Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[RH9]

Could we have a modifier created that removes all modifiers/PRs from a player at X-Day?

For example, a Bulletproof that loses its Bulletproof status at Day 4?

This sounds interesting.

[Random Nurse]

Could we have a modifier created that removes all modifiers/PRs from a player at X-Day?

For example, a Bulletproof that loses its Bulletproof status at Day 4?

This sounds interesting.

Let's say I want a powerful PR at start of game, but I don't want that to affect late game, so I give it a time-limit, turning it into a VT on, say, Day 3. This would curb a LOT of things and help with fine-tuning balance.

Personally I think there aren't enough negative-utility or power-limiting modifiers in Mafia.

[Datisi]

"night 1, 2" is much simpler than a deactivation mechanic, and it's already normal.

[TemporalLich]

Could we have a modifier created that removes all modifiers/PRs from a player at X-Day?

For example, a Bulletproof that loses its Bulletproof status at Day 4?

I'm thinking this is a version of Night Specific known as

Night 1-3

or

Night 1,2,3

or something similar

If it isn't a version of Night Specific, I'm not aware of the way it is different from Night Specific.

That being said, it might be worth keywording that variant of Night Specific under the name of

Time-Limited (Night 3)

? idk what else to call it

[DkKoba]

RN I think you may be happier doing what Flavor Leaf did with Booneytoons and make your own "spicy Normal" variant with your own ruleset thats run in the theme queue. that way A) we can see how it plays out and B) you can run the games you want to

some of what you suggest would never be accepted into normalcy and it'd be better to find realistic solutions to what you'd like at this point.

The "make a PR stop working at X point" is definitely already legal, we can create language that makes it more compressed like "N1-N3", but changing the role itself is probably unfeasible as say a rolecop investigated said role on day 1 and then a vanilla cop investigated on night 4. the results would be contradictory in a pretty eh way.

[Skygazer]

honestly i think that might be a good point from random nurse... we have novice, even night, odd night already, so it might be cleaner wrt role names to have another modifier?

although tbh any phase-based modifier is considered normal (i've seen prime-night used in a normal game a while back), so in my personal opinion i would have nothing against something like "less than night x" modifiers or something like that if it makes the role name look more aesthetically pleasing

[Skygazer]

actually night 1-3 might be the cleanest way tbh

[TemporalLich]

as for the forced Vanillaization variant - I'd only want that Normal if Vanillaizer is Normal, and Vanillaizer's main point against being Normal is that it arbitrarily changes roles.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, there was a “prime-night” role once so there some latitude in role naming is there
Also I tried claiming one-shot-miller once (as scum obv) and iirc was told post-game/in the dead thread it was very abNormal for reasons that also applying to any form of Vanillaization

[Random Nurse]

Could we have a modifier created that removes all modifiers/PRs from a player at X-Day?

For example, a Bulletproof that loses its Bulletproof status at Day 4?

I'm thinking this is a version of Night Specific known as

Night 1-3

or

Night 1,2,3

or something similar

If it isn't a version of Night Specific, I'm not aware of the way it is different from Night Specific.

That being said, it might be worth keywording that variant of Night Specific under the name of

Time-Limited (Night 3)

? idk what else to call it

Time-limited would be perfect.

[TemporalLich]

fibonacci night (night 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21... ) may also be possible unless night 1 being listed twice causes problems

yeah time-limited sounds good but the name of the modifier would be something like time-limited (night 2) or time-limited (night 3) which is more words than night 1-2 and night 1-3

[Gamma Emerald]

Would Fibonacci-night have 2 uses night 1?

[camelCasedSnivy]

fibonacci night (night 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21... ) may also be possible unless night 1 being listed twice causes problems

yeah time-limited sounds good but the name of the modifier would be something like time-limited (night 2) or time-limited (night 3) which is more words than night 1-2 and night 1-3

lmao that reminds me

[TemporalLich]

Yeah, there was a “prime-night” role once so there some latitude in role naming is there
Also I tried claiming one-shot-miller once (as scum obv) and iirc was told post-game/in the dead thread it was very abNormal for reasons that also applying to any form of Vanillaization

The only Vanillaization I think could ever be Normal is the one that informs players of being vanillaized and appears in the flip as "town role turned vanilla townie".

Even then, I think Vanillaizer's abNormalcy is fundamental - Vanillaizer changes roles arbitrarily.

Would Fibonacci-night have 2 uses night 1?

I am not sure if Double would ever become Normal, but that is a very clever idea for Fibonacci-Night in a theme game (for theme games, it might also be worth adding the ability to act in pregame (night 0)).

[camelCasedSnivy]

honestly might be good idea for an infinite set of night numbers to be restricted to a monotonically increasing sequence without any repeats from the OEIS for Normal games tbh

[Random Nurse]

Something as simple as a Time-limited modifier is what Mafia needs. No, don't try to go about it a different way, just add in the "Time-limited" modifier as another Normal option.

[DragonEater70]

RN I think you may be happier doing what Flavor Leaf did with Booneytoons and make your own "spicy Normal" variant with your own ruleset thats run in the theme queue. that way A) we can see how it plays out and B) you can run the games you want to

some of what you suggest would never be accepted into normalcy and it'd be better to find realistic solutions to what you'd like at this point.

The "make a PR stop working at X point" is definitely already legal, we can create language that makes it more compressed like "N1-N3", but changing the role itself is probably unfeasible as say a rolecop investigated said role on day 1 and then a vanilla cop investigated on night 4. the results would be contradictory in a pretty eh way.

Nth

[Skygazer]

What exactly makes it non-Normal?

I feel like most of my suggestions get shot down with little rationale behind it. What kind of bounds should I work within when trying to think up new Normal roles/modifiers?

I just want to add to this: I believe most of the normal roles are considered normal because they were used a lot in themes to the point where they became commonplace (and don't have anything too funky going on). The normal queue is supposed to be representative of typical games where a player can kind of have set expectations that nothing too wild will happen. I think this idea that normals should be "typical" is becoming even more important now that the Newbie Queue has closed and Newbies are being directed to play normals and approved opens.

[T3]

Could Double be a Normal modifier? A Double Cop is basically the same as a Multitasking “Cop Cop” and I see some interesting uses for it.

[Random Nurse]

Expanding on what T3 said, is it possible to make a Modifier that lets a PR target target more than one player at a time?

I want a Fruit Vendor that can target 3 players and give them each random fruit at night. Don't judge me.

OR, a PR that can Follow Player A and Motion Detect Player B.

[biancospino]

Expanding on what T3 said, is it possible to make a Modifier that lets a PR target target more than one player at a time?

I want a Fruit Vendor that can target 3 players and give them each random fruit at night. Don't judge me.

OR, a PR that can Follow Player A and Motion Detect Player B.

Can already do that I think:
multitasking FV FV FV
multitasking Follower MD
(but the fruits can't be random, randomness isn't normal)

Unless you want to impose that A and B

must

be different; or unless you want to force the PR to use all parts of the role, which however you can mostly emulate by adding a bunch of compulsive modifiers

[Random Nurse]

I feel a new modifier is merited because otherwise the title gets too wordy.

[TemporalLich]

Perhaps Split might be the modifier you're looking for?

[Random Nurse]

Perhaps Split might be the modifier you're looking for?

I think so.

You can use two actions at Night but target different players, so a Split Doctor/Voyeur would protect Player A and Voyeur Player B the same Night.

Also, is there a more succinct way to make a Fruit Vendor that can give TWO different players a random fruit at night?

[Random Nurse]

Could that "Time-Limited" modifier potentially be named "Temporary" instead?

And then maybe there could be variations of it, like one that turns the player Vanilla, OR the player keeps the role name but still loses all active/passive powers.