All right, I hate to return to this, the scene of my previous crime, but I just can’t help it. And here’s why. The “null-tell” meta post Mookeh makes about Mills isn’t the only thing Mookeh did to Mills. So is this:
I’m speaking here specifically of the “seemed so innocent” bit. I got a full attack based on this from Soupfly in my one and only newbie game (Soupfly was ic). Now this is a common sense thing to say, but it was directed at Mills, who was also on the receiving end of the already discussed meta from Mookeh where he pointed out that something Mills had said was the same as something Mookeh had said in another game where he was scum. But…Mookeh wrote:Not saying that Mills is scum because of that - like I said, it's a non-tell. I'm just getting the impression that some people might get carried away a bit and I'm emphasizing to keep your eye on everyone just now. Last time I was a Townie and we disregarded someone because he seemed so innocent, he turned out to be Scum. Open 45 if you want a bit more meta.
In the game Mookeh cited he was going after a player (Slysly) who had his vote on someone and was unwilling to change it. In this game Mills was going after a player for a stated refusal to engage in any sort of scum hunting, who had in fact suggested that there was no content in the game to that point to even look at. That it was one cop criticizing the other makes this sort of ironic, but it still isn’t a proper fit. And in fact the player Mookeh was going after (Slysly) was even engaged in scumhunting, to the best of his abilities, and there was an element of OMGUS in Mookeh’s attack on him in that game. It was at the very best an extremely reaching comparison.
And in the same post where Mookeh makes this misleading meta statement he also includes this, also directed at Mills:
Once again a small thing, but it plays into a general thrust made by Mookeh on Mills for false and slippery reasons. In much the same way Mookeh’s being “wary of whoever criticizes” the “initial baiting phase” could have also applied to, say, Ythill, who hates those first random votes. But it was directed in response to Mills.Mookeh wrote:This is the way we play it over here as well (not sure if you were referring to previous experiences on different sites). I never consider the initial baiting phase a scumtell - in fact, I consider it legitimate scumhunting and am wary of whoever criticizes it.
There is this, about Jennar:
Which serves to lightly excuse Jennar for his scummy play. And the bit of suspicion at the end only really seems to provide cover for Mookeh in the eventuality of Jennar’s lynch. Mookeh never posts more on this topic, though he did post a bit after this.Mookeh wrote:Small point on the only other player I know from a previous game: Jennar is playing exceedingly scummy here. Unfortunately, he was also playing scummily in Open 45 - and he turned out to be FBI. He was forced to claim D1 because of this. So he's a wild card. Yet there's something about him that seems off to me in this game: can't place my finger on what it is yet. Will post more on this later on.
By the way, Ythill, the third example you raise about the town/town/Mookeh pattern is the most curious, because at the point it was made there was no way to fairly consider Mookeh’s content as equal to Klebian’s or Hypatia’s. There is also Jennar’s initial random vote on Mookeh to factor in, and the oddly defensive way Jennar responded to Vollkan making a seemingly harmless mistake about Jennar not unvoting Spurgistan before he voted Mookeh (in point of fact Jennar did unvote the random vote on Mookeh before voting Spurgistan). Now this is only a little odd considering the way Jennar also went after Vollkan for not completing his pbpa on everyone in one post after saying he was going to do it in parts.
RogueBen enters:
I don’t dislike his first recap post. It is only the question section where I see problems. Oddly enough it is not so much with the questions with which he directed everyone to me. In fact, I was one of pretty much everyone’s top two (at least) at the time. And the questions posed seem to be pretty consistently about which of that person’s top two suspects they suspected the most. They are curious, in retrospect, only insofar as they do not exhibit any interest in finding out anything about these three players other than who they would most like to lynch.
The questions posed to me, Hypatia and killa seven, on the other hand, seem much odder. I’d already made it pretty clear why Hypatia’s claim bothered me, the question to Hypatia does not cleanly relate to anything Rogueben posted about her in his earlier analysis, and the question to killa seven is so specific while relating in no way to anything I had seen even hinted at in anything killa seven had posted.
That last is perhaps the most interesting of the three. Because Rogueben raised the issue of buddying in his analysis of Ythill, then asked someone who has now turned out to be scum for his thoughts on the topic, though there is no evidence that this player had even considered it on his own.
This below is a curious bit, though it seems just as likely to be inaccurate as scummy:
This was in response to this, from me:RogueBen wrote:This relies on two assumptions, both of which Justin made in the above quote:
1. Justin is scum.
2. Hypatia's claim is true.
Now since I was saying that if I was scum I would want Hypatia alive the next day, and since if I was scum I would know her claim was true (or at least that she was town, and in the normal course of events one would be willing to accept that a town Hypatia would not falsely claim gunsmith), this is not really two assumptions but one. And it was not an assumption but a hypothetical, which I later fleshed out. I mean, I wouldn’t have to assume I was scum. If I was I would know it. And since I was attacking Hypatia, I’m still not sure what the point is, but since it prompted Rogueben to ask for a claim it must have been significant to him. This is a kind of scum hunting I’ve already seen plenty though, (he said “if” he was scum so he must be scum) and as much from town as scum.Justin Playfair wrote:There is no logic at all in me attacking Hypatia after her claim if I’m scum. If anything she would be of more value alive.
The four person scum team talk seems particularly odd to me, however, even without bringing into the mix the inaccurate claim of having been in one before. Because why on earth would Hypatia-scum have chosen to falsely clear me, of all people? It makes sense for her to pretend an investigation of me that ends with me having a gun. I would, I imagine, have been pretty easy to lynch, and then, with a four person scum team, the game would be won. She might have even pretended to investigate Klebian, because some stupid jackass said he ought to be investigated. And it still would have been pretty easy to lynch me. But clearing me left us with two folks considerably less suspicious than I would have been. Why not clear VollkanII? Why not clear Rogueben? Is it a possible scum tactic? Sure, I guess, but it seems the most complicated one possible to get to the scum-desired conclusion of winning the game.
So here are some questions:
Was there nothing in the play of VollkanII, Klebian or Ythill about which you could have asked them? Was there anything beyond the obvious (who was most likely to be lynched) that you were hoping to discover by asking them which of two players they found most suspicious?
Why did you turn specifically to killa seven for your question about Ythill and buddying?
What was so significant about the line you quoted from my day two post pointing out why as scum I wouldn’t have gone after Hypatia to make that the point at which you believed a claim was needed?
What scum purpose would be served by a scum buddy group of Hypatia and Ythill choosing me, who would have probably been the easiest to lynch person remaining in town, as not having a gun, which could not have been more easily served by saying I had a gun or simply leaving me dangling?
Thank you for your answers. Spurgistan/VollkanII will be next.
Votecount up to Post 650
Rogueben (1) - vollkan II
Not Voting (4) - Hypatia, Justin Playfair, Rogueben, Ythill
3 to lynch.
