Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[TellTaleHeart]

Hi everybody, I was at about page 10 when I left off. Can someone tell me how the UT wagon fell apart?

Bane: UT

[TellTaleHeart]

Probably a lack of the necessary number of dumb people

Hello, I see you've shown up right on cue to call me dumb. Do you have any reads?

[TellTaleHeart]

Actually, I think I'm approaching this the wrong way, as are most other people.

Unbane

I have to think about it.

[TellTaleHeart]

you could check my iso before saying more dumb things?

Checked it. I see four stale reads with weak reasons and no bane vote.

[TellTaleHeart]

bane: Empire

Never mind then.

[TellTaleHeart]

Prob not for all baning but for this bane yes. Revealing sign of the most controversial player forces scums to make a bad nightkill decision if target is town and opens up the target for investigation/vig kill if target is scum.

Unless

scum have a special that allows them to change people's signs (not impossible), I actually don't think this bane is much of a

bane

. Strategically, I'm with you that the bane should be someone to open up to the investigative specials. My first instinct is to go with Gammagooey or vezokpiraka in that case, but I'll take a few hours to mull it over.

[TellTaleHeart]

For an example, gamma is someone who you probably want to lynch not bane.

Really? I think the opposite.

[TellTaleHeart]

Boon: Marquis

I'm not sure if I'll be able to get to doing a proper catchup before this Minor Day ends, but I'm good with leaving that there.

[TellTaleHeart]

It seems that I'm at L-3. o.O

I wonder what for.

[TellTaleHeart]

I have reasons for detecting DV, which I will not reveal unless I'm being seriously considered as a lynch candidate. As I will be confirmed in the next minor day (don't ask), I'm not particularly worried about that.

[TellTaleHeart]

UNVOTE: GuyInFreezer
VOTE: TellTaleHeart

You're really going to make me claim before I post anything?

[TellTaleHeart]

Simply put, DV is on my team's list of expected nightkills, so detecting him is suspicious. It'll depend on TTH's explanation, if he ever you know, posts again. Just from a scan of TTH he wanted to boon vezok but booned Marquis for some reason. I'm not against it. It's just disinteresting.

That must've been some scan, because I never said I wanted to boon vezok. Ever.

[TellTaleHeart]

Vezok:

@All, we should not be outing if we traced or detected as PRs are more likely to detect and VTs are more likely to trace.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH:

I have two questions.

1) Why did you swap with Antihero?
2) How well are you fulfilling that reason for swapping?

Not very well, CDB. Not very well at all.
I'm currently in the process of getting my shit together.

[TellTaleHeart]

Anti fell behind early and since I was posting on the game from the team PT (and considering Anti's upcoming schedule in RL), we figured it would be best if we traded places.

[TellTaleHeart]

Don't hide behind a PR. That shit doesn't cut it.
Also the reason for switching is bullshit. You knew who had time and you still put anti here. He was scun and doesn't like playing scum.

Excuse me, are you privy to what happens in Anti's life?
If not, kindly shut up.

[TellTaleHeart]

but you can't use that to make an argument in the other direction

Where did I use it to make an argument in the other direction?

Also, with a little consulting:
VOTE: Shadoweh

[TellTaleHeart]

i'm not changing my vote no matter how much you pretend your softclaiming is subtle and ~totallyrealtownwithasecret~

I'm really struggling to wrap my head around your logic this post.

Why are you voting me?

[TellTaleHeart]

Shadoweh's reaction to my quick wagon when confronted by Bulba is pinging to me, mastin.
The ambivalence in the read itself and the failure to pursue any other leads while soft supporting the wagon under the banner of "vezok got results" is a position I think scum are more likely to take.

[TellTaleHeart]

Marquis, Anti wants me to let you know that you just chewed up your townread, spat it out, lit it on fire, squeezed a bottle of horseradish on it, pissed on it, then took a big runny shit on it.

I'm not sure if it's in that order or not. Should I ask for clarification?

[TellTaleHeart]

So.

Vezok's town.
Tammy's town.
TTH is probtown.
Shadow I'm not touching.
Bulbazak's getting a pass.
Aronis may be town.
Cheetory is town enough.
Gamma looks fine.
CDB is good enough for now.
Marquis is kinda...ehhhh.
DV is just...ehhhhhhhhhh.
Empire's scum.
Espeonage is scum.


Leaves ActionDan, GIF, Titus, TSO, and UT to sort.

My reads are very close to this. (I'm buddying mastin. **Jazz hands**!)
My "would vote" list would follow: Shadoweh, Espeonage, and UT. Anti thinks Marquis should be on there. I'll

tie down and coerce

ask very sweetly for Anti to look at Empire because I'm struggling with that one, but I can see the stuff coming from Regfan as genuine.

[TellTaleHeart]

Marquis, Anti wants me to let you know that you just chewed up your townread, spat it out, lit it on fire, squeezed a bottle of horseradish on it, pissed on it, then took a big runny shit on it.

I'm not sure if it's in that order or not. Should I ask for clarification?

yeah sure! can you ask him if he still has any of that ass-flavored ice cream floating around in his butt for me too? tia ♡

Relaying, please hold.

[TellTaleHeart]

It seems Anti's out for the moment.
Please enjoy our hold music until he returns.

[TellTaleHeart]

you do realize that scum will have been detecting their likely nightkill targets if they want to not have 3 different actions all spent on killing a single person right?

You do realize that this is a coin flip argument and that there are other reasons to detect, right?

[TellTaleHeart]

You think scum are more likely to agree that my results are scummy and not town thinking we got a scum?

I do and that makes perfect sense.

[TellTaleHeart]

shame well i'm heading off for dinner tonight anyway so we can come back to this shit later. but tell anti to just give me a call if he's ever up for eating out!

Spoiler: I was told to post this

Add Gamma to the people to vote. I think the obliviousness is a put-on. mastin, can you explain that read?

[TellTaleHeart]

Changing:
VOTE: Marquis

[TellTaleHeart]

@Singer,

I started that wagon on TTH with the intent of dragging him back into the game and getting involved. I'm not a big fan of actually lynching him. I'd rather focus on getting stable townreads and lynch whoever isn't actually in said group. Then we can take what we learned. I don't think much would be learned from lynching TTH. Lynching someone people are actually pushing as scum seems to be a better idea.

We also have two lynches today if we fit them both in by the day deadline.

oh

so you're one of those people too

before we potentially get into a discussion i don't want to make last any more than 1 post

please tell me why tth is not someone who "people are actually pushing as scum"

because this is a very clearcut statement and i want to know how far i can try and think about titus things before i get any repeats

also fun fact i just found out it's double day? i get townpoints for that right

No, no townpoints for you. And the bluster doesn't get you any either.

There's two ways you can interpret vezok's results on me. You can either think I'm a town special that wants to use my role on DV or you can think I'm scum gathering intel for a kill / some other nefarious purpose. You have a distinct and very clearly stated "not town" read on DeasVail himself, so the former conclusion should come much more naturally to you. Yet, you don't unvote and you actually go so far as to subtly push me to claim more information. Both these are scum motivated and completely inconsistent with your read on DV.

You are scum, sir.

[TellTaleHeart]

Not falling for the "mafia slump" thing either.

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh, and before you tell me you have a townread on DV:

Nacho thought the interactions between DV and Marquis felt off. But the offness seemed mostly from the Marquis side. Which is a comfort to me because I was on my own in not liking Marquis in Gestalt.

I can kind of see where I was trying too hard for the snark even beyond the !!! but I just really want to be able to both like and townread DV but one of those things makes me super uncomfortable to death as of late!

I just want a super strong townread or two that I can rely on as things inevitably go to shit further down the line and it bothers me that I can't think of anything significant off the top of my head rn other than Tammy and DV who are still scaring the shit out of me, mostly the latter. whether that's an issue of the game so far or on my own personal issues end idk but either way I have a distinct lack of clingable townreads and an excess of incident-driven mild suspicions/scumreads :/

also re: tth, it's not a policy lynch at all. the switch earlier and huge differences in meta expectation from both sides of the team make the wagon ~work~!! oh and the result too mmm

You do not. You're claiming to be

really

conflicted about this read. But somehow, vezok's result is damning for an unstated reason. You also acknowledged yourself and should have a rough idea from how the Spring Dance played the reason we swapped. So you've already lost on all those counts, your argument has no leg to stand on, and the wagon doesn't "~work~" anymore.

[TellTaleHeart]

No it isn't. Do you think tth is a doc? That really wants to protect tammy?

When did Tammy come into the equation here? o_O

Also, answer your own question.

[TellTaleHeart]

(In your head, not out loud. Just so we're clear here.)

[TellTaleHeart]

No, I'm talking just about vezok's result here and the implications of it.

A "I don't know" read on DV doesn't translate into "anyone targeting him is clearly obvscum, let's lynch her." Heck, even a really strong townread doesn't necessarily translate to "anyone targeting him is obvscum" though it gets you closer and makes the jump feasible.

[TellTaleHeart]

I meant dv. I got them confused.

I think you are scum so obviously not doc and even if you were I don't understand why would you protect dv.

[TellTaleHeart]

If that's so, then the vote is equally bullshitty and Marquis should be well aware of that. Citation

[TellTaleHeart]

By the way I have weekend projects to attend to so as a matter of general policy, I will be

V/LA on weekends. hitogoroshi, please take note.

[TellTaleHeart]

Where's vezok whiteknighting?

[TellTaleHeart]

Also, I appreciate your Mean Girls reference.

[TellTaleHeart]

I think it's a perfectly legit question and it doesn't have much to do with roles, outside the minor night trace. Is UT accusing vezok of whiteknighting DV? If so, how?

[TellTaleHeart]

Okie dokie.
Kind of don't need to be told that. >_>

[TellTaleHeart]

Spoiler:

Oh, and before you tell me you have a townread on DV:

Nacho thought the interactions between DV and Marquis felt off. But the offness seemed mostly from the Marquis side. Which is a comfort to me because I was on my own in not liking Marquis in Gestalt.

I can kind of see where I was trying too hard for the snark even beyond the !!! but I just really want to be able to both like and townread DV but one of those things makes me super uncomfortable to death as of late!

I just want a super strong townread or two that I can rely on as things inevitably go to shit further down the line and it bothers me that I can't think of anything significant off the top of my head rn other than Tammy and DV who are still scaring the shit out of me, mostly the latter. whether that's an issue of the game so far or on my own personal issues end idk but either way I have a distinct lack of clingable townreads and an excess of incident-driven mild suspicions/scumreads :/

also re: tth, it's not a policy lynch at all. the switch earlier and huge differences in meta expectation from both sides of the team make the wagon ~work~!! oh and the result too mmm

You do not. You're claiming to be

really

conflicted about this read. But somehow, vezok's result is damning for an unstated reason. You also acknowledged yourself and should have a rough idea from how the Spring Dance played the reason we swapped. So you've already lost on all those counts, your argument has no leg to stand on, and the wagon doesn't "~work~" anymore.

really

This is exactly what I think! Choice 1 is better because no matter what the decision is, all will be the same and scum will either think someone will be protected or not be protected and target with either a massive number of kill targets or just one, with no in-between! So unlike Choice 2, if Choice 1 is selected, it actually has a chance of being useful if the latter scenario occurs (which it probably will with the 16:4 ratio)!

Thank you again DeasVail for using lots of words and phrases that accurately represent my current mindset! I only wish others could be just as on point and best friend forever-ly as you are!

great

Well, I'm very glad to hear all of this, especially the last part!

Attention, everyone! I have a deliberately mild townread on DeasVail! It is only (deliberately) mild because I need to stop being so naive about taking townreads on people I like as a person for granted! Please inform me of this set mildness if I ever seem to have too much faith in him!

selective

In this case I guess I can understand how it reads awkward!? I mean I really really do want to townread DV because he's ringing so many town bells; you could call it gut or something else similar that doesn't sound so unreliable, but then this kind of feels the same as how DV was like at the beginning of Quil's Smalltown game! It's like my hand one second just compulsively puts DV at the top of my town list but then the next second my memory tells it to swat it off down to the middle again! IDK really, it's hard to explain!

quoting

All these people townreading Tammy and DV this game makes me kind of nervous for some reason I don't really get! I mean I understand why it's like that for DV for me but I'm townreading Tammy while simultaneously feeling weird about it!

hm

None of those quotes are townreads. They're all conflicted and you make sure we know that.
What's your point?

[TellTaleHeart]

ok so 1) my dv read is nowhere close to a "distinct and very clearly stated 'not town' read"; i have dv as town, but kind of warily because of how strong my townread on him was when he was sk last game, but i do expect this kind of play from him as town so i'm pretty much holding him up there because there's no point in doubting that this early. and i'm pretty sure i've repeatedly said this at least like 5 different times today and yesterday.

2) even if i

was

scumreading dv i'm not an idiot. unlike ~certain other players~ i'm able to recognize that just because i have a scumread on a player it doesn't mean the rest of the game does/has to agree with me. even if i was scumreading dv i'm not fucking blind, throughout the whole game he's been pretty much a universal townread. you're calling on some sort of nonexistent contradiction to misrep my opinions the other way around and discredit me and it's complete and utter bs

Even if I granted this (and it's bullshit), how does vezok's result mean anything to you?

[TellTaleHeart]

Her trace doesn't jive with her reads either and there's no real indication that she's been discussing this game with her team or that she read the game over night, or I would expect some type of analysis after she had minor night to catch up. I see none. I see chest pumping and that's about it.

The only way the trace makes sense is if you know my role. Everyone who insists on pushing me is forcing me to be in a position where I either have to 1) claim to get everyone off my back or 2) deal with the sniping. I'm choosing 2 because it is the more pro-town option for now and I've still got patience left in the reservoir.

So yeah, might not be slam dunk, but she's suspicious as hell.

Recently, I haven't had as much time to do write up walls like I normally do, but that doesn't mean the thought processes aren't there and that doesn't make my reads any less accurate than they normally are. I assure you, that's not achieved by padded writing anyway.

[TellTaleHeart]

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF]

That's a pretty terrible lynch pool.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm seriously considering just going ahead and full claiming since holding back really isn't really accomplishing anything and I don't really have time to respond to everything people are throwing at me, which boils down to "she isn't posting enough."

[TellTaleHeart]

While TTH really is probably scum and her telling me my lynch pool sucks with no explanation is much appreciated

Because it contains Bulbazak, two lurkers, and a universal question mark. Three out of four of those are targets of convenience

[TellTaleHeart]

My to-do list today contains:
*An examination of Titus
*An examination of Marquis
*An examination of Untrod Tripod
*A consult with Antihero (if possible, *cross fingers*)
*A reads list.

I hope to have this done in a few hours but I'll definitely just post what I have by this afternoon.

[TellTaleHeart]

You will-do list contains:

*nothing
*more nothing
*Maybe I will post a prod dodge or something.

Don't be an ass.

[TellTaleHeart]

This game would be so simple and easy for me if people in the camp pushing me had more scum than the ones defending me, but Anti's telling me that's probably not the case (the opposite, is probably more accurate). Looking back over the game and individual ISOs, I'm getting this sinking feeling he's right.

Marquis is still full of crap, regarding Post 1762. The difference between this and Spring Dance or whatever it was he flaked out of was that he has me bugging him about this game still and I'm still relying on him as a resource even though he's not a primary poster. Also, I never said you were hard scumreading DV, I said you weren't townreading him which is true and you concede is true. (Or, fine, if you want to play around with semantics and say your read is "shakey." The original point of "vezok's result shouldn't have been definitive proof of guilt" still stands and you know it.)

Other than hammer on precisely nothing and visibly getting nowhere with Titus, you've done precisely nothing despite having an impressive 119 post count. Congrats.

Also, Anti said Quickness called and it wants Feu et Vol back. I thought that was funny since you mentioned that game.

[TellTaleHeart]

He just gave the generalization that since scum already know it's a true claim at least some of them are probably going to line up on my side since that bolsters credibility once the shoe drops. (This was prompted by me ranting to him about how scummy people pushing me are.)

[TellTaleHeart]

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF]

That's a pretty terrible lynch pool.

More details on this and updates:
I said it was a terrible lynch pool because it fits the profile for who scum would put in their lynchpool. There's two definite lurkers in there that's a pretty safe bet to push on: ActionDan and Aronis. They've both already demonstrated that they probably won't make much of an effort to defend themselves and no one can really justify a town read on either of them, barring role related information. GiF arguably fits into the "lurker" category too, but only in the sense that he's fairly low profile, not really making waves so far (not necessarily for lack of trying), and he's a question mark on a few other people's lists. ffery comes to mind as one of those people. This is also a pretty safe push. I refer to these as "safe pushes" simply because reasons for voting them aren't really there. Even with scum lurkers, those reasons usually exist and can be articulated, but DV hasn't really made an attempt to convincingly do so. Bulbazak, of course, has to make an appearance since DV was pushing him earlier. Even though the vote on ActionDan hasn't ever progressed past the "vanity" stage, the vote stays there even though a vote on Bulbazak (which is much more substantiated and much less neglected) would have the same impact on the overall vote count. So why is the vote on ActionDan?

tl;dr: On the surface, this lynch pool looks like a plausible team but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny and the vote placement doesn't match real estate allocation in the DV's posts.

[TellTaleHeart]

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, you don't need to claim your sign, just the reason why you would visit DV.

Your team has enough experienced mafia players to figure it out and I'm shocked no one has already.

Regardless, the mod will publicly reveal what it is tomorrow and at that point, everyone will slap themselves because it's something pretty obvious that I believe everyone is over-thinking right now.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH...I can actually understand where he's coming from with that because it's practically the same reason I feel that Bulb is attacking me for wanting you to claim. It's "the right way to react." If I were scum, I wouldn't need the claim to justify killing you.

I actually believe Titus to be the most worrisome of the bunch, though I can't necessarily articulate why.

[TellTaleHeart]

Irony, thy name is vezokpiraka.
I never said ffery is a safe push. I said ffery had GiF as a question mark in her reads.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, you and I need to talk tomorrow.

ETL's saying you're town. Anti says you might be scum. :S

Where do you stand on the premise that scum are pushing me to claim / mislynch?

[TellTaleHeart]

Hello mastin.
Anti's wondering why you're not sheeping the vote he's endorsing if you're townreading this slot so hard.

[TellTaleHeart]

Hello mastin.
Anti's wondering why you're not sheeping the vote he's endorsing if you're townreading this slot so hard.

Mainly because Marquis is a much weaker read and I'm not sure who I want to lynch.

...Okay, I know who I WANT to lynch (singer, DV), but I'm not sure who I want to AGREE to lynching. (Who I bargain with, essentially.)

To be perfectly honest, it's looking like today's heading towards an Esp lynch (not the happiest about that), secondary choices being Dan, Aronis, and

maybe

Marquis. I'll support any of those. I'll try to unify the town in their stronger reads, work together in bringing stuff together where it most matters. But none of them will make me happy. Not Marquis, not Aronis, not Dan, maybe not even Esp.

So you won't play ball with me here? Even if I've got Anti's blessing? I'd kind of like to know why. I'd also kind of like to know why Dan and Aronis show up on your "would lynch" list.

[TellTaleHeart]

DV, it would be great if you could share a few details of that Marquis read now. TIA

[TellTaleHeart]

I'd really like to try to see you back that up.

[TellTaleHeart]

*see you try

Don't judge me.

[TellTaleHeart]

Here's where I am with the reads list.

Town: Cheetory6, Oversoul, Titus (*ETL), T S O, Vezokpiraka
Town(ish): Actiondan, ChannelDelibird, Espeonage, Gammagooey, GuyinFreezer, singersigner

Somewhere in between: Aronis, Bulbazak, Deasvail (*Antihero), Mastin2 (*Antihero and ETL), Shadoweh

Would Vote: Marquis, Untrod Tripod

[TellTaleHeart]

also the whole "i'm not giving a read on marquis right now but i'll just say anti's scumreading him for reasons a town!anti would know are bullshit and a scum!anti would take advantage of so i can leave a marquis option open and then not take as much of the heat for should the lynch somehow miraculously happen"

also it feels like time for an honesty hour so i'm just going to say while my feelings about a tth lynch mellowed a lot more quickly than expected especially bc of tammy bringing up the antispeak back there to look at it again i'm still feeling infinitely more "meh" about actually going through with any other of the major wagons and this feels like the only scumtrail i have that actually has a chance of being right

Are you drunk?

[TellTaleHeart]

Marquis, the read is both of our reads and I've given my side of it without the meta that Antihero is referring to so saying that I'm withholding my own reasons and hiding behind Anti is bullshit.

[TellTaleHeart]

That "are you drunk" is now not sarcastic anymore.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm back from the weekend. I'll catch up tomorrow morning.

[TellTaleHeart]

Did you miss the reads list or what?

[TellTaleHeart]

No, I didn't miss it. I found it somewhat disappointing.

Do you have any particular issues with it or are you going to make me play 20 questions?

[TellTaleHeart]

No, I didn't miss it. I found it somewhat disappointing.

Do you have any particular issues with it or are you going to make me play 20 questions?

lack of data, reasoning, etc.

Also a lack of something that from metaing you I expect to see in your scumhunting.

It's OK, I'm not

that

stupid. You can say "blocks of text."

Do you disagree with any of the reads?

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: mastin2

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: mastin2

Oooooh...

*holds back rant*
We are not lynching Mastina.

Would you care to defend this read, either of you?

Overall, my assessment of mastin's activity so far has been to promote a scum agenda. The "townbloc" that she was sure to hammer on early is nothing short of catastrophically dysfunctional, but that doesn't seem to bother her much. The push on singer's slot has never been

that

great and the TSO vote was completely phoned in and bad. All the while, the reads like Marquis and DV who

I

would have been willing to work with mastin on languished.

[TellTaleHeart]

I love the push on Singer. The only part of the townblock that seems to be dysfunctional is you. Bulba, Mastina and I seem to be working together quite well. You're included because the wagon on you was shit and we all know that.

So that's how we ended up on a TSO lynch?

Give me a break.

[TellTaleHeart]

The only way Mastina could be scum to me is if you made some next level moon logic about Mastina being able to mirror my reads, fake a townblock so I would love her, and somehow fit that to a scum agenda.

As opposed to TSO's vezok read being particularly sheepable because...

[TellTaleHeart]

So Titus, where does your DV read stand?

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: mastin2

talk about your reads plz.

If you don't have anything specific to talk about, I'm going to keep tuning you out.

[TellTaleHeart]

Here's where I am with the reads list.

Town: Cheetory6, Oversoul, Titus (*ETL), T S O, Vezokpiraka
Town(ish): Actiondan, ChannelDelibird, Espeonage, Gammagooey, GuyinFreezer, singersigner

Somewhere in between: Aronis, Bulbazak, Deasvail (*Antihero), Mastin2 (*Antihero and ETL), Shadoweh

Would Vote: Marquis, Untrod Tripod

Here's a more updated version.
Town: Cheetory6, Oversoul, Titus (*ETL), T S O, Vezokpiraka
Town(ish): Actiondan, ChannelDelibird, Espeonage, Gammagooey, GuyinFreezer, singersigner

Somewhere in between: Aronis, Bulbazak, Untrod Tripod, Shadoweh

Would Vote: Marquis, Mastin2 (*Antihero and ETL), Deasvail

I've given reasons for all the "would vote's" at some point: Marquis (Post 1659, among others), mastin (Post 3235), and DeasVail (Post 2489).

UT moved up slightly because intuition tells me the that give-a-fuck-free attitude is more likely to come from town, specifically the way UT was going about it. All the others in the "somewhere in between" are people I'm procrastinating on sorting and don't remember anything specific from.

[TellTaleHeart]

vezok hasn't posted once. >_>

[TellTaleHeart]

@FFery, I'm little reluctant to go lurker lynch again.

You think it would be just a lurker lynch?
Also, DV read please.

[TellTaleHeart]

deas is kind of more thrown in than the rest just because i agree with whoever said his recent reads were kind of just a pile of lurkers+bulba

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: DeasVail

[TellTaleHeart]

I've got Gamma and mastin who would vote him. If I get that I'm already the second largest wagon.

[TellTaleHeart]

Of course! Well, that's assuming mastin will put her money where her mouth is, which she has yet to do. But I'm

sure

that won't be a problem with the super-de-dooper town bloc of power that's totally firing on all cylinders here, right Titus?!

[TellTaleHeart]

Your sarcasm isn't complete without a GIF or picture with an ironic caption, UT.

You're slacking.

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh...

I just always assume you are unless I have reason to believe otherwise.

[TellTaleHeart]

Assumption: Scum cannot scumread other scum.

I think this needs proof, Titus.

[TellTaleHeart]

DV's the popular side of things now?

[TellTaleHeart]

DV is widely not talked about.

[TellTaleHeart]

Before I forget, re: Aronis. Not just the lurking.

A few things that bother me:

*

While he was here copper was relatively silent, which I completely wouldn't expect from the usual town perspective of trying to sort me.

*

The radio silence from elk.

*

By all indications, Aronis had phoned it in and was happy for "any lynch" as per Post 2821. Given this attitude, the resistance to the TSO lynch was a little incongruous given that TSO was only previously mentioned as a vague townread near the beginning of the game. The subsequent white knighting in Post 3033 and Post 3041, and the after-the-fact finger pointing in Post 3276 are all overdone.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: actiondan

Fairly happy with this lynch too. Oh wait, who am I kidding, it's page 113 on D1, I'm happy with any lynch.

VOTE: Aronis

Let's do this.

[TellTaleHeart]

Not sure how that quote ended up there. o.O

[TellTaleHeart]

Also, are you implying Aronis is scum who knew TSO was town and therefore whiteknighted?

That's exactly what I'm implying.

[TellTaleHeart]

We are NOT going to waste our second lynch on another person like TSO. This means that Aronis is off the table for lynch today.
The only people that we should be discussing for lynch are ActionDan, Espeonage, Singersigner, Titus, and Untrod Tripod.

"We're only lynching between these people because

I'm

scumreading them."
Titus, and now you?

Excuse me, this goes out to everyone in this game: Who the fuck do you people think you are?

[TellTaleHeart]

I think pretty much everyone is in need of some form of ego check here.

[TellTaleHeart]

No. We're not lynching Mastina because she's in my townreads. I'm willing to compromise. I'm just not lynching obvious town.

I'm not sure what feather you have up your ass about mastin being "obvtown" but it would be nice to have some sort of substantiation other than "she's town reading me and that makes me feel good."

[TellTaleHeart]

I certainly hope so. I'm in a pretty shitty mood.

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't see anything that's faked at all. Mastina's good scum, but you can't fake my wavelength.

Narrow, self-centered, and superficial

[TellTaleHeart]

speaking of tth, I have reached out to you repeatedly. Please engage me. I've got some questions for you over the last few pages, some of which I've asked more than once.

The only one I see is about Esp and I don't think it's a very promising lead because when I looked over his activity, it wasn't as bad as I remember it being. I could pull individual quotes, but that wouldn't be a very good use of time I don't have anyway.

[TellTaleHeart]

ETL, Anti, and I are going to hammer some stuff out tonight.
UNVOTE: until then. ETL's already giving me a town meta read on Aronis.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: CDB

Yes, I know he was in my "townish" list earlier. I'll hash it out later today because I have to go do something.

[TellTaleHeart]

Nope! Not lynching CDB anymore!

This reaction to an abysmal reads list is nothing short of astonishing.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm pretty torn between not lliking some stuff happening in the game thread right now and not wanting to have more influence on the game than I'm due.

If I had a vote down on CDB I'd be unvoting.

Shutting this down. Right now.

If you're itching to take apart a wagon on someone who's not town-ish at the 11th hour, put it into

words

and quit with this.

1) If you were townreading me earlier, I have no idea how you could reverse so quickly given the above, but I'll wait until you can expand later, I suppose.

Really, in a game where I have three other people's reads to draw on, a stale read on you, and a hard town read on your counter wagon you have "no idea" why I could be voting you?

If you want a void in critical thinking you can look at the series of safe throws that is your reads list. What does Patrick think of that?

[TellTaleHeart]

If I'd meant "I have no idea why you could be voting me", I would have said that. I said "I have no idea how you could reverse your read so quickly". It's not like my reads have come out of nowhere, but your reaction not only to me but to people like singer who expressed approval was utter revulsion. It's the strength of that reaction that I don't buy from someone who previously thought I was town.

I don't know what there's not to buy. I think DV's scum anyway so why would I give a shit if he gives you a pat on the back for the reads list? You're also ratcheting up the strength of the townread I stated earlier on you quite a bit if you're painting it as such a drastic reversal.

Nope! Not lynching CDB anymore!

This reaction to an abysmal reads list is nothing short of astonishing.

I like the reads list you hate.

The scum list consisted of: town (who claimed inevitable mod confirmation no less) and 3 low-risk lurker targets. Add in the fact there's no evidence he read anything in my ISO past the flash wagon at the beginning of the day. What did you like about it?

[TellTaleHeart]

Your scummiest reads are a pile of lurkers and a dude who's claimed to be able to confirm himself tomorrow

Except for the "dude" part, this.

[TellTaleHeart]

VC 87 (Major Day 1, VC 49)

(6)

ChannelDelibird:

Gammagooey, Titus, Shadoweh, Formerfish, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart [L-4]

(Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer)

What is this? This has all my scumreads and some players I don't really like.

Town case for CDB.

Nut up or shut up.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm not even really sure what you mean by that. Like, at all.

Also, Mina signed off on not lynching CDB based on his recent posting, too. I'll have her put together something while I'm at work.

ETL and Antihero signed off on lynching CDB based on his recent posting.
Does that mean I win?

[TellTaleHeart]

I see you already made the choice. :S

The creation-aligned player in question was me and the ability that would've been unlocked was a watch. I knew pre-game that the choice on Minor Day 2 involved the lock on the watch ability. I had assumed the choice would be between me and another town special being unlocked and that's why I said I would be confirmed.

[TellTaleHeart]

Bane: mastin2

[TellTaleHeart]

Espeonage

I am against a TTH lynch because of reasons.

Now that the cat's out of the bag with regards to my role, I'd kind of like to know these reasons now.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yes, she's scum, what about her?

[TellTaleHeart]

Because I can't "lynch" anyone on my own.

If I could, CDB's rotting corpse would be decomposing in the gutter as we speak.

[TellTaleHeart]

Agree that scum was likely involved in that mastin Bane push.

Is there a way to measure that against the known town wagons?

Town Wagons:

TellTaleHeart: Titus, singersigner, Oversoul, Aronis, Formerfish, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ChannelDelibrd
TSO: Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird

mastin Bane wagon:

mastin2: vezokpiraka, TellTaleHeart, singersigner, Untrod Tripod, Aronis, Oversoul, Cheetory, Gammagooey

All Three: singersigner, Cheetory, vezokpiraka
Two out of Three: Gamma, UT, Aronis, Titus, Oversoul, CDB
One out of Three: TTH, Formerfish, mastin, ActionDan, GIF
None: Bulbazak. Deasvail. Espeonage. Shadoweh

There does appear to be quite a bit of overlap there.
*Side Note: Curiously, I think the best chances of finding scum is actually going to be in the above "None" tier. Bulba and Esp showing up there kind of surprised me.*

Just to have the information:

Unflipped Wagons:

Espeonage: ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, Cheetory6, Untrod Tripod, ActionDan, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, Shadoweh
singersigner: Aronis, Gammagooey, Bulbazak, mastin2, Titus
ActionDan: DeasVail, singersigner, T S O, Espeonage, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird, Titus
ChannelDelibird: Gammagooey, Titus, Formerfish, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart, Untrod Tripod, vezokpiraka, ActionDan, Espeonage

Just eyeballing it, it looks like there's also a lot of overlap between the town wagons, the Esp wagon, the CDB wagon, and the ActionDan wagon as well.

Is there anything to all this, or is the overlap in the vote count just an artifact of something I'm not considering? @_@

[TellTaleHeart]

My preliminary conclusions are that Bulba and DV are scum and there's 2 scum in [Gamma, Titus, Cheetory, vezok, Formerfish].

(That really narrows things down. I'm great at this.)

[TellTaleHeart]

That was after just thumbing through hito's ISO not particularly carefully. I don't recall one on Bulba, but I'll look at the one on you.

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh, right.

Titus: Espeonage, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka, Aronis, singersigner
Bulbazak: DeasVail, Gammagooey, Shadoweh, Cheetory6, Titus, vezokpiraka, GuyInFreezer, Aronis, Oversoul, T S O

[TellTaleHeart]

The elusive DV and Shadoweh make appearances but other than that, it's the same people.

And there's vezok riding bitch on two more wagons.

[TellTaleHeart]

Please outline the analogy more. I flunked out of analogy school.

[TellTaleHeart]

So I took a gander at vezok's entrance and explanation on the TSO wagon and this is what I came up with:

vote tso

This wagon feels very strange, but I think scum as at the end of the tunnel.

vezok seems to always come across as quite the contrarian in terms of reads, but somehow his name keeps coming up in the VCA.

[TellTaleHeart]

...and look who's at the tail end.

I kind of want to bane Cheetory.

Bane: Cheetory

[TellTaleHeart]

My plan:
1. Bane Cheetory.
2. Lynch DV.
3. Lynch vezok.

How does that sound?

[TellTaleHeart]

Wtf mastin. Why did you claim because of a roleblock??

Oh the humanity!

Quick, someone get vezok's fainting couch!

Spoiler:

[TellTaleHeart]

Cheetory and Vezok seem pretty town.

Nuh-uh.

See I can play that game too.

I don't think cheetory looks nearly as town as everyone else seems to

I agree with this. Particularly the TSO reads progression and vote. All great Neptune's ocean will not wash this blood clean from his hand, the attempts to paint it as a "pressure" vote after-the-fact notwithstanding.

[TellTaleHeart]

You're an enigma, Gammagooey.

From DoA and this game, you seem like a really smart guy but somehow you went along with the TSO wagon and for the life of me, I can't figure out why you seemed to suspend your cognitive faculties to push that dud of a wagon. What's even

more

confusing is that you were one of the people who wanted to boon TSO earlier and the read took a precipitous fall just on ffery's say-so and something about a readslist from Regfan (????).

[TellTaleHeart]

TSO showing up after a ten day absence with what he did was garbage.

This needs proving.
Are you talking about the Kagami reads list or the nature of the catch up?

[TellTaleHeart]

You make the mistake of thinking I would bullshit about my intentions behind a vote afterwards. If you seriously think I would add reasoning to why I did something, you don't understand how I think when I'm scum.
You really think that this doesn't look like me saying he should respond to things?
I could have just lied and said "oh I was sheeping ffery" but I was honest about why I voted for him in my head and if that gets me extra heat then you can feel bad postgame for not realizing how obvious it should be that I can't fake being this manic as scum.

Don't start this pity-party, self-referencing shit fest with me. It's boring, stupid, time-wasting, and irritating. I could come up with more adjectives, but those four are the first that came to mind.

Obviously, if you know how you play as scum then you're cognizant enough to

avoid

doing those certain things. So when you reference your own meta all you're really doing is posting a paradoxical circle jerk that's of help to precisely fucking no one.

Additionally, I will feel bad for nothing. Good day, sir.

[TellTaleHeart]

ffery I don't really see a big reason to think TSO will flip scum but if you're really confident in it I can hop on anyway. Did go through his iso and I still do like his posting around march 31st but it's not impossible to be coming from scum looking back at it.

gonna do this since his popping in and mentioning regfan's reads while not trying to push AD's lynch or explain why he isn't putting stock into regfan's AD read does seem actually pretty bad.

VOTE: TSO

TSO never referenced regfan's reads. What were you talking about?

[TellTaleHeart]

Thanks for ignoring the part of my response that wasn't just me being dumb.
But you're right about how self-meta is dumb.
I just don't think I could pull off how I'm feeling right now as scum and how it's translating into my posts and I think that knowledge is making me feel like it should be obvious when it's not.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not a touchy-feely person and how you

feel

isn't going to influence my read.

And it's weird that singer isn't in that pile, but hey, I guess I'm lynchable now so it shouldn't be surprising that compromising takes precedence over actual scumreads, right?

Drama queen.

[TellTaleHeart]

He meant kagamis

Alright, let's grant that.
That still leaves "why was it bad?"

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH, can we bane UT, then lynch Vezok or Cheetory. We have to get through the bane to get you your boon.

UT is a scapegoat, I suspect mostly because he's a smart ass.

[TellTaleHeart]

he definitely posted a list of teammates reads and then did literally nothing with them except bitch when people asked him about them and his vote on actiondan.

It's not that surprising he would be slow on recalibrating his own reads after a seven day, or however-many day, absence.

I know hindsight is 20/20 and all, but the case isn't great.

[TellTaleHeart]

I do not have him on the lynch list, Titus.

[TellTaleHeart]

Do you think I would add this part that I quoted into my TSO vote if I didn't want him to respond to things?

Of course. "Flailing" is a very non-descriptive word that doesn't logically lead to a scum read. The nature of the lead-in to the vote also conveniently places responsibility for the lynch on TSO himself (and not on you). If he ended up getting lynched, it was

his

fault because he was

flailing

and afterwards you get to claim that you were completely trying to give him a fair shake. There's possible scum motivation in that it keeps up appearances. And before you go off on me about how you can say that about anything I will submit to you that

it completely worked.

No one faults you for the TSO lynch and a lot of people seem to think you're town.

[TellTaleHeart]

UT hasn't actually tried to find scum this game.

not at all. He would absolutely resort to just murdering generally scummy people at deadline but he hasn't been trying to push anything himself at all, he's been asking me bullshit about whether I'm scum instead of actually trying to read me, and all of his mastin and titus bullshit is completely genuine but posting about player's being shitty and arrogant and insufferable is not something that only comes from town UT.

That's a good point.

[TellTaleHeart]

UT hasn't actually tried to find scum this game.

not at all. He would absolutely resort to just murdering generally scummy people at deadline but he hasn't been trying to push anything himself at all, he's been asking me bullshit about whether I'm scum instead of actually trying to read me, and all of his mastin and titus bullshit is completely genuine but posting about player's being shitty and arrogant and insufferable is not something that only comes from town UT.

That's a good point.

...and if vezok flips scum, his ISO gets even worse but now I'm getting ahead of myself.

[TellTaleHeart]

We could bane Bulbazak again for shits and giggles.

[TellTaleHeart]

mostly because vezok's very likely town

Prove it.

[TellTaleHeart]

Bane: Bulbazak

UT, get me a crappy meme I can put next to that.

[TellTaleHeart]

mostly because vezok's very likely town

Prove it.

read my posts day 1 about him
his fluency of read on me and actually PUSHING to have empire not be baned without reasons instead of the usual "here's reasons why X is town let me say that and not give a shit about it and let it happen" is coming from town and how he responded to people day 1 screams town motivation.

Really, we're reaching all the way back to the fucking Minor Day 1 bane vote?
Your read is so past the expiration date, it has mold growing on it.

[TellTaleHeart]

Exactly. vezok's alignment hasn't changed and therefore his town motivation should be

bleeding

through in his recent stuff too, right?

[TellTaleHeart]

The reasons themselves aren't that great anyway. Making an earnest push away from consensus isn't something particularly difficult to fake as scum (and Empire's slot hasn't flipped yet). "His responses to people" is a pretty vague reason so I really don't know what Gamma is talking about there.

[TellTaleHeart]

I have a hell of a lot more confidence in my town read on him for absolutely genuine town behavior than anyone being town read for WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS at this point in the game. There's so much godamn useless distracting noise.

I agree with the "WORDS" sentiment, but the "genuine town behavior" from vezok is nonexistent.

[TellTaleHeart]

Exactly. vezok's alignment hasn't changed and therefore his town motivation should be

bleeding

through in his recent stuff too, right?

i literally don't understand how you can think this and be railing about the tso lynch.

i cannot give enough of a fuck to go repost all the shit in my iso right now. maybe later but probably not.

vezok hasn't been absent. He's been here this whole time. There's a difference between not being here and nobody giving enough of a shit to read your posts.

[TellTaleHeart]

No worries. I'll do it.

vezok is actually a fairly strong town read compared to most people since he seems really genuine about thinking I'm scum and empire's town but not being able to articulate it

"Seems genuine" is a judgment call that I happen to not agree with.

already voting to boon vezok

and already said that he's a strong townread because his super strong defense of empire without actually being able to explain it (along with his opinion on me being scum earlier) reads as very very genuine

"Genuine" again...

I do

this game is just TEARING ME APART ut

and vezok really is obvtown for how he's playing

mindsets man

Another subjective judgment call.

I kinda doubt that what I say is going to give you given your opinion on it but look at vezok's play especially and ask yourself if it looks like he's been coached to do anything this game. I'll agree that it'll be a lot easier to make more genuine looking reads with the other players on people's teams helping them but all of vezok's posts look like he's just posting his immediate thoughts on the game without any filter on them, which is INCREDIBLY difficult for most people to fake as scum given that they have a completely different mindset focused around avoiding suspicion and finding targets for lynches and nightkills.

This is a subjective judgment call dressed up with more words.

[TellTaleHeart]

This is a pet townread based on intuition.

Rail all you want. You're wasting your breath.

[TellTaleHeart]

Well I don't know Gamma. Who's going to end up being untouchable here?

That's what lies at the heart of the problem. Everyone's got their ego town reads and are intent on blocking anything getting done during the day. Now we're stuck playing this ridiculous game of trying to outguess who's lynch is going to get fist-fucked before it even happens.

What the hell are we doing?

[TellTaleHeart]

Bane: UT

[TellTaleHeart]

Spoiler:

[TellTaleHeart]

@Singer, CDB had a matched sign on Aronis according to his claims and got a no result. Why would baning him be good over the doctor?

To get another result.

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

This boon really isn't that great.

[TellTaleHeart]

This pretty much guarantees an action to go through tonight

unless roleblocked.

That's the catch.

[TellTaleHeart]

This pretty much guarantees an action to go through tonight

unless roleblocked.

That's the catch.

Yes but with CDB it would be confirmed he was roleblocked. A lot more uncertainty exists with Mastin's action.

True.

Boon: CDB

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh wait, CDB said he already knew Aronis' sign though.

[TellTaleHeart]

boon: TTH

any particular reason to not boon the almost-definitely-town?

I don't have an action.

[TellTaleHeart]

I ask because I'm suspicious about there only being one kill last night. Scum probably would have seen me as a high priority night kill during the first minor night, so I would consider it reasonably likely that they would prep detects on me. Obviously however, I would have been a much lower priority nightkill during the major night to the point where scum may even have considered it beneficial to not kill me.

You

are

a high priority kill or you

are not

? You just said both. You're also putting a lot more assumptions into your theory for keeping me in the lynch pool than you're suggesting.

There are other potential explanations for there only being one successful unmake,

Yes, simple and basic mathematics.
The sign mechanic gives a 1/3 chance of guessing the sign correctly and given 3 unmakes, calculating the expected number of kills in any given night yield a value of...

one

.

Now of course there are things like the detect mechanism and protective (or other killstopping) roles that influence the probabilities slightly but the rough estimate should be pretty close to the actual and it was likely by hito's design.

[TellTaleHeart]

Also DV, make no mistake.

I'm getting you lynched today.

[TellTaleHeart]

If anybody traced me last night, you're an asshole.

[TellTaleHeart]

My preliminary conclusions are that Bulba and DV are scum and there's 2 scum in [Gamma, Titus, Cheetory, vezok, Formerfish].

(That really narrows things down. I'm great at this.)

I still think this is valid.

[TellTaleHeart]

*sigh*

Well at least you 'fessed up to it.

Gamma, do you have an updated read on Bulbazak?

[TellTaleHeart]

Trace: Target a player. If they detected and you were not Traced, you will receive the name of the player they detected. Otherwise, you will receive no result.

Bad idea Gamma.

TTH, I was going to follow you but you had to post that shit about Bulba being scum. You thought Mastina was scum, that's not true. You're townreading Singer, which is just wrong IMO.

Sorry Titus, it seems we will not be getting along today.

It's not a bad idea at all because if someone's trace fails with no explanation, we'll know who Victor is. That, of course, relies on Victor going early in the massclaim, but it's a relatively innocuous piece of information to claim that keeps the covers of all the specials while giving the potential to catch scum in a lie.

Also, you don't get to shit on me until either 1) one of your scum reads actually flips scum or 2) I have my gimp suit on.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

[TellTaleHeart]

rereading bulba and marquis is probably something that should happen though.

Yes, please.

Spoiler: Thoughts about Bulba, spoilered so it doesn't bias you in the reread

There are things that bother me here:
*He's a ghost in the vote counts.
*The quote-stripe catchup mode the posts are always in is a pretty easy format for scum to look participative while not actually doing anything, which is actually what make up the bulk of his posts.
*Mollie's contributions are pretty shallow and don't come off as particularly genuine.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH, what happened to UT being lynchbait?

I'm informed he has the same acerbic attitude in every game, which I checked out and see is true.

Also, seriously Cheet? What the hell are you doing?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm informed he has the same acerbic attitude in every game, which I checked out and see is true.

Also, seriously Cheet? What the hell are you doing?

In every game or every scumgame?
And hmm?

Every game. That was mostly the reason I was townreading him.

And

what are you doing? As in, what are you working towards? A DV-lynch? Is that it?

[TellTaleHeart]

Titus are we going to see that Bulbazak town case or what?

[TellTaleHeart]

also @TTH I will probably not get around to rereading bulba for another RL day or two. did manage to not look at your spoiler for when i do get around to it.

Excellent!

In that time I will have completely alienated Titus and pissed off anybody who might otherwise not currently hate me.

[TellTaleHeart]

I cannot even understand his Bulba read. The trace on TTH is pretty scummy. It blocks TTH, obvtown likely to trace, fromgetting a result, even if true. If anything it looks like scum protecting fellow scum to me. How do you get tracing TTH as town?

It's actually not that difficult. If you approach the minor night thinking I could be scum psyching everyone out, of course it would make sense to trace because if I

were

scum then I would probably feel safe enough to detect without any precautions.

Occam's razor cuts both ways here.

[TellTaleHeart]

ActionDan, Antihero said you should stop rubbing your nipples and vote UT.

[TellTaleHeart]

Show us some scum motivation, not just "he's being a meaniehead"

That's some pathetic nonsense, dude

There's scum motivation behind being constantly pissed off at the state of things and people sheeping ffery's reads, which I think is an overstated problem anyway, but then not actually contributing to a change in direction. It's a sentiment that's pretty easy to dress up as "townish." If you're always playing the malcontent, then none of the bad stuff that's happened is your fault. It's all those idiots that just won't listen to you. Except you make sure they don't really have a reason to listen to you because you don't actually say anything about what should happen instead. You're sabotaging yourself and staying on the periphery because otherwise you might actually have to be held accountable for your opinions and where they lead.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm. Getting. To. It. @_@

Now that you understand why I give players the reads I do, now we're going to look at the specific posts from Bulba's ISO that give me similar feelings about him.

You probably could've stopped right there because we've already come to a fundamental disagreement in our systems. I used to look for consistency in opinions and logic systems and all, but I gradually stopped believing in that simply because

scum strive to be as consistent as possible.

It makes sense if you think about it for a minute. Changing your mind when there's not a readily apparent and compelling reason involves drawing a lot of scrutiny and is often taken as a sign of weakness in conviction. It's relatively easy to maintain and it gives people security because they feel less threatened by predictability. Consistency feels good.

But the sense of security it gives is illusory simply because it works so well in advancing the scum win condition.

[TellTaleHeart]

Spoiler: Details

#352 - #357 and the exchange that followed regarding Mastina being town versus Mastina being scum over not posting is a very good position there. He's not whiteknighting Mastina but he's stating things that he believed to explain Town!Mastina. At the time, I disagreed with that read, but he explained it in a logical concise manner. His response to "nail Mastina to the floor" indicates a willingness to change his mind if he was wrong. Such posts indicate a person changing their opinion based on incoming facts rather than sticking to a narrative.

I found the exchange pretty dry and uninformative. Bulba simply stated a pretty easily verified fact, "mastin's not posting anywhere." Willingness to change his mind doesn't really tell me much because that's not a particularly aggressive or risky stance to take. I don't see it as anything scum wouldn't do.

#657, The interaction here with DV feels natural and mirrors my attempts to sync up with my townreads. Neither Bulba nor myself are emotional players, so the fact he's pushing DV to explain his reads in terms he understands is good. A scum player can just dismiss those reads because they lack "evidence" and its what I would expect a logic based scumplayer to do.

I don't think you accurately described the "interaction," and I don't even think it qualifies as an interaction. Nor do I think "interaction" means anything. I think the post actually did contain a hefty amount of dismissiveness.

#927 Bulbazak attempts to dismantle a meta foundation of my read, which is unlikely (but still possible) to come from scum. He didn't deny the facts I was using but provided real life context that I didn't have when saying that I thought even Bulba's meta was consistent with him being town.

As soon as you admit it's possible to come from scum, it's a bad point. Next.

#1207 I like the resistance to group!think, even though I like Marquis (now FormerFish) as town. Forming a group of people who all think each other are town, and eventually agree on a scumread after discussion is one thing. Following group think is a bad idea.

He also expresses the fact that many of his townreads are townreading his scumread, but doesn't actually outright change his read on Vezok. Again, townpoints for the observation but not outright moving of his read.

It. Cuts. Both. Ways.
If you're scum, you already

know

what cases of groupthink are ill-fated. That's not to say that everyone who calls out groupthink is scum. I'm saying it doesn't make you town. Also, conservative play nets no townpoints for me.

1375 looks like genuine frustration over being ignored.

"Genuine emotion is not a towntell."
I don't know how many times Antihero's told me that. Regardless, it happens to be true.

1540 makes sense as Mollie plays in a more frustrating, get under people's skin and see what shakes rather than pure logic. Mollie doing a reaction test through Bulba feels genuine. Mollie's much better at the early game, where there's less to go on. Versus me where I tend to be better at the end. So a reaction test from her makes sense.

I will need to consult with Antihero about this since he knows pirate mollie a

lot

better than I do. I'll get back with you shortly.

[TellTaleHeart]

Why would TTH think DV is a high priority kill given the amount of suspicion DV is under?

I don't get why what I'm saying is so hard to understand. I was a high-priority kill during minor night 1. I wasn't any time after that.

You both seem to be operating under the same faulty assumption. On Minor Night 1, I was targeting someone I thought would be a

delayed

kill since I knew I wouldn't be able to use my watch until Major Night 2 at the earliest (remember the lock?). I thought DV was competent and fairly likely to be town at the time but he was also very low impact and lurky. At that point I was trying to fortune tell and see who would most likely draw a kill one night out.

[TellTaleHeart]

Well, hon, you thought wrong.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm not gunna lie, I'm not going to be willing to avoid your lynch for long.

I'm kind of wondering why you're doing it now.
Why are you doing it now?

[TellTaleHeart]

If it makes you feel any better, UT, I have absolutely no intention of fellating ffery either literally or metaphorically. If that's what's

really

throwing you for a loop here, know that there is a beacon of hope for you.

[TellTaleHeart]

No problem. It's the little things in life that keep you going.

[TellTaleHeart]

I mean, I'd do it to get a flip, but like...Titus...

Titus is likely not going to be lynched today because of the number of people, including me, who think she's town or town enough to be left alone for today.

Beating the "you're scared of specials" and "you're not really pushing me" drums are not likely to change that either.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm confused though, at what you think is the possible upside of trying to get under everyone's skin
Like
There isn't an upside there as scum

Who is this directed at and what are you talking about?
Everyone's already said umpteen times that your temperament isn't alignment dependent and you even said it when I was town reading you a while back for it.

You burned that bridge yourself. Anything else?

[TellTaleHeart]

Can you tell me how THIS is more town than THIS?

You are asking the wrong question.

[TellTaleHeart]

I would also support Bulba and UT counterwagons for the same reason. If TTH is right on Bulba, he should be able to out argue me. If I am right, UT should be lynched.

You realize I'm voting UT, correct?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm still here. Will read sometime today.

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push

Okay.
Tell me what is potentially different between here and with elusive in DoA then? How absolutely confident are you that UT isn't just being a shitter as town?

This feels off that you would ring that bell because this is nothing like elusive from DoA.

[TellTaleHeart]

DV's replace-out reads list was a piece of shit, but no surprises there.

[TellTaleHeart]

DV's replace-out reads list was a piece of shit, but no surprises there.

Would you want to expand on that a bit, or are you cool just making that a standalone statement?

I'm cool just making that standalone statement right now.

[TellTaleHeart]

Well, Gamma's really not going to like my latest not-town read. (Who's username may or may not start with "Over" and end in "soul")
UNVOTE:

[TellTaleHeart]

It's 4:41 where I am. The only thing expanding is my desire to say "fuck it" and go to sleep.

[TellTaleHeart]

Fuck it.

VOTE: Bulbazak

[TellTaleHeart]

This Aronis counter wagon is totally natural looking, very well supported, and not suspicious at all.

Great job, people, keep up the good work.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, I will take it you think the Aronis wagon is people sucking up to me.

No. I just think the Aronis wagon is a shit-filled dud.

Mostly because there's no reason for it other than the fact he doesn't post a lot.

[TellTaleHeart]

What are your thoughts on 4ity's entry?

Sucks. Slot is still scum.

Also, since I'm still in snippy bitch mode:

rereading bulba and marquis is probably something that should happen though.

Yes, please.

Spoiler: Thoughts about Bulba, spoilered so it doesn't bias you in the reread

There are things that bother me here:
*He's a ghost in the vote counts.
*The quote-stripe catchup mode the posts are always in is a pretty easy format for scum to look participative while not actually doing anything, which is actually what make up the bulk of his posts.
*Mollie's contributions are pretty shallow and don't come off as particularly genuine.

[TellTaleHeart]

It's not that he doesn't post very much, it's that when he does post, it's

nothing

. Like, could somebody point me to anything that shows any amount of caring about the town? And then he shows up as soon as we wagon him after five days without saying anything?

Who said this is TSO-wagon 2.0?
Whoever that was hit the nail on the head.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yeah. Let's delay this even more. Bulba will probably lurk for three days and claim something stupid and we will somehow no lynch at both lynches.

This. Can we all please unclench the collective anus and just get on with it?

[TellTaleHeart]

Shadoweh is the lynch I think we should pursue next
Shadoweh has been lurking on the fringes of the game trying to stroke all the right egos and not get noticed.

Yes, yes, and yes.

[TellTaleHeart]

*Expounding on the three items I said yes to.
Yes, Shadoweh has been lurking on the fringes, she occupied one of the spots in the the zero-vote tier.
Yes, Shadoweh has been trying not to get noticed and stroke all the right egos.
Yes, we can think about lynching Shadoweh.

Clarification.

[TellTaleHeart]

Hallelujah! A flip.

And the world didn't even end.

Bulbazak flipping town strengthens my scum read on the DV slot. I

may

be coming around to a singer scum read.

[TellTaleHeart]

@Cheetory, while I find it unlikely, I don't see why all four scum could not be on Bulbs. More than likely though one avoided. Two scum off Bulbs is unlikely to me given the shot case on him.

This argument

completely

ignores the constipated game state.

[TellTaleHeart]

Regfan thinks one of the more universally townread players that people are blanket townreading from the beginning of the game is wrong.

*cough*Oversoul*cough*

[TellTaleHeart]

@Cheetory, while I find it unlikely, I don't see why all four scum could not be on Bulbs. More than likely though one avoided. Two scum off Bulbs is unlikely to me given the shot case on him.

This argument

completely

ignores the constipated game state.

No, it's what accounts for the gamestate. Bulbs would not have been lynched over Aronis if scum had not pushed Bulba.

I

pushed Bulba over Aronis because Aronis is a crappy, easy lynch that's likely a mislynch.

[TellTaleHeart]

If I just shut the fuck up about Aronis and Bulba, I bet you'd have had a lynch wagon in 12 hours.

[TellTaleHeart]

No, you explain. It's your argument.

Which scum sheeped me onto Bulba? Is it: Gamma, UT, Cheetory, CDB? Who?

[TellTaleHeart]

No one seems to have reads that are changing with the gamestate.

Well, mine are.

Most notably, I have growing scumreads on both singer and Oversoul. singer is a hitchhiker on a lot of town wagons and she's tunneling you into the ground when it looks like there's little hope for success there and the push isn't all that great to begin with. Regarding Oversoul, being wrong on a "universal" town read makes sense given the dysfunctional game state and there's also mollie saying her first impression was that Tammy was scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

Not lynching singer, probably ever. Empire looked town, his replace-in is town, singer's engagement is

way

too high for her to be scum. Not doing it. Nope. No siree. No thank you. Nada.

Who are you scum reading?

[TellTaleHeart]

hito, after today I will be V/LA until next Wednesday.