Open 96 -- Carbon-14 (Game over) before 703

[popsofctown]

EBWOP: "to acknowledge there's only a 3ish% chance they are scum"

[-TinVision-]

Second Vote Count of Day 1

StrangerCoug (2) -- Crazy, popsofctown
Natirasha (1) -- Natirasha
Kublai Khan (1) -- StrangerCoug

Not voting (4) -- Kublai Khan, orolan, xtoxm

[-TinVision-]

This game has been deadlined. If a lynch is not made by noon EST on November 21st, the player with the most votes will be lynched and we will move to Night 1. If there is a tie, there will be no lynch.

Prods have been issued as appropriate.

[Xtoxm]

Mandatory post for being prodded.

[popsofctown]

Let's get at the spirit of the rule instead of the letter Xtoxm. You haven't made a meaningful post this game. Are you lurking? Are you scum? Do you have somewhere you want to put suspicion or vote?

[Kublai Khan]

Let's get at the spirit of the rule instead of the letter Xtoxm. You haven't made a meaningful post this game. Are you lurking? Are you scum? Do you have somewhere you want to put suspicion or vote?

Heh. The only person here that I have played with and know his meta is Xtoxm. And in the game I played with him he lurked so much he had to be proded 2-3 times and was threatened with losing his IC status. He was scum in that game.

I'm thinking that we should make an effort to not forget that Xtoxm is playing and put him on the hotseat every once in a while.

I have a strategy, and it involves hunting scum.

Random voting has to end sometime, and I say it's perfectly acceptable to make two cases so soon. We know there are two mafia, and even though the chances of me being right about you and Natirasha are very low, that doesn't deprive me the right to go after you both. I think you're jumping to conclusions as to my wanting the game to end as early as you think I do.

I remember somebody defending Natirasha as someone who always self-votes in the random voting stage,

but I'm not 100% sure who exactly it was and I'm too lazy to go back and check.

I know that different people has different playing styles and all.. But what the hell kind of strategy is that? You've pounced on the tiniest of scraps of "evidence" and you're refusing to keep track of who says what?

You're not letting people make mistakes. It's too aggressive. It just reeks of... trying too hard.

[popsofctown]

He's in the hotseat with me now, he's made no meaningful posts by page 3 and to me "mandatory post to answer prod" is active lurking. Maybe he sincerely lacks time to post more than that, but would he /in the game if he wasn't going to have even 10 minutes at some point in the next week to make a meaningful post?

I can't really FoS or vote him yet, i don't know what's going on with him and that seems unfair, since there's a totally legit explanation for his actions. I'm very concerned though.

StrangerCoug needs to get in here and defend himself. He's definitely suspicious enough for a deadline lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

I have a strategy, and it involves hunting scum.

Random voting has to end sometime, and I say it's perfectly acceptable to make two cases so soon. We know there are two mafia, and even though the chances of me being right about you and Natirasha are very low, that doesn't deprive me the right to go after you both. I think you're jumping to conclusions as to my wanting the game to end as early as you think I do.

I remember somebody defending Natirasha as someone who always self-votes in the random voting stage,

but I'm not 100% sure who exactly it was and I'm too lazy to go back and check.

I know that different people has different playing styles and all.. But what the hell kind of strategy is that? You've pounced on the tiniest of scraps of "evidence" and you're refusing to keep track of who says what?

You're not letting people make mistakes. It's too aggressive. It just reeks of... trying too hard.

You asked me whether I had a strategy or was simply in a hurry; as you can see, I answered.

Being too lazy to do something and refusing to do something are not the same thing. Being too lazy to do something means something like "Yeah, I know I should do it, but I can't bother myself with it. Whatever." Refusing to do something means "I'd rather die than do it", and I'd rather

NOT

die than go back and look for who brought up Natirasha's meta.

I am generally very aggressive and have played that way as town and scum. You're accusing me of "trying too hard" reminds me of the Too Townie fallacy, but I can't get at what's bugging me about it other than that and it may be the wrong term.

[popsofctown]

You just said a second ago that you don't care about meta. Now you are defending yourself with your own meta. ????!?!!?!!!!

[ortolan]

First of all; I just got prodded so I'm obliged to post something of content.

Don't give us this newbie card crap.

Huh?

When you attacked Crazy for making a semi-random vote, he responded by asking why votes have to be either completely random or completely serious. You answered by saying you're new, which 1.) is scummy and 2.) I see as BS anyway since your account is three months old.

I don't see how claiming to be new is inherently scummy and the alternative explanation offered; that he simply wasn't aware of anyone in the game's metas also seems quite plausible.

And also, although I guess it's understandable (if dumb), that you FoS for self-voting, having had the same done to you in another game, it seems odd that you say you don't give a damn about others metas then attempt to invoke your own meta to defend yourself, as popsofctown pointed out.

Thus I'm going to

FoS: StrangerCoug

I'll be the first to admit the case against you isn't particularly strong, but in the absence of a better suspect and as I am obliged to post after being prodded I will go with you for the time being.

[Crazy]

The person who mentioned Nat always self-votes, I think it was me.

To be honest, I wasn't actually looking for an answer from KK about why he asked the question. *shrug* That's just how I talk sometimes, using questions and such. I have some weird opinions about mafia, and how I deal with the RVS is one of them.

SC's aggression is not reason to vote for him. Spreading suspicion around is what we're

supposed

to do, after all. His original case against KK; however, is scummy.

It sums up to...

1) Using the newbie card in a quote that was taken mainly out of context.

Because I'm new here and I don't know you.

Does it really bug you that much that someone you've never met or played with is asking you to clarify your reason for voting?

If you want the random segment to end and scum-hunting to begin, then eventually some semi-serious questions have to start being asked.

The bolded is all SC quoted. The rest of the post makes it clear that he was just talking about not knowing me, not being a newbie to mafia or anything.

2) That comment about Stoofer, which is not scummy in any way you look at it.
2)

[popsofctown]

SC's aggression is not reason to vote for him. Spreading suspicion around is what we're

supposed

to do, after all. His original case against KK; however, is scummy.

Let's get some semantics down, i think we are arguing about whether the Ferrari is "fast" or "speedy".

Kublai Khan said that he's being too aggressive in reference to SC pouncing on Kublai Khan. You agree that the case against Kublai Khan is not strong and is scummy. KK said too aggressive and meant, "pouncing on evidence that isn't really evidence". You think SC is suspicious because he is "pouncing on evidence that isn't really evidence." You two agree.


SC is sort of talking past the tough accusation again, that his suspicions on KK are unfounded. Instead, he grabbed the word aggression and defended his "right" to have an aggressive playstyle, which he can get us to agree to, i think we all agree an aggressive playstyle is not scummy.

I'm still pretty that he defended himself with his meta after telling everyone that he didn't give a **** about people's meta and refusing to retract any suspicion on Natirasha in light of the fact he self-votes

every game

...... and now maybe we see why he does, don't we?

[popsofctown]

the last "he" being Natirasha

[StrangerCoug]

The reason I don't give a damn about meta is because too often it's used to try to determine alignment. If you want to use meta to get a gauge how someone plays in general (as in independent of alignment), fine.

[popsofctown]

Natirasha, in general, self-votes at the beginning of every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.
StrangerCoug, in general, is aggressive every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.


DO YOU SEE YOUR DOUBLE STANDARD YET?

[Kublai Khan]

I can't really FoS or vote {Xtoxm} yet, i don't know what's going on with him and that seems unfair, since there's a totally legit explanation for his actions. I'm very concerned though.

I'll throw a vote on him then. An "influx of work" could just be a lie to cover his lurking. He's made 3 posts (no meaningful content) in 8 days. If he honestly is so busy with work that he can't play the game, then he should have asked to be replaced. Since he didn't ask to be replaced, it means he has the time to play and he's just choosing to remain out of the spotlight and in the shadows.

vote: Xtoxm

[StrangerCoug]

Natirasha, in general, self-votes at the beginning of every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.
StrangerCoug, in general, is aggressive every game. He does that all the time. Therefore it's not scummy.


DO YOU SEE YOUR DOUBLE STANDARD YET?

I was unaware of Natirasha's self-voting meta at the time of the FoS, and because of the fact that...you know...and that my self-voting in another game was a big deal there, I FoS'd him.

I can't really FoS or vote {Xtoxm} yet, i don't know what's going on with him and that seems unfair, since there's a totally legit explanation for his actions. I'm very concerned though.

I'll throw a vote on him then. An "influx of work" could just be a lie to cover his lurking. He's made 3 posts (no meaningful content) in 8 days. If he honestly is so busy with work that he can't play the game, then he should have asked to be replaced. Since he didn't ask to be replaced, it means he has the time to play and he's just choosing to remain out of the spotlight and in the shadows.

vote: Xtoxm

OK, I know what I said, but have you checked Xtoxm's other games to verify that he's lurking? If he's active and contributing in his other current games while posting absolutely nothing of value here, then yes, your vote is legitimate. If this is a problem in multiple games, then I would not question his being so tied up with work if I were you.

To give an extreme example of what could happen, my Internet got cut off in December 2007 and I wasn't able to get it back until early the following March, so I was forced to post from a library in the meantime. It was before I signed up for this site, but shortly after I had started playing Mafia online.

So basically, don't make assumptions.

[Kublai Khan]

OK, I know what I said, but have you checked Xtoxm's other games to verify that he's lurking? If he's active and contributing in his other current games while posting absolutely nothing of value here, then yes, your vote is legitimate. If this is a problem in multiple games, then I would not question his being so tied up with work if I were you.

Uh... I know you refuse to be motivated to read old info as a meta, but you only had to scroll up to post 55 (11 posts ago! same page!). The highlights are: I've played with him before, he lurked a lot then, he was an effective scum due to lurking.

Since you want me to do more work... According to his profile, he posts as average of 15.13 posts a day.
11/11 - 7 posts on games in this site (including 1 this game)
11/10 - 19 posts
11/09 - 4 posts
11/08 - 3 posts
11/07 - 10 posts
11/06 - 10 posts
etc..

Xtoxm has plenty of time to play this game, but he's not. He's actively lurking. That is a very scummy thing to do.

So basically, don't make assumptions.

Lacking any solid facts, assumptions are all the uninformed majority have to go on.

[StrangerCoug]

Point ceded.

FoS: Xtoxm.

[Xtoxm]

19 posts on the 10th..? Huh...

Well, actually I have been quite busy lately, i'll have you know.

Given I got a prod on page 3, I thought just what I said would be fine.

[Xtoxm]

How about you take into account how many active games I have, and what I said in those games, too? If someone made exactly the same post across 20 games, what conlusion would you draw? I'm sure it's different from what your current idea is. Just saying you need to look closer than that to draw reliable meta.

[popsofctown]

Again, why'd you take this game if you can't play it? I don't think you're inconvenienced, I think not talking is your strategy.

Although SC has said it's very unlikely to catch both scum on day 1, I'm inclined to think Xtoxm and SC are a scum pair. At the time Xtoxm made "mandatory prod post", most people were putting pressure on SC. He could read the thread and say what he thinks on SC very quickly, but he didn't. I think he was trying to avoid commentation on SC, so he neither has to bus his teammate to the gallows nor say he doesn't have suspicions about SC, which we would look back upon harshly if SC flipped scum.

In support of this theory, look how SC defended Xtoxm in post 66. He asks if KK has checked Xtoxm's post history, whichout even bothering to click twice and do some himself. He even went at length. He looks like he's more interesteed in defending Xtoxm than actually ascertaining whether Xtoxm needs defending.

The fact he ceded the point is irrelevant (buddy nor not), he was faced with facts by KK that required a fold either way.

[Xtoxm]

Good game.

[ortolan]

Good game? Does that mean you're admitting to being a scum pair?

[popsofctown]

That's the way it sounded to me... that would be extremely unsportsmanlike.
So, wow, we win?