Codenames (Game 67 in progress)
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HEART is a no-brainer; cardio pretty much means HEART as a prefix (cardiology).
TRAIN is definitely arguable, as a verb - cardio exercise could be part of a training regimen.
Cardio helps extend LIFE.
A DRILL instructor could instruct recruits to do cardio.
Nothing else really comes to mind?Mish-Mash Janitor
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I like Train the best of the three not-Heart guesses.
I figured Drill was more of a stretch than Life, although it could just be that Life and Heart are intertwined enough in general that it's hard to clue for one without the other?Mish-Mash Janitor
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I wouldn't go so far as to call LIFE a second order clue (where you need HEART to get there at all - those sorts of connections I try to avoid whenever possible), but "extending LIFE" is admittedly on the vague side of connections.
Agreed that TRAIN should be our next guess.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Hoo boy.
Ties and PANTS are both part of formal outfits.
A STRING could be tied.
Ties and PINS are both ornamentation. (Lapel pins, specifically.)
He used the ambiguous form instead of a specific form (necktie, bowtie), which makes me think the ambiguity is intentional because STRING is one of the two.Mish-Mash Janitor
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NUTSTATEPINICESOCKWASHINGTONBARKBUTTONSEALFRANCEEAGLEPANTSDRILLSTRINGLIFEGROUNDTRACKTHIEFTRAINPITCHHORSETOKYOCONDUCTORHEARTPLASTIC
Blue CluesRed CluesAstroturf - 5 Cardio - 3 Polybags - 3 Tie - 2 Natto - 2 Voice - 2
Team Spy Master Members BLUE TEAMSirius9121 Save The Dragons, StrangerCoug, Not_Mafia RED TEAMCharles510 dsjstr, The Bulge, Farren
Think that's right?Mish-Mash Janitor
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We're missing three words; opponents missing two. I think we have to go for broke this round.
Guessing that STRING was one of the TIE words, so we presumably have one TIE word and two VOICE words left.
EAGLEs, SEALs, and HORSEs all are at least capable of making vocal sounds - but I don't see any way to distinguish between them, so I'd steer clear of any of these.
Conductors have voices; train conductors would use those voices.
BARK is a sound that could be made by a voice. Or a voice could be described as BARKing.
That makes me think of BARKing mad, which points to NUT - a NUTjob would also have a voice and use it. But I think NUT also has high Blue team value (Natto and Nuts are both foods), and if we guess one of their words, our defeat goes from probable to certain.
Leaning towards BARK / CONDUCTOR / PIN (going back to TIE, and I still don't see anything better for TIE) at the moment.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Hm. Yeah, depends on how big of a production is made out of it, I suppose. Like, if the logo for the show was a giant button, or if the button takes up half the podium, or something like that.
Also don't know if Charles is familiar with the show, or would expect us to be familiar with it.
I'd think CONDUCTOR is better than BUTTON for sure. Not sure about BARK; that one's a shakier connection to start with, no matter how we approach it.Mish-Mash Janitor
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We should discuss things and come to a consensus before making any guesses, unless deadline gets close. (We have 48 hours; there may be flexibility, but I wouldn't count on that flexibility being there.)
The "3" part of tris's clue means specifically that we're looking for three different words with a connection of some sort to "Animal". Codemasters cannot use the number to signify *anything* else about the clue - it always means "Look for this many answers, and no more." (There are two exceptions - 0 clues and Unlimited clues; I'll explain those if they come up.)
I think DINOSAUR is a good match - dinosaurs are animals. CATs and MOLEs are also animals. I don't see anything else on the grid that can be described as an animal, and simple connections are usually the best ones to go with.
My recommendation is that we guess in the order CAT > MOLE > DINOSAUR, assuming all three of us agree that those are good words to guess.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Code I can see. Why Giant?
Screen could be good, although I'd think Code + screen would be more like Programming, 2 ...
Stadiums have numbers prominently posted (scoreboards) ...
Courts deal with numbers (assessing fines) ...
Plus we have two Animal clues still floating around. Dinosaur's almost certainly one of them. What else?Mish-Mash Janitor
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Wait. BUCK. A male deer. That's another animal. Puts it in the strong and simple category, which is good as I had at least four other guesses lined up for Animal whose connections were far weaker.
We get three guesses max. My current inclination is to do something like:
DINOSAUR > CODE > BUCK.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Okay. So 2/3 agree Dinosaur first.
Sirius - do you have any issues with guessing Dinosaur first? The way I figure, DINOSAUR is less ambiguous than BUCK for sure (and arguably MOLE as well, now that I think of it) - while it can sometimes refer pejoratively to anything that should be extinct, if I ask someone to define "DINOSAUR" without giving any context, they're probably going to go with the scaly extinct reptile and not the more generic meaning.
After that, we can start hashing out CODE, GIANT, STADIUM, BUCK, and COURT.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Once we've guessed three Animal words, we should stop guessing words based on animal connections.
The "3" of Animals 3 means specifically that tris only intended for us to guess three words off of that clue. Trying to go beyond that number can be dangerous - the odds of hitting incorrect words skyrockets.
CAT was definitely one of the three. I'm 99%+ sure DINOSAUR's another, and hoping that BUCK is the third.
SCALE and FLY are both ones I had pegged as weaker connections (some animals have scales, some animals fly), as well as AFRICA (animals live there) and GRASS (another animal habitat). But I think BUCK beats all them out (as BUCK is an animal).Mish-Mash Janitor
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I really need to brush up on my taxonomy.
The top level of taxonomical classification. The one that divides into things like plant, fungus, bacteria ... I think animal is the top of the line? By that standard, a fly would be an animal. (Insert large amount of uncertainty here.) But then again, by that standard, so are human beings - which puts SOLDIER into play. Arguably GIANT as well.
I wouldn't consider any of them "animals" from a non-scientific point of view.
Problem with BUCK is that we run the risk of the same thing happening as did with MOLE. Moles are definitely animals, but "Mole" also has plenty of other meanings. BUCK falls into the same bucket; it's something that could be missed if reading the grid and thinking "Buck = dollars = money, which has nothing to do with animals."
Thing is, I think there are too many weaker connections to have any meaningful hope of figuring out the right one, if it's a weaker connection that was intended.
If I were going to write off BUCK for the time being, I'd probably be more inclined to skip it in favor of tackling the Numbers clue. I definitely like SCALE better than both GIANT and COURT. Less sure about STADIUM, but I think SCALE is pretty solid regardless? I still like CODE as well.
Assuming Dinosaur's a hit, I'm currently leaning CODE >> BUCK >= SCALE > STADIUM, of which we could only guess two.Mish-Mash Janitor
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How would you prioritize those, strength-wise?
For example, I'm very confident in CODE. Computer code is chock-full of numbers; codes of laws (US Code, etc.) use numbers to distinguish their sections; codes (as in encryption) can use numbers as well. That's three different definitions of CODE that play well with Numbers, which I think makes it a strong connection.
Less confident in BUCK, but confident enough to guess. It's a naturally strong connection, but we did get burned by MOLE last round, which moves it down a couple of notches (as BUCK could have the same issue).
SCALE's about the same as BUCK, but I think BUCK accomplishes more for us if it's right. I could be convinced that SCALE is a better guess than BUCK with a good argument.
STADIUM I'd need an argument for as to why it should be considered over the other three, but it's in the realm of possibility.
Everything else, I think is weak enough that I'd sooner PASS than guess them. STADIUM is very close to that point ... and honestly, with only being able to make two guesses, I'd take it off the list entirely at this point. Possibly considering it again next clue if we haven't wrapped Numbers up by then.Mish-Mash Janitor
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We won't get another clue until our next turn - and our opponents will get another clue first, along with more opportunities to guess.
They need six more words to win, as do we. I think it highly unlikely that they get all six next turn, but getting all six in two turns is at least possible.
But yes, I agree with CODE next. Sirius?Mish-Mash Janitor
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No answer from Sirius - and in my experience, he most likely won't be online again before we hit the 48 hour mark.
I'm going to take this as his being okay with Code.In post 6122, Sirius9121 wrote:code giant?
Code.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Excellent.
Whether right or wrong, our next guess is our last one before the turn passes to our opponents.
IMO, BUCK and SCALE are our two best choices here.
BUCK has a strong connection to Animal; SCALE has a weak connection to Animal (some animals have scales) and a strong connection to Numbers (numbers are an integral part of measurement-type scales). I think that's the best argument for SCALE - it actually fits with both guesses, and it has a stronger connection with the most recent clue.
I think SCALE is a more conservative guess, while BUCK is slightly riskier.
We currently need five more hits to win; opponents need six.Mish-Mash Janitor
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I'm going to quote from the physical rulebook here:
This is the only example in the physical rulebook of how to handle a rule violation. As such, I consider this to exemplify the spirit of how to handle any overt rule violation in Codenames - it's up to the Spymasters to keep an eye on the other team. They call out rule violations and assess the penalty; if they don't notice, that's on them. (At least for overt violations - anything that can be clearly seen by the Spymasters.)The Codenames Rules Booklet wrote:"If a spymaster gives an invalid clue, the team's turn ends immediately. As an additional penalty, the other team's spymaster may cover one of [their] words with an agent card before giving the next clue.
"But if no one notices that a clue is invalid, it counts as valid."
If CM1 (acting as a player) had called this out, I would say this rule applies in full - we lose our turn, CM1 gets to reveal a free agent.
If any other Red team member had called this out, I'd still be inclined to say it applies - they're playing the game, they're materially affected by our rule violation, they absolutely are entitled to point out a violation to their Codemaster, which means the first case applies.
So what happens when someone who isn't playing points it out? Do we have a precedent for what happens to the game when someone not in the game participates?Mish-Mash Janitor
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tris might not have gotten around to cluing Mug yet. I can't think of any Animal or Numbers connections, so it's effectively a freebie.
I'd say FLY and SOLDIER for Paratrooper. WAR's decent, but SOLDIER is much better given that tris clued a person, not an object. Paratroopers are strongly linked with flight, and they are soldiers.
If we get both of the Paratrooper clues, that puts us at 7/8. Then comes the big debate - go for the Animal, or pass?Mish-Mash Janitor
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Yeah, that's another possibility - that FLY was indeed the Animal that tris was cluing before.
I'm okay with FLY > SOLDIER, in that order. And we've had enough "maybe-animals" that I'd be very leery of guessing BUCK afterwards. Problem is, if we end on 7/8, our opponents will go for broke - they'll have no choice. CM1 clearly has no qualms about giving infinite clues, and this would be a prime opportunity to give one. What are the odds of them hitting their four remaining agents?Mish-Mash Janitor
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We don't know for sure it's BUCK. We don't even know for sure that there's an Animal clue left.
We've got three words left. Two of them are definitely clued by Paratrooper, 2. The third ... we don't know.
SCALE could have been the third Animal clue - some animals have scales. FLY could have been the third Animal clue - some animals fly, or maybe Sirius was right and tris intended for us to think that flies themselves are animals.
Since we can be 100% confident that there are two Paratrooper words out there to guess right now, we should guess Paratrooper words first. We can't be 100% confident that there's still an Animal word. My confidence level in that right now ... is maybe around 40-50%.Mish-Mash Janitor
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And yes, if FLY and SOLDIER are right, we shouldneverguess WAR. If our remaining words were FLY / SOLDIER / WAR, tris could have just given us Paratrooper 3 instead of Paratrooper 2.
If they were FLY / WAR / ???, something like Bomber, 2.
If they were WAR / SOLDIER / ???, something like Infantry, 2.Mish-Mash Janitor
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There are definitely three Animal words; we can't know for sure if we only got two or if we got all three.In post 6194, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I thought there were 3 altogether and we only got 2? Cat and dinosaur.
Spymasters can legally clue a word multiple times. If they think we're on the wrong track, they *should* clue the word multiple times. It's entirely possible that BUCK fell into the "MOLE" category (reasonable but wrong) and that SCALE or FLY was the other animal word, which tris clued twice.
That would mean one word hasn't been clued at all yet. Which would be bad if it were true, but sometimes coming up with the right word is hard - and the more words you try to link together, the tougher it is.
Problem is, tris's strategy is good in both worlds. If BUCK is correct and we keep talking about it? Better to clue the other words than to re-clue BUCK. If BUCK is wrong and we keep talking about it? Try to clue the other Animal word so we guess it and stop talking about BUCK.
No way to know for sure which world we're in.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Then we agree 100%.In post 6195, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I don’t think war is ever blue.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Farren He/HimBest Overall Mish Mash PlayerHe/Him
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Farren He/HimBest Overall Mish Mash PlayerHe/Him
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All right. So here's where we stand.
We need one more word to win, and we have one more guess this turn.
If we guess the word correctly, we win.
If we pass, our opponents will get one more turn only - there is no way we fail to guess the correct word with another clue.
If we guess the word incorrectly, we either make things easier on our opponents, OR outright lose (if we guess the assassin).
Our opponents need five more words to win. If they get another turn, they will need to guess all five words in that turn in order to win. They have three clues to work with, plus they'll get one more clue from CM1.
I don't want to do a detailed breakdown of their clues and words because that helps them more than it helps us. But I think there's oodles of ambiguity out there on their side.
I don't think one more clue is going to be enough for them to snag all five of their words in a single turn. Especially given high odds it'll be an INFINITE clue. And I am more confident in that than I am about BUCK.
Based on that, I think we should pass. As long as we get one more turn, we'll get one more clue - and since it only has to cover a single word, it's pretty much guaranteed to point right at the word, no matter what that word is.Mish-Mash Janitor
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Buffalo are particularly large for animals ... one might even say GIANT.
Buffalo are known to live in the GRASSlands (among other habitats).
The Buffalo Bills play in a STADIUM.
Given all the talk we'd done about BUCK, I think it would have taken a sledgehammer-level clue to get the Red team to consider it. BUFFALO is great, but I think there are too many ways of interpreting it.
I thought of VENISON as a possibility - that definitely hits BUCK! - but I think people are more likely to hit MINT over KETCHUP.Mish-Mash Janitor
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