my mistake.

I'd check with fb about this to make sure.

And are you suspicious of mastin like I am? If so that's comforting

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:00 am

AJ, get your vote somewhere useful.

That point was dumb but not scum

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:01 am

aj's point about you townreading cakez

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:33 am

In post 1261, Heartless wrote:It doesn't help me at all that, for no obvious reason, we're now the Rogue Leader front runner.

This concerns me too

Even if you are scum, it makes feel a lot better that you acknowledge this and also have concerns about mastin

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:00 am

In post 1265, Heartless wrote:A remediation of this readslist would likely include demoting Lil uzi vert and mastin to the dregs.
Spoiler:

The only one I would keep in the null tier is TWIE. I think Titus is mildly town for her most recent push on Infinity. While I don't agree with the points that Infinity's been especially "agreeable" or "buddying," the push itself feels genuine fro m posts like Post 1201 and Post 1209. Keeping in mind that catchups are often look "town" given the poster's advantage of doing everything after-the-fact, Aeronaut's catch ups still look town to me. He's reacting to mostly important things and the commentary does suggest a genuine reads development.bably demote BBMolla, Klingoncelt, and Drunken Piper to null, but I'm not even close to being ready to quibble with that yet.The only one I would keep in the null tier is TWIE. I think Titus is mildly town for her most recent push on Infinity. While I don't agree with the points that Infinity's been especially "agreeable" or "buddying," the push itself feels genuine from posts like Post 1201 and Post 1209. Keeping in mind that catchups are often look "town" given the poster's advantage of doing everything after-the-fact, Aeronaut's catch ups still look town to me. He's reacting to mostly important things and the commentary does suggest a genuine reads development.

Thank you very much for showing up

Uh...vote klingon? Please?

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:00 am

Idk what happened with that quote

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:03 am

My paranoia of heartless is at least temporarily gone given TTH's recent posting

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:09 am

Sorry, not today. Even if it was realistic mastin is too good of a potential town player to get rid of d1.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:25 am

In post 1275, Nero Cain wrote:whiteknight moar!

I'm pretty sure that's not what a WK is.

What do you think about voting thinker, TTH?

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:30 am

{Nero Cain, Desperado, Heartless}
{Drunken Piper, Aeronaut, Titus, SirCakez, Nachomamma8, Aj the Epic}
Null: {Pine, TheWayItEnds}
{Klingoncelt, BBMolla, Lil uzi vert, mastina, The Thinker}

something like that

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:31 am

In post 1278, Nero Cain wrote:explain to me what whiteknighting is infinity.

WKing is when scum townreads a player under a lot of pressure but generally without defending them too hard to get towncred after the flip.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:50 am

@cakez, aero, thinker, aj: Get your vote somewhere useful or at least make a conscious decision not to.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:53 am

nvm cakez

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:56 am

Unofficial and possibly inaccurate VC

Klingon [5] Inf, desp, cakez, pine, titus
mastin [1] nero
Pine-A-Tonics [4] mastina, Klingoncelt, Nachomamma8, piper
SirCakez [1] Aj The Epic
Lil Uzi Vert [1] heartless
Aj The Epic [1] BBmolla
The Thinker [2] TheWayItEnds, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut, The Thinker

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:57 am

Ok I get trying to start new wagons but these 4 vanity wagons should not be a thing

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:01 am

^ that is what I mean by rambling

And while nice, it's the kind of ramble that I can easily see being fake.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:06 am

You got a point there.

Maybe if people don't switch over in a day or so you can move your vote so we can get a claim before deadline?

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:14 am

I know I pointed out how you weren't rambling mastin but these rambly posts are not helping me townread you

Especially the buddying at the beginning

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:16 am

I hope my desire to correctly identify a strong player as scum is not coloring my read on you mastin

But I really do want you to be town

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:26 am

In post 1310, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1306, mastina wrote:Last I checked, there's like three or four other votes on Pine-a-Tonics.
this is bullshit. Trying to write off a wagon that has recently grown as a not vanity vote from earlier.

In post 1306, mastina wrote:I was the first vote on Pine, yes. I knew I wouldn't be the only one.
Because, one, Pine had been scummy enough on his own,
And two, people would sheep me there.

I don't want my mastin push to be associated with this

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:33 am

In post 1314, Nero Cain wrote:I don't get your point.

Mastin literally said she knew she was the first one to vote pine but justified it anyway.

You said she pretended it wasn't a vanity vote.

???

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:40 am

In terms of working together mastin, just answer the questions I ask you, and then ask me questions back. It doesn't seem that difficult to me, but maybe I'm just not understanding the situation properly.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:42 am

In post 1319, mastina wrote:
In post 1292, Infinity 324 wrote:Klingon [5] Inf, desp,
cakez, pine
, titus
mastin [1] nero
Pine-A-Tonics [4] mastina, Klingoncelt, Nachomamma8, piper
SirCakez [1] Aj The Epic
Lil Uzi Vert [1] heartless
Aj The Epic [1]
BBmolla

The Thinker [2] TheWayItEnds, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting - [2]
Aeronaut
,
The Thinker
Basically, the whole Pine wagon is town.
The Klingoncelt wagon has two scum on it.
The Thinker wagon was strongly town, but has weakened. The SirCakez wagon was also town, but has disintegrated.
There's scum in the remnants of the AJ wagon (Molla), and scum not taking a stance anywhere. (The Thinker/Aero, stronger on TheThinker.)

Very interesting, our reads differences, although small, happen to lead us to opposite conclusions about the alignments of the 2 top wagons. Because I townread cakez and nullread pine, making the kling wagon mostly town. And I scumread you and klingon, making the pine wagon scummy.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:48 am

In post 1322, mastina wrote:
In post 1295, Infinity 324 wrote:^ that is what I mean by rambling
Well yes it was a ramble, but that's far from my first in the game. I've done plenty of it. That post was a classical ramble which could be viewed as nothing but a ramble. Unambiguously, with no other thing, that was a ramble, yet I've done other rambles in the game prior to that point, just less obviously so. Less words, but still rambles.

Things which were off-topic, and sometimes incoherent. That's what I basically mean when I mean ramble: something which tries to make a point, but can't make it effectively. The art of translating concepts into language. My first language isn't English; it's concepts. I think in concepts. I then have to translate said concept into English, and often the meaning I'm aiming for is lost. I've gotten at least okay at explaining this, mainly by repetition, but that's more or less the way my mind works, especially as town, and what I mean when I say that I ramble. I try to say something, I try to talk, with intention of it being something, but what that something is, it's not always exactly the clearest.

I have intent. Always, intent. There's always a plan. There's always some sort of goal I want to achieve, it's just a matter of whether I actually come close to accomplishing it.

Maybe I have a narrower definition of ramble than you do. Because I don't think you can ramble in 1-line posts (and even so, none of them stuck out to me and incoherent/off-topic)

And I get what you mean about translating concepts into words. My brain works the same way, and it makes it difficult when I try to write actual stuff. But anyway...

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:49 am

In post 1323, Nero Cain wrote:She's saying that her vote on Pine was NOT a vanity vote

This is the part I can't find

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:52 am

In post 1330, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1306, mastina wrote:Last I checked, there's like three or four other votes on Pine-a-Tonics.

Ok we're arguing minutia here, but that's not saying it wasn't a vanity vote. That's saying it's

no longer

a vanity vote.

but uh...this is dumb

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:00 pm

In post 1332, mastina wrote:Yet it feels like you want me to always, no matter what, be giving the thorough answers, and that I just can't do.

If all I needed was a brief answer, I wouldn't be asking the question. So answer thoroughly what you can, and if you don't answer I'll know why.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:02 pm

I guess why I expect throughout answers is because personally I feel more motivated the more people ask me questions, because I feel needed more. But not everyone works like me.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:15 pm

748 I wanted to continue the discussion about pine

1051 but you already said you didn't feel like it now

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:23 pm

In post 1342, Nero Cain wrote:
vote:Titus

what

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:27 pm

Stop this nonsense and vote klingon or convince some people to vote thinker.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:30 pm

Because klingon is scummy enough that I don't care

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:51 pm

I ISO'd LUV, and he looks town to me. It's mainly small things and gut, but I feel a not-so-articulate town mindset from him.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:55 pm

Actually, mastin, say so if you can't/won't answer a particular question so I know you didn't miss it

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:31 pm

I have an idea.

In everyone's next post they say everyone they are ok with lynching. Then we run up whoever appears the most. It could be manipulated by scum, but it can also catch them floating their buddies at nullscum.

{kling, molla, thinker}

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:36 pm

Even if you don't like that idea, making sure we lynch someone should be everyone's top priority.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:50 pm

VOTE: thinker

Let's see if this gets traction

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:59 pm

Let's try again and if it doesn't work hopefully TWIE and heartless will join us on klingon or smth

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:03 pm

It's an abbreviation for something

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:43 pm

Get your vote somewhere useful. Thank you.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:48 pm

I'm not vedith, I've been very focused and on task tyvm.

TTH is not a useful vote, given that they are town and not being lynched. They're going to be the ROGUE LEADER ffs

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:49 pm

And nacho now townreads ari

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:50 pm

In post 1402, Infinity 324 wrote:TTH is not a useful vote, given that they are town and not being lynched. They're going to be the ROGUE LEADER ffs

I really shouldn't have to say things like this, I don't want to be people's taskmaster. But shit isn't getting done on its own.

Infinity 324 · Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:56 pm

Oh ok

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:09 am

Jsyk, nacho did in fact call ari a bad vote later on

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:40 am

Not today, it isn't worth the risk of her being town.

Can you do thinker or klingon?

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:11 am

Well ari should be back tomorrow

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:35 am

Piper, you're currently the only one on LUV.

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:37 am

Cakez is on klingon, and nero is on mastin.

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:40 am

Oh sorry

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:49 am

Are you pine? If so I want your opinion on the ari issue since gin wants to leave the slot alone for now.

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:53 am

Klingon isn't town, but ari is scummier.

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:54 am

Weren't you the one who was grilling me for not chasing my stronger scumreads because of deadline? Jeez

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:58 am

Well there were some things klingon said that seemed to have a town tone. Not enough to make them town, but enough to make them townier than ari who was just fake all over the place and didn't scumhunt at all

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:02 am

In post 612, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 609, Infinity 324 wrote:Ooh, that's a bad vote klingon.
No, Desperado's tunnel on me is too stalkerish and weird. Add to that his reads on
every
vote on Cakes. The dude is Traitorous Scum.

In post 1364, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1240, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1237, Heartless wrote:30% of 17 is 5.1. Rounding down and including ourselves, I'm under the impression we have four. Am I wrong?
yep you're right

392

Funny that you guys think my ISO is so horrible when this post makes it clear that you didn't actually read it.

This stuff is almost so bad it's town. Usually scum tend to play more carefully, not always though.

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:30 am

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:26 am

In post 1436, SirCakez wrote:WTF? You keep making these really bizarre statements. What's the difference if you scumread them both?

I'd rather lynch someone I have a stronger scumread on

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:26 am

That's L-2, btw

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:30 am

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:43 am

My main worry with this is that ari won't come back, we'll lynch him and then he'll be a PR. But there's not much we can do about that at this point

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:52 am

Ari designated thinkbig as V/LA, but if he is posting elsewhere I'm glad we ran them up

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:31 am

VOTE: klingon

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:21 am

Kling was pretty scummy yesterday and thinkbig wagon only picked up after klingon was wagoned.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:04 am

Mastin is still probably scum, she definitely needs to explain why she townreads klingon.

Titus may be lazy scum that changed her meta...but probably not.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:09 am

@Titus Without using pre-flip associatives, who is scum other than me?

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:19 am

It's like my entire ISO is just votes without any explanation...

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:20 am

Let me rephrase the question. If I flipped town, who would you scumread?

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:48 am

Ok. So heartless, desp, me, and nacho were in the rogue crew last night, and then pine joined the crew in the middle. This creeped all of us out, but gin made some towny posts in the pt so yeah. I still think mastin/pine is SvT, and I'm strongly leaning towards mastin being the scum there.]

In the PT, TTH asked me about my LUV read so here were go.

In post 261, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Which head said this? What was the purpose of the first question?

I like this because the question's purpose wasn't obvious and it's a town mindset to make sure people aren't asking fluff questions

In post 356, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Take his 30 for example where he described the game state. Instead of making an effort to change it, he simply just sulks and calls it dead. Prior to that post, PP had suggested that we should talk about who to vote for Rouge Leader and Titus casts a naked voted for Infinity. Those posts were things he could have commented on if he found the game was dead.

In his 182 and 279, he seems to be hinting that he has a scum read on AJ and me, but doesn't follow up at all with his suspicions.

I didn't pay much attention to it the first time but after a reread I noticed how awkward he was when he voted for Titus in 81. I'm not sure if was a hint at a role or what but it read to me like he was trying to play his vote off as a joke because he either had a very weak reason or one that he thought wouldn't be too convincing if people questioned him on why he voted for her. The reasoning for the vote is also pretty bad. Effort is NAI and trying too hard can easily come from town who want to work with people they town read or have people sheep their reads because they are confident in them.

I thought these were all good and I believe original points.

In post 617, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 582, mastina wrote:
In post 549, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Why do you have Aero and Indigo so high?
Because they're town, yo.
Help me see what you're seeing.

This always pings me as town, scum doesn't care so much about seeing someone else's perspective and would rather push an agenda.

With that said, there was less towny in his ISO than I originally thought, and the end of his ISO is somewhat worrying to me (specifically 1009, 1315, and 1374), and I tend to weight pretty strongly someone's play when they're disengaged from the game. So LUV will go back to null I guess, maybe slightly below.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:55 am

I didn't think about scumslipping, but tbh that's very unlikely and we agreed in the PT that it was ok to talk about it. Plus it might help other people with reads

I decided to answer in public because there wasn't a reason to keep it secret

I'm not "propping up" uzi, I'm just explaining where I'm at with him right now. Which isn't even town, if you're reading...

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:59 am

Some stuff he did is towny and some stuff is scummy. That's all it is.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:00 am

Titus, what percent of the time when you tunnel on a player are they scum?

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:04 am

In post 1514, TheWayItEnds wrote:on a scale from minorly to game ending how bad is it if theres scum on the crew?

It doesn't make too huge of a difference tbh

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:07 am

In post 1510, Titus wrote:I will need to compare who Uzi is pushing/defending there. It will tell me a fair amount about your partners.

I would like you to explain your thought processes here anyway.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:16 am

Apparently it's a 1-shot part of pine's role

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:29 am

In post 1520, mastina wrote:Aeronaut has moved into full-blown scumread territory.

I want you to talk about this when you get the chance as well, because I am very confused about what happened to your aero read. You townread him for what seemed like very little at the time then continuously moved him down giving no explanation when to me he even got townier. What?

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:41 am

{Nero Cain, Desperado, Heartless}
{Drunken Piper, SirCakez, Aj the Epic, Titus}
{Aeronaut, Pine-A-Tonics}
Null: {TheWayItEnds, BBmolla}
{Lil Uzi Vert}
{mastina, Klingoncelt}

molla moved up because...feels

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:48 am

In post 1522, mastina wrote:
In post 1506, Infinity 324 wrote:Ok. So heartless, desp, me, and nacho were in the rogue crew last night, and then pine joined the crew in the middle. This creeped all of us out, but gin made some towny posts in the pt so yeah.
Okay, so that's pretty blatantly a scumclaim.
Heartless, you, Desperado, and Nacho are all clearly town. That's an all-town rogue crew if ever I've seen one. (So, joining had some clear scum motivation.) Further exemplified by Nacho's death during the night. And then, you're telling me Gin made good points in the PT?

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I basically taught TheRealGin-N-Tonic how to town it up behind closed doors. (Not directly, but indirectly, via my theory work. Most recently seen here, but elsewhere too.) Because, uh. Yeah. They're closed fucking doors. We can't see them. It's easier to manipulate two or three town players than it is the entire town.

I can see why scum!pine would want to join the crew, but I don't see why town!pine wouldn't per se. And killing nacho I think is just a good play overall since he's a good player who hadn't really gotten into the game yet.

Gin was reaching out and trying to figure out the game together with us in a very genuine way. It's something I rarely see scum fake so *shrug*

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:02 am

Have you played with scum!titus more than me? Is this seriously how she plays as scum?

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:05 am

You didn't answer the other question

I really don't feel like this is titus's scum game. She is usually more in control as scum.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:05 am

No, it's not

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:07 am

I really don't think scum!titus says dumb things, she might be intentionally faking her town meta but eh. I want to see her thought process on who could be my buddies anyway.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:58 am

Tbf I 100% would've pushed to lynch that claim

But it's definitely to scum's benefit not to give the person a chance

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:06 am

I wasn't accelerating shit, it was a large with 3 days left and there was no serious wagon. Of course there's cause for concern.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:10 am

...where

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:17 am

Like, I had townreads and scumreads, they weren't a secret. I wasn't pushing randomly by any means

Again, my posts have text in them. If you don't like my reasons, explain why, but don't ignore them completely and look at my ISO as a sequence of votes.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:22 am

Actually, my only vote in the last week that wasn't in the last 3 days was my vanity vote on thinker. So what are you even talking about

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:24 am

So basically you're saying hopping on wagons is scum-motivated 100% of the time no matter the reasons.

Ok...

Let's hear some other reads.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:31 am

Normally wagon-hopping implies hopping onto the biggest wagons.

I just don't get how you can't see that town can do that too in certain circumstances.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:50 pm

In the rogue crew we were mainly talking about the crew power before pine joined, then we talked about pine, pine suspected me for something I said, then we discussed random reads. Gin asked me about a couple reads, and me and anti talked about mastin.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:07 pm

In post 1578, SirCakez wrote:
In post 1575, Nero Cain wrote:dat echo. Now whats your take on Infinity arguing that its not scummy from Titus?
I skimmed because I saw a big 1v1 between Titus and Infinity that was going nowhere, so prob missed it if someone else said it

Infinity defending Titus here is dumb but not scum

Why is it dumb? Can you explain why titus's play is scum-motivated and not just a dumbtunnel?

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:18 pm

@klingon I'm willing to give you a chance, but you need to explain why me and desp must be scum pushing a mislynch and not town coming to a logical conclusion based on the gamestate.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:30 pm

Spoiler:

In post 918, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.12

Pine-A-Tonics [2] mastina, Klingoncelt
SirCakez [4] alban, Nero Cain, Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic
mastina [2] Drunken Piper, The Thinker
Lil Uzi Vert [1] Pine-A-Tonics
Aj The Epic [4] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus, Desperado
The Thinker [2] Infinity 324, Heartlesss

Not Voting - [2] Gamma Emerald, Aeronaut

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Desperado (1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (5): Desperado, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla, Pine-A-Tonics
Heartless (3): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic, The Thinker, Klingoncelt

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.
Gamma Emerald requested replacement.
Alban has requested replacement.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-24 15:26:20)!

In post 953, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.13

Pine-A-Tonics [2] mastina, Klingoncelt
SirCakez [3] Nero Cain, Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic
mastina [1] Drunken Piper,
Heartless [1] Nachomamma8
Lil Uzi Vert [1] Pine-A-Tonics
Aj The Epic [4] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus, Desperado
The Thinker [3] Infinity 324, Heartless, TheWayItEnds

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut, The Thinker

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Desperado (1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (5): Desperado, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla, Pine-A-Tonics
Heartless (4): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic, The Thinker, Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.
TheWayItEnds replaces Gamma Emerald
Nachomamma8 replaces Alban

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-24 15:26:20)!

In post 1101, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.15

Pine-A-Tonics [4] mastina, Klingoncelt, Heartless, Nachomamma8
SirCakez [2] Nero Cain, Aj The Epic
Lil Uzi Vert [2] Pine-A-Tonics, Drunken Piper
Aj The Epic [4] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus, Desperado
The Thinker [3] Infinity 324, TheWayItEnds, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut, The Thinker

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Desperado (1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (4): Desperado, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla, Pine-A-Tonics
Heartless (7): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic, The Thinker, Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez, Nachomamma8

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.
Thinker is V/LA till Monday

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-24 15:26:20)!

In post 1369, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.16

Pine-A-Tonics [4] mastina, Klingoncelt, Nachomamma8, Drunken Piper,
SirCakez [1] Aj The Epic
Lil Uzi Vert [1] Heartless
Mastina [1] Lil Uzi Vert
Titus [1] Nero Cain
Klingoncelt [4] Pine-A-Tonics, Desperado, Titus, Infinity 324
Aj The Epic [2] SirCakez, BBmolla,
The Thinker [1] TheWayItEnds,

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut, The Thinker

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Desperado (1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Desperado (1): Nero Cain
Infinity 324 (3): Desperado, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla, Pine-A-Tonics
Heartless (7): AJ The Epic, The Thinker, Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez, Nachomamma8, Drunken Piper

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.
Thinker is V/LA till Monday

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-24 15:26:20)!

In post 1460, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.17

Pine-A-Tonics [3] mastina, Klingoncelt, Nachomamma8,
Lil Uzi Vert [1] Drunken Piper
Mastina [1] Lil Uzi Vert
Titus [1] Nero Cain
Klingoncelt [1] Titus
Aj The Epic [1] BBmolla,
The Thinker [7] TheWayItEnds, Heartless, Infinity 324, AJ the Epic, Pine-A-Tonics, Desperado, SirCakez

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut, The Thinker

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Desperado (1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Desperado (1): Nero Cain
Infinity 324 (3): Desperado, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla, Pine-A-Tonics
Heartless (7): AJ The Epic, The Thinker, Klingoncelt, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez, Nachomamma8, Drunken Piper

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.
Thinker is V/LA till Monday

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-24 15:26:20)!

The stalling signifies to me that scum were happy with the game state and weren't being wagoned until klingon got traction. Or: none of the wagons were scum and we were just able to lynch thinker at the end due to compromise. But the wagons on pine, AJ, and cakez stood long enough with little enough opposition that I'm comfortable calling them town.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:37 pm

Hmm, I feel like molla, LUV, and titus could've been good targets for scum if they were town. Then again, it's possible scum had enough good targets anyway.

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:49 pm

In post 996, Nachomamma8 wrote:molla the townie in me sees the townie in you but I don't have the clout to protect you today

This makes me feel like molla is town actually. I don't think scum would've done this for WIFOM and to have nacho defending scum!molla later on is pretty powerful.

In post 999, Nachomamma8 wrote:people are writing antihero off too easily.
his scum game ends up being bad on average but he has okay scum range (aka he does have the ability to turn it on); he's not out of scum range yet. doesn't mean he's a great lynch (my vote was more "hi!" which is why whoever asked me about it got a snark answer), but it does mean that all of the confidence around him is misplaced.

Still pretty sure heartless are town but something to think about for later

Infinity 324 · Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:35 pm

What's your read on titus?

Do you still think I'm scum?

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:03 am

Rogue leader vote: desp

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:36 am

Ok, but it's also possible from town.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:06 pm

In post 1624, mastina wrote:
In post 1599, Infinity 324 wrote:The stalling signifies to me that scum were happy with the game state and weren't being wagoned until klingon got traction. Or: none of the wagons were scum and we were just able to lynch thinker at the end due to compromise. But the wagons on pine, AJ, and cakez stood long enough with little enough opposition that I'm comfortable calling them town.
Alternatively: the wagon on SirCakez was on scum, and morphed into the wagon on Pine, also on scum. Scum used deadline and players' suspicions on TheThinker to rush through a quicklynch on town, rather than on scum.

I still maintain that the majority of that wagon is town, but the Pine and SirCakez votes are egregious.

You're going to have to justify this a lot better because the narrative that a wagon on scum just sat there unopposed for a while, then turned into another wagon on scum which also sat there unopposed, is questionable at best.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:09 pm

In post 1627, mastina wrote:
In post 1610, SirCakez wrote:All of your posts are whining about being wagoned/scumread and not actually scumhunting.
Pot, kettle, black.

Maybe you could

maybe

say this early in d1 but no.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:13 pm

In post 1630, mastina wrote:Now that we have established Nacho was not a universal townread within the crew (something I didn't know), that would only be evidence to strengthen my posit: Nacho not being universally townread within the crew is a GREAT way for the scum to get away with killing him. Less likely to be protected, and less likely to be, saaaaay, watched. So, killing a strong player who the town wasn't trusting yet before said player could be fully trusted--that sounds an awful lot like Pine's modus operandi as scum. (Admittedly yes it'd be mine as well, but he and I picked up the trick at loosely the same time. Him, probably a bit before me if I'm fully honest, given games like Mirror Mafia among others.)

I'm glad we've established that nacho was a good kill choice and that one of you and pine is scum.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:30 pm

Ok let's go though this.

In post 1649, Klingoncelt wrote:unless this fucker's got an alt we've never played together before, which makes his no-case focus on me creepy and stalker-ish.

You keep saying this, but I don't see how you being creeped out means he's scum as opposed to just you being creeped out.

He finally tells me to vote for Thinker. I do. Thinker could be Scum, they were one of my compromise lynches. They flip Town and Desperado calls me Scum for hammering them. He says they weren't given time to claim.

What's your issue with this explanation?

In post 1594, Desperado wrote:No Kling, I was encouraging you to follow through with your own words and compromise on a Thinker lynch by giving intent to hammer so they could claim.

Not that you're much better. You ridiculed me for voting for you when you were getting the votes for Rogue Leader, then you went after another player (I forget who) that was voting for Heartless when they were leading the Rogue Leader votes.

It's not unusual in the early game for Scum to get picked for special roles.

Your argument against me and that other player based on popularity was completely without merit.

1. There was about 3 days left until deadline. My issue was with people picking unrealistic lynch targets, and rogue leader candidates would definitely be unrealistic.

2. If you think it was without merit, why does that make it scummy? I think your arguments here are kind of without merit...

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:41 pm

VOTE: mastin

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:21 pm

Idk if this is something klingon can fake, but her stubborn insistence looks somewhat town to me. Now there's still the issue of her first few posts and why thinker got lynched over her yesterday, but I'll come back to her later.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:28 pm

See how many fucks I give about your WIFOM

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:40 pm

In post 1669, mastina wrote:It doesn't matter if there wasn't opposition. It wouldn't matter if there was. You can wagon two scum on a day. You can wagon two town on a day. You have to look not at whether there's counterwagons, but at the TYPE of wagon those wagons were. And in this case, it was two scum wagons and a town wagon. The town wagon was a counterwagon to both of the scum wagons.

I don't claim to know more mafia theory than you do, but I'd be surprised if there was any relatively active scumteam who would let 2 of their scumpartners get wagoned and stay that way without getting jittery.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:45 pm

Are we still "almost in RVS", mastin? Cause your play hasn't changed much from yesterday

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:54 pm

I don't see a reason for town!mastin to go on and on about who she would've killed as scum

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:58 pm

Usually when I catch scum succesfully, I'm able to continue to find more and more reasons why they're scum. Not in a confirmation bias way where I'm forcing it, just in a natural way. That's what's happening with mastin right now.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:07 pm

In post 1676, mastina wrote:I'll give you three.
Guess who the scumteam of that game was?
(Hint: they were all being voted.)

Fair enough, but it's a lot more difficult to form a counterwagon if you have NO town votes to help you out. It's harder for me to imagine that happening in this game with all the 1- and 2-person wagons.

I'll look at the formation stuff some other time.

In post 1678, mastina wrote:
In post 1673, Infinity 324 wrote:Are we still "almost in RVS", mastin? Cause your play hasn't changed much from yesterday
What game are
you
reading?

Sure the fuck isn't this one because I'm going absolutely
ballistic
to try and get you to lynch Pine-a-Tonics.

There are some things I am avoiding--quite deliberately in some cases. I have reasons for that, not all of which I can elaborate on.

But what are you asking for?

I'm telling you exactly why Pine is scum.
I'm telling you why Gin's head is still scum.
I'm laying out their actions.

I'm pointing out why SirCakez is scum.
Molla hasn't even posted much of anything so there's nothing to point out as scum aside from that he hasn't posted much of anything.
And Aeronaut was prodded meaning he hasn't actually posted much of anything. They're not posting, so obviously I can't point out why they're scum if they're not showing it, now can I?

But for Pine, who IS posting?

I
have
been.

What do you want that I haven't given? I've given you the VCA. NKA. I've given you the mindset. The motive. The interactions, the tone, the content of the posts. They're scum. I guarantee you.

Ok first of all we're talking about 2 different things. I'm talking about you play, which from reading the flowchart is not at all your townplay and is at least somewhat like your scumplay. It's confident and controlled instead of unsure and waffly. On d1 you explained that by saying it was almost RVS, yet it still hasn't changed.

For the pine thing, I really am not convinced and I'd have to ISO you again but iirc you didn't even continue the discussion about gin's first post so what's that about?

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:15 pm

Mastin, you really haven't given that much wrt pine. Essentially your reasoning throughout d1 was "because I said so" and now you're giving some wagon analysis that I don't totally agree with, them breaking into the crew, and NKA. That's it.

Infinity 324 · Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:19 pm

In post 1677, Infinity 324 wrote:Usually when I catch scum succesfully, I'm able to continue to find more and more reasons why they're scum. Not in a confirmation bias way where I'm forcing it, just in a natural way. That's what's happening with mastin right now.

This is my way of saying "sheep me" btw

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:01 am

VOTE: pine

...I was wrong

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:03 am

Ok so there were 3 different 1-shot powers to choose from and the rogue leader could give one of them to anyone in the game. Heartless decided to keep it secret in case there was scum in the crew.

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:07 am

Maybe this is dumb but I'm trying to think about the chances mastin was bussing pine. Inevitably there are going to be some people who sheep mastin but the thing is she didn't exactly give super convincing reasons.

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:10 am

In any case, I owe you an apology mastin

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:08 am

@piper who do you think is scum with pine?

I think it's time for some more serious VCA

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:22 am

Why nero?

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:39 am

In post 1698, Drunken Piper wrote:
In post 1695, Infinity 324 wrote:Why nero?
why ask about my read on Nero and not A to the J?
my leanings toward him you are not interested in this day?

Well I've heard reasons for AJ being scum, I just disagree with them. I haven't heard any for nero

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:39 am

In post 1700, Titus wrote:
In post 1693, Infinity 324 wrote:@piper who do you think is scum with pine?

I think it's time for some more serious VCA
It's Day 2. Serious VCA cannot happen yet. Flips and a non guilty scumlynch needed.

Fine, I'll do some non-serious VCA

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:36 am

Probably aeronaut

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:20 am

Why is luv town

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:30 am

Ok fair

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:04 pm

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:06 pm

In post 1743, mastina wrote:
In post 1682, Infinity 324 wrote:Mastin, you really haven't given that much wrt pine. Essentially your reasoning throughout d1 was "because I said so" and now you're giving some wagon analysis that I don't totally agree with, them breaking into the crew, and NKA. That's it.
And what more are you asking for?

Because that? That's plenty. That's me posting content. That's me bringing up points.

I don't work in making long wallpost cases. That's not me. Never has been, never will be. I bring up specific points. I bring up highlights. And I have done so. I've given you what I've got there. I don't really know what more I have to offer.

The reasons were weak imo. At least not ones I use to catch scum, at all. NKA is WIFOM, breaking into the crew is a reason but doesn't mean they're necessarily scum, and I didn't agree with the wagon analysis.

Also you said you gave more reasons about tone, content, etc when you really didn't so I don't know what that was about

Infinity 324 · Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:07 pm

In post 1742, mastina wrote:It has, though?

There's a little bit of an outside factor contributing to this--not one I can talk about here. But existing all the same. That outside factor does in fact mean my play's a little bit...well, different from my preference. For instance, I'm being FAR more emotional here than I'd like to be. (I really hate it when I have palatable frustration. It might technically be a towntell, and not one I can fake, but it's REALLY not healthy for me. Not for me, personally, and not for the gamestate. And yet, fallout from the outside factor means that I am in fact feeling it here.) But the changes are tangible. I don't see how they aren't

Idk man. It feels the same to me at least wrt confidence level.

Infinity 324 · Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:53 pm

Ok I did some VCA which I'll update with the flips but basically this is where I want to go for now.

VOTE: peregrine

I still have some issues with mastin and I want to continue our discussion. I think it's against Occam's razor, but not impossible, that she bussed pine.

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:50 am

Spoiler: cakez wagon

In post 176, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.04

Pine [4]
the thinker
, Aj the Epic,
desperado
, PrettyPrincess,
SirCakez [2] Aeronaut,
alban

Titus [3] Nero Cain,
pine-a-tonics
, SirCakez
PrettyPrincess [2] Heartless, Drunken Piper
Infinity 324 [1] Titus
Aj The Epic [2] BBmolla, Infinity 324
Indigo [1]
klingoncelt

Not Voting - [2] Indigo, Lil Uzi Vert

Rogue Leader Vote:

SirCakez (1): PrettyPrincess
Drunken Piper (1): Heartless
Infinity 324 (2):
desperado
, Drunken Piper

In post 388, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.06

pine-a-tonics
[1]
the thinker

SirCakez [7] Aeronaut,
alban
, Nero Cain, BBMolla, Lil Uzi Vert, Infinity 324, Aj The Epic
Titus [1]
pine-a-tonics

PrettyPrincess [2] Heartless, Drunken Piper
Aj The Epic [1] SirCakez
Infinity 324 [1] Titus

klingoncelt
[2]
desperado
, PrettyPrincess
Indigo [1]
klingoncelt

Not Voting - [1] Indigo

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

SirCakez (1): PrettyPrincess
Drunken Piper (1): Heartless
Infinity 324 (4):
desperado
, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert,
the thinker

Nero Cain (2): BBmolla,
pine-a-tonics

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.
Lil Uzi Vert is V/LA till 13th

the thinker
is V/LA till Monday
AJ The Epic V/LA till 15th
PrettyPrincess has requested replacement.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-24 15:26:20)!

In post 438, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.07

pine-a-tonics
[1]
the thinker

SirCakez [5] Aeronaut,
alban
, Nero Cain, Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic
Titus [1]
pine-a-tonics

PrettyPrincess [2] Heartless, Drunken Piper
Aj The Epic [2] SirCakez, BBmolla
Infinity 324 [2] Titus, Infinity 324

klingoncelt
[2]
desperado
, PrettyPrincess
Indigo [1]
klingoncelt

Not Voting - [1] Indigo

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

SirCakez (1): PrettyPrincess
Drunken Piper (1): Heartless

desperado
(1) Infinity 324
Infinity 324 (4):
desperado
, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert,
the thinker

Nero Cain (2): BBmolla,
pine-a-tonics

Heartless (1): Nero Cain

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.
Lil Uzi Vert is V/LA till 13th

the thinker
is V/LA till Monday
AJ The Epic V/LA till 15th
PrettyPrincess has requested replacement.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-24 15:26:20)!

In post 806, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.11

pine-a-tonics
[2] mastina,
klingoncelt

SirCakez [5] Aeronaut,
alban
, Nero Cain, Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic
mastina [2] Drunken Piper,
the thinker

Lil Uzi Vert [1]
pine-a-tonics

Aj The Epic [3] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus

klingoncelt
[2]
desperado
, Infinity 324

Not Voting - [2] Gamma Emerald, Heartless

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

desperado
(1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (5):
desperado
, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla,
pine-a-tonics

Heartless (3): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic,
the thinker

Ok so I don't know what mastin was talking about, the cakez wagon started very quickly and died very slowly. (I even skipped some VCs in there, it went on for a while). That, and the lack of attempt at a counterwagon (most notably by pine, but really by anyone) makes me confident cakez is town. Townreading most of the wagon makes me look at LUV and to a lesser extent aj and aero (even though aero was one of the first).

Spoiler: aj/thinker/pine

In post 918, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.12

pine-a-tonics
[2] mastina,
klingoncelt

SirCakez [4]
alban
, Nero Cain, Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic
mastina [2] Drunken Piper,
the thinker

Lil Uzi Vert [1]
pine-a-tonics

Aj The Epic [4] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus,
desperado

the thinker
[2] Infinity 324, Heartlesss

Not Voting - [2] Gamma Emerald, Aeronaut

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

desperado
(1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (5):
desperado
, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla,
pine-a-tonics

Heartless (3): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic,
the thinker
,
klingoncelt

In post 953, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.13

pine-a-tonics
[2] mastina,
klingoncelt

SirCakez [3] Nero Cain, Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic
mastina [1] Drunken Piper,
Heartless [1]
nachomamma8

Lil Uzi Vert [1]
pine-a-tonics

Aj The Epic [4] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus,
desperado

the thinker
[3] Infinity 324, Heartless, TheWayItEnds

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut,
the thinker

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

desperado
(1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (5):
desperado
, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla,
pine-a-tonics

Heartless (4): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic,
the thinker
,
klingoncelt
, TheWayItEnds

In post 1015, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.14

pine-a-tonics
[2] mastina,
klingoncelt

SirCakez [2] Nero Cain, Aj The Epic
mastina [1] Drunken Piper,
Lil Uzi Vert [1]
pine-a-tonics

Aj The Epic [4] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus,
desperado

the thinker
[5] Infinity 324, Heartless, TheWayItEnds,
nachomamma8
, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut,
the thinker

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

desperado
(1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (5):
desperado
, Drunken Piper, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla,
pine-a-tonics

Heartless (5): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic,
the thinker
,
klingoncelt
, TheWayItEnds

In post 1101, Firebringer wrote:
Vote Count 1.15

pine-a-tonics
[4] mastina,
klingoncelt
, Heartless,
nachomamma8

SirCakez [2] Nero Cain, Aj The Epic
Lil Uzi Vert [2]
pine-a-tonics
, Drunken Piper
Aj The Epic [4] SirCakez, BBmolla, Titus,
desperado

the thinker
[3] Infinity 324, TheWayItEnds, Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting - [2] Aeronaut,
the thinker

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

desperado
(1) Infinity 324,
BBMolla (1): Titus
Infinity 324 (4):
desperado
, Lil Uzi Vert, Heartless, Mastina
Nero Cain (2): BBmolla,
pine-a-tonics

Heartless (7): Nero Cain, AJ The Epic,
the thinker
,
klingoncelt
, TheWayItEnds, SirCakez,
nachomamma8

At first glance it looks like thinker could've been a counterwagon to AJ, but pine being off both thinker and cakez when AJ was getting wagoned makes that unlikely. Also, the pine wagon building up as thinker goes down is more evidence against scum!aj, since I would've expected scum to try to CW harder if 2 of them were being wagoned. So assuming there were multiple town wagons during this period, wagon position isn't very AI since scum could be anywhere.

Spoiler: klingon/thinker

Ok so it looks like scum tried klingon as a CW and couldn't get traction then switched to thinker. The lynch makes me look at cakez (since he was on klingon too) and aj even though that contradicts the rest of the VCA :/ Other than that, titus was on kling and twie was on thinker, so that's something at least.

I'd be surprised if there were any scum here: {molla, piper, heartless, nero}
Leaning town: {sircakez, aj, mastin}
Null: {titus, twie, aero}
Proably scum: {peregrine}

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:51 am

In post 1773, Nero Cain wrote:
vote:Molla

Molla got vanillized, so unless you think pine wasted a shot just for that, no.

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:07 am

But why would pine waste a valuable vanillize shot on maybe making his buddy townier?

Also nacho townread molla and implied he'd defend molla later. Both WIFOM, but both good points nonetheless.

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:33 am

Desp kill is low info unfortunately

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:54 am

How it is a chainsaw, just because he voted you?

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:14 am

I didn't look at individual votes during the VCA, just wagons.

Also chainsaw isn't a tell when the chainsawed player is town afaik

Also I'm confident enough nero is town that I'm really not trying to sort him anymore

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:43 am

In post 1787, Titus wrote:Chainsawing can also be buddying. We're talking indicators, not tells.

Ok but nero's play throughout the game is inconsistent with him buddying me and generally inconsistent with him being a member of the mafia

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:23 am

I don't want to bother going through his ISO right now, but remember that whole thing about who's gonna be the rogue leader?

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:03 am

The second kill is from a crew ability

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:13 am

AJ, your tone has changed significantly from d1, how do you think you can explain that?

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:19 am

In post 1774, Infinity 324 wrote:I'd be surprised if there were any scum here: {molla, piper, heartless, nero}
Probably town but not 100% sure: {cakez}
Leaning town: {aj, mastin, titus}
Null: {twie}
Slightly scummy: {aero}
Probably scum: {peregrine}

This is probably a more accurate reads list, lol

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:33 am

In post 1814, Drunken Piper wrote:interesting that I see the light of another day.
scum must have been worried in some way.

In post 1779, Infinity 324 wrote:But why would pine waste a valuable vanillize shot on maybe making his buddy townier?
umm, I explained this in the crew last night,
during the discussion about "how Molla had to be confirmed town" and in the light.

what part did you not get?
seemed pretty understandable that bit.

Your explanation was that they could hold the vanillize shot in order to have molla look town. I got that, I just don't find it particularly likely.

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:56 am

In post 1820, Drunken Piper wrote:if you got that, why STATE a SECOND time that he used
a shot for sure, I am confused.

how do you know for a fact that
he used the ability like a brat?

I meant "why would he waste a night phase where he could use the ability"

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:59 am

...I should've realized earlier that pine was on LUV all d1

Ugh

UNVOTE:

I think I should look at associations now but I do not want to

The problem is that no one has really done anything scummy

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:06 am

VOTE: aero

...ok I have no strong reasons to scumread this guy but not strong reasons to townread him either. His catchup was pretty good but it was a catchup and I don't like how he disappeared after that. Also it didn't feel like the town aero I've played with like once before.

And I guess since mastin is no longer a scumread I guess I'll take her opinion into account

...reluctantly

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:07 am

In post 1828, Nero Cain wrote:I'm getting all sad that I'm the only one voting scum.

I still don't know why you scumread titus except for reasons that contradict my sig (i.e. her being dumb)

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:25 am

In post 1831, Nero Cain wrote:her incredulity at the Kling wagon

Explain?

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:52 pm

In post 1833, Titus wrote:
In post 1810, Heartless wrote:it was a rogue crew ability + known to rogue crew
Then why outright claim it? That can be a tool to force anti-town players to shape up under threat of death. Now that Infinity claimed it, scum do not have to fear it and there will be no speculation about evil third parties.

But how could town use it to threaten anti-town players without...claiming it? Scum probably already knew exactly where the second kill came from.

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:11 pm

VOTE: aj

I don't like his reaction to anti's push and my reasons for townreading him were weak

I still think titus is more likely town than not

Infinity 324 · Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:16 pm

Pine was in the first crew, so I'm pretty sure they figure it out. I didn't want people speculating uselessly.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:24 am

I ISO'd pine albeit lazily

I agree with most of anti's conclusions wrt associations, I put less weight on them than he does since in most cases it's just one post or a handful of posts.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:28 am

@Piper Isnt that only 3 PRs so far? Yours, the thinker's, and molla's (plus the crew)

Doesn't seem like too much to me

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:06 am

In post 1915, Drunken Piper wrote:I also dont like the amount of time Infinity is spending
on BBMolla. Going to bat and defending.

I defend people I think are town

In post 1916, Drunken Piper wrote:I am not saying BBmolla is scum,
but to keep saying he is confirmed town....dont be a bum.

Fair.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:08 am

VOTE: piper for rogue leader

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:27 am

I want mastin to show up

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:53 am

In post 1927, Titus wrote:the guy who wants to lynch you

What?

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:31 am

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:okay, just spent an hour minus a half
reading Infinity's ISO to see if he is aligned on scum's behalf.

I dont really think so, or at least it doesnt make sense.

@titus

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:09 am

In post 1943, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1940, Aj The Epic wrote:He tracked Cakez, who didn't move.
Then what was the night1 result?

The guilty on pine

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:17 am

AJ, I still haven't seen you do a lot of scumhunting today. A lot of your posts are still fluff and defense instead of questioning and analysis, and I was expecting more when you said you weren't as good on d1.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:28 am

The rogue leader distributes them

@TWIE I'm curious what made you react that way

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:29 am

What do you think about my wagon analysis wrt cakez?

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:33 am

In post 1948, Aj The Epic wrote:Can you explain to me how the Rogue group gets roles? Do you all just choose, or does the RL distribute the roles?

Also can you explain the purpose of this question?

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 am

In post 1954, Nero Cain wrote:So we are all going with the no way DP claims a guilty to bus Pine right?

I'm pretty sure. DP has looked pretty town all game anyway.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:54 am

Then couldn't scum have found a different wagon that was more likely to happen?

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:02 am

In post 1951, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1948, Aj The Epic wrote:Can you explain to me how the Rogue group gets roles? Do you all just choose, or does the RL distribute the roles?
Also can you explain the purpose of this question?

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:16 am

In post 1963, Aj The Epic wrote:Just rest assured if I was scum, I wouldn't have to ask.

I'm worried that you asked the question just to say this

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:48 am

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:okay, just spent an hour minus a half
reading Infinity's ISO to see if he is aligned on scum's behalf.

I dont really think so, or at least it doesnt make sense.

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:to see if he is aligned on scum's behalf.

I dont really think so

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:
I dont really think so.

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:
dont

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:04 pm

Again, we know of 3 town power roles for far, plus the crew. I don't see how that's too much.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:20 pm

I mean he had a "special ability" so he was still technically VT but yeah. Anyway a 1-shot doublevoter is hardly a significant town power.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:33 pm

In post 1975, Titus wrote:With you thinking he's scum aligned

In post 1969, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:okay, just spent an hour minus a half
reading Infinity's ISO to see if he is aligned on scum's behalf.

I dont really think so, or at least it doesnt make sense.

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:to see if he is aligned on scum's behalf.

I dont really think so

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:
I dont really think so.

In post 1918, Drunken Piper wrote:
dont

Titus. Read.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:04 pm

"I don't really think inf is scum, or at least it doesn't make sense for him to be."

to fit in with the rhyme.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:27 pm

Yes, mainly cause of the pine interactions. Though it's not that strong of a tr

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:18 pm

I don't see anything scummy from them

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:59 pm

In post 2007, mastina wrote:It's a scum role.

If it's such an obvious scum role, WHY THE FUCK would molla claim it AFTER being vanillaized?

More WIFOM I presume?

ffs

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:04 pm

Why did nacho die after implying he'd defend molla?

Yet more wine?

I think scum would be passed out on the floor by this point

Mastin, I think you need a good shaving with Occam's razor.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:06 pm

In post 2031, mastina wrote:
In post 2015, Infinity 324 wrote:If it's such an obvious scum role, WHY THE FUCK would molla claim it AFTER being vanillaized?
"If it's such an obvious scum ability, why the FUCK would Pine use it?"

...

...Yeah. I rest my case.

Molla literally could've claimed any role he wanted. Any role. That he claimed the particular role he claimed is completely NAI.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:07 pm

I mean, I assume scum got fakeclaims. If you have a particular reason to believe they don't, then you may have a point.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:13 pm

I think mastin may just be having ego issues after successfully catching pine. It's possible she's just scum though.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:16 pm

In post 2033, mastina wrote:Pine would've still killed Nacho no matter what.

Remind me why?

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:20 pm

In post 2044, mastina wrote:The roleclaim itself, sure, not for towncred.

Then why'd he do it lol

He could've claimed fucking 6-shot desperado 3-shot weak rolecop if he wanted to.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:25 pm

In post 2052, mastina wrote:And you can't exactly lie about your powers for risk of those powers actually being in the game in the hands of an actual town player, now, can you?

Fakeclaims. They probably exist.

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:48 pm

In post 2077, mastina wrote:
In post 2059, Infinity 324 wrote:I mean, I assume scum got fakeclaims.
Yes. And presumably, they are fakeclaims of their real fucking role.

You don't get mods who make a scum roleblocker and give them a fakeclaim of vigilante.
(Okay. Maybe you DO, but those mods are absolutely shitty mods.)

You get mods who make a scum roleblocker and give them a fakeclaim of either roleblocker or jailkeeper or some variant role thereof.

Not that hard.

Is this really a thing? I haven't looked at a ton of scum fakeclaims in themes/been scum in themes but how can you be so confident fire wouldn't just...save certain town roles for scum fakeclaims and not give them to town?

(Actually, I do remember seeing a couple games which did things like that)

Infinity 324 · Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:53 pm

In post 2081, mastina wrote:A moderator will NOT give a scum a fakeclaim they cannot provide evidence of. Would you give scum whose power is roleblocker, say, a fakeclaim of 2-shot vigilante?

No, but like

How about BP

or doc

or cop

or hider

There's so many town roles which scum can plausibly claim without needing any special info. If fire just didn't give those specific roles to town, you can make plausible fakeclaims that don't have o be scum's real role.

Plus, VT!molla would still know he was vanillaized due to the special power so that's a plausible fakeclaim as well.

There's no reason to believe scum!molla was forced to claim his real role.

Infinity 324 · Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:19 am

In post 2084, ɀefiend wrote:Infinity, do you feel that Titus' game-long push on you is a non-issue?

It's an annoying thing for sure, but it's not really alignment indicative imo.

Infinity 324 · Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:21 am

Mastin, are you sure we can't just lynch this guy instead? That post was a bunch of empty analysis and busy questions