In post 308, Knightmare491 wrote:Don't you love it when people accuse you of doing something and then they do the same thing.
@votato
In post 252, Knightmare491 wrote:I have already done that,(he quickhammered!) why are you so obsessed with my reasoning to vote Looker,
why aren't you asking Umlaut who's literally done the same thing.
Why the double standards?
In post 353, Knightmare491 wrote:Cakes doesn't have much in his iso, he suspected Planes.
Among the group of players due to join date, I'd say that Umalaut would have the most experience with cakes as a player and potentially saw him as a threat(?) or maybe he thought he thought cakes would be able to read him more accurately due to having played with him before.
"Don't be afraid of losing people. Be afraid of losing yourself by trying to please everyone."
"If you're bored contemplate the fact that the collective reads of n players in a n-player game of Mafia define a set of vectors in an n-space, and useful game information can be extracted from this."
~Rectiplanes
No, in retrospect, Cakez was a good NK for anyone. Looker was practically guaranteed to be mislynched, you and I are fairly new, Hoctac was trolling, HEM was dead. It was either going to be Cakez or Lucky under those circumstances and Cakez had far more PR equity.
Maybe.
What about the balance of this game, considering 2 masons and 2 goons in an open setup is balanced, I'd call this scum sided(?)
2 informed townies who cannot talk to each other?
That's not really Datisi's fault. Thanks for hosting, I think you hoped for a better game. Shame we couldn't provide it. Just another boring scum win.
"Don't be afraid of losing people. Be afraid of losing yourself by trying to please everyone."
"If you're bored contemplate the fact that the collective reads of n players in a n-player game of Mafia define a set of vectors in an n-space, and useful game information can be extracted from this."
~Rectiplanes
im pretty sure they did have a PT. we chose cakez because we were hoping recti vs lucky drama would play out more on day 2. i think it was a mistake to claim masons that early.
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
Thank you everyone for playing, I hope you had at least some fun this game. As usual, a huge thank you to my backup GeorgeBailey for helping out behind the scenes.
All the PTs are now public, except for the Mafia PT, which will be public in (expired on 2020-05-26 07:45:16), or sooner if they tell me if they want to redact anything.
In post 752, Knightmare491 wrote:Maybe.
What about the balance of this game, considering 2 masons and 2 goons in an open setup is balanced, I'd call this scum sided(?)
2 informed townies who cannot talk to each other?
That's not really Datisi's fault. Thanks for hosting, I think you hoped for a better game. Shame we couldn't provide it. Just another boring scum win.
As I am the designer of this game, any balance issue is exactly my fault. My idea was to start from the 2 Masons v 2 Goons setup, strip the Masons of the ability to coordinate, give the Mafia a hint about them, and to then give the Town a little bit extra in the form of a Loud Visitor. Which y'all lynched Day 1.
Jokes aside, my goal (other than for my players to have fun) is to improve as a Moderator, so I'm more than willing to listen to critique, be it about the setup or my modding practices.
The thread is now unlocked for post-game discussion.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
Well played, Umlaut and votato! votato has some kind of radiant unicorn/donkey/horse aura which made him impossible to lynch over Looker, and we of course know all about my old friend Umlaut being a scum God.
Biggest of props to Datisi and GeorgeBailey for modding. The butterflies were therapeutic.
Hoctac, I don't think I'm quite the master of scumplay I was in my Club Penguin days but it's nice that you remember.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
In post 739, Rectiplanes wrote:Yes, Looker trashed two days for town. Votato was more likely to be scum than Lucky, but to be perfectly honest, Lucky's attitude annoyed me to the point where, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and if I'm right, I'm right, but either way maybe he'll tone down the smug/jerk tendencies in the future.
GG to all except Looker. Loads of fun at first, though.
Thanks Datisi. I think we all had fun and the reasons fun was at times diminished were not your fault. I think it's hard to judge the set up's balance based on this game: you didn't give town extra power in anticipation of looker. Thanks everyone for playing, and thanks to everyone involved in setup and review! Thanks again in particular to datisi.
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
votato calling me bad or implying that I'm bad numerous times in the mafia PT is the most ironic thing in this universe.
"Don't be afraid of losing people. Be afraid of losing yourself by trying to please everyone."
"If you're bored contemplate the fact that the collective reads of n players in a n-player game of Mafia define a set of vectors in an n-space, and useful game information can be extracted from this."
~Rectiplanes
"It is not our ignorance that will kill us, but our arrogance"
"I expect that 90% of what you say to me is one form of trickery or another" - a friend irl
As for balance, if 7-2 masons vs goons is balanced, I don't see how (1) taking away the communication power of masons and replacing it with misinformation (the backup parts of their role), while (2) informing the mafia of best friends existing (I think it's fair to assume based on 2 goons and votato's informed note that the mafia can reasonably deduce the existence of best friends), is supposed to retain balance. The town was weakened twice and the mafia was strengthened once. At that point the setup should be pretty clearly in favor of mafia. I'm not sure how town loud visitor actually helps the town?
Both Backups already knew they were pseudo-Masons. Both them being Masons AND Cop+Doctor existing (AND them inheriting those roles once the actual Cop/Doc die) would never ever be balanced in a 9p, it should've been obvious that neither a Cop nor a Doc exist. Masons's roles were never supposed to be misinformation, it was a way for me to include Best Friends since Best Friends as a role aren't Normal yet.
Loud Visitor is basically a stronger version of a Fruit Vendor. It does nothing, it can prove its existence, and force scum in a 1v1 should they decide to claim a low-utility PR and call it scum, but it cannot prove its alignment.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
Who said anything about a Roleblocker? I'm saying Masons + Cop + Doc in a 9p can never exist in a balanced game, let alone Masons also being Backups.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
I'm not sure if it should be assumed that players interpret the backup components of the roles the way you intended them to be interpreted. I think Recti's reading of the situation illustrates that. I agree that it's reasonable to assume that the cop + doc did not exist. I was the one who called out the best friends and fake back-ups after all. I do think though that the nature of the roles introduce additional levels of uncertainty or avenues by which town may be led astray.
I see now, doing more research, how the Loud Visitor has value in that it can't multitask in a normal game. Is multitasking allowed in normal games? If so, then I don't see why there can't be a mafia loud visitor?
Does the existence of a town loud visitor outweigh the loss of a mason PT?
I'm assuming my players will at least wiki the role they are and read that being a Backup for a {role} doesn't mean that {role} exists.
Multitaksing is allowed if explicitly said. This game didn't have Multitasking by default.
Does it outweigh the loss of a Mason PT? I don't know. The reviewers said it's fine. I think it's fine. Maybe I am biased towards slightly scumsided games.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
My idea was to start from the 2 Masons v 2 Goons setup, strip the Masons of the ability to coordinate, give the Mafia a hint about them, and to then give the Town a little bit extra in the form of a Loud Visitor. Which y'all lynched Day 1.
