Shell Game (Day 3)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yoink

[morph the cat]

1

Lack of methodological approach.

This is again what drew my attention to you super early in the game, where you appeared to miss the context of pooky's readlist.

I think the way I look at Pooky's entrances are just really different from yours. And I was annoyed that he was once again starting the game assuming we're scum or at least appeared to. Hence my snippiness there.

It resurfaced with your Sunflower vote in 2099, where:

(1) you used sunflower's comment on hoods being swapped around against him, despite several other people having voiced the same theory, and him not being the the first one to say it. Even in the post you quoted, fire said that he "still" thinks that hood swapping makes sense, indicating that there was a prior discussion about the topic, but you did not follow up on that.

I have to deal with my memory atm, and I guess so does everyone else. BUT, it doesn't matter to my Sunflower read that other players said something similar. It's how sunflower's statement came off to me in the context of how I'd read everything he'd posted to that point.

(2) you missed an entire page of people stating that Bingle's claim looked like a joke, and you simply took it at face value. Like, in order for you to make the claim in 2099, it would necessitate you having missed every single one of these posts?

Spoiler:

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

VOTE: Marcistar

U just said u can't vote!

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait, hold on, this is actually a thing?

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Bingle, you're the main character

I thought Bingle was joking.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

I think bingle has never told a joke in mafia game ever.

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

I didn't miss it. I just don't agree that it's totally a joke. I have thoughts about what/how he claimed, and I'll save them for when/if they become relevant.

2

Your interaction with me over my reads

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

You feeling like you need to talk to cabd, before you could talk to me about my reads seems very out of character for how I think of town!ffery.

I was really wanting a sync then for a number of reasons, but I was willing to go ahead anyway and left that choice to you -- whether you wanted our coordinated thoughts or just mine.

If I recall correctly I went ahead and responded to your reads before Cabd and I had a chance to discuss stuff today. That's because I don't like to leave stuff hanging for long.

Like, our game experience, once you decided that I was town, we have literally started our own in thread neighborhood to work through our thoughts, and that came across as you being hesitant to just chat with me on my throughts despite having me as one of your strongest town reads.

I had a lot to catch up with in thread. I really needed to do that before working through thoughts with you or anyone else. I woudn't have wanted to catch up with Cabd before I'd read through everything since ~9:30 PM my time last night.

And once you did respond to them with 2084, is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences. You just kinda *pointed* at places where we differed.

I was more interested in understanding your thoughts and seeing where we differed than I was in convincing you I was right.

3

Our conversation about time stamps

I feel like my posts about your history of timestamps resulted in you posting on the back foot. Like you did not know where it was going, and that worried you.

Not so much the back foot as just, "hmm. yeah I do tend to get into timestamps when someone is slow to reply to something that should be easy for town to just spit out". And then I thought about the game where I really pissed a player off looking at how quickly they'd processed the game on replacing in. especially as someone who replaced in shortly after he did!

It actually gave me the opposite vibes of our interaction where I original town read you, because it felt almost like you were worried that it was leading to a read shift from me. It seemed like you wanted to enagage with me to keep a tabs on it, but didn't know the right steps to take because it was an unexpected conversation. And you basically came out and said that it was distracting to you

it actually did feel a little like a read shift after I thought about it a bit. And that did concern me because you're one of the stakes in the ground this game, and if you're misreading me then I need to think about what that does to my trust of your reads.

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

^^ Hence that comment.

Since the rest of this is about Cabd posts, I won't get into them unless you have something specific about them you want my thoughts on.

Spoiler:

4

Minor ping

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

This post felt off.

It did not feel like it was engaging in a way to substantiate a new point, but just to egg on my thoughts. Strengthen my read. But still let the point be originating from me.

5

Cabd's recent interjections

Spoiler: relevant cabd posts

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I know that cabd knows that you should not step in the way of a line of questioning, but he did it anyways. And the way that he did it does feel kinda bad faith as dann said. Or as I said

this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

That series of posts does set cabd up to either:

If Fireisredsir does not make a case, say "see, I told you he wouldn't do it," or
If fireisredsir does make a case say "He had to put it out there because of my posts saying that its a scum claim not to"
[/quote]

eeeeh that was fun to reply and format.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: morph

I reserve the right to feel differently in the morning.

[morph the cat]

sigh

That stake's somewhere in midair in tornado country.

[Firebringer]

i feel even better about dann now

[Firebringer]

i spent a half hour trying to figure out how to make two data sets reconcile without actually doing reconilation.
I mean, the easiest thing to do would be to do actual comparisons of data and analyze difference. But its 45000 lines. I am off by 200 from one data set to other for a "completeness check". Problem is when I tried to deeper digging it looks like theres false positives between them so the gap might be large.

I guess ill just call an engineer tomorrow to ask him to help me audit this shit.

[Brian Skies]

I also think it was suspect that Brian Skies didn't react to the cakez thing at all. I think he might've been the only player around the time to post but not comment on it, but instead voted firebringer.

The whole thing about timestamps and whatnot has never been something that's been in my repertoire, so I don't know why anyone would be expecting a reaction from me.

As far as I'm concerned, we're lucky to get any Cakez at all considering he should still be on V/LA.

[experience]

tbh i'm kinda liking luke rn.

[Dunnstral]

1

Lack of methodological approach.

This is again what drew my attention to you super early in the game, where you appeared to miss the context of pooky's readlist.

It resurfaced with your Sunflower vote in 2099, where:

(1) you used sunflower's comment on hoods being swapped around against him, despite several other people having voiced the same theory, and him not being the the first one to say it. Even in the post you quoted, fire said that he "still" thinks that hood swapping makes sense, indicating that there was a prior discussion about the topic, but you did not follow up on that.

(2) you missed an entire page of people stating that Bingle's claim looked like a joke, and you simply took it at face value. Like, in order for you to make the claim in 2099, it would necessitate you having missed every single one of these posts?

Spoiler:

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

VOTE: Marcistar

U just said u can't vote!

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait, hold on, this is actually a thing?

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Bingle, you're the main character

I thought Bingle was joking.

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

Wait how do you know there are hoods plural?

p-edit: oh, maybe

i thought bingle was very definitely joking

:blossom:

I think bingle has never told a joke in mafia game ever.

p-edit: oh, maybe

I was not sure what to think about the claim, but yeah him voting 2 posts later made me assume that the claim was a joke.

]

2

Your interaction with me over my reads

I don't agree on a couple of your reads, which should be obvious. Those are the ones I'm mulling. Do you need me to prioritize getting back to you on it? I was going to wait until we have a chance to sync on new data first.

You feeling like you need to talk to cabd, before you could talk to me about my reads seems very out of character for how I think of town!ffery.

Like, our game experience, once you decided that I was town, we have literally started our own in thread neighborhood to work through our thoughts, and that came across as you being hesitant to just chat with me on my throughts despite having me as one of your strongest town reads.

And once you did respond to them with 2084, is felt like there was a lack of bite? Like, it did not feel like you were actually trying to challenge me on the things that you did not agree with me on, to work through the differences. You just kinda *pointed* at places where we differed.

3

Our conversation about time stamps

I feel like my posts about your history of timestamps resulted in you posting on the back foot. Like you did not know where it was going, and that worried you.

It actually gave me the opposite vibes of our interaction where I original town read you, because it felt almost like you were worried that it was leading to a read shift from me. It seemed like you wanted to enagage with me to keep a tabs on it, but didn't know the right steps to take because it was an unexpected conversation. And you basically came out and said that it was distracting to you

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

4

Minor ping

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

This post felt off.

It did not feel like it was engaging in a way to substantiate a new point, but just to egg on my thoughts. Strengthen my read. But still let the point be originating from me.

5

Cabd's recent interjections

Spoiler: relevant cabd posts

Null is always where scum puts morph when we are approaching UTR status.

Calling us scum puts a bunch of heat on from the rest of the folks town reading us and makes them effort a case.

Calling us town means admitting that we have legitimate concerns and having to more directly address and tango.

But calling our well over there hundred posts "null" means having to do neither of those things until forced from a different impetus and allows status quo riding along.

Sunflower won't case me but if they are town and genuinely scum reading me they think it's perfectly fine to let scum me have thread control for two whole game days. Lol nope.

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

I mean if you're town and I'm scum it's called playing to your win condition.

You're once again more worried about the consequences and fallout of pushing me than you are actually wanting to protect the town from a scary deepwolf.

And I don't think you're a coward as town. So I'm left with the alternative. That you ARE playing to win con it's just not the one I have.

I know that cabd knows that you should not step in the way of a line of questioning, but he did it anyways. And the way that he did it does feel kinda bad faith as dann said. Or as I said

this would look a lot like you were trying to get ahead of anything sunflower might have to say, both to demoralize him and to discredit anything he did decide to put out.

That series of posts does set cabd up to either:

If Fireisredsir does not make a case, say "see, I told you he wouldn't do it," or
If fireisredsir does make a case say "He had to put it out there because of my posts saying that its a scum claim not to"

Wow. This post is well thought out, organized and put together well, and makes a salient point that I wouldn't have otherwise caught on to. It's too bad it's a scum post.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

That was a joke (the second part), I think this level of effort makes Luke look like town

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Luke I still think my cat is town but it's too late in the evening for me to properly read your post and then go back over the context to make sure I understand it but I promise you I will do it at some point when I have time.

[Hermit Crab]

morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Firebringer
Hermit Crab (anonymous hydra)
Bingle
Lukewarm
Cat Scratch Fever
Oblivion
PookyTheMagicalBear

Why are Firebringer and Bingle so high?

Same reason why I locked morph as town at page 7.

-Herr Mitt

[Shello and Goodbye]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

I'm gonna be honest i think that sort of reference to tenet is enuf to figure out it's a cabal person (esp. as cakez modded it), and 1987 makes sense in the context of tenet, i don't think the 'timegap' is such a big deal

[Shello and Goodbye]

^
~ skitter

[Shello and Goodbye]

Firebagel, I was actually confusing your wagon with Firebringer's. I'm townreading two players on him in the latest VC.

VC 1.7

Firebringer 5 (Dannflor, Shello, Penguin, Sunflower, CSF)
STD 3 (Hermit, Pooky, Brian Skies)
Dannflor 3 (Firebagel, Firebringer, STD)
marcistar 2 (ActionDan, Bingle)
Firebagel 2 (Dunnstral, Lukewarm)
Sunflower 2 (Klick, Spiffeh)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)

Not voting (Oblivion, SirCakez, marcistar, morph)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to fire a player into the sun.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

This is ffery?

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think if you put a gun to my head I’d feel pretty confident saying

Brian/Cakez/Gypyx/(sunflower/klick)/super secret pocket read

But that could just be copium.

Eh i don't think it's that simple

[Shello and Goodbye]

Of the people who have voted me if i wanted to start questioning digging into it would be skitter/ydra hydra. Thats as much as i can give at this point

Oh hi

I actually kind of like 2209

~ skitter

[Shello and Goodbye]

skitter reaction to my wagon gaining traction was the scummiest part for me. That plus ydra vote on me.

I do think it's kinda weird that this wagon took off kind of easily tbh, you're at what, like 9? 8? I don't know if scum gets run up that easily on basically 'well he doesn't *feel* like himself', esp. in a game this big

[Shello and Goodbye]

Why is Dannflor so high for you? That is someone I'm devoted to focusing on in my reread
I thought you were scum reading Pooky, what changed your mind?
I was with you on Shello and Goodbye

but I thought skitter's posts were incredibly Town,

what makes you scum lean them?

Oh? In what way?

[Shello and Goodbye]

i don't see why that would bother u.

u have seen my scum game. I have no issues generating content as scum.
Ive pocketed u like twice as scum before.

you being able to make content as a wolf doesnt make you not making content inherently towny
even when you arent doing a lot as town and being sillier and more fun i feel like theres a bit more .. idk heart usually to it that sounds very lame like im in captain planet but its true

- ydra

im confused are u saying u were nullreading me or scum leaning me for not making content. I am not saying u should townread me for doing nothing.

For me it was somewhat a scumread but i think i feel better abt it now
Wanna talk to ydra but will prob vote elsewhere soon

[Shello and Goodbye]

Shello and Goodbye who do you think are the scum on the FB wagon if you're doubting your scum read there?

Gonna find the vc and come back to it, don't actually know who's on it

[Shello and Goodbye]

What is you reasoning behind cabd!scum?

not really interested in pursuing this atm, would be unproductive. ask me if i feel the same on like d3

Hmmmm

[Shello and Goodbye]

(a townie actually scum reading me is shouting that shit from the rooftops and urging the thread to stop following me blindly damn the personal consequences.)

From prior experience, yes

[Shello and Goodbye]

Dann is town, luke is town
I'm a little sus of csf

Not really sure i get the sunflower thing tbh

I don't think i really know how to read the morph hydra honestly but they don't feel as manipulative as i think they would be as scum (?) i don't really think i can townbin them but i don't think i scumread them either

[Shello and Goodbye]

i spent a half hour trying to figure out how to make two data sets reconcile without actually doing reconilation.
I mean, the easiest thing to do would be to do actual comparisons of data and analyze difference. But its 45000 lines. I am off by 200 from one data set to other for a "completeness check". Problem is when I tried to deeper digging it looks like theres false positives between them so the gap might be large.

I guess ill just call an engineer tomorrow to ask him to help me audit this shit.

>.>
What format is it in?